Skaddenfreude: Arent Fox; K&L Gates; Heller Ehrman; Keker & Van Nest; Friday Afternoon Open Thread
As we move into the weekend, we have a few more associate pay raise announcements to share with you.
After the jump, there's confirmed compensation news about Arent Fox, K&L Gates, Heller Ehrman, and Keker & Van Nest.
We've also heard the rumors about Jones Day (Dallas) raising to $150K, from multiple sources. But we haven't seen a memo, and neither of our sources is at the firm itself. So even though it's most likely true, we're going to hold off on calling it until we hear directly from someone at Jones Day in Dallas (or at least see a memo).
ARENT FOX
A tipster brought our attention to the firm's press release:
WASHINGTON—Feb. 6, 2007— Arent Fox LLP – a full-service law firm with offices in Washington, DC, New York City and Los Angeles – announces today that it will raise first-year salaries in Washington and Los Angeles to $145,000. First-year salaries in New York will be raised to $160,000. All increases are retroactive to January 1, 2007.Arent Fox, which recently expanded to the West Coast through its merger with O’Brien Abeles LLP, is implementing the raises to reflect the firm’s commitment to hiring and retaining the best legal talent. “Arent Fox strives to provide legal services that are second to none,” says Marc Fleischaker, chairman. “We believe that attracting and rewarding associates who share both our vision for excellence and commitment to the community will further enhance our value to our clients.”
We admire Fleischaker's game attempt to spin this to clients as anything other than "Your bills are gonna be increasing, because our associates' salaries are going up -- and no way are WE taking a hit on PPP."
K&L GATES
From: Collins, Elwood F.
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 5:59 PM
To: NY ASSOC
Cc: Matlin, Robert S.; Linden, Rebecca B.
Subject: Associate Salaries
Importance: High
Sensitivity: Confidential
Colleagues:
I am pleased to announce that the standard salary range for associates in the New York office will change as of March 1, 2007. For the Class of 2006 and the incoming Class of 2007 the salary will be $160,000. There will be class increases for the Classes of 2005 through 1999. The salaries of those in more senior classes will be separately determined. Each of you will be advised of his or her new salary before the end of the week.
You are our most valuable asset and the future of this law firm. The partners take very seriously the fact that you have reposed your career with us. I hope that you will agree that the bonuses that were paid to you in December and the raises that you are about to receive are a tangible reflection of your value to us and an expression of our commitment to you.
These are exciting times at K&L Gates. We are building an unparalleled platform of enormous breadth and scope that you are an integral part of.
Thank you for your hard work and for your commitment and dedication to the firm.
Woody
HELLER EHRMAN
To: Associates
From: Robert B. Hubbell
David B. Sanders
Date: February 2, 2007
Re: 2007 Associate Compensation
There have been a number of significant developments concerning associate compensation during the past week. We recognize the importance of remaining competitive in the marketplace and maintaining associate compensation at levels that reward you for the value you bring to our clients and your continued commitment to the firm. Being smart as a business is a quality that the firm believes can be demonstrated by attracting and retaining talented professionals.
Accordingly, based on our objectives as a firm and marketplace factors, we have made a series of adjustments to our associate base compensation levels. The charts below reflect the 2007 base salary amounts for associate levels 1 – 7 in our domestic offices. The charts reflect the shift we have seen in both national and New York compensation levels for associates. We continue to monitor the Northwest market for developments.
The changes, which are set forth in the table below, are retroactively effective to January 1, 2007 and will be reflected in your February 16 paycheck. Otherwise, the attached general compensation structure remains the same.
Please contact either of us, your Office Managing Shareholder, Practice Group Leader or your office's Human Resources Manager if you have any questions or concerns.
Thank you.
Attachment
2007 Associate Compensation
National
2007 Basic Bonus
Level 2007
Base
2000 Hrs 2100 Hrs 2200 Hrs 2300 Hrs 2400 Hrs 2007 Enhanced Bonus 2007
Potential Compensation
1 $145,000 $13,000 $5,000 $5,000 $5,000 $7,000 $0 - $15,000 $195,000
2 $155,000 $15,000 $7,000 $7,000 $7,000 $10,000 $0 - $15,000 $216,000
3 $170,000 $15,000 $8,000 $8,000 $8,000 $12,000 $0 - $17,500 $238,500
4 $190,000 $20,000 $9,000 $9,000 $9,000 $14,500 $0 - $20,000 $271,500
5 $210,000 $20,000 $10,000 $10,000 $10,000 $15,500 $0 - $20,000 $295,500
6 $225,000 $25,000 $10,000 $10,000 $10,000 $15,500 $0 - $25,000 $320,500
7 $240,000 $25,000 $10,000 $10,000 $10,000 $15,500 $0 - $25,000 $335,500
New York
2007 Basic Bonus
Level 2007
Base
2000 Hrs 2100 Hrs 2200 Hrs 2300 Hrs 2400 Hrs 2007 Enhanced Bonus 2007
Potential Compensation
1 $160,000 $13,000 $5,000 $5,000 $5,000 $7,000 $0 - $15,000 $210,000
2 $170,000 $14,000 $7,000 $7,000 $7,000 $9,000 $0 - $15,000 $229,000
3 $185,000 $15,000 $8,000 $8,000 $8,000 $12,000 $0 - $15,000 $251,000
4 $210,000 $20,000 $9,000 $9,000 $9,000 $12,000 $0 - $20,000 $289,000
5 $230,000 $20,000 $10,000 $10,000 $10,000 $12,000 $0 - $20,000 $312,000
6 $250,000 $25,000 $10,000 $10,000 $10,000 $12,000 $0 - $25,000 $342,000
7 $265,000 $25,000 $10,000 $10,000 $10,000 $12,000 $0 - $25,000 $357,000
Northwest
2007 Basic Bonus
Level 2007
Base
2000 Hrs 2100 Hrs 2200 Hrs 2300 Hrs 2400 Hrs 2007 Enhanced Bonus 2007
Potential Compensation
1 $120,000 $13,000 $5,000 $5,000 $5,000 $7,000 $0 - $15,000 $170,000
2 $125,000 $15,000 $7,000 $7,000 $7,000 $10,000 $0 - $15,000 $186,000
3 $130,000 $15,000 $8,000 $8,000 $8,000 $12,000 $0 - $17,500 $198,500
4 $140,000 $20,000 $9,000 $9,000 $9,000 $14,500 $0 - $20,000 $221,500
5 $150,000 $20,000 $10,000 $10,000 $10,000 $15,500 $0 - $20,000 $235,500
6 $160,000 $25,000 $10,000 $10,000 $10,000 $15,500 $0 - $25,000 $255,500
7 $170,000 $25,000 $10,000 $10,000 $10,000 $15,500 $0 - $25,000 $265,500
KEKER & VAN NEST
The partners here just announced this morning that the firm will match the Simpson/NYC pay scale for all classes through 2001, with earlier classes to be decided on an individual basis. Raise is retroactive to February 1st. Each associate got a memo hand delivered by the managing partner with his/her new salary.
KVN is a 55 person litigation boutique headed by John Keker, who prosecuted Ollie North and defended Frank Quattrone and Andy Fastow, and Bob Van Nest, who focuses on complex business litigation for clients including Intel and Honda. Happy to provide more info on the firm - a great place to work with none of the big firm bulls**t.
(194) Comments
Survey: Increased Demand for Lawyers at Firms, In-House
By Thomas Adcock
New York Law Journal
February 9, 2007
http://www.law.com/jsp/nylj/PubArticleNY.jsp?hubtype=BackPage&id=1170928967158
Of all attorneys looking to make career moves this year, those in the catbird seat - the ones with multiple offers who can practically name their price - have five-plus years of experience in corporate transactional law or corporate litigation, according to a new report.
And for first-year associates at large Manhattan firms, starting salaries could rise to $190,000 by December, the report predicts.
The forecasts come in the "2007 Salary Guide" from Robert Half Legal, a Menlo Park, Calif.-based recruiter that sees a particularly rosy year for attorneys, paralegals and support staff.
Charles Volkert, executive director of Robert Half, said the demand for lawyers at firms and corporate legal departments would increase this year due to corporate governance requirements, new business initiatives and rising caseloads.
He added that lawyers with backgrounds in compliance and regulatory issues, litigation, intellectual property and real estate are also "particularly well positioned to take advantage of the current job market."
Maura Mann, manager of training and development at Robert Half Legal, predicted the significant rise in first-year pay.
"We anticipate that even beyond the [recent] jump to $165,000 salaries," she said, large firms in New York and a few other cities with especially high costs of living will "continue to pull the trigger" throughout this year, which will see salaries boosted first into the $180,000 range and then to about $190,000 by December.
See charts of projected 2007 salary ranges and project attorney hiring trends.
Up to a point, a hiring partner at a major Manhattan firm confirmed that prediction.
"Maybe not by the end of this year, but the $190,000 mark is close and inevitable," said the partner, who asked not to be identified.
There are "ebbs and flows" in the industry, said Joanne S. Ollman, director of professional resources at Proskauer Rose, "but right now it doesn't seem like there are many ebbs."
Ms. Ollman, too, spoke of increased competition in lateral hiring, which would lead inevitably to increased compensation for both senior and junior associates.
"The lateral market is getting so tight," she said. "Firms would rather hire at the front end and worry about it later at the back end. I'm not sure it works, but that's the strategy."
Drawing from her experience at Proskauer - as well as similar stints at Weil, Gotshal & Manges and Cravath, Swaine & Moore - Ms. Ollman acknowledged, "We're all fighting over the same five laterals who still want to practice law after five years or so."
Other hiring trends noted in the Robert Half survey include:
• Competition for first-years has "intensified" as large and midsize firms "tap an ever-shrinking pool of candidates to bulk up their staff in response to increasing caseloads."
• In-house counsel experienced in regulatory and compliance issues continue to be in demand as a result of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002, passed in response to a wave of corporate scandals.
• Paralegals with three or more years' experience also continue to be in demand at large and midsize firms, and will increasingly assume traditional first-year associate tasks such as trial preparation, research and witness interviews.
Further, according to the Robert Half survey, which questioned 300 attorneys at representative law firms and corporate legal departments:
• Fifty-five percent of firms expect to increase their number of lawyers in 2007, while 41 percent expect lawyer ranks to remain the same.
• The most growth by practice area will be in ethics and corporate governance (25 percent), litigation (23 percent) and intellectual property (19 percent).
• Increased workload is the single biggest challenge for corporate law departments, according to 34 percent of respondents, followed by compliance or regulatory issues (28 percent) and litigation costs (24 percent).
Far less than half the attorneys surveyed - 38 percent - said compensation is the biggest incentive for staying with their firms. Nearly one third of those surveyed - 29 percent - cited professional development opportunities as the most important incentive. Sixteen percent cited flexible work arrangements.
Ms. Mann expects increased interest among experienced attorneys in leaving law firms for in-house counsel positions.
"These are people five or six years out who've had the chance to practice and are thinking several years down the line about ultimate goals - whether they want to be partners," she said. "If not, it's the ideal time to move to the in-house role, which may not be as lucrative as the firms, but where you have more of a work-life balance."
Ms. Ollman said of the wave of lawyers seeking to move in-house, "We're fighting hardest against the banks. There are no more dot-coms, but the banks are certainly picking up."
To stem the tide, Ms. Mann said many large firms are implementing ever more "life development programs," which especially allow women to maintain career continuity.
"Ten years ago if a woman wanted to start her family, she had to leave or go to a smaller firm," said Ms. Mann. "And when she wanted to come back, it was a big hill to climb. Now it's not out of the realm of possibility to have it all. We see more of them tele-commuting. If they're not at work at nine on the dot, it's no longer a big deal. Firms realize they have to make accommodations."
"The partners take very seriously the fact that you have reposed your career with us."
Reposed?? I realize that it's not an incorrect word choice, but it's a terribly pretentious word choice.
Aaaack...who am I kidding, I'm just jealous. Why, oh why, can't everyone announce already.
Can someone (Lat ;) as a service to the readership post an updated list of the firms that have not matched (say of the top 100 firms by revenue or number of lawyers, who cares). The last attempt during the morning thread was not even close to being accurate.
Any chance this demand will trickle down into employment for tier 2 grads?
Survey: Increased Demand for Lawyers at Firms, In-House
By Thomas Adcock
New York Law Journal
February 9, 2007
http://www.law.com/jsp/nylj/PubArticleNY.jsp?hubtype=BackPage&id=1170928967158
Of all attorneys looking to make career moves this year, those in the catbird seat - the ones with multiple offers who can practically name their price - have five-plus years of experience in corporate transactional law or corporate litigation, according to a new report.
And for first-year associates at large Manhattan firms, starting salaries could rise to $190,000 by December, the report predicts.
The forecasts come in the "2007 Salary Guide" from Robert Half Legal, a Menlo Park, Calif.-based recruiter that sees a particularly rosy year for attorneys, paralegals and support staff.
Charles Volkert, executive director of Robert Half, said the demand for lawyers at firms and corporate legal departments would increase this year due to corporate governance requirements, new business initiatives and rising caseloads.
He added that lawyers with backgrounds in compliance and regulatory issues, litigation, intellectual property and real estate are also "particularly well positioned to take advantage of the current job market."
Maura Mann, manager of training and development at Robert Half Legal, predicted the significant rise in first-year pay.
"We anticipate that even beyond the [recent] jump to $165,000 salaries," she said, large firms in New York and a few other cities with especially high costs of living will "continue to pull the trigger" throughout this year, which will see salaries boosted first into the $180,000 range and then to about $190,000 by December.
See charts of projected 2007 salary ranges and project attorney hiring trends.
Up to a point, a hiring partner at a major Manhattan firm confirmed that prediction.
"Maybe not by the end of this year, but the $190,000 mark is close and inevitable," said the partner, who asked not to be identified.
There are "ebbs and flows" in the industry, said Joanne S. Ollman, director of professional resources at Proskauer Rose, "but right now it doesn't seem like there are many ebbs."
Ms. Ollman, too, spoke of increased competition in lateral hiring, which would lead inevitably to increased compensation for both senior and junior associates.
"The lateral market is getting so tight," she said. "Firms would rather hire at the front end and worry about it later at the back end. I'm not sure it works, but that's the strategy."
Drawing from her experience at Proskauer - as well as similar stints at Weil, Gotshal & Manges and Cravath, Swaine & Moore - Ms. Ollman acknowledged, "We're all fighting over the same five laterals who still want to practice law after five years or so."
Other hiring trends noted in the Robert Half survey include:
• Competition for first-years has "intensified" as large and midsize firms "tap an ever-shrinking pool of candidates to bulk up their staff in response to increasing caseloads."
• In-house counsel experienced in regulatory and compliance issues continue to be in demand as a result of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002, passed in response to a wave of corporate scandals.
• Paralegals with three or more years' experience also continue to be in demand at large and midsize firms, and will increasingly assume traditional first-year associate tasks such as trial preparation, research and witness interviews.
Further, according to the Robert Half survey, which questioned 300 attorneys at representative law firms and corporate legal departments:
• Fifty-five percent of firms expect to increase their number of lawyers in 2007, while 41 percent expect lawyer ranks to remain the same.
• The most growth by practice area will be in ethics and corporate governance (25 percent), litigation (23 percent) and intellectual property (19 percent).
• Increased workload is the single biggest challenge for corporate law departments, according to 34 percent of respondents, followed by compliance or regulatory issues (28 percent) and litigation costs (24 percent).
Far less than half the attorneys surveyed - 38 percent - said compensation is the biggest incentive for staying with their firms. Nearly one third of those surveyed - 29 percent - cited professional development opportunities as the most important incentive. Sixteen percent cited flexible work arrangements.
Ms. Mann expects increased interest among experienced attorneys in leaving law firms for in-house counsel positions.
"These are people five or six years out who've had the chance to practice and are thinking several years down the line about ultimate goals - whether they want to be partners," she said. "If not, it's the ideal time to move to the in-house role, which may not be as lucrative as the firms, but where you have more of a work-life balance."
Ms. Ollman said of the wave of lawyers seeking to move in-house, "We're fighting hardest against the banks. There are no more dot-coms, but the banks are certainly picking up."
To stem the tide, Ms. Mann said many large firms are implementing ever more "life development programs," which especially allow women to maintain career continuity.
"Ten years ago if a woman wanted to start her family, she had to leave or go to a smaller firm," said Ms. Mann. "And when she wanted to come back, it was a big hill to climb. Now it's not out of the realm of possibility to have it all. We see more of them tele-commuting. If they're not at work at nine on the dot, it's no longer a big deal. Firms realize they have to make accommodations."
Shut up Loyola 2L. You are such a whining bitch.
I just asked a question. Sheesh.
Lat --can you block L2L --he really is a troll and is f-ing up this blog.
I talked to someone at Jones Day Dallas last night and they are at $150K for first years.
Lat --please find out who L2L is --and post a picture! I need to see if my mental image of him is correct.
What a loser!
Why is everyone being so viscious suddenly? Don't ask me questions if you don't want a response.
Why does everyone keep oppressing all the tier 2 posters on this board? Why aren't we entitled to the same jobs and the same money that the rest of you are? I know no one here worked any harder in law school than I am, but you all got your jobs handed to you. So stop picking on me.
The 5:27 post was not me. I know how to spell vicious. My 5:31 post stands though.
The 5:31 post is more eloquent too.
Can you please all stop talking about salaries? It hurts my feelings as a tier 2 student. Because I am a tier 2 student I will never, ever work in a law firm. Why do you all treat tier 2 students like we're lower than dirt? Surely we must be at least the value of hamsters.
Chuck Norris punched me in the teeth because I am a tier 2 student. My teeth fell out and now they are fertilizer for the plants in Simpson Thatcher's offices. I asked Simpson Thatcher for my teeth back but they laughed at me and threw me in a den of lions.
L2L, I just want to speak up and tell you that the reason everyone is "picking on you" may have to do with the fact that most of us are coming to this thread to get information about salaries. I could really care less where you went to school or where you want to work. I just want to know if I get a raise and your incessant commenting is getting in my way.
"And for first-year associates at large Manhattan firms, starting salaries could rise to $190,000 by December, the report predicts."
I call BS on this but I like the sound of it.
rofl @ 5:36
Dechert is considering making an announcement that it has no plans to announce at this time, but that an announcement may be made in the future. Once it has been determined that an announcement may be forthcoming, Dechert may announce its intention to make an announcement, subsequent to which time, it may make an announcement... or not.
So do increased salaries during good times mean increased layoffs during bad times?
Laura, if you get a raise I'm sure you'll know it before anyone else here.
Don't tell L2L to shut up. He's some of the best entertainment I get holed up here in my high-paying BigLaw firm job.
Laura,
Sorry if my stories of tier 2 unemployment occupied 2 seconds of your time as you eagerly await new of your (pre-bonus) $160k salary.
And note I didn't post all the Loyola 2L posts. Most of them are from imposters.
Loyola2L
So do increased salaries during good times mean increased layoffs during bad times?
I did not write the 5:41 post. Most of these posts are NOT by imposters. Why is it that people don't believe I am who I say I am? It's probably because I go to a tier 2 school and suck so hard.
Anyone else see art in the intertwining of biglaw salary increases and Loyola 2L's stories of tier 2 unemployed misery?
Dechert is considering making an announcement that it has no plans to announce at this time, but that an announcement may be made in the future. Once it has been determined that an announcement may be forthcoming, Dechert may announce its intention to make an announcement, subsequent to which time, it may make an announcement... or not.
test
>>So do increased salaries during good times mean increased layoffs during bad times?<<
Pretty much, yep. The class of 2000 grads say hi.
>>So do increased salaries during good times mean increased layoffs during bad times?<<
Pretty much, yep. The class of 2000 grads say hi.
I like reading this website for the snark and info, and even though I generally ignore Loyola2L's comments, I am really beginning to get annoyed with the constant postings and lamentings. I know you don't censor comments, but can't you block Loyola2L until s/he agrees to stop posting the same annoying, irrelevant comments?
I don't mean to be rude about this, but reading the comments is like reading Loyola2L's personal blog.
Here here! I bet L2L is costing you clicks and money Lat!
L2L, if you are so bothered by hearing about how much money the 1st tier grads make, stop reading here and go back to studying. You may have a chance at biglaw yet if you are at the top of your 2nd tier class, but that won't happen if you continue moping around on this message board getting more and more depressed about something you don't have much control over and trying to make those of us who get paid big bucks feel guilty for it. I personally worked my @$$ off for this opportunity. If someone wants to pay me big piles of money because I did that, I'm happy to oblige.
You only want me removed because I'm from a tier 2 school! How typical, just ignore the plight of the poor, trampled-upon, cancer-ridden, malnourished, learning-disabled tier 2 student.
I bet you would all like to remain blind to our plight! People like you are responsible for Darfur. Tier 2 schools are my Darfur!!
Is there a tier 2 blog, where they talk about salary increases from $40k to $50k, where I can post?
It's known as jdjive.com
so what did K&L Gates do everywhere other than NYC?
I didn't post the comments above, especially not the offensive 6:24 comment.
I definitely didn't post the whiny 6:25 comment.
klgates dc bumped to $145 for first years as of March 1, but I don't have a memo. It was announced at an associates meeting.
I don't know if 6:19 is the real L2L, but if it is, that's the funniest thing you've said in a week and a half.
I didn't post the 6:28 comment saying I didn't post the 6:25 comment. WTF
We should rename this blog,
"abovethel2l-aw.com"
Ummmm...Will you love me? I can't believe that you all make six figures while I'm still a law student and don't have my future set yet. Please allow me to whine before I've actually suffered any set-back. The prospective harm I'm suffering far outweighs any actual harm.
I don't know who this "Loyaloa" person is, but it definitely isn't me.
I bet they're from some pathetic tier 3 school.
L@L, Darling, Dear,
Stop whining. Get good grades and transfer to a top tier school. And, if this thread disturbs you, try not to read it.
It is hard not to write mean things to you. Go network. Meet people. Show them how smart you are.
Also, IF you were in the top 5% at Loyola, you could get a job at a top firm. So quit whining and go study.
But what about the other 95%? That's my point.
Rumor at Greedy IP that Finnegan Henderson will match Fish's $160k scale.
Confirmed?
The point is, not everyone is a top tier lawyer at a top tier firm. The people who are worked hard to get there. You are working hard, too. I grant you that. But, if you were top tier material you would not be here whining, you would be working hard to get top grades, not just sitting here annoying people.
Top school grads are allowed to post here while studying, but if tier 2 grads do it something is wrong with them. No wonder we're not allowed in any influential part of the legal world.
I went to a "Tier 2" school (because it was the best school in my home town and I naively bought into the 'it doesn't matter where you go to school' line; but that's neither here nor there), graduated in the top 5%. and now work at BigLaw and got the raise. There is hope for you, Loyola2L, if you get your grades up and interview well.
Pillsbury just matched in NYC and announced 145K in California and DC.
I can confirm Pillsbury's match.
7:36, I respect where you're coming from, but still don't care. I'd rather complain. The LA market is soooo small (there are, after all, only 10 million people in LA), and there are probably only 60 or so firms in town starting their associates at six figures. I mean, given that the LA law schools graduate a total of 900 people a year, how can I POSSIBLY compete?
Loyola 2L: you are pathetic!! You are such a girlie boy! Adjust your bra straps and pull down your skirt for crying out loud. Get it together. It is you, you, you. I am certain that you talk yourself right out of a job with all your self-pity gibberish.
Loyola 2L: you are pathetic!! You are such a girlie boy! Adjust your bra straps and pull down your skirt for crying out loud. Get it together. It is you, you, you. I am certain that you talk yourself right out of a job with all your self-pity gibberish.
L2L: you can't compete because you suck! Please Lat can you block Loyola 2L, both of them, whoever they are.
"Top school grads are allowed to post here while studying, but if tier 2 grads do it something is wrong with them."
If we have already graduated, why would we be studying (unless for the bar)? And, perhaps, yes, top tier can post instead of studying while you should be hitting the books if you want to elevate yourself to the pedestal.
"No wonder we're not allowed in any influential part of the legal world."
Are you claiming that the top tier grads and biglaw are VICTIMIZING poor little 2nd tier grads? Now that's the funniest thing I've heard all day! Stop blaming others for your shortcomings!
L2L: you can't compete because you suck! Please Lat can you block Loyola 2L, both of them, whoever they are.
L2L you poor baby...you had the terrible misfortune to go to a Tier 2 school. The plight is so horrible. I'm sure the people dying in Darfur are so glad that they only have to worry about starving and dieing--they don't have to worry about the day to day life as a Tier 2 student.
As a tier 2 student, I am amazed by the fact that you could even think to compare Darfur to Tier 2 schools.
"You are such a girlie boy! Adjust your bra straps and pull down your skirt for crying out loud. "
Kind of an ironic insult for David Lat's blog.
At least you are not as much of a loser as me - T4.
8:03 - I didn't post that comment. People are posting under my moniker to make fun of my plight.
Is there any doubt now that LA firms paying $145k to first-years are below market?
WHAT DID K&L DO IN PITTSBURGH?????
And, apparently it's obvious why I'm a tier 2 student dying I think is the word I was going for up there....
L2L: The comment about adjusting bra straps has nothing to do with one's sexuality. It has everything to do with the fact that you are whining like a little girl going through puberty. Just stop it for goodness sakes.
UnivBaltimore2L,
We're in the same boat. Top 5-10% from our schools get rewarding jobs. The rest get to waste our lives.
Loyola2L
Loyola 2L: You frequently refer to your firm as "second tier" or "Tier 2"... isn't that overstating things?
I know who L2L is. He is the brother of the girl who jumped naked into the Hudson River. hahahahahah
I didn't post the 8:07 comment. Stop trying to make me look ridiculous! Tier 2 IS as bad as Darfur, at least comparatively. You all get to eat your expensive steaks and drink your expensive wine on your big firm salaries but I am loaded down with debt and will end up starving soon!
And LA is such a tiny city, I could never ever hope to find work here. Hardly anyone lives in LA. You walk around and it's like it's deserted. I don't know how people find jobs out here... where are these law firms located? I don't see any buildings, I only see tumbleweeds.
Won't anyone read my resume? I know the spelling sucks but look its the spirit of teh thing ok!!!
L2L: I go to a top 5 law school, have generally slacked off in my two years here, got mediocre grades, and still managed to land 1L and 2L summer gigs at these big firms with their big salaries. With this new pay raise, I'll probably earn more next summer than you'll be able to make in a year! Cheers.
Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all,
And sweetest in the gale is heard;
And sore must be the storm
That could abash the little bird
That kept so many warm.
I 've heard it in the chillest land,
And on the strangest sea;
Yet, never, in extremity,
It asked a crumb of me.
Then I applied to biglaw from a tier 2,
and a flurry of rejection letters killed it.
Emily,
See, you understand my plight. How nice of you to use your real name on a bulletin board. Are you a partner at a biglaw firm? Can I send you my resume? If only more biglaw hiring partners had a heart like yours.
Loyola 2L
rofl @ 8:36. Do you think Loyola 2L knows which firm Emily works at? Don't tell him.
chirp chirp says the WGWAG
still at work...
I won't tell him if you won't, but I'm sure he can find her if he searches enough biglaw firm websites.
I think Congress should pass legislation to guaranty me a chance at a top law firm. I mean I wasn't smart enough to go to a top school and I didn't get top grades. On top of it I am not willing to go out and sell my non-grade, non-school related skills to an employer to justify such a good salary. Instead I will lobby Congress to protect me.
I know other people made it into BigLaw from non-Tier 1 schools but they had marketable skills (such a personality that would attract clients), so its no fair.
7:17: Yeah, someone's gotta keep state bar revenue up by taking the exam multiple times and paying exam fees. Then, when they finally pass, they perform the invaluable public service of chasing ambulances... Who else but tier 2 and below is suited for that? Certainly not me! My station in life is one of privilege because I deserve it.
L2L, don't worry... there are plenty of jobs out there for you when you give up on repeating the bar exam. Didn't your career counselor prepare you by giving you the pamphlet that all tier 2 law schools and below are required to pass out -- "Alternative Careers for Low Tier Law School Grads (Who Just Can't Make it as Real Lawyers)"
I like that corporate counsel article. I would just love to work 9 to 5 and supervise litigations and audit BIGLAW bills, calling to bitch because someone did too many Westlaw searches on some shit you could find in Moores. But I need to maintain my accustomed standard (barely BIGLAW as in no raise yet... ) of living, so I would clearly need mucho stock options. Cheers :)
Loyola... Do a mass mailing. It can't hurt. Make the letters super personal, you send out 100 letters you may catch the eye of one - that's all you need.
David Lat has assumed the moniker Loyola 2L. It's kind of like the Dread Pirate Roberts from the Rob Reiner class, The Princess Bride.
I don't care what anyone says - Loyola 2L is fantastic. You are hilarious, dude.
Let me tell you something though - I went to a tier 1 school and did pretty well - I'm at a biglaw firm, but the grass ain't always greener on the other side.
If you need somebody to lobby Congress, that's exactly what I do, bro. If you want to throw down a few hundred an hour, I'll hook you up with some legislation in the Hizzouse... literally... the Hizzouse of Representatives....
I'm grad from a tier 4 law school in the northeast this may and will be making 160k in a large nyc law firm. The quality of your school isn't all that important if YOU are quality.
ok, KL Gates made the move. Reed Smith, you are on the clock.
Are you people still here insulting me? I didn't write any of the posts above and was actually out jogging. The weather here is great as usuall of course.
First of all I know who Emily Dickinson is. She'a a 19th century poet.
Second I did a mass mailing with hundreds of resumes and didn't get an interview.
Third I definitely didn't write that legislation post.
Fourth I'm exhausted so good night.
L2L, you are at least better than me, my law school is not even accredited.
If you guys have taught me one thing it's never to expect sympathy from biglaw.
it's about time you learned that. Don't expect sympathy to get you anything. You will not get a job because you worked harder or because you are nicer or anything. The best you can hope for is that you get a job that is as good as the job you can do. And that means hard work and talent. I don't know why you are at Loyola... maybe it is because you botched the LSAT, maybe you dindt work hard in undergrad, or made bad choices, or maybe you just aren't that academically gifted. But all you have is your experience, your track record, and what you have shown you can do. You have not proven yourself, so you will not get a biglaw job. End of story.
L2L - I work for a bunch of Tier 2 & 3 grads (Loyola is on of the schoosls) and spent my 1st year at a Tier 2 school. These lower-tier grads are all biglaw partners that made it the old fashioned way - by busting thier ass and being smarter than you (Amlaw top-ten if you care). I get to make $200k as a junior associate b/c I also busted my ass. Do the same and get the same result. If you don't, that's OK - Just shut up!!!
Your Heller Ehrman information is stale: They bumped their Seattle office to $130k today. Anyone know what K&L Gates did in Seattle? They still at $115k?
List of firms who have moved to $190!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
L2L, Why don't you spend less time jogging and more time studying. All you do is have fun and whine. No wonder you're only top 25% and got shut out of biglaw.
Somone clue L2L in on biglaw hours. If he can't study hard enough to make top 10% at a tier 2 he would get eaten alive in biglaw.
L2L -- when you get up in the morning, take some time to think. Get away from this blog and think about what makes you uniquely valuable to an employer. I will tell you that almost everyone at Biglaw has something (even if it is just good grades at a good school). If its not grades at a Tier 1 school (and there are pleanty of people in Biglaw who did not have top grades from top schools) its something else. Do you have some prior work experience that is uniquely valuable, an ability to attract clients, anything? Did you sell more Amway than anyone else on your block? Figure this out and tailor your cover letter to stress this skill set to the needs of each firm you are applying to. Stop crying and start figuring out why you are worth the salary that you so despirately want.
I know many of us a Biglaw know we are worth what we are getting (especially since some of our firms have not matched). You need a real answer of why you are worth this money. You need to convey it in your cover letter and in your dealings with firms. Partners want people who add value and make their lives easier. This is the only reason why they tolerate the high salaries -- to get people who will please and retain THEIR clients and make THEIR lives easier. They do not pay these wages out of fairness or because an associate tried hard to get a Biglaw job.
You may also need to think in steps, such as 1) maximizing your grades, 2) getting the best job you can land that is going to get you experience, 3) building that experience and getting a positive reputation, then 4) lateraling into the job you really wanted. If you can sell why you are fantastic for that particular firm you can get a job with someone.
Why hasn't Ropes moved? I say it's the Boston market, a friend says it's unstable finances. Any opinions?
Information needed!
Does anyone know what the NY firms are doing with senior (i.e. 98+)associate pay. What exactly does determined on an individual basis mean?
As a side note on HA's post at 12:54 ...
I am on the recruiting team for my biglaw firm, and one of the first things we say is "that kid does/doesn't only want the money"
It's expensive to lose people, and if you're just gonna bounce around for another couple hundred bucks (even though we are at market) we dont' want the hassle. You have to make them believe that you really want the job, that you really want to work there. And that you've thought about why you want to be there as opposed to other places. I know not everyone is like this, but trust me, we all see right through you to the "give me my 160" behind your bullshit. Do you even want to be a lawyer?
anon, I totally don't just want the money. I want to biglaw because I enjoy giving up 70 hours a week of my life to shuffle papers for massive corporations. Now can I send you my resume?
McKenna Long & Aldridge, DC. Any news? Firm has been silent. Will the firm match market?
Ok, enough about Ropes having not raised. Its official. I've emailed with several associates there who have confirmed the raise to $145k in Boston, with an escalating pay scale to match NY salaries by the 6th year. I'm not sure why no one has posted the email memo, but there has been at least 5 different posts saying that it was by email last Monday. It was also confirmed on the Greedy Boston board.
Re Finnegan Henderson, the following was posted at Greedy IP by "Patently Chicken Redux" who appears to be a regular on that board, and had earlier posted a question about the FH scale. Appears not to be a joke.
"2006-160
2005-170
2004-185
2003-200
2002-215
2001-230
2000-250
1999-270
5% bonus per 100 hours over 2000 up to 2400
up to 20% merit bonus
After the first two years the base salaries are lower than Fish and Richardson. The potential merit bonus is double what it was before and may make up for the lower base salary for some."
Perkins in Seattle went to $120 (up from $110) yesterday.
I have a hard time believing top 25% at a decent school like Loyola is not good enough for some biglaw jobs ... maybe not Cravath or Skadden, but a firm like Holland & Knight for example. Maybe get a ll.m. from a better school than try ...
2:23, I agree. There are plenty of AMLAW 100 firms that would hire a Loyola student in the top 25%. Maybe Loyola 2L had a typo on his resume since it was summarily rejected by all the firms!!!
Munger matched LW scale only. Of the relatively "prestigious" lit mid-sized and boutiques in CA, Quinn and Keker are paying 160. I expect Irell to go to 160 as well.
L2L really should quit the whining. E.g., Skadden has 7 partners and 14 associates from Loyola (search by law school on their website).
agree with you 2:46. Maybe the type of personality that spends all day posting inane comments on a gossip blog is not a good fit for BigLaw...hmm...
So let me get this straight, of the 60+ firms that raised first-year salaries in NYC, only 1 (Blank Rome) didn't go to 160K. Anyone know of other below-market firms?
L2L, life is unfair. Get the fuck over it. Just because you've worked hard does not entitle you to a 6-figure salary. Either you chose a tier 2 knowing the shitty job prospects that accompanies the school, or you failed to do sufficient research on this before choosing your school. Either way, you're fucked and you're not worthy of any sympathy.
what will it take for people to get it.
darfur didn't work.
what else is left?
no, don't go there.
hey loyola - you realize that anytime a hiring partner who has read this blog in the past two weeks gets an application from someone in the top 25% at loyola they're just going to throw it away at the fear of it being yours. good job. chances are they throw it away anyway though so whatever, no harm no foul...
for what its worth, I was bottom half of my class at a school ranked in the 40s and I am an 8th year associate at an AmLaw /Vault 100 firm ...
A (5:55): i think that, unlike you, hiring partners are astute enough to realize that L2L is an internet schtick designed to get a raise out of novices.
What about the partner from S&C that told Charney to bend over. He's graduated from like a tier 6 school and succeeded (sort of) at a biglaw. Is that school even accredited?