Jenner & Block, you're next!

Let's see which Chicago firms follow and sucker punch their associates with COMPRESSION!!!!

Did Brown Rudnick raise to $160k in all office outside of NY (including Hartford?!) or just Boston?

Did Brown Rudnick raise to $160k in all office outside of NY (including Hartford?!) or just Boston?

Now DC is officially at 160k. How long will it take Williams and Connolly to increase to $175 given that they don't pay bonuses?

Thank you, David. There a lots of Chicago associates who owe you a drink.

Nice that Sidley made it effective as of May 1st rather than June 1st.

i can has a raise!

Commenter to earlier post on clerkship bonuses indicated that STB had gone to 50/70 --anyone hear anything about this?

Jenner should raise shortly.

Looks like 160 is officially market in Chicago. Drinks on me! (once my firm matches)

mmm...BLT....i could go for one right about now. maybe a nice arnold palmer (1/2 lemonade, 1/2 iced tea) to wash it down.

GeeneParmesan's the name. Moving the Chicago market is my game.

Feel the love! Sidley thanks Mayer. Mayer thanks Kirkland. Kirkland thanks Latham and Paul Hastings. Latham and Paul Hastings thank Orrick. Orrick thanks Simpson and NYC. Feel the love!

CH list of shame:

Jenner
Katten
McDermott
Sonnenschein
Winston
Holland & Knight
Bell Boyd
Baker McKenzie
Foley
Wildman Harrold
DLA Piper
Schiff
McGuireWoods

Congrats to Sidley associates! Hopefully friends at Jenner, McDermott, Winston can join in soon. I'd also be happy for anyone else, but I'm not sure how far this party is going to spread. One thing is for sure, it won't be all the same firms that are now at 145.

11:44 -- Based on how long it took them last time to raise, my guess is one month.

Now A&P just has to do something about that completely pathetic 15k, one-shot clerkship bonus.

I just want a puppy dog.

I'm glad I squeeked into biglaw, but I feel for my friends at the midsized firms . . . I just don't see them keeping pace with this move. Suppose I'll be buying a lot of drinks.

Is A&P really still only offering $15K to clerks? That's nuts...

I'm glad I squeeked into biglaw, but I feel for my friends at the midsized firms . . . I just don't see them keeping pace with this move. Suppose I'll be buying a lot of drinks.

CLERKSHIP BONUSES (as of 5/25/07):

The $50k List (* denotes $50k/$70k):
2. Cravath*
3. SullCrom*
4. Skadden*
5. Davis Polk
6. STB
7. Cleary
9. Weil*
12. Paul Weiss
13. Debevoise
21. White & Case
25. Ropes & Gray (NY only)*
54. LeBoeuf*
55. Cahill
NR. Patterson Belknap

The "List of Shame":
1. Wachtell ($0)
8. Latham ($35k)
10. Kirkland ($35k)
11. Covington ($35k)
14. Wilmer ($35k)
15. Shearman ($15k)
16. Sidely ($35k)
17. Williams & Connolly ($25k)
18. Gibson ($35k)
19. Arnold ($15k)
20. OMM ($35k)
22. Jones Day (?)
23. MoFo (?)
24. Hogan (?)
25. Ropes & Gray ($35K outside NY but $70K for 2yr clerkship)

not only are they still only offering 15k, that applies even if you do a second clerkship. I assume that they pay market for supreme court clerks...but with firms offering 70k for two years of clerking, I don't see how A&P can sit there at 15k for two clerkships and hope to get anyone.

Can we please stop with the clerkship comments in the salary threads?

Anyone else on this board besides 11:44am curious about what's going to happen at Williams and Connolly?

Can we please stop with the clerkship comments in the salary threads?

jerky at 11:45 is spot on - David Lat is now the patron saint of associates.

Why are clerkship comments so offensive in a salary thread? For clerks, compensation considerations take into account more than just base salary. If a firm is willing to raise base pay, but keep their clerkship bonus structure significantly below market, that would appear to say something about the value the firm places on clerks. And law students considering clerking, and clerks deciding where to go, should feel free to discuss these issues. A salary thread seems like as good a place as any to discuss them.

Its shocking that clerks get bonuses for knocking around judge's chambers for a year, and bigger bonus for doing it for 2 years. Its akin to a "backpacking around Europe" bonus. Spare us.

12:22 -- b/c just like salary discussions, we clerks seeking the bump must keep the discussion ALIVE. ALIVE. ALIVE. ALIVE.

jealous much?

yes, people shut up about clerkship bonuses. Move that discussion to another forum. This is about salaries!

Is A&P really still only offering $15K to clerks? That's nuts...

We should tar-and-feather every 5th clerk in Chicago. It would set an example and would be a pretty efficient way of sending warnings to both camps.

Any word on potential clerkship bonus raises? I just don't get how these so called "List of Shame" firms can sit there and not raise the clerkship bonus.

New CA List of Shame

1) Pillsbury*
2) Thelen Reid*
3) McDermott Will & Emery
4) Reed Smith
5) Morgan Lewis
6) Bingham
7) Perkins Coie
8) Bryan Cave
9) Manatt*
10) Munger*
11) Townsend*
12) A bunch of Chicago firms except for Kirkland & Ellis, Sidley, Mayer Brown, DLA Piper, and Winston & Strawn

dear managing partner of chicago office of my firm,

you already pay 160k in DC and NY, can i plz has raise?!

Any word on potential clerkship bonus raises? I just don't get how these so called "List of Shame" firms can sit there and not raise the clerkship bonus.

Any word on potential clerkship bonus raises? I just don't get how these so called "List of Shame" firms can sit there and not raise the clerkship bonus.

Suck it clerk haters.

All your salary are belong to us.

No offense to those of you who are clerk-bonus obsessed, but are you really clerking for your clerkship bonus? Isn't the whole point of clerking to get the prestige that pays off throughout your career? If you really want the money now, don't clerk and take get your money from your recently exploding associate salary.

I get that you care what your firm thinks about clerking, but we all know that, in the aggregate, they would rather have everyone in and billing hours right out of the gate than toiling for a billable hourless judge.

Law students: you are an idiot if you select your law firm based on what they pay clerks.

So associates in markets Chicago, DC, Dallas, LA, NYC, SF, Boston, Charlotte, Denver, Sacremento, Houston, Philly, and Raleigh will make between 300-500k more during their associate years.

I am sure I missed some.

No offense to those of you who are clerk-bonus obsessed, but are you really clerking for your clerkship bonus? Isn't the whole point of clerking to get the prestige that pays off throughout your career? If you really want the money now, don't clerk and take get your money from your recently exploding associate salary.

I get that you care what your firm thinks about clerking, but we all know that, in the aggregate, they would rather have everyone in and billing hours right out of the gate than toiling for a billable hourless judge.

Law students: you are an idiot if you select your law firm based on what they pay clerks.

^^^ Than Atlanta associates

All the movement on clerkship bonuses has come from NY-based firms, with the exception of Ropes & Gray, which raised for NY only. Once one of the big DC appellate shops moves, major waves will be inevitable. But the DC market is alluring to clerks for many reasons that more than compensate for a one-time $15-20k difference, so the players there may hope to wait this out a recruiting season and see how things play. If they can still attract clerks while paying less, they will. And the bonus divide will last, at least for a few more years.

Jimmy 12:21 -- I am, but it doesn't seem as if anyone else is. Perhaps because, although BigLaw, they are smaller and are in a league of their own.

Jimmy 12:21 -- I am, but it doesn't seem as if anyone else is. Perhaps because, although BigLaw, they are smaller and are in a league of their own.

Anyone confirm Munger and Manatt raises? Some other threads said so.

I know DLA recently raised in major offices. Are they also considering clerkship bonuses? Any word on that?

Re: Williams and Connolly:

It's really hard to see them staying where they are. The firm is awash in cash and its Associates (from what I have heard) are worked to death with no promise of a bonus. Can a W&C Associate confirm?

It's shocking that they haven't been out in front of the recent market shift. Anything less than a raise to $175K would be an insult to their Associates.

What I want to know is when are all of you joyous associates are going to find the time for your celebratory drinks? It seems to me that the $15k salary increase translates into another 50 or so billable hours.

12:44 --- no, we are not clerking for just the clerkship bonuses, just like you aren't a lawyer just for the money (and if you are, sorry to hear that). But it's no different than the prior intra-city salary discussions. If some firms are offering more for bonuses than others, there is the prestige factor and the why shouldn't I get the extra money factor? We are no less or more greedy than you.

12:53-
I personally don't see how W&C can avoid raising to $175k; they would fall behind Wilmer and A&P given their bonuses. I just hope that W&C doesn't wait until December, because that would really hurt this fall's recruiting...

1:01 - Have you seen ANY firm raise hours with this salary hike?

Its painful to watch Boston and NY raise while CT languishes.

Seems to me, those firms should just open offices in CT where they can get away with paying a fraction of the prevailing salaries in their home states.

I'm not bitter.

anonymous clerk,

I totally agree. It's EXACTLY like the salary discussion. Prior to the recent round of raises, in LA you could either work at a NY-based satellite office (Skadden, Simpson, etc.) and earn $15k more a year than one of the LA-based "Big 3." Now, you can go work at a NY-based satellite office and earn an additional $15k as a clerkship bonus than you would earn at an LA-based firm. Just doesn't make sense.

Bottom line: so-called "Big 3" and other wannabe prestitious firms, your clerkship bonuses need to be reevaluated.

If W&C wants to remain where it was, it needs to raise its 1st years to $180, not $175.

New CA List of Shame

1) Pillsbury*
2) Thelen Reid*
3) McDermott Will & Emery
4) Reed Smith
5) Morgan Lewis
6) Bingham
7) Perkins Coie
8) Bryan Cave
9) Manatt*
10) Munger*
11) Townsend*
12) Baker & McKenzie
13) A bunch of Chicago firms except for Kirkland & Ellis, Sidley, Mayer Brown, DLA Piper, and Winston & Strawn

Texas List of Shame:

1) Baker Botts
2) Fulbright
3) Locke Lord
4) Bracewell
5) A&K

Clerks, you can take your discussion over here:

http://www.abovethelaw.com/2007/05/clerkship_bonus_watch_paul_wei.php

Texas Market:

1st: 150,000
2nd: 160,000
3rd: 175,000
4th: 190,000
5th: 210,000
6th: 230,000
7th + : 245,000

CH list of shame:

Jenner
Jones Day
Katten
McDermott
Sonnenschein
Winston
Holland & Knight
Bell Boyd
Baker McKenzie
Foley
Wildman Harrold
DLA Piper
Schiff
McGuireWoods
Vedder Price

clerking is so awesome. i can't wait to recieve my huge bonus. tell my how great my experience was and give me more than my last year's salary just for showing up. clerking. clerking. awesome. great.

Texas Offices at $160K:
Dewey Ballantine (Austin - 9)
Fish & Richardson (Austin - 9, Dallas - 30)
Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP (Dallas - 27)
McKool Smith LLP (Dallas - 46)
Skadden Arps LLP (Houston - 19)
Weil Gotshal LLP (Dallas - 57, Houston - 46)
Wilson Sonsini (Austin - 32)
Sidley Austin (Dallas -14)

Texas Offices at $150K
Dechert LLP (Austin - 6)
Jones Day LLP (Dallas - 109, Houston - 26)
Pillsbury (Houston -9)

Texas Offices at $160K:
Dewey Ballantine (Austin - 9)
Fish & Richardson (Austin - 9, Dallas - 30)
Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP (Dallas - 27)
McKool Smith LLP (Dallas - 46)
Skadden Arps LLP (Houston - 19)
Weil Gotshal LLP (Dallas - 57, Houston - 46)
Wilson Sonsini (Austin - 32)
Sidley Austin (Dallas -14)

Texas Offices at $150K
Dechert LLP (Austin - 6)
Jones Day LLP (Dallas - 109, Houston - 26)
Pillsbury (Houston -9)
DLA Piper

Based on old scale, Williams & Connolly needs to pay the following to be competitive w/ A&P et al.:

1. 180
2. 195
3. 210
4. 230

Texas Offices at $160K:
Dewey Ballantine (Austin - 9)
Fish & Richardson (Austin - 9, Dallas - 30)
Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP (Dallas - 27)
McKool Smith LLP (Dallas - 46)
Skadden Arps LLP (Houston - 19)
Weil Gotshal LLP (Dallas - 57, Houston - 46)
Wilson Sonsini (Austin - 32)
Sidley Austin (Dallas -14)

Texas Offices at $150K
Dechert LLP (Austin - 6)
Jones Day LLP (Dallas - 109, Houston - 26)
Pillsbury (Houston -9)
DLA Piper
Mayer Brown

Texas to $160K!

Texas: Any news from V&E?

1:39-
Looks right to me. Last time, though, W&C took a long while to match the increase, and I wonder if they will wait until year's end on this one.

Atlanta to $150!

Re: 1:42.

According to an article in the Texas Lawyer two weeks ago, V&E is taking a "wait and see" approach. From the quote in the article by V&E's managing partner, it sounds as if V&E is not going to move unless someone else does, but if history is any indicator, no other "big tex" firm is going to move unless V&E does. So it looks like Texas will be at an impasse.

The real irony is that V&E's PPP's last year were at a record high - well over $1m. Yet V&E is more interested in keeping the PPP high to attract lateral partners with business than in increasing associate pay. V&E would rather have great partners with clients and sub-par associates to do that work.

With ever increasing number of out of state firms paying their Texas associates on the new national pay scale, the true top law school grads are going to go where the money is -- not a Big Tex firm.

If that is the bed Big Tex wants to lay in, then they are going to get it.

I dont think Texas associates are demanding the $160 pay scale. But there needs to be much less compression up the ranks. As was posted yesterday on Greedy Texas, over the course of a Texas associates' associate career, the difference in pay from the new national pay scale is astounding. Over 8 years, the difference is $435k.

Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman just raised in DC, NOVA, and CA (except Sacramento - still under consideration) to 160, with the same market bumps for senior associates.

any chance of getting that A&P memo?

i'm incredibly depressed that people think W & C needs to remain exactly 15k above to be the same as the old scale. Should be a constant PERCENTAGE, not a constant dollar amount.

Take it to the extreme, if tomorrow every firm raised to one million, would W & C only need to pay $1,015,000?

(yes, I realize that it makes sense if bonuses are all 15k, but presumably if I work as hard as W & C associates I get a lot more than just an extra 15k)

Take McDermott off those lists of shame. Bumped California, DC, Chicago and Boston to NY scale today (effective 5/1). Miami, as the red-headed stepchild office, gets bupkis.

12:39 PM & 12:53 PM:

I can confirm Manatt went to $160. Effective 1/1/08, however.

2:14-
I don't get your point. If you did it in percentage terms, W&C would raise to $182 instead of to $180. Are you concerned about the $2k?

2:14-
I don't get your point. If you did it in percentage terms, W&C would raise to $182 instead of to $180. Are you concerned about the $2k?

2:20 - it's the principle of the thing (too may lawyers lacking even the most basic quant skills)... maybe i'm still just irritated from the various people who always post comments about what they "deserve" to be paid...

McDermott Will & Emery has raised to the $160K scale in Chicago, D.C., and its California offices, retroactice to May 1.

McDermott Will & Emery has raised to the $160K scale in Chicago, D.C., and its California offices, retroactive to May 1.

Did Pillsbury Winthrop raise in Houston? I heard they are hiring lateral associates like they are going out of style.

Lat, can we get the Pillsbury and MWE memos?

any news of dechert for its west coast offices?

does anyone have any idea what is going to happen in other markets as the trickle down effect takes hold? Ie, Nashville, Denver, Seattle, Birmingham, Richmond, Lexington, Cincinnatti, etc?

Indeed, let's see the MWE memo!

Current DC list of shame ($145K)

1. Covington
2. Winston
3. Dickstein
4. Howrey
5. Wiley Rein
6. Arent Fox
7. Venable
8. Crowell & Moring

Corrections? Updates?

2:20 -- I never said anything about what W&C associates "deserve," only what W&C would have to pay to remain "competitive."

And, speaking of basic (or, shall we say, rudimentary) quant skills, W&C is at least $20k above the going base salaries, not $15k.

My bad - that should have been addressed to 2:25. Spank me.

Tenative CA List of Shame (after confirmation of Munger, Manatt, MWE, and Pillsbury):

New CA List of Shame

1) Thelen Reid*
2) Reed Smith
3) Morgan Lewis
4) Bingham
5) Perkins Coie
6) Bryan Cave
7) Townsend*
8) A bunch of Chicago firms except for Kirkland & Ellis, Sidley, McDermott, Mayer Brown, DLA Piper, and Winston & Strawn

This is sad for that one big CA firm at the top of the list.

2:35 - wichita will probably go to 77 and birmingham to 84.

To the CA list of shame - please add dechert

NY TO 190!

are you cute enough to spank?

are you cute enough to spank?

2:41

1) very true. i only meant that the lack of quant skills (or understanding of supply and demand, etc.) is irritating and this struck a similar chord.

2) uh, yeah. no cookie for me.

New thread has the confirmed McDermott Will, Manatt Phelps, and Pillsbury Winthrop memos:

http://www.abovethelaw.com/2007/05/mcdermott_will_manatt_phelps.php

247- bham is at 85- any chance of 100 or nashville going to 110?

247- bham is at 85- any chance of 100 or nashville going to 110?

Anyone know the bonus structure for K&E/Sidley/Mayer?

Re Hartford, per a recent CT Law Trib article, Bracewell & Giuliani pays full NY scale, including starting salary of $160,000. I am not sure anyone else does.

what about staff attorneys (for the firms that actual have them doing substantive work)? Do they ever see a decent piece of the pie? Anyone know what their salary range is? Bonus structure? Do they see a raise when associates do?