CLEVELAND DEMANDS RECOGNITION AND WILL TAKE IT BY FORCE IF NECESSARY!!

Get out of Philadelphia while you still can.

Philadelphia is to cities, what Loyola 2L is to job candidats.

Philadelphia will not go to 160k or fix compression at the senior levels and, as a result, will continue to lose talent to New York and DC.

Philadelphia is inbred.

DLA appears to be the only national firm that has not matched. Why is that? Why would they choose to stay second tier rather than match Morgan & Dechert?

Pudlin said, ultimately, the salary increases would come out of the firm's bottom line -- and the partners' pockets.

* * *

When asked what he thought about criticisms that associates are becoming overpaid, Pudlin said he disagreed.

"If this is where the marketplace is, then I don't think they're being overpaid," Pudlin said. "Our shareholders are making very nice livings. ... It's not like we're suffering. The legal profession is a very successful one, and I guess we're sharing the wealth."

whats the story on Dechert in DC?

WGWAG in Cleveland

to 1:27 and other philly haters:

anyone that has ever lived in philly knows otherwise. prob the best restaurants in the country outside NY. world-class art museums and orchestra. upenn, the curtis institute, swarthmore, haverford, etc. all for a reasonable COL.
not to mention that the majority of the 3rd circuit sits there. i can go on and on.

with that said, the market for legal talent is weak in philly and will simply not competitive with NY and DC, and it won't be in the near future.

Dear Mr. Law Firm:

Can I has raze too plz?!

Sincrly,

Cleveland

1:38--Don't forget Pat's.

Dick and Balls.

Maybe the firms down there in Philly can start paying all y'all with soft pretzels and yuengling.

You've done Connecticut and Philly. How about NJ??? Or are you toying with the Garden State?

I thought it was the illadelphiatic insane for monetary gain?

Lat, you are the man. Finally someone is calling attention to the lousy mid-level comp that is pervasive throughout Philly. Now, if you're a local regional frim it's one thing. But for MLB and Dechert who like to bill themselves as "international" big-player firms, to pay such comp is inexcusable!!

1:38 - If you think Philly has the second-best restaurant scene, you must have never visited Las Vegas, Chicago, San Francisco and LA. If so, you would realize that Philly is more analagous to Omaha than NYC. Sorry.

1:48, that's an insult to omaha.

1:44--Can I get the name of the hiring partner at that firm?

Keep in mind, Illadelph is home to the original gun-clappers, and if you're out on the wrong block your shit'll get spun backwards.

Lat, you need to add Saul Ewing to the $135K list.

I want to know what Cozen and Fox Rothschild are doing - I thought Fox was making a big push and they seem to be acquiring new attorneys left and right, but yet they continue to pay below market?

I'm so glad I left philadelphia and moved to new york...

I can haz shoofly pie?

Fox is doo doo... always have been; always will be.

But look at their snazzy full-length photos for attorney bios.

http://www.foxrothschild.com/Attorneys/Attorney.aspx?id=2018

Maybe all the Dechert and MLB associates can treat all you other poor saps to some pretzels over at wawa.

DC MIDDLE DRAWER FIRMS (paying more than Philly, less than DC Top Drawer Firms)

(formerly known as DC Vault of Shame)

(minus Thelen Reid)

17. William & Connolly
36. King & Spalding
40. Baker Botts
48. Jenner & Block
50. Fulbright & Jaworski
58. Vinson & Elkins
59. Alston & Bird
61. Sonnenchein
64. Holland & Knight
66. Bingham McCutchen
68. Foley & Lardner
69. Steptoe & Johnson
70. Hunton & Williams
71. Patton Boggs
74. Kirkpatrick Lockhart
75. Nixon Peabody
77. Bryan Cave
79. Crowell & Moring
80. Howrey
86. McGuire Woods
87. Squire Sanders
88. Arent Fox
93. Kilpatrick Stockton
95. Dickstein
96. Venable

DC MIDDLE DRAWER FIRMS (paying more than Philly, less than DC Top Drawer Firms)

(formerly known as DC Vault of Shame)

(minus Thelen Reid)

17. William & Connolly
36. King & Spalding
40. Baker Botts
48. Jenner & Block
49. DICK AND BALLS, LLP
50. Fulbright & Jaworski
58. Vinson & Elkins
59. Alston & Bird
61. Sonnenchein
64. Holland & Knight
66. Bingham McCutchen
68. Foley & Lardner
69. Steptoe & Johnson
70. Hunton & Williams
71. Patton Boggs
74. Kirkpatrick Lockhart
75. Nixon Peabody
77. Bryan Cave
79. Crowell & Moring
80. Howrey
86. McGuire Woods
87. Squire Sanders
88. Arent Fox
93. Kilpatrick Stockton
95. Dickstein
96. Venable

Where the heck is the Portsmouth info?

You're a little late to the game - with the possible exception of DLA, pretty much everyone who's going to move has already done so. Market used to be two tiered with MLB/Dechert at 135, everyone else at 125, then when NY moved to 160 there was a 10k bump to both tiers (with a few exceptions).

2:01 - Cozen announced a while ago it would not raise from 125.

2:08 - I know... awesome... now I have to look through them all to pick the best young female associate... nice.

I vote for http://www.foxrothschild.com/Attorneys/Attorney.aspx?id=1192

Pretzels anyone?

Why do all the big Portsmouth firms start at 45k while the first years in their satelite offices in Suffolk make $42,250? LAT, GET ON THIS!

2:28... very nice... good smile.

Reply with info about the best young female associate.

How about this one... http://www.foxrothschild.com/Attorneys/Attorney.aspx?id=1400... yeah baby.

GeeneParmesan's the name. Triggering raises is my game.

Lat: A poll regarding most attractive Fox Rothschild associate?

This one has untapped potential, plus, she's a sleeper with a name like Beatrice... http://www.foxrothschild.com/Attorneys/Attorney.aspx?id=1446

That guy's name is Tom Paradise? Screw Philly - HE should get the bump to $160 just from that name.

We have a winner... yummy...

http://www.foxrothschild.com/Attorneys/Attorney.aspx?id=2264

2:34--

BREAK ME OFF A PIECE OF THAT!!!

No picture on this one... hmmm... http://www.foxrothschild.com/Attorneys/Attorney.aspx?id=1984

http://www.foxrothschild.com/Attorneys/Attorney.aspx?id=1934

What was she thinking? http://www.foxrothschild.com/Attorneys/Attorney.aspx?id=192

OK, so what is the deal - if any - with Drinker? With recent merger, they are now a 650 lawyer firm with offices across the country. They can't assert that they are not a national firm and therefore don't have to market. Has anyone heard anything? Are they going to 160?

Starting to think that maybe I should be working for Fox Rothschild.

Atlanta has terrible compression--and that's just for the firms that go lockstep. The real hidden shame is in the firms that don't go lockstep, where you might make as much as $10k less than your peers at other major ATL firms. Talk about compression. 5th years in ATL are making less than their 1st year counterparts at their own firm's NY office.

If we're going outside of Philly, Lansdale is clearly the place to be:
http://www.foxrothschild.com/Attorneys/Attorney.aspx?id=2228

2:39, nice, but I think fox can do better... say 2:36 for instance.

LOL: I think you mean, "What was HE thinking?"

But 1:58, Bucktown is home to the Originoo Gun Clappaz, so....

Philadelphia is like Detroit. It's been dying for years. Any city that managed to lose population during the recent urban boom is in very bad shape.

That kind of Portsmouth elitism is going to get them in serious trouble. Lat, you've gotta call them out on these pages, or they won't budge!

2:42: Great call

2:42... I concur counsel.

I don't see how MLB and Dechert will be able to justify staying at 145K in their Philadelphia offices. They realistically can't stay at 145K when they pay 160K in many of their other offices, and when so many other firms have gone to 160K. It's not enough to say there is a better cost of living in Philadelphia. 145K v. 160K sends a message about the kind of law firms they are, the kinds of law school graduates they expect to recruit, and whether they can go head-to-head with other firms in other cities. And many cities with similar or lower costs of living (Chicago, cities in Texas), now pay 160K, without any clear relationship to cost of living. Second, one wonders what happens to morale when MLB and Dechert pay 160K in other cities but not 160K in their very large home offices.

Why don't they put thumbnails on Fox's website? It would make this so much easier.

There's more than a few that I think would look good in something besides teacher shoes... or maybe just teacher shoes.

What do the associates at MLB in Philly think? Do they like the firm? Do they feel justly compensated? How is morale?

2:58--

More importantly, are MLB Philly associates as hot as their Fox Rothschild counterparts?

Maybe that fits under the "morale" category.

The clock keeps ticking...

Continuing CA List of Shame:

1) Thelen Reid*
2) Reed Smith
3) Bingham
4) Perkins Coie
5) Bryan Cave
6) Townsend*
7) Baker & McKenzie
8) Schiff
9) Seyfarth Shaw
10) Sonnenschein
11) Foley
12) Greenberg Traurig
13) Holland & Knight

* denotes CA-based firm

3:01 ... MLB Philly is a haggard looking bunch... http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/team/roster_active.jsp?c_id=phi

Ok, Lattie ... now let's talk about a "smaller" legal market with a future. MIAMI.

LOL--That's great.

I'd say that things don't look a lot better at Morgan Lewis, but there are a few all-stars on that roster, too. Thumbnails, but no full-length photos.

Lat: Make sure you hit Seattle and San Diego soon

What about Seattle? All these firms with offices in Seattle are raising in every city except their Seattle offices. Seattle should be next Lat. Even if it is an over-saturated legal backwater.

Compression is RETARDED in PHL. I'm a 5th year, our firm pays $125 to 1st years, and I make $130! For those counting at home, that's a raise of less than 1% a year. Lest you say I suck at law and am not getting the same raise as my peers in the firm, I think that's about average for my class. (Though I may suck, I've always gotten very good reviews, and I'm a lateral -- so if I do suck, my firm probably doesn't know it yet).

+10 pts to whomever quoted The Roots above. Your own nana keep a gat under the matress.

3:10 - Good tip on the thumbnailed photos... here are some subjects for consideration...

http://www.morganlewis.com/index.cfm/bnodeID/3e193e29-c276-41af-b509-c6a073ab3da2/personID/507e7829-0ae2-4cce-b7ce-369fcb9bcd33/fuseaction/people.viewBio

http://www.morganlewis.com/index.cfm/bnodeID/3e193e29-c276-41af-b509-c6a073ab3da2/personID/c3ba66c3-7c8b-43f9-b049-4aec2ca734b9/fuseaction/people.viewBio

http://www.morganlewis.com/index.cfm/bnodeID/3e193e29-c276-41af-b509-c6a073ab3da2/personID/58c4a013-2756-4a12-a5a8-6cdfcf96287f/fuseaction/people.viewBio

Really like this one...

http://www.morganlewis.com/index.cfm/bnodeID/3e193e29-c276-41af-b509-c6a073ab3da2/personID/23100e02-daa8-4227-96a5-539c61e38a02/fuseaction/people.viewBio

What big eyes you have my dear...

http://www.morganlewis.com/index.cfm/bnodeID/3e193e29-c276-41af-b509-c6a073ab3da2/personID/c1593e70-5699-4361-a005-18d40395f0d0/fuseaction/people.viewBio

I bet she knows how to party...

http://www.morganlewis.com/index.cfm/bnodeID/3e193e29-c276-41af-b509-c6a073ab3da2/personID/6a1cf6f3-0775-4255-b9fd-6144c21008db/fuseaction/people.viewBio

Hmmm... thoughts?

http://www.morganlewis.com/index.cfm/bnodeID/3e193e29-c276-41af-b509-c6a073ab3da2/personID/03ed5615-f8c6-49ac-b681-4e011eb34abd/fuseaction/people.viewBio

What did they tell this girl the photo was for?

http://www.morganlewis.com/index.cfm/bnodeID/3e193e29-c276-41af-b509-c6a073ab3da2/personID/e1ebe807-c62c-4ccb-9a90-9879c0f148ab/fuseaction/people.viewBio

Hmmm...

http://www.morganlewis.com/index.cfm/bnodeID/3e193e29-c276-41af-b509-c6a073ab3da2/personID/836e2443-f271-4d20-a106-e9858fa40211/fuseaction/people.viewBio

2:44 - I grew up near Detroit and now live in Philly. Very different places. Philly is hoppin.' Tons of fancy new apt. buildings going up and the population is on the rise. True, lots of guns, fat people, and corrupt mayors (and now casinos) in both places, but you can't beat downtown Philly. Great place to live and work. Lawyers have lives here, too.

2:44:
If you are counting cities losing population, count DC, Boston and Chicago along with Phila.
Indeed, looks like NYC lost people from '04 to '05...

http://www.census.gov/popest/cities/SUB-EST2005.html

people comparing Philly to Detroit are just plain stupid

Atlanta tops out at 180/5k. Atlanta firms fix the compression not just the starting salary.

2:03 - Why, so you can pay an insane amount for housing and almost as much to park your car as you might for an apartment in Philly? I went the other way, NY to Phila, and was able to increase my standard of living enormously. $145 in Philly is without question better than $160 in NY. And you might even have enough money left after housing to take a nice vacation.

And 2:05 - you obviously don't know much about Phila food. The PA Dutch country, home of the shoofly pie, is more than an hour away.

According to Infirmation, the compression at Morgan Lewis is much worse than at Dechert.

http://www.infirmation.com/shared/lss/?state=PA

The Dechert figures are accurate. What about the MLB figures?

Wow, Fox Rothschild has the cheesiest website I've ever seen.

because if you aren't at MLB or Dechert you won't be making 145 (maybe there are 2 other firms at that point). Also, there are more opportunities in NYC. Dechert and MLB aren't big fish up here, they're just 2 of many firms doing good work with good clients.

I'm still glad I left philadelphia for NYC.

4:41 - I can respect that. As a legal market Philly is no doubt lacking, but the city is strong in many areas and there are some really brilliant lawyers doing excellent work here, while also enjoying life. Great judges in both the EDPa and 3d Cir. as well.

I'm not knocking the culture, judges, lifestyle, etc. I actually miss wawa. I'm just saying that there are more opportunities, particularly on the transactional side, in NY because MLB and Dechert don't dominate up here like they do in Philadelphia.

Hours in Philly are lower than NYC - and harder to scare associates into conforming.
Rumor is that MLB sent around a memo last Labor Day complaining how few associates were in the office over the weekend. There were no mass firings afterwards.

All-in-all, it is probably better to be a 6, 7 or 8 year in NYC. But better to be a 1, 2, 3 or 4 in Philly.

Yeah man, Wawa raises QOL at least 10k...seriously

Any word on Woodcock Washburn?

Everyone who has never been to Philly thinks it sucks. Everyone who's lived here loves it. On the mid-atlantic quality of life scale, it beats DC, NY, Baltimore hands down. The legal work may not be as exciting as in NYC, and the compression may suck, but you can get $2 lagers!

In NY wawa would probably deliver to your apartment. Friggin McDonald's has delivery service up here.

The QOL jokes about Philly used to be true, back in the days when Mayor Wilson Goode has his own air force and bombed MOVE headquarters in West Philly, but they're not true anymore. Center City is actually quite nice these days.

I concur 5:29. People who live in Philly never leave b/c they like it that much. That means it's a pretty provincial town full of people with atty-tude, but that's a good thing in my mind. Anyway, it's before 6 and I'm leaving the office. That wouldn't happen in NYC.

Having work in both, NYC and Philly are two completely different places. Not sure I would have moved back to Philly if I was not about to get married. No knock on Philly, I love being back here and love the condo I could never have thought about buying in NYC, but you cannot really compare nightlife, resturants, etc.

Now, DC and Baltimore thats another story entirely.

"Rumor is that MLB sent around a memo last Labor Day complaining how few associates were in the office over the weekend. There were no mass firings afterwards." Hard to imagine this could ever be true. This would be a crazy thing for them to do.

I heard a story about how MLB manacled a 6 year old malaysian boy to a desk and forced him to make sneakers over labor day weekend.... wait a minute, that may have been Nike.

How come it's so hard to get salary info on mid-level associates from MLB? It's pretty hard to get info on Dechert as well but G-Love commented that the info on Infirmation is accurate. I can't believe the MLB info on Infirmation is accurte because it's so much less than Dechert.

7:19

The salary structure at MLB is the same as Dechert.

Does anyone know what Fox Rothschild is starting at?

fox rothschild is starting at shite and staying at shite.

BTW, besides the fact that we get screwed as mid-level's on salaries, our bonuses really suck (though I heard that the bonuses at MLB Princeton are better for mid-levels).
And 1st thorugh 3rd years bonuses are to laugh at.

This is the salary structure at Dechert and Morgan, except that 2nd years at Morgan make 150K not 152.5K.

Class Year 2007 Salary
1st Year $145,000
2nd Year $152,500
3rd Year $160,000
4th Year $170,000
5th Year $180,000
6th Year $190,000
7th Year $200,000
8th Year $210,000

Does anyone know what the quality of life is like at Drinker or Pepper, especially as compared to QOL at Drinker and Pepper's salary peers MLB and Dechert?

Wow, 10:12, so you work both categories at MLB pretty well, then, don't you?

Reed Smith raised now, too. What about the other firms in Philadelphia? Does anyone have any inside information?

reed smith is fo' suckas, yo!

Person:
Best QOL is Pepper. Fewer jerks, lower hours. Next is Drinker, at least in Philly office.
Next is Dechert. One first year had enough free time to do his own work on his condo renovation.
Last is MLB.

agreed re: pepper and drinker. generally pretty happy associates.

Drinker salaries 2007

1st Year $145,000
2nd Year $147,500
3rd Year $152,500
4th Year $160,000
5th Year $167,500
6th Year $175,000
7th Year $185,000 (estimated)
8th Year $195,000 (estimated)

I am a well liked partner at Schnader in Philly and I have never made $200,000. The compression is out of control. With bonuses we are taliking less than a $75,000 spread from first year associates to lower tier partners.

I am a well liked partner at Schnader in Philly and I have never made $200,000. The compression is out of control. With bonuses we are taliking less than a $75,000 spread from first year associates to lower tier partners.