First!

Third!

(Guess I wasn't first. I thought I was, but I wasn't.)

White & Case pays New York salaries in Miami.

If Greenberg raised in Miami, did they match in LA and Chicago too?

Latino Girls With Asian Guys

11:38: The White & Case NALP form form for Miami still says $135K. When did they raise to $160K?

White & Case does NOT pay New York salaries in Miami. Only Weil and Boies do.

Miami, outside of Weil and Boies, also suffers from awful compression, from what I've heard. Does anyone have a full scale for Greenburg/W&C/H&K, etc.?

What is the deal with hours in Miami? I have heard that Holland Knight, Greenberg, White & Case, and Weil are all sweat shops, but what does that mean? New York hours? 2200? 2400? Are there any good local firms, that have a more reasonable hours requirement but also pay well (110-130k)?

Row faster, slaves!

Wipers?

Can someone ban or smack the idiot who keeps talking about girls with asian guys. it's so idiotic. are you that jealous of asians?

11:56 - I always assumed that guy was asian himself...

I assume he is asian.

Can we get Minneapolis and St. Paul reviewed?

12:01 - regardless, it's so dumb. The guy obviously gets off on posting only that on probably every post here.

Pittsburgh next, please! (You already did Cleveland, it's only fair.)

Yes, I agree that it is idiotic that someone would get off just by posting the same thing on every thread. Ban him!!!

White & Case, Miami has refused to match both the salaray structure and the clerkship bonus structure of its other U.S. offices (NY, DC, LA, & Palo Alto). Real Estate and cost of living in Miami is out of control.

Meanwhile, Hunton, Weil, Boies, and Greenberg all pay more. As for hours, they are not NY hours but they are not government hours either.

I'm being told that W&C in Miami actualy HAS agreed to match the rest of the firm's offices at 160K Can anyone confirm this?

We agree with Ham Sandwich.

Sincerely,

NY to 190
Car Wash
Number 1 in Teamocil
CA List of Shame
Everyone from Jenner

12:03, what an astute observation that is. I always thought he got no satisfaction out of it, as if it were a chore to him. Your explanation is so much more logical.

Lighten up, people. The WGWAG guy's posts are more meaningful than half of what you Summers pretending to be lawyers write anyway.

Preach on, perv. Preach on.

More info on hours in Miami please.

Damn I'm so tired of this. These posts are such a chore. OK, one more time, with feeling:

WGWAG is asian penis in white women forever, YEAH!!!

Agreed, Miami is the proof that pay is not tied to COL. So, what is it tied to?

Is the pay differential because there is simply less work in MIA for the firms than somewhere like, say Chicago? Not saying less work for each individual associate, but less overall business.

Lat - post about the recent Hogan raise for lower hours track.

Cost of living in Miami is rapidly declining though. The real estate market there is in full meltdown, and all those downtown condos sitting empty now will go for pennies on the dollar in no time.

You can pry my money from my cold, dead hands.

the cost of living is actually lower in Miami than it is in Chicago. Not all of Miami is as expensive as South Beach.

There are a lot of speedos on south beach.

Housing costs (particularly the kind of swank condos that a young associate might want) have started falling, and they'll only fall more.

BigLaw life and compensation in Miami varies a lot. From speaking to people at most of these firms, hours in Miami vary: some places/practice groups are NY-esque, some are MUCH more laid back. Also, from what I gather, associate pay in Miami is much more sensitive to the market because a higher proportion of the clients in Miami are individuals and closely-held entities (read: people who care about how much they pay their lawyers).

I think compression is pretty bad in general.

It is bad for associates to make enough to afford a house.

Portnoy and Sandman are misunderstood.

I was recently informed by a headhunter that White&Case Miami was paying NY rates.

I think there needs to be an understanding that, when comparing COL, we are looking at the most expensive areas in a city. Just as you can't compare Manhattan to the Chicago burbs, you can't compare Chicago's downtown neighborhoods to anywhere in Miami but SB.

Miami is great if you speak Spanish and don't mind living among rude, classless, immigrants with a wharped sense of entitlement... Capital of the Third World baby!!!

Oh, and good luck making partner these days if your name doesn't end in a vowel... a "z" will be especially helpful.

At least one of these is a Miami firm, no?

CA List of Shame:

1) Thelen Reid
2) Perkins Coie
3) Bryan Cave
4) Baker & McKenzie
5) Seyfarth Shaw
6) Foley Lardner
7) Greenberg Traurig
8) Holland & Knight
9) Nixon Peabody

miami is great if you like speedos.

1:20- no b.s. the best post I have read in months!

12:22 - why is the "YEAH!" always thrown in there?

SPEEDOS!

Miami is the best PR scam running. Anyone who has been there will tell you that Miami, as a whole (i.e., not just South Beach), is a complete shithole. Nothing but concrete, cars, spanish-speaking illegals. And South Beach ain't all that either, unless you like tank-tops, gold teeth, crime, and rap music.

All in all, a lovely place...

miami is like LA, but in Florida. if you don't like one, you won't like the other

1:52 - you are a bigot.

Miami also has lots of speedos.

has the jones day chicago pay raise been confirmed???

How can you not say "YEAH!" when you are contemplating beautiful eastern member in western lady? I say:
YEAH! Forever! Give me WGWAG or give me death!

2:07 - the truth hurts.

What: the truth about the speedos?

Nobody has reported that W&C was paying $160 in Miami.

"z" isn't a vowel, it's a consonant. I bet the immigrants could have pointed that out for you. I bet they also know how to spell "warped."

Lat - why haven't you done Pennsylvania yet? Philadelphia is clearly a large legal market. Also, Pittsburgh is far ahead of Cleveland, which has already garnered much attention.

Se habla lick my balls

Jenner is opening a Miami office because in the long term it'd be cheaper than to raise Chicago rates to $160. You heard it here first. And associates are getting buyouts like with Bingham.

Capital of the Third World, baby!!!

1:52/2:07:

I love the anti-hispanic racism that seems to thrive in Miami. If you're of German, Irish, Jewish, Polish, Italian, Asian or anything-besides-English descent, morons were saying the EXACT same things about how your great-grandparents were a bunch of criminals who were ruining the country.

I say: embrace the speedos.

Sorry Lat - just saw that you already did Philadelphia. But what about Pittsburgh? PITTSBURGH NEED ATTENTION!! WE ARE WAY UNDERPAID!!!

speedo summer 2007

2:36 - go live there for 3 yrs. and then lets talk. Or maybe you're a Miami hispanic who likes the fact that South Florida is now a foriegn country... the inmates now run tha assylum and they're running it into the ground.

Miami is a dump, over-run with crime, its city government is completely corrupt, and has a public school system that's one of the worst in the entire country.

Yea, the invasion of Spanish-speaking illegals have done wonders for the place! Nicely done!

Jenner already tried the Miami office in the early 90's. They didnt bill enough hours.. What is going on in Chicago?

WGWAG, car wash, et al, are not nearly as annoying as the people who like to hear themselves talk so much that they constantly post "can someone ban so and so" or "Lat, this post on Ohio that I just willingly clicked on and read is so stupid and unimportant b/c it's not about NY." I'm sorry, if you are looking at ATL all day, you're really not too busy to skim another WGWAG post or so intellectually superior that you need to comment on other posts being dumb.

2:55:

I have lived in Miami, and I'm coming back (permanently) in July. And I'm about as non-hispanic as you can get.

Yeah, it's kind of a dump. But it's not worse than plenty of other U.S. cities that don't have huge hispanic communities, and I don't know that it has declined any more rapidly than anywhere else.

Maybe you're just pissed because half the legal work in Miami revolves around Latin America. If so, try imagining how LITTLE work there would be in Miami without all the Latin American deals going on & investment from Latin America. I don't know much Spanish, but I do know what "nada" means.

2:55 - don't work there so I wouldn't know.

I like how over-educated, over-priveleged assholes who are busy checking to see how much first-year associate salaries have increased care to comment on the problems that plague Miami.

How about you stop being racist and maybe start doing something about it? Or maybe you're too busy worrying about how much you get paid to give a shit?

Miami Native:

You assume people discussing Miami have never lived there or ever spent a significant amount of time there. I have lived there and the discussion of the "problems that plague Miami" are right on point.

I wonder if the people who are making fun of immigrants in Miami are the same ones who make fun of Southerners for being backwards and racist on all those posts.

3:18:

I assume nothing. Only those who have lived in Miami can appreciate the problems that plague Miami. But there are constructive ways to address them that don't involve racist comments and a defeatist attitude, especially by those who don't have to actually deal with those problems.

People who have lived in Miami and make enough money to not have to take the awful mass-transit there, do not fear being unfairly harrassed by the police, and will never have to worry about their real property being confiscated by the local government for re-development, have no right to complain about how awful Miami is.

So calling hispanics in Miami Spanish-speaking, corrupt, rude, ect. makes one a bigot. Isn't labeling all Southerners as backwards and racist also being a bigot?

3:26, that was my point. I'm not sure if you were responding to my post or not.

Miami Native:

I make plenty of money in Miami and have every right to complain.

Miami Native:

See, I agreed with you up until this post. Now you're starting to get a little reverse-racist. Just because you have it worse than someone else doesn't mean they don't have problems. By your logic, you shouldn't be able to complain about anything in Miami... because you don't live in Darfur.

3:36:

Thanks for the understanding ear, but:

1) I never said I had it worse off than anyone posting on this page. I'm pointing out that the people who are complaining about all the problems in Miami (real or imagined) are doing so in a racist manner and are not addressing the problems in a constructive manner.

2) Your Darfur comparison is not analagous. I'd get into further details, honestly, but I'm busy. I think it's enough to say you can't make worrying about how much your six figure salary is going to increase as compared to similarly situated professionals in other cities relative to worrying about racial profiling or having to take the bus wherever you go.

Hate ME.

Miami Native:

Yeah, I agree with your basic point.

But just as there are obvious differences between Darfur & occaisionally unfair (but still high) associate pay, there are also obvious differences between Darfur and having to take the bus.

And you did say that some people have "no right to complain." If they should shut up and be proactive (not a bad idea), that should apply to everyone.

Yeah, it's a small point. But as much as it bugs me to hear people complain, it really bugs me to hear people say that only they can do it.

so is greenberg at $160k in LA and Chicago, or what?

They have to take the bus? Oh, the humanity!

4:07, you have done well, my young apprentice.

4:42, see 1:30. GT is still on the CA List of Shame, which means they are probably still on the Chicago List of Shame as well.

Do San Diego Please.

4:53 - i was wondering if that might have bee oversight, or lack of reporting on what greenberg did in those markets

5:16 - generally when there is oversight, someone is incredibly quick to correct it.

Speaking of which, is Schiff Hardin still on the CA List of Shame? There were conflicting answers.

King & Spalding just raised to 160k in DC . . .

5:44 - memo?

What a bunch of jealous assholes complaining about Miami. Truly one of the best cities to live in in the US.

Would also like to see a memo about the pay raise for the lower hours Hogan track mentioned by 12:35.

5:51. . . I'm only relaying what I was told by an associate in the K&S DC office today. Sorry, no memo from me.

Being at a firm possibly considering a dual-track system, would be interested in the Hogan memo as well, as 5:57 mentioned.

Anybody know anything about Tampa vs. Miami. Specifically, why salaries in Tampa are about 40K lower than in Miami. Any ideas about the type of work in Tampa versus Miami. Any comments about Tampa will be greatly appreciated.

6:37,

Salaries are about 40K lower in Tampa than in Miami because Tampa sucks. The only sophisticated legal markets in the south are in Atlanta and Miami. The rest is a vast legal and cutural wasteland.

I'm going to Miami.

7:47, nice try:

a) Miami is not part of the South.
b) Charlotte with its banking work has plenty of sophisticated work.

Focus people. Sad to say, but Miami is a large city with a third-tier pay scale. Charlotte associates at "local" shops are making $130 and $145. For W&C to pay $135 in Miami is a crime. I'm sure the associates are being billed at the "Miami" rate and not the "NY"... right. Arbitrage anyone? The only firms paying big money are Weil and Boies. Other than some Miami mama's-boy, what Top 10 grad would take a $35K slice in pay and live where a decent house is over $500K (at least if you don't want to drive an hour and half from Kendall).

Are ft. l and west palm salaries at "big firms" similar to miami salaries?

despite the increase in house prices, houses in ny and dc are ridiculous and your pay per hour in fl is probably close and other than housing and insurance most everything else is still pretty afordable in fl...

obviously if money is ally you care about then live in TTTexas or nc and stfu

I hear people are still billing 2200 hours in Miami, no difference really in hours from DC and NY. Furthermore, and this is important to me, there doesn't seem to be much support for pro bono work. How else can a biglaw litigation guy (or gal) escape the documents?

"What a bunch of jealous assholes complaining about Miami. Truly one of the best cities to live in in the US."

The only problem is, Miamia its isn't the U.S anymore. It's like living in a sorted combination of Cuba/Venezuela/Puerto Rico/Columbia,etc., etc. Go to any gas station on US1 and try finding an employee who speaks English. With the exeption of a few areas (the beach, Coconut Grove, Coral Gables) you might as well be living in Puerto Rico.

Capital of the Third World, baby!!!

When I was in law school at UM, my wife (with a college degree and several years of corporate experience) got turned down for a job as a freakin' bank teller because she couldn't speak Spanish. And this was with Bank of America, not some local Banco de la Cuba. I shit you not.

Any place where people from Third World counties arrive by the thousands by floating to show on rafts and bathtubs is the place to be.

Any place where people from Third World counties arrive by the thousands by floating to shore on rafts and bathtubs is the place to be.

"despite the increase in house prices, houses in ny and dc are ridiculous and your pay per hour in fl is probably close and other than housing and insurance most everything else is still pretty afordable in fl...

obviously if money is ally you care about then live in TTTexas or nc and stfu"

English and the "shift key" seems to have escaped your education. How did you make it through law school again?

Coral Gables homes are on par with Bethesda. Unless you want to live off Calle Ocho or 150th (St. or Ave, either way you are driving in horrible traffic at any given time), you will pay a major premium. Plenty of areas around DC are in the same price range as parts of Miami. As for NYC, you can't compare the two cities if you are stuck in an office for 2200 or more hours. The only real difference is what you see out your window. At least the NY folks can afford the plane ticket and a weekend in SoBe if the partners ever let them out.

As for "other than housing and insurance", those are huge costs. A decent home (under $500K) costs more than $8K to insure. Don't forget that Miami is "sue city", so you also have high auto and health insurance costs. Medicare fraud anyone?

My point is that Miami's pay scale is in no way related to the cost of living there and is much lower than it should be. Miami is way more expensive than Atlanta and Charlotte and is on par with Chicago and DC, yet pays under all markets (or in the case of ATL, barely matches). Exit opportunities are considerably less lucrative unless you are working for "papi" or your trust fund was funded by "abuelo" after he screwed the peasants on the haciendas back in the old country.

Can somebody else confirm King & Spalding raised in DC?

There's a lot of racist garbage in the legal profession, isn't there?

Isn't there no state personal income tax in Florida? And no city tax in Miami?

That is a 9.5% difference which equals about $15k on a $160k salary. So basically you could make 145 in Miami and have it equal a NY 160k salary, if you factor in cost of living on top of that I think Miami getting paid pretty fairly. (The guy who complains about not getting a decent house for under 500k, remember that in NY you can't even get a decent 1 bedroom apartment for under 500k).

There is no city tax in DC, Atlanta or Charlotte. Who is paying $145K to a first-year in Miami? I'm sure W&C and GT are at $135k and under. The real crime is not the first-year salary (although a $25k haircut is criminal too), but the mid to senior level salaries. A third-year at Dechert in Charlotte earns $170k plus a $40k bonus for a total cash comp of $210k. What is a third-year at W&C pulling in for the same hours?

12:06: You are right, there is no state income tax, however the income tax in Illinois, is only 3%. So, New York (and maybe CA) a raping you. I just moved from CHI after 3 yrs. I went to school down here but the reason I came back is b/c of the fact that you can enjoy life OUTSIDE the office, when time permits. Yes, if you are getting paid well in New Havana, you are earning it. And don't forget the property taxes, flood, and WIND insurance. OUCH!

When you are in Miami, you are actually living in a city, as opposed to suburban sprawl in Atlanta and Charlotte.

And Miami pays better than both markets. Guess most lawyers can't do math!

11:23, are you a partner at W&C in litigation, because (a) you are not paying more than your peer firms in Charlotte and (b) you seem to miss the math.

"Miami pays better." $135 and no bonus is greater than $145 plus $30K? How about a 5th year in Charlotte earning $210 plus $50? What is Miami paying 5th years? What is a 3000 sq ft home in Coral Gables or Pinecrest? What are property taxes like? Home insurance (and wind insurance?)? And since public schools are out of the question, what is Ransom or Gulliver charging these days? I'm sure its a pittance.

Even with the NC income tax, the gap is huge.

As for suburban sprawl, what's south of 8th street? Coral Gables, Kendall, Pinecrest? No suburbs there, just pure urban paradise.