I'm so sick of fucking Jenner. I never even heard of the shit before two or three Jenner associates w/ nothing better to do (wonder why no raise) started spending all their time on here posting. Urgh

ONLY 1st years? Anyone else, and I'd say they have to be hiding some serious compression, but J&B would be the place to try to figure every class from 2 on individually.

Yet another firm with a Texas office goes to $160K. Where are all the Big Tex firms?

August 1? Did they fail to notice that it's not even July yet? Sucks for their summers.

WHO CARES ABOUT THE SUMMERS?!

Why does Jenner give their employees information in the smallest pieces possible?

Let me guess, next week we'll hear how much they will pay the 2nd years, then in mid-July we'll find out about the third years . . . and so on. Of course, all this won't be released until they have three more firmwide associate meetings to discuss the state of Jenner.

Maybe they'd be able to pay their associates more if they would just make a decision and then spend the rest of their time billing instead of debating salaries for 100's of hours.

Does anyone know what's going on at Jenner and Block? ATL has been pretty quiet on recent developments.

DC firms at 145 -- take note. You're going to have a hard time drawing quality associates. I'm currently summering at a v100 (lower half) firm in DC that's at 145, and I'm already making contacts with lawyers at firms where my friends are summering that pay 160. 145 ain't gonna cut it unless you promise me I'll be home before the sun goes down.

12:53--

It's too early for you to be such a douchbag. Tread lightly in DC: we live in a

...small town with long memories, so be sure you bullshit some good reasons to leave when you're asked why. I'm not saying don't take a better deal, just watch the swagger.

Oh, and you're not going home before the sun goes down at your firm or any firm after your summer is over. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Seems pretty obvious to me that Jenner is struggling right now. I don't care what they say, do we have any objective evidence of their financial situation that would indicate anything other than bad times? Sounds like they are just blowing a lot of smoke up our asses.

I dont think that a firm that is really struggling would be builiding a state of the art new facility. Any word on compression or info on how much they raised year each

Suk, Deeze & Nhutz to 180!

Seriously, not until August.

I really thought jenner was a better firm then that.

Yes, Jenner is bankrupt. Everyone go home now.

1:12 - might the state-of-the-art facility explain why the cash flow seems to be tight?

By my quick count, 31 of the DC Vault bottom 50 want to be viewed as top-tiered, and pay a 160 scale.

The separation is becoming very evident--the other 19 below seem perfectly willing to settle for mid-tier status.

DC Vault of Shame

40. Baker Botts
50. Fulbright & Jaworski
58. Vinson & Elkins
59. Alston & Bird
64. Holland & Knight
66. Bingham McCutchen
68. Foley & Lardner
70. Hunton & Williams
71. Patton Boggs
74. Kirkpatrick Lockhart
75. Nixon Peabody
77. Bryan Cave
79. Crowell & Moring
86. McGuire Woods
87. Squire Sanders
88. Arent Fox
91. Thelen Reid
93. Kilpatrick Stockton
95. Dickstein
96. Venable

12:37 - might be my favorite post ever. Thanks.

Someone at Jenner just took a dump. Is there going to be a post about that too? Move on, already. Geez.

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Meetz, Awschage & Yeraz just raised to AHHHHHHHH!

While I will admit the constant Jenner coverage is kind of annoying, it is interesting too -- watching the fall of what was believed to be a pretty big / good firm has been almost as fun as watching Sanjaya bomb on American Idol every night (until those SOBs kicked him off). Jenner is the Sanjaya of law firms.

2:08: "Jenner is the Sanjaya of law firms."

I love it. Of course, Sanjaya would have had to announce that he wasn't leaving the show until two months after they voted him off for that to be true. Seriously, most firms are making their salary increases RETRO, while Jenner is post-dating it? Check's in the mail...

To 1:12, building plans are made years in advance - so it may well be that increased building costs are what is helping CAUSE the financial woes, and is definitely not a sign of financial strength. It's a sign of ego and an attempt to signal prestige, something Jenner's actions seem to be losing for it by the day.

Looks like Jenner decided to find a way out of paying $160k for the first seven months of the year. In addition, salaries after first year are communicated individually. This doesn't look promising for folks over there. It appears to me that the firm wants to say that it is on the $160k scale, but not actually have to pay it. Do they think that no one will notice?

Does anyone have an updated Chicago list of shame? I heard Schiff bumped, is that true?

To 2:22:

Jenner is hoping to fool (and probably will) the less informed, less greedy law students out there. Most students that aren't at top 15-25 law schools probably don't follow this stuff closely enough to catch it (I attended a top 50 school and hardly anyone knew about this stuff).

It's quite similar to Sanjaya fooling all of the 12 year old girls into thinking he could sing.

Jenner = Sanjaya.

Good point 2:22, lat can we get info from 2-7 year associate as to what their raise was and if J & B is paying market after year one?

I have to agree with the other anti-Jenner posters. At this point, I don't care what the news is with them, I don't want to hear it. Well, maybe if Gallopoulos called an associates meeting and then took a dump on the conference table and said, "there's your bonus." But short of that, enough is enough.

can i conclude this meeting with an ass crush?

CA list of shame?

Stop it 2:41. That guy is a FUCKING DOUCHE, and we all know it.

GeeneParmesean can adjourn this meeting with an ass crush.

White Girls With Asian Guys

Jenner has never had a lock-step salary scale. They have never announced what they pay 2-7 years because it is decided on an individual basis. This is not something new. Generally, 1-3 years get market pay. I do not know if it is compressed beyond that.

Jenner has the whitest girls all over the most asian guys you've ever seen. It's FINGER-LICKIN'!!!

Jenner has 1 Dallas associate. How will BigTex be able to keep people from going there if they don't raise soon?

12:59/1:01 -- Now, now, don't be bitter just because we get to play the game.

I've got plenty of quality responses (aside from compensation) to why I'm suddenly not interested in the firm I'm summering with (who will no doubt make me an offer, I'm already sure)... I don't even have to tell the truth, just make up some story about...well, you'll hear and believe it in the interview.

DC isn't THAT small a town.

12:53, if you really think your "contacts" at other firms will really make a difference, go for it. I'm skeptical.

12:53 - You're a summer and you're starting a comment with "now, now". You're a douche. You're probably a gunner.

I promise you it doesn't matter where you go to work because arrogant prick kids like you make the worst kind of lawyers.

Just remember when you quit after 4 years of pretending to be the shit while you cry in your apartment every night, tell everyone you "burned out", not "pussed out", which is more appropriate but less likely to get you that midlaw job you'll say you took for the QOL.

3:46 -- I'm sure you're right. They're just humoring me by setting up lunch.

3:55 -- Haha. Whatever makes you feel better. But 4 years sounds about right... I'll do what I need to get by (and nothing more) for then, and then I'm taking my money and running before I become a balding douche who thinks suspenders (I'm sorry, braces) are a good idea because belts just don't work with pot-bellies. You go ahead and enjoy living the rest of your life in the firm, chief.

(I really like the idea that you're one of the senior associates or new partners at my firm. That'd be classic.)

12:53 -- You sound like such a douche.

You are probably that loser tagging along with your friends trying to "get in good" with people at bigger and better firms. Point of advice -- just because someone is nice to you in a social environment, has some drinks with you, etc, does NOT mean they will (or even can) do anything to get you a job there. And, more likely, they are probably thinking you are a douche as you try to latch on.

Get a life.

4:09 -- I hope you realize, not everyone who can "set up a lunch" can get you a job, Chief.

Moreover, associates (and partners) at firms will toss around lunches like they are candy, especially in the summer months. It's called -- they get a nice free meal. Don't let it go to your head, Chief.

4:15 -- I'd respond, but I'm about to leave for the day. Enough "work." I'll just end by saying that I'm sure you're right.

Wow. Thank god that guy's gone.

4:26 -- He's out "making contacts." He's so cool.

Mayer Brown Charlotte just raised. Salary and bonus scale:

1st Year $160,000 $30,000
2nd Year $170,000 $33,000
3rd Year $185,000 $36,000
4th Year $210,000 $40,000
5th Year $230,000 $45,000
6th Year $250,000 $50,000
7th Year $265,000 $55,000
8th Year $280,000 $55,000

I'm sure he won't get on ATL the *second* he gets home to find out what all the stupid, know-nothing lawyers on here wrote about him.

Attitudes like yours always come out eventually. I may end up interviewing you. I may even like you and recommend that you be hired. But I guarantee that an attitude like yours will come out eventually, and even in the busiest of

4:28 - I'm waiting for the ATLiens to start complaining.

...firms (such as mine) douchbags tend not to get a lot of work. It's the subtle nudge from the firm to look for a firm with a "better QOL" (love that 3:55).

As for the size of DC: the folks who are here long-term are a relatively small group, and so it's difficult to remain anonymous with them, at least within your practice area. Junior associates flow through this townlike water, but the lifers are few and they all tend to live on the same street in Arlington or send their kids to the same school in Chevy Chase. Acting like a dipshit because someone isn't paying you the extra 15k you mistakenly think you deserve as a law student with no experience is a mistake you're regret.

Oh, and you have no contacts. You are a dime a dozen until you log some hours learning a specialty.

FYI - Mayer Brown in CHARLOTTE just went to $160K...CWT, Dechert etc. surely to follow. For more information check www.infirmation.com and check the salary charts.

Man. I can't believe I'm going to say this.

I would love to be a lawyer in North Carolina.

No more bitching, I give up. Those kids in Charlotte filling in spreadsheets are clearly worth more than me.

Guys like 12:53 give other summers a bad name. We're really not all selfish schmucks, even if we would rather be paid 160,000 (who wouldn't??). So will I choose a firm that pays 160 over one that's stuck at 145? Heck yes.

Will I question the "prestige" of a firm that's not following the crowd? Absolutely, whether that's really fair or not.

4:37... seriously? Same street, same schools? I'm splitting with a DC office starting soon, so I guess I'll find out.

5:03:

I know it is hard to believe as a summer, because cities and firms seem like big black holes of people, but it's true. I'm in Chicago, and while we are definitely not all sending our kids to the same schools (though I don't doubt it in DC for a second), we all know each other within our practice areas. By your 3rd or 4th year, you see the same faces and names at every CLE event, bar function and in court over and over again.

One of the biggest mistakes that summers make (or junior associates, for that matter) is not realizing that the legal community is tight-knit, even if it seems enormous. If you learn this lessen now, you will be WAY ahead of your fellow classmembers.

I don't mean to hijack this comment board by asking newbie questions, but since there seem to be some helpful lawyers here, I have to ask... as a new associate, how stuck will I be in my practice group? I think I'm interested in real estate law, but if that changes two years in, will I be screwed (unable to lateral to another group for lack of experience, unable to start fresh with a new group for too much experience)? At the firm I'm with for the summer, once you're in a group, it seems like that's it... I don't want to ask too many questions for fear of losing an offer from the group!

Thanks in advance!
- 5:03

5:03/5:17

In most biglaw settings, once you are in a practice group, that is where you will stay. Perhaps if you were in litigation, and wanted to focus on one area of litigation, you could move more towards that area the further into your career you got. But a major change (like real estate to litigation or M&A) is incredibly difficult unless you have some kind of experience.

The lawyers I know who have made a major move like you are talking about have had to leave biglaw to do it.

5:17 -- In my experience, it depends on the firm and the groups you are interested in.

If your "group" is real estate, you could probably pick up some general corporate work (e.g., contract drafting) fairly easily. Litigation work might be less natural, but still possible (maybe try getting some through pro bono work if you can't get it otherwise).

I would just ask questions like what % of work associates do is confined solely to their respective "practice group." You can ask simple fact-finding questions such as that without sending off any alarms that you might be interested in other groups.

5:17--

I second 5:35's comment. You will be defined by your practice area, and there is significant incentive to develop a specialty. Unless you really love something specific, stick to general corporate or litigation work, then find what you like from there. Don't jump right into real estate or something regulatory like antitrust unless you're really sure. You can start out litigation and focus on antitrust later; or, you can start corporate and do more real estate. The first choice really is the corporate/litigation divide, and that (unfortunately) is your brand from day one.

(The guy who says DC's a small town)

5:03--

One last thing b/c you're coming to DC. If you get into a regulatory practice (trade, SEC, antitrust, etc.), those will all either be a bit like litigation or a bit like corporate. I'd recommend getting some more pure litigation or corporate work to go along with that regulatory expertise. Having a regulatory specialty is very sought after in DC, but you want to have the qualifications to drop into a firm's general litigation or corporate group in the future.

It's a great city. I came here for law school and thought I'd leave, but I'm still enjoying it years later.

DC Vault of Shame

40. Baker Botts
50. Fulbright & Jaworski
58. Vinson & Elkins
59. Alston & Bird
64. Holland & Knight
66. Bingham McCutchen
68. Foley & Lardner
70. Hunton & Williams
71. Patton Boggs
74. Kirkpatrick Lockhart
75. Nixon Peabody
77. Bryan Cave
79. Crowell & Moring
86. McGuire Woods
87. Squire Sanders
88. Arent Fox
91. Thelen Reid
93. Kilpatrick Stockton
95. Dickstein
96. Venable
98. Kelley Drye

DC Vault OF Shame(at 145,000)

40. Baker Botts
50. Fulbright & Jaworski
58. Vinson & Elkins
59. Alston & Bird
64. Holland & Knight
66. Bingham McCutchen
68. Foley & Lardner
70. Hunton & Williams
71. Patton Boggs
74. Kirkpatrick Lockhart
75. Nixon Peabody
77. Bryan Cave
79. Crowell & Moring
86. McGuire Woods
88. Arent Fox
93. Kilpatrick Stockton
95. Dickstein
96. Venable

Vault of Extreme Shame(at 135,000)

87. Squire Sanders

What's the procedure for getting a moratorum on the terms "douche" and "douchebag?" They're overplayed. Get new insults.

7:40 - The easiest is probably for people to quit acting like douchebags, yourself included. Douche.

I wanted to send someone the CA List of Shame and had to dig deep to find it! Where is he?

7.40 - you're a great example of a douchebag.

Why? cuz you remind us of that cranky old lady down the block.

please stop, ms. douchebag

thelen just raised in NY, CA, DC, NJ. go thelen!

10:50, actually, they raised yesterday. Individual memos started showing up on Tuesday, although there is a firm-wide memo that is protected from being printed, saved, etc.

How has no one posted the CA List of Shame recently? I haven't because I was doing depos on the east coast. Here it is, now with Thelen Reid removed if 10:50 and 1:44 are correct, which would also imply that 7:23 is correct by not having Thelen Reid as well:

Continuing CA List of Shame:

1) Perkins Coie
2) Bryan Cave
3) Baker & McKenzie
4) Foley Lardner
5) Greenberg Traurig
6) Holland & Knight
7) Nixon Peabody
8) Howrey
9) Schiff Hardin

Permanent All City List of Shame
1) Seyfarth Shaw according to multiple threads on ATL for allegedly planning not to raise.

What about Howrey? Someone said they orally announced that they might raise. Also, can someone confirm Schiff Hardin? There was a rumor they had raised, but no one has confirmed. How have Baker & McKenzie and Foley not raised yet?

Greenberg Traurig hasn't even finished raising in NY yet. You think they'll raise in CA?

1:59a - What do you mean? They raised in NY about 5 minutes after Simpson did. Which is why I am shocked they haven't raised in Chicago or CA (that we know of).

8:20/10:18 - Boy are you guys clever. Didn't expect that one at all... It's almost as if you took the most obvious idea, and did it anyway... wow, I'm impressed. And the way two of you came up with the same obvious, lame, response within just two posts, sure doesn't prove my point.

Clever, clever, clever. You guys must never lose a case being so clever.

-7:40

This is 10:58 - I didn't mean Simpson, I meant whoever announced $160k first, Sullivan (not a NYer so I forget)???

10:58/11:28, it was Simpson.

10:58, see http://www.abovethelaw.com/2007/06/more_rumors_nyc_to_190.php#comment-58262

NY List of Shame:

Greenberg Traurig

Memo to Richard Rosenbaum: It's mid-June, and I'm still waiting for the raise promised in January.

Posted by: Anonymous | June 18, 2007 11:53 AM