I vote clueless and drunk partner. If she was offended by this, she'll hate working at any law firm.

boo hoo.

What a whiny brat. Get over it -- partners don't give a shit about you, ok!!! And they certainly "ha[ve] absolutely no interest in getting to know [you]." This applies to all law students/associates, not just "minority" ones.

I've received the same reaction from law firm partners at holiday receptions while I was in law school...even though I'm a white male. I think, however, the partners' disinterest in me was that my name tag also included my second-rate law school's name. I wasn't even included in a photo op.

Well said, 9:48. What associate (minority or non-minority) has not had a weird experience with an asshole partner?

big whop

This is completely inane. The GT attorney was probably just a bit tight. He could have done the exact same thing to three white guys. And if he supposedly dislikes talking to minorities, then why did he start talking to this girl in the first place?? I seriously doubt that GT is so short of minorities in their own hallways that they are grasping for photo opps with minority law students. It just doesn't add up.

Man, if this person is getting this worked up over something like this, there is no WAY she is going to last more than a year or two at biglaw. No freaking way.

wow, this girl is retarded.

"As the evening was winding down..."

^^They could just as easily have been among the last few students there and the partner needed a picture. So, he latched on to whomever he could. Yeah, he was a jerk about it, but I wouldn't be so quick to paint GT with the bigot brush.

The only thing more stupid than this girl's cluelessness is the fact that many dumba** law students will actually not bid on Greenberg because of this.

Sure, there are drunk and clueless partners at every firm, but a firm proud of its diversity should make an effort to showcase the conscientious, welcoming folks working there. I hope that doesn't sound naive; it sounds like good business to me.

I thought the student's email was an appropriate and professional response--it's not like she's asking for damages, right? GT cocked up, not villainously in my opinion, but they cocked up, and she's pointing out the consequences of such cock-ups on their diversity rating. I don't know if I'd forward it, with it ending up posted on ATL, but then it didn't happen to me.

wait a minute... a lawyer was rude and didn't give his full attention to a 2L who happened to be a minority?!?!?! oh noes!!!! call the aclu, stat!!!! gimme a break with this crap

9:56 makes an excellent point. Although I am aware of at least two firms that suspiciously include every minority in the firm in marketing materials, would GT be so hard up for fake diversity photos that it would stage them at a recruiting reception? It doesn't make any sense to me.

This diversity crap is more trouble than its worth.

Firms never do enough to make minorities "welcome." Whiny, over educated, idealist law students slandering law firms. Stop the madness. Hire good students who you think will become good lawyers and quit trying fill in all the colors of the rainbow.

Furthermore, since when is one hyper-sentive minority's "impression" of a split second instance grounds to lable an office (or entire law firm) as "racially insensitive." Who gives a flying fuck if this moron was "offended." Get used to it.

Oh, and she went to Columbia. Can't say I'm surprised.

Sending the email was good-she was offended and they need to know who the minorities are that are going to blow everything up into a racial issue. But forwarding it to everyone like she's now got some klansman's head on her wall was stupid and immature.

This girl is obviously ignorant of how corporate diversity works. When using pictures, law firms, colleges, or corporations will always include a DIVERSE group in the picture. That means African-American, Hispanic, Caucasian, Asian people all together, not just the intended targets to INCREASE diversity. You will never just see a group of African-Americans on the cover of a pamphlet intended to project some notion of diversity. The idea of diversity only exists when all racial/ethnic groups are side-by-side.

Thus, I think her speculation, here: "A picture of a GT attorney with his arm around three law students-two African-Americans and one Latino- would look great on the cover of the firm's diversity recruitment pamphlet" is rather baseless. Face it, Katie, you're probably gonna end up somewhere around pg. 7.

"the student's email was an appropriate and professional response"

Oh really? Then how, pray tell, did it end up on Above the Law? Hmmm? Did Greenberg Traurig do a press release do you suppose?

ditto on Columbia, 10:04.

I find myself in agreement with 10:00. If GT wanted to recruit minority letting clueless partners near the reception was a bad idea.

If there were no other partners other than the clueless partner, well then it sounds like GT needs to shift their culture.

This girl is way, way too hypersensitive. And clueless, if she thinks a lot of partners aren't flat out weird. Any law firm (regardless of size) is not the place for her.

Wow, she seems like a real tiger. I want her handling my company's negotiations on a billion dollar deal or defending our litigation.

ok, bitterboys, think you're overdoing it in your criticism of latina law student. this was a recruiting event, not work. the partner should have been on best behavior. It's one thing if you're gonna be regular joe-shmoe firm, but if you're gonna play the politically correct card, you deserved a bitch slap for this sort of behavior.

Jesus, is this an issue? I am a senior associate at a big firm and I get treated like this by people who work on the same floor as me.

10:00, I see your point, but many firms would have to hide a large percentage of their partners away in order to "showcase the conscientious, welcoming folks working there." You are right that it would be good business sense for a firm to make a good impression, but I haven't seen many firms that operate like a good business in terms of keeping egomaniacs in check. I would argue that it is not good business sense to write an email like this and encourage others to forward it on. I'm sure Katie Fernandez won't have any more trouble getting an offer than Aquagirl, et al, but even if she was understandably offended, emailing the firm's recruiting director AND broadcasting her email to others seems a bit over the top to me. Not very discreet.

Don't bite the hand that feeds you. There is no big law firm that is interested in diversity for diversity's sake, just as no law student is interested in working for a big law firm for its often dreadful work. Get real.

Why would anyone have a problem with this girl's email? She had a bad interaction, she contacted the appropriate people involved (she was at a recruiting event remember), and she told them what her issue was.

She isn't claiming any racial victory. She didn't say this person was a bigot and she wants damages. She wrote a very professional complaint.

Why doesn't GT deserve her comments when they invited her there to entice her (and other minority candidates) to come work for them?

10:16-

the problem isn't really her complaint (which i do think is whiny). the real problem is that she made it such a big deal publicly.

I see no proof that this was racially motivated. As has been noted, the partner could just as easily have needed a picture at the end of the evening, and those three were available. I see NOTHING to even indicate this was motivated based on race; while this student might have had her suspicions--and maybe rightly so--you do not go throwing mud on a law firm's reputation based on such speculation. I would say GT would have a decent case for libel based on what they're going to suffer due to this one person's unfounded accusation.

She forwarded it to her circle of friends. It obviously made the rounds of minority student groups (BLSA is mentioned and she's not black) which is understandable. Once it was out in enough hands, it was only a matter of time before the ATL muckrackers (I love you guys) got a hold of it. She didn't send it here.

GT is just suffering the market consequences of their decision to allow this partner to participate in a minority recruiting event. This wasn't a deposition, it was a minority recruiting event.

BTW, Katie will also have to suffer the market consequences of her decision to broadcast this publicly.

It merits observation that these three minority summers had congregated together and were apparently self-segregating themselves until the partner integrated their little clique. Whose to say the partner was uncomfortable trying to break up the self-segregation. Maybe he tried to throw a little humor on the situation to ease tensions.

In any event, if the best this girl can do out of Columbia law school is GT, she's got bigger problems.

The vast majority of you seem to have a problem because
1. there are many asshole partners
2. everyone has a bad experience with an asshole partner at some point
Fair enough, but try to think outside your box. Partners are assholes to associates when it relates to the work the associate is doing. Here, the partner was an asshole to the columbia student because of her race (please, how naive do you have to be to think he took this photo with these students because the evening was winding down and they were the few minority students left?) So she is justified in feeling more offended that the average joe associate *that is already working for the partner and gets treated like shit because of his work product*
She was a at a firm *recruiting* event, she was treated like shit, and all of it because of her race. She has every right to be furious over it.

She says in her e-mail "Please feel free to pass it along..."

10:26--

You argument assumes the very point that is being debated here -- whether she was treated poorly because of her race.

I don't think she has a right to be furious 10:26, because nothing THAT BAD happened to her. I do think she has a right to be annoyed, and its perfectly understandable why she would want to tell others about that. This was an event by GT to recruit minorities.

10:21 and 10:25 - silly.

Ms. Fernandez:

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Don't take advtantage of minority-recruitment efforts (i.e., affirmative action) and the fact that clients think firms "SHOULD" want diversity, and then turn around and complain when a partner is interested in you, not as a person, but rather as a chance to promote the firm's image as "minority friendly."

Just be the best damn law student you can be, and complain when you are NOT offered a job because of your ethnicity.

But if your ethnicity is what gets you the job, then stop complaining when the partner wants a picture with you. That's the game you're playing. Just be honest about it.

Oh, the outrage!!!! A partner at a cocktail reception acted strange and then posed for a picture with 3 minority candidates!!!! I'm so offended!!!

All this diveristy shit is circular reasoning. We want diversity....but don't want it faked....we want people to WANT diversity.... so, we force diveristy down their throats.... hoping to change hearts & minds.... then we get mad when diveristy is forced and faked.....

Un-fucking believeable.

As John Roberts recently pointed out, to stop racism, we need to stop making decisions based on race. That includes "foced" diversity initiatives.

Oh, the outrage!!!! A partner at a cocktail reception acted strange and then posed for a picture with 3 minority candidates!!!! I'm so offended!!!

All this diveristy shit is circular reasoning. We want diversity....but don't want it faked....we want people to WANT diversity.... so, we force diveristy down their throats.... hoping to change hearts & minds.... then we get mad when diveristy is forced and faked.....

Un-fucking believeable.

As John Roberts recently pointed out, to stop racism, we need to stop making decisions based on race. That includes "forced" diversity initiatives.

10:32 - How did we get from voluntary/self-interested minority recruitment to affirmative action?

talk about shooting yourself in the foot...

10:33 - you're showing alot more outrage than she did. You should re-read her email. She was insulted, but not outraged.

this student is a total douchenozzle. what every partner wants and has time for is to get to know every 2l they meet on campus.
what a little self entitled coont. i hope she gets scabies.

10:35 -- honestly, is there a difference?

My law firms hires plenty of "under qualified" minorities in an effort to "diversify." And, from what I understand, most major law firms now do too.

I think that Katie's reaction was hypersensitive and over the top. However, some of the posters seem to assume that this was a minority recruiting reception and that Katie "got what she deserved" by showing up. Lat's description indicates that the reception was for Columbia students, not specifically a minority recruiting event. Although I think that Katie made a bad choice by encouraging her "circle of friends" to pass this story on, I think it is equally over the top for people to jump on this as an opportunity to bash diversity initiatives.

hopefully this whiny, worthless twatwaffle will be blackballed by biglaw. someone who makes such a huge deal out of such a nothing will undoubtedly exercise poor judgment for the clients and make life hell for the mids and seniors she works for with her prima donna attitude. no doubt she will also loathe the profession in general as well, so its a win win.

10:39 - yes. One is driven by policy/legislation and the other is driven by (presumably) clients and business decisions. Even if you're sympathetic to the former its much easier to defend the latter.

10:43 - good points, but the other students she was with were from Cornell. I think this was about diversity, and (for me) that heightens the likely consequences for GT when their partner behaves like he did.

How did Katie Fernandez get into Columbia Law (oh, wait, bad question...)? She can't write!

All tipsy rude white guys in their 40's must be racists. Ya that's it.

Waaaaahhhhhhhh. What a baby.

The "consequences for GT when their partner behaves like he did..." Doing what, acting odd and posing for a picture with some minority law students? Oh the humanity!!!

Since it was a diversity recruiting event it seems unlikely that the complaining student and her two friends were the only candidates for a "minority photo-op". She seems very much oversensitive.

Look, I think this woman's reaction was completely rational. If you read the first few sentences of her email, it sounds like until this partner came around, she had had uneventful interactions with the rest of the GT lawyers at the event. Her opinion of the firm changed based on a specific occurrence at a recruiting event, offended enough that she will no longer be applying to that firm. She could have simply made her decision not to apply and then bad-mouthed the firm around her campus, without ever informing the recruitment person about what happened. By writing this letter, she clearly outlined what had happened and why this changed her opinion of the firm, and gave the recruiter an opportunity to respond, or at least to figure out who that partner is and to make sure that he doesn't go to these events in the future. Her email doesn't sound all outraged and indignant to me at all, and it's not like she's asking for anything from GT. She's just telling them what happened. Calm down with all the anti-diversity crap and the personal attacks. This sounds far less whiny to me than the posting here about how $160K is just not enough money.

I am a Latina attorney working and hav been working at big-law for several years now. I am sick and tired of "diverse" students using any excuse to bring up the race card. The way to get more minorities in the law firm environment is for each of us as individuals to prove to everyone that we are damn good at what we do. Having a chip on your shoulder about being Latina, or black, or whatever, will only lead to unhappiness. To Katie at Columbia - I suggest you stop looking for opportunities to cry fowl on diverse efforts and put your nose to the grindstone instead. I am not at GT but I do know from experience that they are very committed to diversity.

It wasn't a diversity event. It was an event for GT in DC. They held several all throughout the country on the same day. Law students from all different schools could attend.

This e-mail is also misleading:

"He called the photographer over and said, 'Hey, come take a picture of us!' A picture of a GT attorney with his arm around three law students- two African-Americans and one Latino- would look great on the cover of the firm's diversity recruitment pamphlet. 'Smile,' he said, and those words are still echoing in my ear."

OK, first off, the "echoing in the ear" bit's a tad melodramatic, dontcha think? And then, the way she has placed the quotation marks makes it seem like it's all the GT attorney speaking from "Hey" to "Smile." Aside from the quotation marks, how about the mention of the "words" still echoing, etc.? "Smile" is just one word, making the imputation complete that the prior statement (hence, words, plural) is also directly attributable to the GT attorney. Libel, I tell you!

To tell the truth all of Columbia's minority groups are hyper sensitive about this kind of thing, and yes sadly people at Columbia will not bid GT now. The good thing is that this weeds out the kind of crap law student that any good firm should be glad not to have apply. If ATL got wind of all of these types of e-mails that get floated around the school, there would be a post like this every week.

Boo fucking hooo. There are 500 other "minority" candidates who will gladly take whatever job offer this dumb bitch turns up her nose at.

this was a recruiting event, no excuse for a partner or senior associate not to be on his best behavior.

As a target of the recruiting event, it's not uncalled for for her to send a complaint to GT's recruiter, and if she so pleases, forward it around. She's not making overboard accusations of racial prejudice or insensitivity, she's simply documenting the facts.

All you smart accomplished people who dismiss her complaint because "you have been treated worse" at your jobs, miss the point that it's not cool to feel that a firm is using you to further its claims of diversity commitment. She's not even an employee of the firm!! What gives this partner the right to be such a punk to her, get her pic, and then have GT exploit her image using it for internal or external communications? The fact that she got free drinks and finger food?

Again, you just don't get it. And the arrogant smugness with which you dismiss this woman as a clueless whiny minority is repulsive.

But then again, I'm getting used to Lat's commenters being a bunch of pricks.

As a minority lawyer at a big firm, this woman is overly sensitive and making something out of what is probably nothing.

Wait till she goes to some other firm, and someone mistakes her for a secretary or the mail room person. Would love to see her reaction then.

10:55(2) - speaking of "crying fowl [sic]", i'm about to go eat me some right now.

I have news for you, honey... if you don't like being a diversity prop at a student reception, you'll like it even less when you get hired for your name and skin color. You were probably a prop to Columbia Law School and whatever undergraduate institution you attended as well. That is the way quotas work in our messed up society. Just say "thank you" for your free biglaw check and smile for the camera while everybody else works their butt off to keep you getting paid.

"Again, you just don't get it. And the arrogant smugness ... "

hahahaha. oh mercy. do I even need to say it?

I don't have time to do a exhaustive analysis, but a quick look at NALP shows that almost all of GT's hispanic attorneys are in the Miami office. I have no idea if GT really is minority friendly/unfriendly, but I don't think they should get much credit for having a diverse workforce when the vast majority of their "minority" attorneys work in Miami, where they are the "majority".

God forbid there be ONE insensitive idiot at a firm event in a firm of over 1600 attorneys. This girl needs to get a clue.

10:55 - Latin Attorney

Learn how to spell "foul" before asking us Latino/as to "put our noses to the grindstone" so we can prove to whites that not all brown people are stupid.

So I went to a recruiting event at biglaw a few nights ago. As the evening was winding down, a partner came over to me and started asking me questions. He then called a photographer over and made me hold my club foot up for the camera while asking me to wear a t-shirt that said "biglaw believes hiring mentally challenged people is the way to success". Do you think he was being insensitive?

Only thing I want to know -- do they pay $160k in CA, Chicago, and DC yet?

Well, the good news is that her name is out so hopefully she is unemployable. Working with someone like that is just begging for the day you make some innocuous comment that rubs her the wrong way for some unknown reason.

God forbid the #1 diversity firm would want to take a picture with ... gasp ... minorities!

What will she be equally offended when she's the token black lawyer on her hall and sent to interview at Howard, NC Central, and every Black Law Student Job Fair in the U.S.?

There is an epidemic of closet racism. The comments that some of you have written just emphasize the problem that people have with race without even realizing it. The large number of responses insulting this woman, who acted professionally in this situation, clearly show that many of you have no idea about what it's like being a minority associate at a law firm. On a regular basis, minority associates at law firms get mistaken for secretaries by partners, clients, and other associates. Then, there are the idiots (like some of you on this board) who assume that associates who are minorities in law firms got there without being qualified to do so and only got in the door because of their race. All in all, those of you who are white have no idea what the challenges are like, but assume that you have the same associate experience as minority associates.

In response to "Get over it,": People like you, who are willing to take the crap that people dish out while ignoring the unfairness of certain situations, are the people who encourage the closet racists who behave poorly and keep the status quo the way that it is.

wait, a partner comes to talk to her and takes a picture of her, and she is complaining ? Talk about being sensitive.
Lots of students from Columbia do not get their pictures taken, or partners did not bother to interact to them.

There is an epidemic of closet racism. The comments that some of you have written just emphasize the problem that people have with race without even realizing it. The large number of responses insulting this woman, who acted professionally in this situation, clearly show that many of you have no idea about what it's like being a minority associate at a law firm. On a regular basis, minority associates at law firms get mistaken for secretaries by partners, clients, and other associates. Then, there are the idiots (like some of you on this board) who assume that associates who are minorities in law firms got there without being qualified to do so and only got in the door because of their race. All in all, those of you who are white have no idea what the challenges are like, but assume that you have the same associate experience as minority associates.

In response to "Get over it,": People like you, who are willing to take the crap that people dish out while ignoring the unfairness of certain situations, are the people who encourage the closet racists who behave poorly and keep the status quo the way that it is.

Who would hire this student after such an unprofessional, unwarranted, and poorly written missive?

By the way, does anyone have a Facebook photo of her? I see a Katie Fernandez (Columbia '09) wearing a Mets tee, but am not sure if that's her.

Apparently 1st year students at Columbia are very easily "shocked and disappointed". Most places, wanting to have a photo taken with you is some sort of compliment.

I'd like to voice support for Ms. Fernandez. Her email is entirely appropriate. Progress is not made by letting these incidents "slide." Good work.

11:08,

Resentful much? You poor oppressed white folks. Didn't you see the SCOTUS decision last week? Cheer up, massa, you won't have to see any of us coloreds for long!

Why was Ms Fernandez upset? The reason why she was upset seems to be lost on most of you. Ms Fernandez was upset because this partner guy basically ignore her and the other minority summers and then snapped a picture of them together. She was upset because GT and this partner were going to use this picture of her to portray a welcoming environment that she felt was nonexistent. This picture could be used to get clients and recruits. It is very reasonable that Ms. Fernandez would be offended by this.

There are dicks at law firms. Associates of all races are treated poorly. The insult is that after treating her poorly a picture was snapped with the intent to deceive others.

It isn't that hard of a concept to get.

I think many of these posting just go to show how racist -- or at the very least, greatly insensitive -- many BigLaw attorneys are.

People are really mean to each other.

Hilarious that in making the rounds of minority student associations this incident has changed from a brief encounter with a rude senior attorney into proof of institutional racism in law firms and Corporate America. If this is racism, who cares about racism?

Can I give a shout out to Ms. Fernandez, ATL and all the commentators - reading this post is sooooooooo much better than studying for the Bar Exam!

To "Closet Racists":

Get off your soap box, bitch. Care to wonder why people think some minorities are in positions regardless of their qualifications? You can blame racism if you want, or you can call it the realities of hiring people for reasons other than their qualifications. I choose the latter.

As a female lawyer who has had her share of what could be deemed by some overly sensitive people "inappropriate behavior" at these law firm recruitment events (as one lawyer explained it, alcohol, lawyers, and law students are always a dangerous mix), I have to agree with the critical comments.

Ms. Fernandez is learning a good lesson of how life is---now she needs to suck it up and deal with it, and not take things so personally. She'll probably do some cruddy things too, intentionally or not, as she enters the world outside of The Land of Entitlement (aka law school). And, because we're all adults, we'll all move on. She should be concerned if there are things like unequal pay for equal work or actual harrassment---which does not seem to be even near to the case here. I really don't see anything wrong or out of the ordinary with the scenario she describes. That said, she was also well within her rights to air her discontent to the "offending" office but entirely unprofessional to mass-email it.

She'll learn, folks. Back off the poor girl.

Although I don't think that "shut up and don't complain" should be the message sent to minorities or women on how to make it in a law firm, I do think that some people fail to realize that this kind of reaction only brings negative attention to women and minorities, at least in the minds of many of the people who make up the majority. In an ideal world, these problems wouldn't exist in the first place, but being hypersensitive and "reporting" every potential incident hardly seems to be the best way to distinguish yourself from the secretaries and to advance in biglaw. Rather, most people who have a choice will avoid the complainers, for fear that they will be the next target of a discrimination claim. On the other hand, these posts also show that some people will be opposed to diversity initiatives no matter what happens, so maybe it doesn't make a difference.

this girl is a moron. good luck in the real world. I clerked at GT in Ft. Lauderdale years ago, and you couldn't have a more latin /hispanic environment.
The partner was clearly just a typical poor social skills attorney ....

Even if her account is true, since when did a minor social faux-pas (at best) turn into an unforgiveable act of racial/ethnic callousness and insensitivity?

Do me a favor. Seriously, this girl needs to get off her fucking high horse and stop thinking that being Latina ipso facto entitles her to things that other people have to work damn hard to get. All of a sudden this became a racial issue because one social retard partner was not as super-polite as he could have been, and wanted to take a picture with some minority students that showed up to a minority* recruiting event. Like many others have said, this could have happened to any other student at that event.

Katie apparently thinks that even the slightest hint of a social gaffe, that may or may not (since, after all, it was a minority recruiting event) have been motivated by targeting her for a photo op only because she is a minority candidate, is justification to paint *every* attorney working at GT with the same colors as that clueless, and possibly drunk, partner. It seems to me that broad stereotypes like that were part of the original underpinnings of racism in the first place. Of all people, she should know that one person's actions (which are not clearly offensive in the first place) should not be used as the basis to portray an entire Firm not only as bad as that one person, but far worse. This, notwithstanding ample evidence to the contrary such as the Firm's awards for diversity and other efforts pursuing that cause, such as holding recruiting events.

But she went ahead and forwarded the email, without removing attribution, to her friends, and encouraged them to share it with others. So, she's indifferent if she takes down a Firm's reputation simply because someone from that Firm may or may not have slighted her. She had to know that by doing that, her e-mail could turn into a nationwide e-mail campaign within hours, which it did. How thoughtless and immature. And I think she deserves everything she gets for it.

I don't even know if I'd go so far as to e-mail the Recruiting person at GT; perhaps she should have just chalked it up to somone being clueless and impolite, which we encounter every day. Not to mention that I would never even put any weight to my interactions with a few select people from a law firm at a recruiting event, who are usually bending over backwards to be fake, nice, or generally not acting as they probably do at the Firm. Use rankings, message boards like these, and word-of-mouth from people who have either actually worked or summered at a place you're interested in. What you hear from someone at a recruiting event is like dating -- you never know if they're accurately portraying themselves for a long time, probably after you've accepted anyway.

Talk about making something out of nothing. You would think a GT lawyer called this chick the "n" word.... If this isn't hyper-sensitive, I don't know what is.

One idiot law student was offend. Big fucking deal. Now the "closet racist" card is being thrown around. Utterly ridiculous...

Someone get Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton on the phone. Its time to protest GT for -- gasp -- offending a minority law student by asking her "what are you doing in DC" and taking pictures.

This is amazing.

The GT attorney was clearly a prick, yet most people are willing to side with him or excuse his behavior by chalking it up to poor social skills.

I ask, what poor social skills? The guy went up to them, asked their names and what they did, ignored their response while eyeing the room looking for a photographer, once he spotted one, asked for the picture, and then walked away.

This strikes me as Ari Goldesque (Entourage), not "poor social skills"!!!

And if you think that minorities in BigLaw are not qualified enough to be there, you are a racist. that is the very definition of racism: to think that someone is not qualified based on skincolor not knowing the strength of that persons skill set. Yes, it's called racism, now live with it.

This girl is a moron. Talk about a classic 2+2 = 5 situation. Who the hell knows what was going through that attorney's head. Ms. Fernandez needs to pull her head out of her ass. Unbelievable.

And you wonder why people dont agree with affirmative action and forced diversity. Case in point.

Call the ACLU and the Rainbow Colition... this unjustice cannot stand.

A chuva de Geórgia, na argila do condado do Jasper, não poderia lavar afastado a maneira que eu o amei a este dia. A estrada velha da sujeira é pavimentada sobre agora. Nada aqui é o mesmo, à exceção da chuva de Geórgia.

11:56 -- LOL

it wasn't a minority recruiting event. it wasn't a minority recruiting event.

I am going to bill the time I've spent reading your responses to the client. Thank you.

haha, wait until she's a first year who won't even get a hello from partners as she arrives for work at 8 a.m. If you want personal attention and to be noticed, go to theatre school. The mentioned attorney will probably still be fired over this.

I agree with some of your points, but take issue with the fact that your analysis is based on Ms. Fernandez having acted professionally. Let's say that the summer associate from yesterday's post about Wilmer summer associate salaries had emailed his law school friends about the disparities in pay and encouraged them to forward the email to others. I think that most people would agree that his behavior was unprofessional (as well as incredibly stupid) in that situation. In fact, a majority of ATL posters ripped the SA a new one, even though he sent his comments to ATL anonymously.

Is it really more appropriate to circulate a story because race is involved? If Ms. Fernandez felt it was appropriate to contact the firm's recruiting director or her law school's career department to bring rude behavior to light, I don't have a problem with that, but the mass broadcast to others -- even encouraging them to pass the message on -- was definitely unprofessional. Had Ms. Fernandez not taken that step, it's likely that no one here would be able to debate about it, as I can't imagine GT's recruiting director forwarding the email to ATL.

With that having been said, I feel for Ms. Fernandez, who is surely aware by now that her email has become a widely debated topic on ATL. I'm thankful that I went to law school pre-blog, so that my potentially bad decisions were not posted on the internet for others to critique.

Greenberg Traurig to 190!

Good lawyers have good judgment. Regardless of whether she's "right" or "wrong," I question Fernandez's judgment to mass-mail her one-sided view of an exchange at a cocktail party.

There are about 1700 lawyers at GT. This law student is both incredibly naive and unfair to the firm to judge its committment to diversity issues based on the barely rude behavior over a 30 second time span of a single GT lawyer. There are far more important criteria to use that should be more important to "minority" applicants considering working there.

No, I am not associated with GT. I am however a "minority". This story stinks of overreaction and trivialization by an immature brat of what is otherwise an important issue in our society.

This partner probably walked in about three minutes before he talked to the hyper-sensitive Columbia chick and asked for a picture so people would know he attended. He was probably out banging some chick and needed an alibi.

Getting partners to attend recruiting events is nearly impossible. If firms only allowed the touchy-feely ones to do it, they would never have any partners show up to these things at all.

Laurie - Even though I suspect you're David Lat in female disguise, I would still expect you to be aggressive in your reporting. Why have you not emailed GT for a response? Why did you kowtow to KF and remove her full name simply because she doesn't want her name "anywhere on law-related websites so close to interview season."?

"This law student is both incredibly naive and unfair to the firm to judge its committment to diversity issues based on the barely rude behavior over a 30 second time span of a single GT lawyer. "

Aren't you being completely native and unfair to her to judge her intelligence and personal worth based solely on her reaction to the rude behavior of a GT lawyer?

I feel for the mentioned attorney. Imagine what he is thinking right now about an innocuous incident that took all of 23 seconds. You'd think he'd pinched them on the ass and made a comment about how he likes big butts.

Those Columbia 2Ls. So "uppity."

Whatever, her name is still all over the place in the comments and Lat never changes them.

12:14 - Right on
12:16 - Best shit ever... I pissed myself laughing.

KF is out of luck anyway, since her name appears numerous times in the comments.

I've had the same partner ask me whether I'm a summer associate at our "welcome" event for the past four years. To which I identify my group. And that I'm on the same floor as him. Typically he eyes me, throws another appetizer in his mouth and wanders off, bored, I presume.

I'm looking forward to meeting him again next year.

I am really shocked by the hate filled responses to this incident. Ms. Fernandez didn't do anything wrong.
She had a bad experience at GT. She informed the recruiter and she sent an e-mail to her friends informing them of the experience. For those who think that that what happened to her was no big deal, they can easily interview with GT. For those that think that it is a big deal, then they can boycott GT.

At point should the summer associate have said something and sent out a mass e-mail. What if the partner had introduced himself well we need more black and brown faces around here. Is that offensive enough? What if he said yo girl whats up? Is that offensive enough? What if he said I am going to have the camera man take our picture just don't do a video ho pose?

I think that most of the readers here think that every response by a minority or a woman is an overreaction and for some reason we are just supposed to chalk things up to the way things are. Things are the way they are beceause of a long terrible history of racism in this country. The code of professionalism as it currently stands were written by white men in a time when women and minorities were not welcome and had no way of gaining access to professional work opportunities. Now, the work force is diverse and there has to be another answer beside women and minorities are hypersensitive and need to toughen up.

If you are going to remove the name of the girl who sent the email, then you should also remove the name of the law firm.

If she thought her concern was so valid, why is she not proud of sending the email?

12:29 -- but didn't you feel uncomfortable and offended as an (insert race) person?

I bet if you were white, he'd slap you on the back and invite you to the country club for a round of golf.

"I bet if you were white, he'd slap you on the back and invite you to the country club for a round of golf."

I'm white, but I'm pretty sure I'd need a penis for that kind of an offer. ;)

But, no, I'm not offended either way. I assume it's my youthful visage that stuns him into forgetting me every year.

Kimpton Hinkley -- you are an idiot. KF is an idiot. This whole thing is stupid. Get off your soap box.

She took something the wrong way and tried to turn it into an racial incident. What a fucking joke. You and she should be ashamed of yourselves.

10:25--So anytime at least two people of the same race are in a conversation together, they are "self-segregating"? Fantastic.

I am really shocked by the hate filled first posters on this site. Can't you ever settle for second?

Seems ATL's readership are missing the point here: girlfriend is way too emo to cut it as a New York lawyer.

Not that I don't support the KF bashing, but why no bashing of Christal Phillips, the Michigan Law student who sent the email to the listserv. "In 2001 more than 8 percent of Greenberg Traurig's lawyers were Hispanic. Three percent are African-American and 1 percent Asian-American. Still not enough in my opinion.
Christal"

Good point. Christal sucks too.

I support all the KF bashing in the world. Federline is a no talent loser.

White female here - I actually buy Fernandez's take on the interaction. Sure, she's not getting asked to enter by the service elevator or anything truly reprehensible, but that doesn't mean she has nothing to complain about. I would've limited the complaint to a conversation, but whatever. My firm routinely includes pictures in its pamphlets of staff members of color (no white staff members), which I 100% think is to give the illusion of diversity.

"I think, however, the partners' disinterest in me was that my name tag also included my second-rate law school's name. "

Ha ha - same EXACT thing happened to me multiple times when I was a summer associate when other summer associates/lawyers at the firm read my name and local NYC law school on name tag. Idiots. I wanted to say "I took Contracts. And Torts. And Civ Pro. Just like you. Imagine that!"

Sounds like everybody's got a case of the Tuesdays.

po po zao

Always remember: 10-20% of the general population actually likes to be outraged (and that percentage shoots up on college campuses).

"My firm routinely includes pictures in its pamphlets of staff members of color (no white staff members), which I 100% think is to give the illusion of diversity"

But don't firms routinely put "fake" pictures on their Web sites? (perhaps I'm just naive and there was a room full of outstanding looking folks sitting around a conference room table - laughin' and someone took that "candid" that is on jonesday.com's career page).

I mean, isn't it EXPECTED that law firms will show diversity in their advertisements and isn't it further expected that those shots are, I hate to pull the curtain back for you, here, um, staged?

Blah Blah Blah (Insert whiny comment here) blah blah blah repeal prop 209. Blah blah

Everyone look at me, let me forward my complaint to every person who might care, lets hurt GT's nationwide recruiting as much as possible over my interaction with a single attorney, I don't even know if he was a partner, hell he might have been an attoyney from Latham crashing the event, but I don't care because I crave attention

I'm thinking of firing a letter off to Columbia university bemoaning its commitment to intelligence and common sense based on my experience with Katie Fernandez. I will not be getting my LLM there.

geez what a loser

When the a senior partner at the first firm I clerked at said "if we had the choice between hiring an equally qualified guy or girl as a new attorney, we'd go with the guy - he's a better investment," and then the hiring partner said "as a single girl just out of school, you don't really need to make a lot, right," I gladly left them to rot in their good ol' boy ignorance.

When I noticed that the second firm I clerked had hired 4 of 6 clerks for that summer from the very shallow pool of pretty blue-eyed blondes at our state's law schools, I turned down their offer to return.

Without any law firm options, I worked hard to get a clerkship, then studied up on bigger and better firms, then got an offer from a much better firm than either of the first two, and now can laugh as the lawyers at the first firm are still having to write their own briefs and the ones at the second are in a firm that is about to go under.

She really needs to use her experience to learn a lesson, move on, and surpass firms like GT (if she truly believes that the actions of one drunk partner mean the firm wouldn't value her adequately).

In short, quit yer bitchin' Katie.

1:04, yes, but I worked for a firm that would include a picture of almost every minority in the firm in its annual report. Although everyone knows those conference room table pics are fake, it seems shady to have 80% of the pictures in a non-diversity related publication be of minorities if you have a much smaller percentage of minority representation on staff. However, in-house attorneys may see through such nonsense.

This shit is so lame.

OMG... please repost her name... this garbage deserves national ridicule

1:15

You work at a firm where the people are photogenic enough to be presented in publications that are on something other than the C:/ drive?

I'm jealous.

Anyone who thinks that the GT partner was affirmatively getting a photo for diversity recruitment efforts is a "fact" should be shot in the face and dumped in the hudson. Our gene pool can do better.

Another example of bigotry and racism espoused in between the lines. It is this type of subliminal devaluation of people and groups that is wrong with the legal profession and America.

Great work KF for recognizing and standing up to ignorance.

1:24

Exactly the point I was going for, 1:24. Thank you for being so direct.

1:23, now that I think about it, maybe the firm just used those pictures because the minorities were the only decent looking people at the firm!

Hey, maybe when you get admitted to a better law school than you deserve and will likely get hired by a better firm than you deserve, both due in large part on your ethnicity (not your qualifications), you should expect those people who conferring those benefits on you (which you don't deserve) to flaunt your ethnicity a bit.

Cry me a river.

Katie Fernandez!!!!!!

"Great work KF for recognizing and standing up to ignorance."

Ignorance? For snubbing a group of people at a cocktail party and posing for a picture? Are you fucking kidding me???!!!

How this dumb bitch's baseless effort to smear a law firm and scream for attention has turned in to some fight agaisnt social injustice is beyone me.

She should be shamed and publicly ridiculed for attempting to turn this sham in to an issue.

Could you imagine having a woman as stupid as Katie Fernandez being your lawyer?

She would probably blow a case for you by going nuts on the jury if one of the jurors yawned while she was talking -- something that, in KF's mind, would clearly imply that the juror was racist, of course.

This story was first reported on autoadmit.com with unretracted e-mail addresses

I hate democracy and all that you hold dear!!!

Minorities I know at my Ivy League law school work very hard, most get above average grades (which have nothing to do with their ethnicity because names are omitted from tests), and all had competitive LSAT scores and GPAs. I think they should stop trying to prove themselves to those who think they were admitted because of AA. To all the minorities out there, don't listen to these AA rants; as a white male, I can attest to the fact that most of these hateful comments come from insecure whites that can't stand minorities being smarter than them. In the same way that not all GT employees are jerks, not all whites believe successful minorities are under-qualified, as this thread seems to suggest.

She'd be a harsh critic of any firm that had no photos like this one in its literature. But she's mad that GT tried to get a photo?

Take home message: you idiots made race into some sort of meaningful plus factor, and now you're being whored out for your skin colour alone. You made your bed, URMs. Now lay in it quietly; the rest of us have hours to bill.

1:59 - you're a douche-bag. shut up.

A Google search for "Katie Fernandez" and "Columbia" reveals she has been whining about this kind of "racism" stuff since she was an undergrad at the school. It also reveals she was the school paper sex columnist. Odd that someone obviously so socially awkward and frigid would be advising others on their sex life...

Yah, so she's a little hypersensitive. As so many have pointed out, she'll lose that Real Quick in the harsh, cold world. The GT message was a bit over the top, but can be forgiven as excusable zealotry from a more-or-less clueless law student. The real problem was her exceptionally poor judgment in sending the e-mail to her friends and colleagues. That's what's going to croak her, poor kid.

-- ET!

2:02 -- Thank you for exposing yet another problem with AA.

Oh, and at my T1 law school, there wasn't a single minority in the top 15% of our class (I checked), but we certainly had our fair share in the class as a whole.

I'll be right back, I have to go pose for a picture with my gardener, Jose.

I've been in BigLaw six years. I was just told the other day some work I did was the biggest piece of s--t he'd ever seen. Then he threw the binder at me. And I'm his favorite associate.

I can't wait until this one gets what's coming to her.

this girl is a complete idiot...now EVERYONE in the legal community knows her name.

1:09. Good, LLMs are irritating anyway.

Diversity Dialogue Begins
Diversity Committee Meets for First Time To Discuss Race Issues [at Columbia]
By: Laura Brunts
Spectator Staff Writer
Posted: 12/1/05
More than a year ago, the steps to Low Library were filled by a week of protests about racism and students demanded increased dialogue about diversity on campus. On Wednesday night, University President Lee Bollinger met with the President's Student Advisory Committee on Diversity for the first time.

"Lee Bollinger and Alan Brinkley were persuaded by very persuasive students," University Chaplain Jewelnel Davis said of the council's creation. "We don't just want to deal with things in a crisis; we want to have an ongoing dialogue."

Student representatives from the Asian American Alliance, the Black Students Organization, the Native American Council, the Chinese Students Club, Hillel, the Muslim Students' Association, the National Society of Black Engineers, Columbia Queer Alliance, the Student Organization of Latinos, and the United Students of Color Council will meet with Bollinger, Brinkley, Davis, and several other administrators involved in student affairs two more times next semester to discuss diversity issues.

"I thought it was a good idea [when I first heard about it]," said Katie Fernandez, CC '06, of the SOL. "[At Columbia] the minority communities don't really feel like part of the greater whole," she said.

the fact that people assume that she did not merit acceptance to CLS except based upon her race and should therefore basically shut up and take it is incredibly offensive. anyone know her lsat/ugrad gpa/etc??

The women stood up and made a point she thought was important to make. That is called courage.

All of you that are name calling and delving into her personal background and trying to post her confidential information should be ashamed of yourself for being so insecure, weak, and frail. You could learn something from this young lady whether you agree with her or not.

Not one minority on law review at my 1st tier school, but probably 40% in my class.

Hey, Rob, blow me.

This is why I, as a minority, can understand why Justice Clarence Thomas does not believe in AA. We minorities are just as intelligent as, if not more intelligent, than our colleagues of the "majority" persuasion. We do not need your AA handouts.

2:14:

1.) I can reasonably infer from her actions that she is an idiot, and thus did not deserve to be admitted to CLS.

2.) It is quite leap that KF made in "determining" the motives of the partner.

3.) Regardless of whether she did or did not deserve admittance to CLS, and accepting as true KFs belief of the partners motivation, Katie Fernandez is still an idiot. Many minorities are (a) admitted to schools, and (b) hired at law firms, based predominantly on their ethnicity. So long as such practices continue (I am going to go out on a limb here and guess KF isn't against these), a certain level of, "look, we are hanging out with 3 minorities" is to be expected. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

The point isn't that she said something, I think that what most of us are upset about is that she forwarded her assanine read of an ambiguous situation and communicated it to the whole fucking world as though it were gospel.

If the partner told her that GT needed another Brown Skinned hottie than I can see telling everyone about it, but just being blown off by some random person at a random cocktail party is an ambiguois which did not deserve to be published nationwide

What do you guys consider 1st tier? Top 5, top 10? According to U.S. news, 1st tier is top 50, which doesn't say much. We have URM on LR at my top 5 school; some have judicial clerkships lined up. May also remind everyone that the current president of Harvard LR is Latino.

kf2045@columbia.edu

"[At Columbia] the minority communities don't really feel like part of the greater whole." -- Katie Fernandez

http://www.columbiaspectator.com/home/index.cfm?event=displayArticlePrinterFriendly&uStory_id=909774e5-87d0-459e-a99a-62403cd84e5a

wow, did someone just post that?

Wow

Wow

2:16:

There is a fine line between courage, and stupidity. Unfortunately, I think this is a case of the latter.

She had an awful experience at a recruiting event, and she tactfully emailed the firm and her classmates alerting them to the matter. Almost anyone not white who read her account of what happened would immediately have had her same suspicions as to what transpired. And if you have a bad experience with recruiting right before fall interviews start, of course you're going to alert your friends and classmates to it, so they can make a more informed decision about where to interview. As far as all those posting on this who are referring to her as a "dumb bitch" and "garbage" I am assuming you are at a second-rate law school with hopes of landing a second-rate job, at best, after you graduate, and you're bitter that you don't have the same opportunities to succeed as her and other students at top tier law schools.

Yes, what an "awful experience."

It's stuff like this that takes away from people who actually ARE treated poorly on account of their race; it's like the boy who cried wolf. That's a shame.

Maybe this girl was gross...anyone thought of that? I'm apt to turn away from gross-looking people regardless of their ethnicity....perhaps we just had a regular 'ol case of "not hot enough to talk to." This tends to happen from time to time...though I'm sure this girl blames it on her last name...

Also, she's not too smart for writing this email to GT. The legal community is super small.

My guess is that everyone here excoriating the law student and that did not explicitly mention they were a minority themselves is a white person lacking the intellectual capacity to matriculate to a school as good as Columbia. You can desperately cling to the fiction that minority status was some free pass that was all that was needed to get them in, but look over the LSAT / GPA stats of accepted students at top schools and face reality. Oops, your pathetic bitterness is showing.

Well said 2:30pm.

"As far as all those posting on this who are referring to her as a "dumb bitch" and "garbage" I am assuming you are at a second-rate law school with hopes of landing a second-rate job, at best, after you graduate, and you're bitter that you don't have the same opportunities to succeed as her and other students at top tier law schools."

Yeah, I guess I have no reason to be bitter that unqualified people take 1st tier slots from others just because of their skin color. Maybe the bus driver should have told Rosa Parks "you're just bitter that you don't have the same opportunities to sit in the front of the bus as other white riders do."

With those kinds of sad legal reasoning skills, I suppose ethnicity IS a necessary fall back to get a position in biglaw.

since we're giving out names and emails, anyone have a pic of that spicy senorita?

2:37 - nice gratuitous use of "metriculate." Boy, you sure sound smart.

2:38 - just laughed out loud with the door open... love when that happens!!!

2:37:

I sympathize with what you're saying. Nonetheless, the fact of the matter is, many minorities are let into schools and hired at firms with LSAT / GPA / etc which are significantly lower than whites who are denied.

While being a minority certainly isn't a "free pass" into CLS, being such CAN and DOES gain you admittance when you would otherwise be denied (if you were, say, white).

Those are the "facts," and to deny them is a sign of your insecurity. Be thankful for the opportunities you received (deserved or otherwise), but don't belittle the reality of the situation.

Minorities Against Affirmative Action ("MAAA")

True story:
High school, scored ~100 pts higher on the SATS than a childhood friend.
He --> Ivy League. Me --> 1st tier, but still a good school (no complaints here, I liked where I went).

Both apply to law school in the same year.
He --> 164 --> Columbia (off wait list, but still got in). Me --> 165 --> Cardozo.

Both pass NY Bar.
He --> V10 firm. Me --> Working for good ole NYC (not a bad gig but it hardly pays the bills).

He --> Hispanic. Me --> Asian.

Now that's what I call insulting but I wouldn't blame my friend for it nor would I say he doesn't deserve it (he works as hard as the rest of us). I'd be annoyed though if he began to complain about his race being a factor in the legal profession. Possibly more than annoyed. End of story.

And the racists come out of the woodwork! It amazes me that there are still people out there SO bitter about minorities taking up less than 10% of their top tier law school classes. Minorities who have EVERY right to be there. I started law school with a top tier MBA and MA, and I couldn't then fathom the way that snot-nosed 22 year olds with a sense of entitlement poo-pooed my attendance at "their" law school without knowing my background. After 3 years, and even more after seeing the messages on this board, I now realize that you guys genuinely FEAR accomplished minorities. We make you shit your pants, lol. It absolutely kills you when we are smarter, more accomplished and get better grades than you. ESPECIALLY when we earn them, and don't need affirmative action. So in one fell swoop, you seek to destroy our self esteem and mitigate our accomplishments with cries of "you didn't earn it!" As if my 10-15 hours a day of studying are somehow worth less than yours. So sad! I really feel bad for you idiots...America is slowly becoming a majority of minorities soon anyway, so I guess you'll just have to learn the hard way that those of us that aren't caught in the cycle of poverty that is a remnant of slavery and the Jim Crow era are here to stay. We work harder than you, we're less socially inept, and are overall probably more accomplished. As more and more of us graduate and go to top firms, and take our places in that top 10% of US income earners, I wonder how you will hide your racism then? What will your new tricks be?

Later, maggots.

Come on, Anonymous Minority Atty, you don't think being a minority gives you a leg up? I'd love to see some numbers on the average LSAT and GPA of minorities vs. their white law school peers.

2:25...if you are going to post her email, at least have the balls to not do it anonymously

2:30, thanks for bringing up an important point.

Minorities have been systematically discriminated against since the founding of this country. Whites have preferred their own time and time again, so I have no issues with government and academic institutions trying to reverse what they spent centuries perpetuating. Minorities don't represent more than 6% of the legal community, so quit your AA whining.

I'm fortunate enough to have been admitted to a top 20, and if a minority took my place at a top 10, that's fine. I went to a decent high school, have parents who went to college, and in the end, I'll end up in the same place as they will. Why? because I'm an average white guy, and I'll eventually become an ol' boy. So give URMs a break, us whites have had our own form of AA for two centuries.

The minority card.

LSAT, GPA, etc, do not tell the whole story of the significance of a person’s accomplishments and abilities. To say that letting minorities with lower scores into spots that should be reserved for better “performing” non-minority students fails to consider the reality of the time and place we live.

I must admit that you fanatics that come out of the woodwork to promulgate your xenophobic views do a good job of dictating the terms of the discourse. I got dragged into to your anti-AA rant when the discussion began elsewhere.

2:37, I got in at Columbia (and went to Michigan), and to claim that every minority that is at all of the top 10 schools is there entirely due to equivalent LSATs and grades is pretty silly. The lower average LSATs and GPAs of minority students admitted to Michigan was documented in the litigation over the diversity policies (though they really should have picked a better lead plaintiff -- Grutter wouldn't have gotten in even without the diversity policy).

There were, of course, some brilliant minority students there who got similar better grades than I did, got good clerkships, and were there on their own merit. Hell, I work with some of them now. But given the facts, there were some there for whom their minority status, while not a free pass, certainly allowed them a significant bump up in the law school they were able to attend. To claim otherwise is quite disingenuous.

If we are going to eliminate race as a factor though, we ought to remove names and questions about relatives who attended the school from consideration in admissions decisions. The old-boys network and people buying their way into some schools needs to be eradicated too if we're really worried about an even playing field for all and making college (and further schooling) admissions truly based on merit alone.

AFFIRMATIVE ACTION FOR WHITES:

Here's what white privilege sounds like:

I am sitting in my University of Texas office, talking to a very bright and very conservative white student about affirmative action in college admissions, which he opposes and I support.

The student says he wants a level playing field with no unearned advantages for anyone. I ask him whether he thinks that in the United States being white has advantages. Have either of us, I ask, ever benefited from being white in a world run mostly by white people? Yes, he concedes, there is something real and tangible we could call white privilege.

So, if we live in a world of white privilege--unearned white privilege--how does that affect your notion of a level playing field? I ask.

He paused for a moment and said, "That really doesn't matter."

That statement, I suggested to him, reveals the ultimate white privilege: the privilege to acknowledge you have unearned privilege but ignore what it means.

That exchange led me to rethink the way I talk about race and racism with students. It drove home to me the importance of confronting the dirty secret that we white people carry around with us everyday: In a world of white privilege, some of what we have is unearned. I think much of both the fear and anger that comes up around discussions of affirmative action has its roots in that secret. So these days, my goal is to talk openly and honestly about white supremacy and white privilege.

White privilege, like any social phenomenon, is complex. In a white supremacist culture, all white people have privilege, whether or not they are overtly racist themselves. There are general patterns, but such privilege plays out differently depending on context and other aspects of one's identity (in my case, being male gives me other kinds of privilege). Rather than try to tell others how white privilege has played out in their lives, I talk about how it has affected me.

I am as white as white gets in this country. I am of northern European heritage and I was raised in North Dakota, one of the whitest states in the country. I grew up in a virtually all-white world surrounded by racism, both personal and institutional. Because I didn't live near a reservation, I didn't even have exposure to the state's only numerically significant non-white population, American Indians.

I have struggled to resist that racist training and the ongoing racism of my culture. I like to think I have changed, even though I routinely trip over the lingering effects of that internalized racism and the institutional racism around me. But no matter how much I "fix" myself, one thing never changes--I walk through the world with white privilege.

What does that mean? Perhaps most importantly, when I seek admission to a university, apply for a job, or hunt for an apartment, I don't look threatening. Almost all of the people evaluating me for those things look like me--they are white. They see in me a reflection of themselves, and in a racist world that is an advantage. I smile. I am white. I am one of them. I am not dangerous. Even when I voice critical opinions, I am cut some slack. After all, I'm white.

My flaws also are more easily forgiven because I am white. Some complain that affirmative action has meant the university is saddled with mediocre minority professors. I have no doubt there are minority faculty who are mediocre, though I don't know very many. As Henry Louis Gates Jr. once pointed out, if affirmative action policies were in place for the next hundred years, it's possible that at the end of that time the university could have as many mediocre minority professors as it has mediocre white professors. That isn't meant as an insult to anyone, but is a simple observation that white privilege has meant that scores of second-rate white professors have slid through the system because their flaws were overlooked out of solidarity based on race, as well as on gender, class and ideology.

Some people resist the assertions that the United States is still a bitterly racist society and that the racism has real effects on real people. But white folks have long cut other white folks a break. I know, because I am one of them.

I am not a genius--as I like to say, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I have been teaching full-time for six years, and I've published a reasonable amount of scholarship. Some of it is the unexceptional stuff one churns out to get tenure, and some of it, I would argue, actually is worth reading. I work hard, and I like to think that I'm a fairly decent teacher. Every once in awhile, I leave my office at the end of the day feeling like I really accomplished something. When I cash my paycheck, I don't feel guilty.

But, all that said, I know I did not get where I am by merit alone. I benefited from, among other things, white privilege. That doesn't mean that I don't deserve my job, or that if I weren't white I would never have gotten the job. It means simply that all through my life, I have soaked up benefits for being white. I grew up in fertile farm country taken by force from non-white indigenous people. I was educated in a well-funded, virtually all-white public school system in which I learned that white people like me made this country great. There I also was taught a variety of skills, including how to take standardized tests written by and for white people.

All my life I have been hired for jobs by white people. I was accepted for graduate school by white people. And I was hired for a teaching position at the predominantly white University of Texas, which had a white president, in a college headed by a white dean and in a department with a white chairman that at the time had one non-white tenured professor.

There certainly is individual variation in experience. Some white people have had it easier than me, probably because they came from wealthy families that gave them even more privilege. Some white people have had it tougher than me because they came from poorer families. White women face discrimination I will never know. But, in the end, white people all have drawn on white privilege somewhere in their lives.

Like anyone, I have overcome certain hardships in my life. I have worked hard to get where I am, and I work hard to stay there. But to feel good about myself and my work, I do not have to believe that "merit," as defined by white people in a white country, alone got me here. I can acknowledge that in addition to all that hard work, I got a significant boost from white privilege, which continues to protect me every day of my life from certain hardships.

At one time in my life, I would not have been able to say that, because I needed to believe that my success in life was due solely to my individual talent and effort. I saw myself as the heroic American, the rugged individualist. I was so deeply seduced by the culture's mythology that I couldn't see the fear that was binding me to those myths. Like all white Americans, I was living with the fear that maybe I didn't really deserve my success, that maybe luck and privilege had more to do with it than brains and hard work. I was afraid I wasn't heroic or rugged, that I wasn't special.

I let go of some of that fear when I realized that, indeed, I wasn't special, but that I was still me. What I do well, I still can take pride in, even when I know that the rules under which I work in are stacked in my benefit. I believe that until we let go of the fiction that people have complete control over their fate--that we can will ourselves to be anything we choose--then we will live with that fear. Yes, we should all dream big and pursue our dreams and not let anyone or anything stop us. But we all are the product both of what we will ourselves to be and what the society in which we live lets us be.

White privilege is not something I get to decide whether or not I want to keep. Every time I walk into a store at the same time as a black man and the security guard follows him and leaves me alone to shop, I am benefiting from white privilege. There is not space here to list all the ways in which white privilege plays out in our daily lives, but it is clear that I will carry this privilege with me until the day white supremacy is erased from this society.

Frankly, I don't think I will live to see that day; I am realistic about the scope of the task. However, I continue to have hope, to believe in the creative power of human beings to engage the world honestly and act morally. A first step for white people, I think, is to not be afraid to admit that we have benefited from white privilege. It doesn't mean we are frauds who have no claim to our success. It means we face a choice about what we do with our success.

Jensen is a professor in the School of Journalism in the University of Texas at Austin. He can be reached at rjensen@uts.cc.utexas.edu.

How many people of any color even have the privilege to be that picky about their work environment?

This is an insult to people suffering from real racism & other real problems. It makes her seem like a whiny, spoiled brat.

To Well Said,

Absolutely. White guys who can't get jobs at Tier 1 law firms are just like Rosa Parks.

Awesome "legal reasoning skills." Would you be my lawyer? Since you'rer obviously too much of a moron to get a decent job.

Whites get affirmative action every freaking day. Admit it, and stop whining about minorities getting an "edge." They work just as hard as you do! Ohhhhh, the minorities are taking up the 5 seats in law school that should have been mine, and I deserve it because I am pale and study in between my frat meetings and drinking binges--stop whining, bitches!

2:48,

Why did you omit Law School GPA? Also, by your post, I could tell you're one envious self-absorbed brat who would probably suck at interviewing. But he got one point less on the LSAT!!!!!!!!!!

for all those posters ripping on this girl, are you doing so because you think she was wrong in her judgment? or would you still rip on her if you knew her perception of the situation was absolutely spot on?

for those in the latter camp, you need a reality check, not her. herding minorities to get a photo-op is disgusting behavior. that's what she felt was going on. maybe she was wrong. but why the hell would you have a better read on the situation than her?

and to all the people commenting about how brutal the real world can be, is that really in issue? she's a student. she's divorced from reality about as much as one can get absent massive amounts of mind altering drugs. so what? it does not make the conduct any more acceptable. that's the only point here. the point is clearly not that you won't encounter hostility once out in the work world--the stories and outrage on this thread make that perfectly clear.

Katie Fernandez, If you're going to mass email everybody else the email even after emailing the firm directly, why chicken out now?

takes an anonymous chicken to know one.

2:30 - you obv wouldnt know tact if it shat on your face. oh, and im not jealous of anything (tier one, top 15%, computer science undergrad... gt recruiters dont ignore me). i am however, constantly irritated by 23 year old 1Ls who think they need to change the world rather than live in it.

I didn't want to talk about AA today, but here we are....

AA is philosophically inconsistent. It seeks to fight a history of racism through... racism. What else can you call a policy that explicitly discriminates based on race but racist.

The sad fact is, that while I admit our society is still racist, the amount of present racism is much smaller than most people believe. The problem lies not in present racism, but in the legacy of past racism, namely poverty.

It turns out that when you statistically control for socio-economic position most societal abnormalities popularly chalked up to racism disappear. Why then do we condone race based affirmative action? Socio-economic affirmative action is not philosphically inconsistent, would be much less controversial, and would have substantially the same benefits.

I admit that I am white, but growing up ALL of my friends were URM and all were from families who could have bought and sold my own a thousand times over. They hadf private tutors on the SATs, LSATs and MCATs, and they all by their own admission have benefitted substantially from AA policies. Where is the justice in that. I'm not bitter, I worked hard and went to a great school, and now have the job that I tried so hard to earn, but I do believe that AA policy needs to be changed for future generations.

3:07 -

If she was correct in her read of the situation, I still think she is being stupid. If you want firms to tout their "diversity," which it appears she does, then there will be some stupid photo ops. Get over it.

2:59--I'm totally w/ you. How can we make life absolutely fair for all?

There is definitely a tall privilege, a good looking privilege, a natural intelligence privilege. As a beneficiary of at least the first two--I'm for institutationalizing preferences for short, ugly, unintelligent people.

Amen, 3:12.

Katie Fernandez, Columbia '09

"AA is philosophically inconsistent. It seeks to fight a history of racism through... racism. What else can you call a policy that explicitly discriminates based on race but racist."

AA, among others, seeks to redress the effects of longstanding structural racism, not racism per se. You dumb moron.

"[My brown friends] had private tutors on the SATs, LSATs and MCATs, and they all by their own admission have benefitted substantially from AA policies. Where is the justice in that."

Yeah, dumb moron #2, because rules don't have exceptions, and because all brown and black kids have tutors and go to fantastic schools.

Oh, most in their families are college graduates too, so they also get that legacy boost like the rest of us. The injustice indeed.

3:12 -

i dunno. just take it a step further. if the guy had said, 'i need to be in a picture with three minorities...oh, you'll do...smile...' wouldn't that be pretty offensive? that's all that's going on here. allegedly offensive behavior. i don't see why putting it in the context of a diversity fair makes it less offensive.

This whole "insidious institutional racism" bit is getting old. AA only perpetuates more racism and resentment toward minorities. One step forward, two steps back.

Want less racism and resentment? Stop AA. So, when someone sees a minority at a ivy law school they will know they got there on merit, for "cultural enrichment."

1:04: Sure, my firm's shots are "staged", but the photos were all of attorneys at the firm, except for the minority staff photos. I don't think that's a coincidence.

Israel,

Exactly my point, there are exceptions applenty to the application of race based AA because race does not correlate as well as socio economic status to the "unearned" boost that someone can expect to their chances of success in life.

Get off your fucking high horse and look at the god damned statistics. Race based affirmative action is just politically expedient it is not the most effective way to deal with entrenched problems, it is not even the most effective way to implement affirmative action programs.

Minorities Against Affirmative Action ("MAAA")

Minorities Against Affirmative Action ("MAAA")

"This whole "insidious institutional racism" bit is getting old."

I'm glad you feel that way...I've been feeling that way my whole goddamn life as a minority in America. You may want to read that Jensen article above while you sit on your lazy ass enjoying your white privilege, hypocrite.

Minorities Against Affirmative Action ("MAAA")

Take a look at the district court case in Grutter if you're interested in learning about the academic disparity between minority and white admits at top law schools.

"This whole 'insidious institutional racism' bit is getting old"

Very eloquent 3:23. I wish it were getting old, but it's not. Care to explain. Or should we take your statement to mean "I can't really argue with that, so please stop bringing that up b/c I have no answer." Are you a lazy typist or a lazy thinker, or both?

"Want less racism and resentment? Stop AA. So, when someone sees a minority at a ivy law school they will know they got there on merit"

Hahahaha, translation: "dude, I'm a racist prick, I can't help myself, they all seem so dumb to me I don't know which one is smart and which one isn't. so why don't you stop this AA bullshit so I no longer have an excuse for my racism."

"My firm routinely includes pictures in its pamphlets of staff members of color (no white staff members), which I 100% think is to give the illusion of diversity"

"1:04: Sure, my firm's shots are "staged", but the photos were all of attorneys at the firm, except for the minority staff photos. I don't think that's a coincidence."

So what you're saying is that your firm brought in models for the diversity pictures? If so, why in your first point did you refer to them as "staff members of color." Or are you saying that they brought in models to represent the minority staff members but not the other staff members raising the inference that the old white folk at your firm were more photogenic? I'm confused.

She actually took the time to complain about this? I'm an old broad, but doesn't it seem completely weird that she'd think this partner's behavior was bad enough to complain about? If you go to a party on either coast w/ a lot of lawyers, most of the folks you talk to will always be looking over your shoulder, to see if there's someone more important than you they should be chatting w/. That's life, move on.

I think by "This whole 'insidious institutional racism'", 3:23 meant "this whole watered-down, overplayed, boogy-man in the night, how long are you doing to rely on this crutch, insidious institutional racism."

1) who cares, 80% of us wont be practicing in big law in 5 years anyways! And I am anti- AA, once a better plan is implemented to help level teh playing field

"I think by "This whole 'insidious institutional racism'", 3:23 meant "this whole watered-down, overplayed, boogy-man in the night, how long are you doing to rely on this crutch, insidious institutional racism.""

Again: You may want to read that Jensen article above while you sit on your lazy ass enjoying your white privilege, hypocrite.

Oh...and while you're at it, stop relying on your white privilege crutch, why don't ya?

3:47 - you said "boogy."

Anyone from Columbia wish to post about what this girl is like?

It is one thing to criticize someone's political beliefs, it is quite another to anonymously post their email address and full name on a website. Considering that the email address given is her Columbia address, I can only assume that one of her classmates (though they hardly merit that distinction) posted her name and email address in the comments section.

Do you think that hurting her will help you? Or is your desire merely to make everyone as miserable as you are? I can only hope that none of the mean spirited posts attacking my classmate came from anyone I know. To those of you who took time out of your busy day to anonymously defame a young woman on the internet, bravo, I salute your courage.

Charles Alovisetti CLS '09

When you forward an email to anyone, let alone scores of people, you surrender all rights to privacy in your name, you email address, and your expressed sentiment.

But thanks for playing Charles

She'll fit right in with you bottom feeders. Enjoy!

Charles Alvisetti,

Her e-mail address is posted on autoadmit.com. That is probably where the ATL post came from.

You guys are such morons. Especially this Charles Alvisetti retard.

Columbia publishes its directory.
https://directory.columbia.edu/people/search?filter.searchTerm=

Anyone can search a name. Yes, we can find your email address too, if we really care. But I'll leave you alone, these personal injury law firms must be working you hard. Moron.

Again, here it is (this is for you too, Charles Alvisetti), Columbia directory. I am just telling everyone that it is there. I did not say how to use it, or what to use it for.

https://directory.columbia.edu/people/search?filter.searchTerm=

4:02, 4:05, and 4:07- learn to read/spell: Alovisetti

Hi Charles!

WTF if you love Alovisetti so much why dont you marry him?

Suck me Chuck

wtf @ 4:09pm is right. It is Alovisetti.

Do you guys know that Columbia publishes its directory?
https://directory.columbia.edu/people/search?filter.searchTerm=

(Not legal advice. Not suggestion. I am just asking a question)

yo Alvlestini ... defamation requires a false statement of fact. calling this chick out for being dumb is not defamation. if it were, KF would be guilty of it herself for calling a law firm racist.

I agree with the student to some extent and I think the attitude she describes is indicative of a general problem in the corporate world. Too often, diversity is valued only as a recruiting chip and a way of promoting a certain image, not as a genuine means of enhancing an organization's perspective and outlook. That's a problem.

That being said, I think that we minorities need to develop a thicker skin and be more pragmatic about these kinds of things. The business world isn't always a comfortable place; unpleasant situations will often arise. We need to exercise wisdom and choose our battles. Writing letters of complaint over relatively minor incidents and forwarding them to friends isn't a career-enhancing move.

Or, its just plain stupid.

here's an idea: don't let people go straight to law school from undergrad. it's no surprise KF went straight from undergrad. law students with no real work experience (part-time or summer jobs don't count) have little to no idea about what's commonplace in work situations, what's worth complaining about, what's not, and, most importantly, how to deal with things that arise. i applaud northwestern in its efforts to make my idea a reality, but i don't know of any other school that nearly unanimously insists on it from its potential students.

Any person that anonymously posts personal attacks is a coward. It does not matter if you are from Columbia or any other law school. This does not mean that all people who post critical comments are cowards. If someone wants to say that they feel the incident KT described was not racist they can do this in an anonymous fashion without calling KT a bitch. If in giving your two cents you also have the desire to call KT a bitch, then state your name.

Furthermore, before people jump to the conclusion that KT wanted everyone to see her letter, they should consider the fact that maybe she only wanted her friends to see the letter. I do not know if this is the case, or even if this is any better than sending out to everyone, but it is wrong to automatically infer that because KT told a couple of friends to pass this information on to others that she approved the dissemination of this letter to the rest of the world.

To make work experience a requirement, it would need to be included in the ABA approval process

I love the 1Ls trying to apply rational legal logic to what is otherwise a flame war. Classic.

Who cares what KT objectively wanted w/regards to the dissemination of her email. Any email sent to anyone is up for grabs in today's world. You need to understand that and it accept it everytime you hit the send button.

This is even more true when you send the email to others and instruct them to forward it on

Hey "Dan Horowitz" no one made you the moral police, ok? These boards (as others) provide a degree of anonymity which allows people to be *more* candid than if they had to attach their names.

That being said, you're a *long* ways off from having any idea about the law and the real world, so keep on truckin' little buddy: you and "KT" ("KF") have some learning to do.

"i am however, constantly irritated by 23 year old 1Ls who think they need to change the world rather than live in it."

I'm usually impressed by them.

Moreover, "Dan Horowitz," you might want to advise CLS to spend some add'l funds on, well, maybe a reading fundamentals class. You claim you "do not know" if "KT wanted everyone to see her letter," but it kinda, um SAYS:

> That being said, I had an awful experience at the
> Greenberg Traurig
> reception the other night. Below this email is the
> email I wrote
> to their director of recruitment the next morning.
> Please feel
> free to pass it along...

"Please feel free to pass it along..." Famous last words, eh?

To CLS '09 students who have posted or who are planning to post: Your points are marginally valid. People shouldn't anonymously attack people over the internet. Regardless of why, everyone would basically agree to that. But it happens. And there's nothing that can be done about it. Given the preceding two facts, what can be done? The answer is to be VERY, very careful in what you circulate via email or otherwise through the internet. KF did not follow this maxim. Her judgment is what's at fault.

Er, I'm not a 1L, and I agree with Mr. Horowitz.

Also, shame on ATL for saying that posting her name is justified because she sent it in "such a way that it ended up in the Michigan listserve." WTF is that?! What does that mean!? Bring Lat back, at least he makes sense most of the time.

She forwarded the GT message to her friends and then added "feel free to pass along." I read that the same way I read happy hour e-mails or party invites saying "I probably missed someone, so feel free to pass along." That doesn't mean go ahead and invite the entire Michigan law school. This was one law student telling her friends about her GT experience and offering them to pass along to any friends they felt could use this info, i.e., if you're between GT and say, Wilmer, feel free to use this piece of info.

Anyway, this isn't about whether she "waived her rights to privacy" or "surrendered her identity" or "defamation," it's about whether you're a miserable unhappy asshole who takes the time and feels entitled to digup Facebook dirt on a 1L who had a bad experience at GT and wanted to share with her inner circle.

Even sadder, this turned into a racist anti-AA fest that included nasty name-calling based on lots of assumed facts by a lot of people. It was disgusting.

And by the way, this young lady will likely get a good job at a biglaw firm and make lots of money... you can bitch about this over burgers at whatever "true American" 4th of July BBQ, hopefully no black and brown people will show up to ruin the fun.

I said this at 10:28 and I guess I have to say it again now:

"She says in her e-mail 'Please feel free to pass it along...'"

it's not a big deal. seriously people. relax.

1L or otherwise, you're a moron.

"I read that the same way I read happy hour e-mails or party invites saying 'I probably missed someone, so feel free to pass along.'

She wasn't inviting people for mai tais at the W, she wanted to damage the recruitment chances of a firm she felt maligned/upset by. Whether she wanted it limited to her intimate circle of CLS friends, or the entire CLS community, or the entire New York LS community, or the LS community generally is *anybody's guess.* If she had the wherewithal to limit it, she'd say something like "This is something we should get out to others at CLS." But "feel free to pass it along" is a bit carte blanche in this cyberage, don't ya think?

I don't think, and wouldn't wish upon anyone flash internet notoreity for a minor foible -- but we truly live in an age of "user beware." TEH INTERNETS are an unforgiving place, and its denizens unforgiving mistresses who delight in dredging up dirt and unflattering facebook pictures. The bottom line? Play with fire, get burned.

There are a few problems with affirmative action, some of which include:
1) it benefits rich minorities, many of whom have been give every opportunity to suceed, but haven't
2) it leaves out people who are discriminated against, such as Arabs and Iranians
3) it creates an entitled class who have not hard to actually do that well to get to high places (the above email is a great example)

CLS = a bunch of know-it-all, whining, bitches.

From what I've seen here today, the real world is going to really suck for most of you. Leaving the cushy, idealist, nest of academia will be a real slap in the face.

My advice: try teaching.

I believe 5:16 and 5:19 above sum this incident up quite well.

Truth is? She probably wouldn't even get to go to the reception if not for AA. Enjoy the ride while you're at it, that's the way I see it.

Someone is who is 1/3 Latina, whose parents are professors, can blow the LSAT and get into a top 10 school.

An immigrant from Jordan whose parents clean houses is considered "white"

Same goes for Filipinos. Inconsistent.

"She wasn't inviting people for mai tais at the W"

Stating the obvious, good work, you must be really smart.

"she wanted to damage the recruitment chances of a firm she felt maligned/upset by"

Well, you don't know that. If I felt a law firm sucked, I'd pass it along to my friends. In fact, when I was going through OCI, I heard lots of valuable information from friends of mine about law firms. Let me tell you, my friends didn't want to hurt the law firms (you're such a moron), they wanted to help me out, the same way KF wanted to let her friends know about GT.

"If she had the wherewithal to limit it, she'd say something like..."

Go lookup what "wherewithal" means, son.

"But 'feel free to pass it along' is a bit carte blanche in this cyberage, don't ya think?"

And this is what you tell yourself as you frantically click through Facebook profiles, drooling over your keyboard, biting your lowe lip, looking for "anything" on a 1L at CLS... "if I get a picture my day would be perfect!!!!!"

You're a sad sad individual.

"herding minorities to get a photo-op is disgusting behavior."

Disgusting? Wait until you are a minority practicing in a firm. Trust me, it is going to get much worse. I am not saying ignore it, but you have to pick your battles so the white people who have never felt racism can't quickly write-off your claims of bias. These situations that can be interpreted in more than one way are never good ones to highlight. It makes you look like a whiner, and messes things up for other minorities. Now this partner is likely going to distance himself from minorities in the future so he doesn't get accused of being racist again.

You need evidence. Oh, wait. You just finished 1L and you haven't taken it yet.

KF, what's your LSAT score. Let's see how logical you are, and how far off the 172 average you were.

We shouldn't be letting people from Jordan into the US anyway. Haha.

Minority groups in law schools have certain myths. One is that pictures are only for recruiting brochures. Another one is that all the professors want to bone their students. We had this one professor who was accused of hitting on a woman because he invited her to sit next to him on the couch in his office. The problem is, this professor invited EVERYONE to sit next to him on the couch. The guy was almost 70, and falling apart.

I heard about the recruitng photo myth a number of years back. All photos of minorities are necessarily taken to be included in recruiting photos.

"Stating the obvious, good work, you must be really smart."

Thanks, my penis is huge, too!

"Well, you don't know that. If I felt a law firm sucked, I'd pass it along to my friends..."

I assume you would have the common sense not to memorialize your sentiment in a readily transferrable document and encourage them to "pass it along." Then again, the rest of your logic suggests that hey - you just might!

"Go lookup what 'wherewithal' means, son."

Hahaha I didn't know I was talking to Judge Baer. I know what wherewithal means, "son" - but sometimes I use it to describe things other than the means to buy a solid-gold anvil to drop on unsuspecting 1Ls-dressed-in-hapless-deadend-associates' clothing.

"And this is what you tell yourself as you frantically click through Facebook profiles... You're a sad sad individual."

Don't have a Facebook account, but I think the desire to see a picture of the subject -- hell, the desire to see a picture spawned its own internet acronym (POIDH) is a natural one. Besides, someone at autoadmit already did the work.

Sad? I've been typing this with a big, fat, grin on my face. Good luck on the bar!

5:34:

Exactly. That is how people think. Guess what, the Jordian kid from Columbia is going to have a tough time getting a job at certain law firms with partners that aren't too keen on Muslims (whether or not the Jordian kid is Muslim)

It never ceases to amaze me how many 1Ls (especially the retarded ones from CLS) don't know the secret to securing a decent BIGLAW job:

1. Do well in school
2. Shut the fuck up

Apparently KF didn't get the memo

5:46

Here, here. Take a note, fools!

Hey No one hears me | July 3, 2007 02:48 PM,

Asians also get AA in law school, just not as much as African Americans, Native Americans, and latinos.

You got a 165 on the LSAT. That sucks.

Anonymous | July 3, 2007 05:46 PM

It is pretty hard to fuck up at Columbia. Most people get B, even those in the bottom quartile of a class.

Does anyone know when CLS LR calls will go out on Thursday?

Dude, calls already went out...umm, sorry.

As for what actually happened, KF admits there were 2 other students present and I would like to know their interpretations of the GT partner's actions. I think corroboration would be warranted before we can take KF's account as truth. As for the criticism of KF, I do believe she brought it upon herself by mass emailing her story to friends and implicitly asking it be sent on. Given the gravity of her accusations I think criticism is warranted if she cannot prove anything more than her subjective interpretation of a chance meeting with a partner who probably had social awkwardness as many biglaw partners do. Hopefully she learns before she starts blasting off and having the product of her efforts end up on ATL. I would agree that many posts here have had racist tones to them and I do not condone such behavior, but from a professional standpoint I don't really know what KF was thinking. I don't think this will win her any friends when she actually goes through OCI because regardless of what happened during the event, she could have been a bit more smart in the way she handled it.

Howrey’s First-Year Texas Associates Earn $160,000
By Anne K. McMillan

Texas Lawyer

Tuesday, July 3, 2007

Washington, D.C.-based Howrey has bumped its starting salaries for first-year associates up to $160,000, effective July 1, Houston managing partner Steve Cagle says. The 635-lawyer firm also is ramping up work on a new merit-based compensation plan that will replace the old lockstep system of providing raises.

“I really love the fact that people are going to be able to make the choice of their own career path,” Cagle says. He notes that the merit-based plan will provide associates with choices they’ve indicated they want — accommodating those who want to bill 2,400 hours per year and make partner as quickly as possible as well as those who want to bill 1,900 hours per year and have a life outside the firm.

In addition, Cagle says, the merit-based system will “place a lot of pressure on the partners in the firm. . . . [It] represents a significant commitment on the part of partnership to get more involved in associate development.”

Focus groups, including several to be held in the 60-lawyer Houston office, outside consultants and the firm’s powers that be are working out factors for the merit-based system, which likely will include criteria such as productivity, quality and entrepreneurship.

Cagle expects the system to be in place by the first of the year.

Is it just me or do half the students at CLS seem really out of touch w/ reality?

I would have been thrilled to even be invited to a reception like this. Now, however, I know that people that work in firms like GT are so obnoxious and look down on anyone who doesn't work in a firm like that. That makes me glad that I didn't get a job there because I don't have the kind of energy it takes to act superior all the time when my real job is a step above mail room attendant.

Maybe she should get over it because if she is going to act all "I don't want them to show they are diverse", perhaps she should go be general counsel for the National Federation of the Blind.

GT should be thankful she is taking her whine somewhere else. With that naive attitude and hair-trigger racial defensiveness she will be in AA within 3 years, and out on her ass in 2.

A lot of lawyers are awkward in social situations and are socially retarded. It is unfair to interpret nerdiness as racism.

i see xo'ers are still jumping ship over here.

i can't believe that y'all actually passed the bar, given your absolute lack of critical thinking skills.

She needs to grow up.

I think KF should join the prestigious firm of Gallion and Spielgoveleleels (however those idiots' names). Talk about a "dream team."

The issue of whether this girl was justified in her claims of racism (or whatever she called it), is not terribly interesting. People are going to take up sides that have very little basis in actual fact regarding this particular event, based soley on their predetermined political and personal ideologies (and would probably still take the same sides even if they had the facts).

What is far more interesting, and a much more important lesson for many of the readers who are still a bit naive to the world is this ---

This sounds like a very naive person who decided to make a big deal out of a minor incident, and got one. The fact that she's asked to have her name withdrawn is evidence of her figuring out a little too late, "maybe this wasn't the best way to handle my complaints, and maybe it wasn't a situation that warranted a public outcry like I just made."

Sometimes, it's smart to keep your mouth shut (especially when you haven't actually suffered any perceivable damages), or at least remain anonymous when you're going to attempt to publicly shame a huge law firm for the possible indescretion of one partner while interviewing at other law firms in the same legal market.

At my law school, during our listserv wars, someone very smartly warned us once, don't write anything to a listserv that you wouldn't want the whole world to read.

If she had a legitimate complaint, and an ounce of common sense or self-preservation instinct, she would have talked to her school's career center about her issues and handled it through them. At the very WORST she would have emailed the firm's recruiting coordinator directly and PRIVATELY to address her concerns with them, but even that is pretty stupid and overly aggressive given how small the legal community is (and people talk).

Some people have mentioned that it is recruiting time so it's only natural for her to share her experiences with other students, but there's no reason she needs to do it over a listserv, especially when she's making charges as severe as she's making. Why not talk to her "friends" face to face (or email them privately)?

Unfortunately, some people have to learn the hard way. Whether you think this girl's complaints were justified, I suggest that you at least try to learn the lesson she learned too late -- not every dispute needs to be handled in public or in writing.

This girl has a lot of growing up to do before she's qualified for BigLaw life, not because she's a nuisance for being "upitty" (as some people have called her), but because she shows a severe lack of judgment in being able to preserve even her OWN interests, let alone a client's.

I've been a BigLaw secretary (yes, secretary) for the past 18 years. I'm a black woman. Right now we have about 30 summer associates running around the firm. If there's anything I've learned about these kids, it's that (a) so many of them are brats, and (b) so many of them are completely clueless about corporate culture nowadays. Figures - if you've never had a real job, you've been isolated in your little bubble, no idea what the real world is like.

Now, I won't sit back and just allow racism to happen (and I've seen my fair share at several firms, and spoken up on more than one occassion), but honey, you need to learn to pick your battles. Partners - most of them - are socially awkward and ungraceful. Get used to it. Law firms don't attract the most extroverted, people-friendly folks. Can I tell you the number of times I've been talked down to? And how many times it has been by a man or woman of color?

The issue is one of class and power. How the hell do you think I feel when some black female associate walks by and says, "Ugh, I cannot believe he thought I was a secretary." Well, first of all, ain't gonna happen considering you make so much damn money you can dress in those fancy ass suits, and second, I AM a "petty" secretary. That's right, call me a waste of a human behind the anonymity of your computer, but this was the best decision for me considering how I grew up. I'm proud of what I do and the opportunities I could give my kids with the salary I am making.

Now, this GT partner may have wanted to do a "diversity" photo op with you, but again - choose your battles. Wait until you're at the firm and you have a legitimate complaint before e-mailing half of the world.

And once your privileged Columbia degree havin' ass is actually at a firm, don't you dare disrespect your secretary. You have agency too, you know. You're playing the same, too. That $160K salary doesn't come without bumps in the road - to anyone.

Katie Fernandez asked to have HER name removed from the email SHE broadcast, but didn't ask to have the FIRM's name removed, huh? Sounds pretty hypocritcal to me.

Not so nice to have your name attached to something so incendiary is it? Maybe Katie Fernandez should have thought of that before dragging a firm's name through the mud in public half-cocked.

How about affirmative action for white gentiles? It's a mystery to me how they have the power to engage in all this secret discrimination people complain about but can only get about 20-25% of the spots at the top 5 law schools.

WTF? What is is with these kids and their entitlements? And if I hear the term "unfair" one more time I'm gonna lose my top. Is it fair I drive a pickup truck to school and the prick sitting next to me drives a Benz? Is it fair I went to work to make enough money to put myself through undergrad and law school when the prick next to me gets an allowance from mommy and daddy. Is it fair I can't afford all the supplements because I have to feed my kids. Is it fair my law school dropped in th rankings because the administration sucks? Give me a fucking break. Life isn't fair you mother f'er. At least you get invited to these events. I get GD listserv emails every week inviting minorities to apply for scholarships the white boys can't apply for. Shut your fucking pie hole and get off momma's tit before you start complaining.

The other week I asked a summer if she would like to follow up on an admittedly tedious project and her response was "pppfftt."

I took that as a "no."

i don't get why this girl actually posed for the picture when she was clearly uncomfortable. she should have opted out of the photo op if this guy was such a freak.

i wouldn't be surprised if she's just trying to deter others from bidding for GT so that she would have a better chance.

i'm a minority female, too, and I would never play the race card like KF just did. People on this post are right: suck it up. Law students think they're like supreme court justices, talking about racism and the first amendment, whining about how "unfair" the world is. Law is a JOB, nothing more nothing less. Now go review some documents and feed your kids.

Hello.

Just have to say I'm white and I really wouldn't want to go to a firm where all the pictures were white people. I saw a Scandinavian commercial once with like 6 (tall and blonde, blue-eyed) girls who looked like sextuplets, and it frankly looked bizarre.

The primary reason KF was so taken aback by her interaction is that partners have been conditioned to handle minorities with kid gloves, and save their asshole comments/attitudes for white males (and, to a lesser extent, females). When the beast inside every partner attacks a minority instead of the usual white associate punching bag, everyone freaks the F out.

Ramona-

Good comment. Post more.

I think Lat/this blog should do some posts on big law secretary and/or paralegal salaries or do something else to encourage more non-lawyer big law employees to post. I think we would all gain a lot of insight and - far more importantly - we would gain hilarious stories and gossip.

Anon

12:00 - yeah, I'd hate working some place with a lot of attractive women.

After having read all 200 something postings, I think that what becomes clear is that most people, of color or not, find her RESPONSE to be inexcusable, and not the action of the alleged racism. In today's culture, racism is completely unacceptable in the workplace. Minorities continue to have an uphill battle, but they have proven over and over again that they are not only competent and qualified to be in the top law firms, but that they add diversity to a once extremely undiversified occupation.

I can't say that Katie Fernandez had good intentions because I don't know for sure (no one really does). But she showed an extremely poor exercise of judgment. Not only has she jeopardized her own chances at a successful legal career, but she has unfortunately set minorities back further in the legal profession. Partners should be able to thow shitty memos back at both white and non white summer associates without worrying that they will be accused on discrimination. By singling herself out in an incident which can easily be chalked up to a stupidly awkward partner who didn't want to be there, wanted to do his business and get out, she has only furthered the uphill battle minorities face.

She just needs to grow up, and when she does, the legal profession will be better for it.

12:00PM... what was the name of that firm?

Katie Fernandez--the name that is being circulated around big law recruiting offices as we speak--good luck getting a job now.

Maybe she can learn something else from this experience (since she hasn't learned it during college or law school):

When you want people to treat you a certain way because of your race, you are no longer an individual judged on your merits, but a straw man (or a prop as the case may be) symbolizing the presence of your race among a group of people. If you want to be like everyone else (judge solely on your merits) then you will have to be treated like everyone else. If you think you are entitled to deference or special treatment because you are a minority, you will not get treated like everyone else. Its the old double-edged sword.

Katie Fernandez--the name that is being circulated around big law recruiting offices as we speak--good luck getting a job now.

Maybe she can learn something else from this experience (since she hasn't learned it during college or law school):

When you want people to treat you a certain way because of your race, you are no longer an individual judged on your merits, but a straw man (or a prop as the case may be) symbolizing the presence of your race among a group of people. If you want to be like everyone else (judge solely on your merits) then you will have to be treated like everyone else. If you think you are entitled to deference or special treatment because you are a minority, you will not get treated like everyone else. It's the old double-edged sword.

"The issue is one of class and power. How the hell do you think I feel when some black female associate walks by and says, "Ugh, I cannot believe he thought I was a secretary." Well, first of all, ain't gonna happen considering you make so much damn money you can dress in those fancy ass suits, and second, I AM a "petty" secretary. That's right, call me a waste of a human behind the anonymity of your computer, but this was the best decision for me considering how I grew up. I'm proud of what I do and the opportunities I could give my kids with the salary I am making."

The issue isn't that one's mistaken for a secretary, it's that the female (especially black)/attorney connection is, clearly, a difficult thing for some (white, male) partners to get their minds around. I've never, ever heard of a white male being mistaken for anything at my firm, though I know several females who have been mistaken for secretaries and black males who have been mistaken for staff. It's not who you're mistaken for, it's that you're presumed not to be an attorney.

Great comment Ramona.

Slightly off topic but why are "not white male" and "diversity" treated as equivalent?

Who brings a more "diverse" viewpoint to the office: a white male who grew up an orphan and ward of the state, or a black chick who grew up in Orange County, CA, had her parents pay her way through USC, took Kaplan classes to get an LSAT score that got her into Duke Law, and ended up at [nameyourbigfirm]?

Trick question. If answered that question yes or no, how would you really friggen know? You're just judging someone based on a very limited set of objective facts, and that's bullshit either way you try to answer it. The answer is, you can't know if someone brings "diverse" viewpoints and cultures until you really know that person.

The day business and government realizes "diversity" DOES NOT equal "black people" will be a great victory toward ending racism and discrimination.

Was it a yes or no question?

sorry, I'm retarded... i meant "one or the other." See, if it wasn't for AA I would have gone to a better school and learned how to think. :)

Ramona: thanks. Getting insights from someone who chose to spend her secretarial career in of all places biglaw is deep. When I quit law, I am going to work as an "administrative assistant" for a cardiology group and write trite posts about young doctors' naivete and arrogance.

Reading the pathetic whining of law students/lawyers who were born on third base thinking they hit a fuckin' triple has been hilarious.

How about you all read a book, you illiterate bunch of sons of bitches-

http://www.amazon.com/When-Affirmative-Action-White-Twentieth-Century/dp/0393052133

Your so called "qualifications" have been gained at the expense of others and are a complete fabrication of "merit" undertaken to hide the truth behind the social disparities created by the majority.

And now your cry and whine because you think you've hit a fucking triple because you're standing on third base??!! "But what about me and my qualifications?? lsat blah, gpa blah, blah blah. blah."

The reason so many "qualified" students get rejected from the top schools is because their lives are BORING and PATHETIC and UNIMAGINATIVE and devoid of any real CHALLENGES.

Listening to Dre and Snoop in the 90's as you rode around in the car GIVEN to you by your parents does not give you a worthwhile life that sets you apart from the fucking clone next to you. You still grew up suburban with a silver spoon up your ass and there are tons of you running around this country all trying to do the same BORING ASS SHIT. Honestly, anyone growing up this way should be rejected from the top schools, both white and black and purple. Whining about how a couple of the minority kids that grew up with you got a 'break' doesn't show an ounce of fortitude. You were born on third base. and NO, YOU DIDN'T HIT A FUCKING TRIPLE. Your parents and ancestors stole their way to third.

Let me squat and shit on all of you ignorant fools making stupid comments from the top 5 of the law school world....and then get on my way to propping my feet up on the desk while I get my dick sucked by every firm in the country just because of where I go to school. Its YOUR SYSTEM and YOU MADE IT so stop fucking crying.

Everyone get a dildo and get a life.

This is getting ridiculous. I'll put it to you like this: Did KF overreact? Yes. Are the REACTIONS to her overreaction a bit too much? YES.

Someone else pointed this out but it bears repeating. Class is more important than race in determining economic, and academic success. Nothing pissed me off more in law school than the thought many of my peers felt I somehow didn't belong or I somehow skated by on race alone. Hell I was an electrical engineering major at Columbia. Try getting great grades in that versus some bs major like poli sci. Yet if I told anyone that in undergrad I "only" had a 3.4 GPA, they'd probably roll their eyes and assume that the only reason I got in was race. THat's why I am for abolishing race based preferences of any sort. Aside from the fact they're no longer needed, I don't want to give whites any more excuses for not valuing my presence. Moreover, I have seen TOO MANY privileged minorities who led much better lives than many whites benefit from affirmative action. My freshman year at CU, I had two interesting people on my dorm floor. One was a white girl from a trailer park in Plantation, Florida (I've never been there but it doesn't sound like the type of place I'll ever want to visit), the other was a black kid from White Plains whose parents were both surgeons. The thought that he was somehow a beneficiary of AA was simply hilarious to me.

However, I also think that the constant "wait til she gets in the 'real world' refrain is irrelevant." Just as you can't compare what passes as adequate work product from a summer to what is expected of a mid-level associate, you can't say that a CLS 2L will be incapable of succeeding in the practice of law if this is her current attitude.

I didn't go to CLS but I went to CU for undergrad so I can somewhat relate to those who think the school is full of race-baiting whiners. If I had my druthers, I'd eliminate race based AA as well as legacy kids to even it out.

God, what a bunch of suck ups. This woman saw she was being treated with disrespect and used and didn't want to be used. She called them on it. Good for her.

No wonder all most of you can do here is whine about your salaries. This is the mentality you end up with when you lose your balls and self respect to play biglaw.

1:36am - Keepin' it real huh?

--- "When Keepin' it real, goes wrong."

The idea that BIGLAW firms want a "diversity of viewpoints and experiences," especially among junior associates, is laughable. What kind of diversity of experience and opinion can you bring to endless hours of doc review/due diligence? Even on more substantive work assignments, it's the partners' way or the highway.
Thus, the idea of "diversity" at law firms is really just for show.

I was in a similar situation at a reception held at a biglaw firm. I was asked to pose for a photo with the speaker at the event and two other Black females in attendance. The photographer kept asking me to pose in a picture with my "friends", however we did not know each other at all, we just happened to be the only black women in attendance. I was extremely annoyed in the situation, but looking back, I was happy to get my picture in the paper with the speaker at the event and sent a copy to my mother who was quite proud.

I feel bad for KF. I would never go as far as she did, because I could not handle the attacks that she is receiving right now. A lot of you are extremely cruel. She does have to realize that this type of thing happens at EVERY firm.

02:02 PM - Well said.

2:43 PM - you said "While being a minority certainly isn't a "free pass" into CLS, being such CAN and DOES gain you admittance when you would otherwise be denied (if you were, say, white)."

You know who else gains admittance when you they otherwise be denied? Being a legacy student, i.e., being the child or grandchild of an alum. This was about 10-15% of my class, and guess whose parents were most likely to have attended my school: That's right, white students. People are "let into" schools for all sorts of dumb reasons unrelated to race, and it is ignorant to assume that if you take 'race' out of the equation, all will be fair. Whites have an advantage through legacy, why shouldn't minorities get a similar advantage considering their parents and grandparents were overtly excluded from college educations for much of the last century?

Thank you, Annie. A lot of the commenters here are federalist society, conservative-type scum. They are entitled, embittered people. Allowing them to let off some steam can be a good thing.

Annie's comment is just as racist.

Minorities Against Affirmative Action ("MAAA")

Association for the Abolishment of Legacy College Admissions ("ACLA")

Affirmative Action should not benefit privileged minorities- shame on the middle class (and above middle class) minorities who took a free pass when a poor white kid who grew up in a trailer park or on a farm could have been admitted!

At least the poor white kid would have the sense of social responsibility to give back to the community which is not the case with snobby affluent minorities!

Affirmative Action is a flawed system which has outworn its welcome!

Once upon a time, a wise man named Martin had a dream . . .

I say to you today, my friends, so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

I have a dream today.

I have a dream that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of interposition and nullification; one day right there in Alabama, little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers.

I have a dream today.

I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together.

This is our hope. This is the faith that I go back to the South with. With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day.

This will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with a new meaning, "My country, 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my fathers died, land of the pilgrim's pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring."

And if America is to be a great nation this must become true. So let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire. Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York. Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania!

Let freedom ring from the snowcapped Rockies of Colorado!

Let freedom ring from the curvaceous slopes of California!

But not only that; let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia!

Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee!

Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill of Mississippi. From every mountainside, let freedom ring.

And when this happens, When we allow freedom to ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"

Can't we all - black, white, asian, hispanic - focus on the real problem? The Jew.

Dr. King's dream presupposes a level playing field. We are a long way off from that.

Annie,

I'm a white male who was raised by a single mother in subsidized housing, never went to high school, studied for & took the GED on my own, worked full time to put myself through college, never took a prep course for anything in my life...stop your stupid generalizations that all white people in law school are rich & privileged.

I am crying with laughter at some of the comments on this thread. They're hilarious (some intentionally so, and others not).

This was not a reception for just Columbia students. There were GT receptions all over the country in all their offices that day.

Who gives two s***s, correction maker? It was a Columbia student who whined about it.

I’m white, have an LSAT score below Columbia’s average, and went to a mediocre undergrad. Yet I still got into CLS and nearly all of the other top 20 schools I applied to because I worked hard on my applications and have done interesting things with my free time. For all out there whining that some minority took your spot at a top school—quit complaining and just face the fact that you didn’t make the cut.

I went to a Cooley Godward Reception and met an awkward/weird/asshole litigation partner. I just assumed it was because he was a litigation partner and not because I was a white male, but this makes me wonder.

The racism inherent in KF's letter boggles the mind. It seems likely that KF believed the partner to be racist because of the color of his skin. She doesn't know what box that partner checks when the diversity form comes around. He may be Black, Asian, Native American, Openly Gay, or Latino himself. He may check all of them at once.

Her inference that the partner intended to use the photograph to show how diverse the firm was seems highly suspect. Partners seem unlikely to be concerned about making sure they get good photos with minorities for a possible diversity publication. The HR department or the firms marketing people would be much more likely culprits than a partner.

KF's belief that the partner only spoke to them because he wanted a photograph with them seems potentially plausible from the facts she decided to include in the email. The further step of inferring that he wanted that photograph because he might gain a business advantage from a photograph of himself with minorities seems unreasonable. It seems more likely that he was attracted to one of them, but didn't want to make a move because he was nervous and awkward. Instead, he called the photographer over to snap a quick photo so he could later use it for masturbatory material. It seems much much more likely that the partner possessed an inflated ego and considered himself something of a big name at the firm. From such a viewpoint, he may have thought that he was doing them a favor by giving them a chance to have a picture of themselves with one of the stars of the legal profession.

Annie at 11:23 - nice racist comment. And I'm not white, and did go to an Ivy League undergrad, and there were a lot of smart white people along with a lot of smart people in general.

Columbia Law student at 11:53 -- you have got to be fucking kidding me. How can you really justify the current AA system solely based on so-called "white privilege"?

AA helps blacks and Latinos, but not Asians. You can make an argument that blacks have been more oppressed than whites (slam dunk, perhaps), but how do you make that argument for Latinos vs. Asians? Shouldn't AA help Asians too if it's about "white privilege"?

If you live in LA, you probably know Persians and Armenians and plenty of other people who are considered "white" -- but are they necessarily from a privileged background? Do they have "white privilege"? Shouldn't AA help them too then?

And for those of you who think schools are getting the same quality student as an AA candidate, read the amicus brief from the AAMC for Grutter:
http://www.aamc.org/diversity/amicusbrief.pdf

And then read UCLA Law's Prof. Sander's paper. And read it with an open mind, because it's based on empirical evidence rather than your subjective feelings.

Partners don't give a shit about "diversity" sweetie. It's all about getting clients who insist on diversity because they don't want to get a Sharpton or Jessie Jackson shake down with the ensuing bad publicity.

We need AA for us Jewish people. We're the most oppressed. Don't forget oncentration camps! We are a minority and we need AA!

Boo hoo for her. What did she expect? The minorities at my law school played up their non-whiteness to no end. The problem is that minority law students are so used to being pandered to they are shocked when their butts aren't being kised or they aren't being lauded for their spectacular acheivement of actually going to law school despite being un-white. Again, when minorities make a big deal about being in groups like BLSA they should not be suprised when they are used as props.

Plus, every single non-white got a "Dean's award" for their contributions to the law school. Even my wife, who doesn't care about this type of stuff, thought it was humiliating for them.

Listen to yourselves. "Big whoop", "no big deal", get over it.." Why should being treated in a shitty manner by laywers be the accepted norm? Grow a spine and start demanding more!

Do you people realize that by grouping 'females and minorities' together that you're encompassing 75% of the population? You guys really need to grow up.

Ok, just had to call abovethelaw out on this one:

Note: Because the student appears to have forwarded her e-mail in such a way that it ended up on a University of Michigan listserv, we think we're justified in including her name. We have, however, altered all e-mail addresses so they won't be attacked by spam.

You justify identifying this student because a third party posted it to a listserv. What are your standards other times? Let's see:

A Very Odd Summer Associate Assignment

EMAIL SENT BY SUMMER ASSOCIATE TO LAW SCHOOL LISTSERV

From: [redacted]
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 12:35 PM
To: [Listserve for a top five law school]
Subject: The Exploding Steam Pipe Memo

A Heartfelt F.U. Farewell to Greenberg Traurig LLP (and Biglaw)

(But please don't name the individual who sent this letter. We've intentionally redacted his name from the missive. Thanks.)

The X-Summers: Submissions, Please

* Generally we don't reveal the names of people involved in embarrassing or tawdry situations. This is why Aquagirl is Aquagirl, or the Katten Kreep is the Katten Kreep.

Must be ATL's AA program to allow for such exceptions.

I love self-righteous senses of entitlement

Did this girl get an offer?

You guys are all white, racist assholes! I'm glad she told off GT. Covert bigots like that attorney make me sick. She's definitely better off w/o GT on her résumé.

White racists NEVER see proof of racially motivated inappropriate behavior. Perhaps, in the next life, the shoe may be on the other foot.

I go to school with the girl. She actually got plenty of offers, including some V10 firms. So maybe speaking up didn't hurt her. Also, maybe BigLaw is trying to change their ways.

Im black and that girl is whack!

you guys are horrible. the fact of the matter is that she was standing upon the priciple that she does not want to be hired to a firm as mere decoration. Before she even started working she had an incident which clearly demonstrated how at least some of the staff at GT saw her. As an advertisement, not as a real attorney. For all of you from lily white backgrounds, you expose your racism by expecting her to be happy with her lot. She should just be so excited that this poor law firm even decided to look at her. That sort of viewpoint is pathetic. KF probably scored higher than all of you yet just because she wants to be respected for her mind rather than her skin color you guys castigate her and try and embarass her all over the web. You are sick. Its a new year, try and examine yourself and see why it makes you so uncomfortable that a minority wants to be respected for their accomplishments rather than their skin color.

you guys are horrible. the fact of the matter is that she was standing upon the priciple that she does not want to be hired to a firm as mere decoration. Before she even started working she had an incident which clearly demonstrated how at least some of the staff at GT saw her. As an advertisement, not as a real attorney. For all of you from lily white backgrounds, you expose your racism by expecting her to be happy with her lot. She should just be so excited that this poor law firm even decided to look at her. That sort of viewpoint is pathetic. KF probably scored higher than all of you yet just because she wants to be respected for her mind rather than her skin color you guys castigate her and try and embarass her all over the web. You are sick. Its a new year, try and examine yourself and see why it makes you so uncomfortable that a minority wants to be respected for their accomplishments rather than their skin color.

you guys are horrible. the fact of the matter is that she was standing upon the priciple that she does not want to be hired to a firm as mere decoration. Before she even started working she had an incident which clearly demonstrated how at least some of the staff at GT saw her. As an advertisement, not as a real attorney. For all of you from lily white backgrounds, you expose your racism by expecting her to be happy with her lot. She should just be so excited that this poor law firm even decided to look at her. That sort of viewpoint is pathetic. KF probably scored higher than all of you yet just because she wants to be respected for her mind rather than her skin color you guys castigate her and try and embarass her all over the web. You are sick. Its a new year, try and examine yourself and see why it makes you so uncomfortable that a minority wants to be respected for their accomplishments rather than their skin color.

I am white, and I have a black fiancee. When we went to the greenberg Traurig holdiay party this past Christmas, we both felt very welcomed. The partners and associates were kind and outgoing and I did not spot any latent bigotry. So, if the partner in this scenario did in fact act with bigotry, it was an isolated instance and not a characteristic of a multi-cultural firm such as GT.