Our Apologies to All Former Policy Debaters (Except the Creepy Ones)
In a recent post about Peter Barta, the Legal Aid lawyer who allegedly videotaped his female colleagues as they were getting undressed, we ranked on policy debaters.
Maybe we should take it back. From a highly informative reader email:
Former policy debaters, please accept our apologies. We did extemp and L-D debate in high school, and we generally viewed C-X debaters with suspicion. They struck us as kids who talked reallyreallyfast, warning constantly of nuclear war. But maybe we were wrong.Not all former policy debaters are creeps. Here's a list of former policy debaters who are current or future legal rock stars:
Justice Samuel Alito, Judge Merrick Garland, Larry Tribe, Louis Kaplow, Erwin Chemerinsky, NYU President John Sexton, Jonathan Massey, David Boies, Tom Goldstein, Rebecca Tushnet, Annie Kastanek (OT 2007/Kennedy), and John Hughes (OT 2005/Thomas; pictured at right, captured in mid-debate).
To paraphrase the "ignorant tipster" from the Oona O'Connell story: "We feel kind of bad that we prejudged them. Sorry to sound like an afterschool special. But you know what? Perhaps we learned a lesson today. Good on you. 'The more you know.'"
Earlier: Reading the Bartameter (Part 3): What Is Up With Those Policy Debaters?
(40) 
First
Look guy, we all get that you think you're being cool. But really, could you give it a rest, I'm tired of being this vigilant.
What kind of debating is the kind where they talk really fast and no one can understand them and they mostly just jabber away? I have a hard time taking anyone who is that proud of that kind of debate.
cross x debate is fast talking debate. it was sometimes called policy debate.
There are multiple high level policy debaters on that Bartlit Beck roster aside from Hughes, including Brian Prestes (OLC & Lynch (1st Cir.)) and Paul Skiermont (Beam 8th Cir.))
isnt everyone who was on the high school debate team a dork? c-x, l-d.... blah, blah, blah.....you were all home alone on weekend nights playiing d&d
I respectfully suggest that the "creep" status of the people on that list is up for debate. Being an accomplished lawyer and a "creep" are certainly not mutually exclusive.
-- Preserving a strong economy is key to preventing Global Nuclear War
Hundreds of millions--billions--of people have pinned their hopes on the international market economy. They and their leaders have embraced market principles--and drawn closer to the west--because they believe that our system can work for them.
But what if it can't? What if the global economy stagnates--or even shrinks? In that case, we will face a new period of international conflict: South against North, rich against poor. Russia, China, India--these countries with their billions of people and their nuclear weapons will pose a much greater danger to world order than Germany and Japan did in the 30s.
Turn: Nuclear Malthus. World is overcrowded anyway. Might as well kill a few off.
CX takes no talent at all (except speaking fast). CX judges are though the biggest idiots who do noting but check off things that some idiot HS kid has mouthed off. This whole thing is so preposterous and widespread, I'm surprised 60 minutes hasn't done an expose on the ridiculousness of what everyone pretends is an academic endeavor.
There are lots of famous policy debaters because that's all there was back in the day. You'd be hard pressed to find a young star who did anything but LD or Extemp.
How lame am I to care.
www.debatechamps.com !!!
High school debate team = bunch of geeks with no social skills
2:43: "high level policy debaters" -- is that like high level D&D characters?
Walter Mead and Policy Debate 2L -- Both of you should be ashamed of all your nuclear speak.
debate haters = jealous assholes
Policy Debate 2L:
L/T, Tech = increased ability of the world to support life. World has not reached saturation point for resource useage.
(does need a better distrobution system though)
Anon 3:06: you're just flat out wrong. Extempt has existed since the 1930s. So has Student Congress. LD has existed as a national competitive event since the late 1970s. One thing that apparently hasn't changed about LD debaters is their willful disdain for evidence and facts.
http://www.nflonline.org/uploads/NationalTournament/nt601sec3.pdf
Anon 3:06: you're just flat out wrong. Extemp has existed since the 1930s. So has Student Congress. LD has existed as a national competitive event since the late 1970s. One thing that apparently hasn't changed about LD debaters is their willful disdain for evidence and facts.
http://www.nflonline.org/uploads/NationalTournament/nt601sec3.pdf
MASTER DEBATORS AND CUNNING LINGUISTS UNITE AGAINST OPPRESSION
2:50,
Uh, hello? You *can't* play D&D alone-- you need at least one player and a DM. Geez.
4:29 gets the L2L "post of the day" award
I love the walter mead reference. How many times did I read that exact quote I wonder?
What about good old Zalmay Khalilzhad? anyone got his nuclear scenario's just lying around?
Hegemony good forever bitches!!!
You left Justice Scalia off your list of legal superstars with policy debate experience. For shame. Scalia was a debater for Georgetown. Another debate superstar worth mentioning is Rebecca Tushnet of Harvard - She attended YLS, clerked for Judge Becker and then Justice Souter, and is not a professor at NYU.
Two other thoughts: The speed aspect of policy debate may not improve your communication skills, but I've never done anything that was nearly as effective in improving critical thinking skills under pressure. The speed allows for greater depth of argumentation during a good debate, and the compressed time periods of the rebuttal speeches force you to prioritize the key arguments you need to win the round. Done properly, this allows you to develop valuable skills in understanding the interrelationships between complex issues in a setting where you have to process a large volume of information during a short period of time - anyone who thinks this isn't valuable training for litigation is nuts.
Second thought - whoever busted out the Mead card was brilliant.
2:59 FTW.
Could probably quote that from memory.
Correction - Tushnet is "now" a professor at NYU; I, like many others, am "not" a professor at NYU.
I'm Walter Mead and I am really getting a kick out of this thread.
5:20, Tushnet was not left off the original list. She's even hyperlinked.
Anon 3:34: Extempt and LD only became popular widely competed in the 80's....
Sad little CX'er holding onto a card, but can't think for himself.
LD is for kids who couldn't hack it in policy and wanted to talk about Rawls all day.
Policy debate is amazing - I work at a big NYC law firm - and a lot of the litigators that I have met were cx-debator.
Policy debate is amazing - I work at a big NYC law firm - and a lot of the litigators that I have met were cx-debator.
More policy debaters/legal stars:
Michael Gottlieb (OT/2004 Stevens) at Wilmer DC
Mike Gottlieb is short.
LD'ers are running the companies for which Mike Gottlieb will do work.
Heya Mike if ya read this.
You know what's funny, the guy who started victorybriefs, Victor Jih, is a partner at OMM.
+1 for the LDers
snooooze
I'm so swooning over the debate posts on ATL this week. As if I weren't already in love with this site!
As I walk through the hallways of the shadow of Nats,
I take a look a look at my files, and realize they're not there.
Cause I've been cuttin' and pastin' so long that,
Even my partner thinks that my mind is gone.
But I ain't never crossed a 1N that didn't deserve it,
Need be treated like a punk, runnin that kritic crap.
So, you better watch how you talkin' - and what you flowin,
or you and yo partner might be sleepin in da mo'nin.
I missed da case flip, but I gotta T.
As they vote I see myself in the final-round, fool,
I'm the kinda d the little Novi's wanna be like,
With my cigs and a light, doin' Lexis in da late night.
Been Spendin' most of life, Research is a debata's paradise!
Been Spendin' most of life, Research is a debata's paradise!
Keep Spendin' most our lifes, Research is a debata's paradise!
Keep Spendin' most our lifes, Research is a debata's paradise!
Forget 'bout graduation, they got me 'ferin', I could live a normal life.
I was raised by the VO,
So I gotta be down with the novi team,
To much television watchin' stop me cuttin cards.
I am an educated fool with coachin on my mind,
Got a DA in my hand, and the gleam in my eye,
I'm a low down debata disad-flipin' Cherub,
And my hommey's are down 3 - don't arouse me anger, fool,
Last loss ain't nuthin' but a bad judge away,
I'm debatin life do or die, what can I say?
I'm 2 & 3, so will I live to see Triple-Octs?
The ways things are goin I dunno,
Tell me why are we, so blind to see, that the ones to beat, is _ _ _ ?
Been Spendin' most of life, Lexis is the debata's paradise
Been Spendin' most of life, Lexis is the debata's paradise
Keep Spendin' most our lifes, Lexis is the debata's paradise
Keep Spendin' most our lifes, Lexis is the debata's paradise
Dis Ad or the caseflip, caseflip or the Dis Ad,
Minute after minute, hour after hour,
Everybody's spewin,
But half of them ain't flowin, what's goin on in da 2A.
And I dunno what's winnin.
They say I got to learn, but nobody's here to teach me,
If they can't understand T, how can they reach me?
I guess they can't, I guess they won't, I guess I'll move.
That's when I know my life is outta luck fool!
Been Spendin' most of life, Livin' in a debata's paradise
Been Spendin' most of life, Livin' in a debata's paradise
Keep Spendin' most our lives, Livin' in a debata's paradise
Keep Spendin' most our lives, Livin' in a debata's paradise
Tell me why are we,
so blind to see,
that the ones to beat,
is _ _ _?
Tell me why are we,
so blind to see,
that the ones to beat,
is _ _ _?
Ara Lovitt: 1993 NDT Champ. OT 1998/Scalia
JRoss: Gulliver Prep A Team (99-01) - A&P DC
contrary to popular belief, being a debate does NOT automatically mean having a lack of life. and policy debate is love. :] the end.