"At my firm the associates have to pay the partners bar fees and ABA dues, it's outrageous!!"

Lat this is the dumbest thread ever.... what biglaw firm doesn't pay bar fees and ABA dues?

You guys need to shut up, it's better than your blog. I'm tired of the constant moaning.

Hughes Hubbard & Reed

If you are doing a clerkship, make sure ahead of time that the firm includes bar expenses separate from the bonus or other stipends.

It sounds ridiculous, but a friend of mine had a falling out with a fairly large Cleveland-based firm, as they tried to weasel the bar expenses out of his compensation package by arguing that they were included in the clerkship bonus. Eventually, it was sorted out and they included the expenses separately. But, the whole debacle left such a bad taste in his mouth (this was 2 months before he was to start), that he ended up bailing and signing on with another firm.

A number of BigLaw firms limit the number of bar fees they will pay. For example, they will only pay for the jurisdiction of the office you are in. Considering the small amounts we are talking about and that these firms do business in most jurisdictions, it seems pretty cheap.

The Texas "occupation tax"?

Is that one of the taxes they impose on you to make up for having no state income tax?

Occupation tax exists in every state, or almost every state - it's a business license, but individual professionals have to be licensed individually, even if they work at a firm.

Lat, How about doing parental leave policies? I don't even know what my own firm's is.

My firm (DC office of one of the Chicago Big 3) does not pay for ABA membership dues, let alone section dues. As you all have pointed out, this is ridiculous, and therefore I think this thread will be interesting.

Please help me shame my firm by pointing out what firms pay these dues, and how many sections they will pay for.

12:40 - you must be at Winston & Strawn. C'mon, why would a firm want to pay to keep its attorneys in good standing in the states in which they're admitted to practice? This "good standing" hooey only benefits the associates - not the firm's partners - who have the privilege of paying money so the firm can continue to squeeze profits out of them.

12:39 - Weil, Gotshal let's Daddy's take a whole month off when they have a kid.

Skadden pays for two jurisdictions.

12:57: That's generous. Many firms pay for only one jurisdiction.

12:16 + 12:18, from the text of the post it's clear Lat didn't expect this to be a barnburner. He even tagged it under "Boring stuff."

"The magazine’s editor-in-chief Aric Press writes that big firms have so far not been able to differentiate themselves in terms of salary, which has reached $160,000 for first-years, but at $200,000 they will"

Lat is late on breaking WSJ coverage of AMLAW associate survey.

That's not breaking news, it's commentary. I'm sure Lat will get to it when he gets to it.

I think shirt off your back is confused. I didn't think this was about license fees, but rather about bar associations.

My cheap NY Top 25 AmLaw 100 firm pays for a couple of years of your City Bar dues. They also told us they cover the initial membership fee for either NYSBA of the City Bar, but whichever it was, the fee is waived by the association for new admits (some perk!).

They semi-recently added a new policy: If you join a section AND become actively involved in projects, committees, etc., they will pay a portion of the section/committe dues.

For most people, after your second year you don't get anything.

@12:56

"Weil, Gotshal let's Daddy's take a whole month off when they have a kid."

Your firm could do with a remedial grammar class.

What about attorney's professional liability insurance?

My AmLaw100 firm pays a $5,000 stipend to incoming first years that is supposed to cover bar costs (there is no moving sitpend or other payment). They then pay the annual dues for the jurisdiction we are in, as well as the ABA and specialty bar association. I pay for my own second jurisdiction, and for any CLEs I can't pick up at firm-reimbursed conferences and events.

"[M]ost big firms pay for bar fees and ABA dues . . . ."

Don't most firms, whether biglaw or not, pay bar fees? I think it is somewhat ludicrous for a firm to require its attorneys (particularly its associates) to pay their own bar fees...

I was at Skadden and they only paid for two jurisdictions. I am at a smaller firm now and they pay for all 3 of my jurisdictions.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought basically all law firms (and not just the "Biglaw approved" /"AMLaw Accredited Top 100" firms) pay for bar dues, ABA dues and that sort of thing? I thought the only firms that didn't cover them are the 2-3 attorney mom and pop places that are often an ethical violation waiting to happen.

Oh and thank you for a stimulating topic- next up let's discuss the "Biglaw" perk of having an illegal immigrant, working as a janitor, come in and vaccuum your office after hours. Vroom Vroom !!

12:53 -- I agree with you for the most part, but many DC firms DO pay bar memberships for 2 jurisdictions, because most DC associates were admitted to a state bar before becoming admitted in DC. In my DC firm, I have been asked to sign court papers based on my Virginia bar membership (and I'm not even a litigator). I can't exactly say, "I'm sorry, but I pay to keep my Virginia license up for my own benefit."

Is there any reason to join the ABA?

If you do not sign with a law firm before beginning your clerkship, will the average large law firm give you the bar stipend when you arrive post clerkship?

1:27 -- Why would you think the 2-3 atty "mom and pop" law offices are an ethical violation waiting to happen?

I work for one of these in an area with about 75,000 people. The biggest firms around have maybe 10 lawyers. My firm pays my bar dues, CLE credit, and pretty much anything else I ask for within reason. They bought me a copy of my state code as well.

I can take any case that I want, and I'm in court all the time after only 1 year in practice.

Forget about biglaw!

I even have my own state code!!!

I bet your office phone # is 1-800-MYLEMON

I know that some NYC biglaw firms won't cover bar fees in states where they don't have a location.

1:27 & 1:39 -- I have worked in Biglaw for 5 years and have seen lots of people doing shady things that go unnoticed because no one is paying attention or cares.

I also know of several Biglaw firms that don't pay ABA or section dues and that make an issue out of the cost of CLEs and traveling to a legitimate CLE, rather than attending in-house drafting workshops and ethics presentations.

1:43 -- Actually, I do corporate work mainly and represent many local corporations. Have fun at work at 1:00 AM this morning. I'll be at your house hanging with your wife :)

Will firms pay bar/bri expenses (i.e. let you keep the money) if you are a bar/bri rep and your payment for being a rep is a free bar course?

Heck no, 2:03! It's only reimbursement for actual expense. You're a sucker.

what about membership of ethnic bar associations, like National Hispanic Bar Assoc. or something, or Energy Bar Assoc. if you will? Do firms pay those?

I am 2:03. It still is an actual expense. I worked for the money. It's just rather than money, I am paying in labor.

Anonymous Associate -- You're going to "hang" with his wife?" So, what will you guys be doing, playing Yahtzee? If you want to go after somebody, go for the jugular. I can think of a word that rhymes with "hanging" that would've been more effective.

Lat, do a thread on dinner budgets and late night car service. I might be working late tonight.

No wonder many biglaw types seem so young for so long. It's apparent they never have to take care of anything on ther own. And when they do, they just start whining until someone takes care of it or pays for it for them. Biglaw as the parents of parishilton associates.

So many of you are so amusing.

Winston & Strawn isn't one of the Big 3.

J&B doesn't pay bar dues or ABA membership. Any other top firms with the same policy?

2:41, jealous much? I suppose that if you were working in Biglaw, you would turn down free money to prove what a self-starter you are? You are right that Biglaw associates are whiny, but in case you haven't noticed, ATL is not really about finding solutions to world poverty.

Morgan, Lewis has PPP of 1 million plus and doesn't even pay for bar expenses. It's up to incoming associates to pay the expense out of their bar stipend of 10K. And the firm won't let you start working until oct.

Seems that NYC firms pay bar fees (BarBri, PMBR, costs of sitting for the exam, etc) and give a salary advance. California firms do it a bit differently, giving you a bar stipend (like Morgan Lewis, Morrison & Foerster's was $10,000) from which you pay for your own Bar expenses.

As for bar dues, MoFo pays for your annual bar dues in your state of practice and possibly a second jurisdiction by petition. (I take this to mean that if you have status in another place where they do business, they will pretty much always pay.) Associates also get up to 2 section memberships, I think.

For awhile, Wilson Sonsini was the way to go for bar takers: They gave the $10,000 bar stipend (a la CA firms) AND paid for all of your bar expenses (the exam, BarBri, etc) on top (a la NY firms).

Wait, are you complaining about Morgan Lewis? $10K is more than enough to pay for all that stuff and then some.

5:13 - that's Heller Ehrman's approach, as well.

I'm pretty sure Gibson gives a bar loan, and deducts it out of the paycheck on a monthly basis. Pretty cheap for a major firm.

Weil pays for one bar association of the associate's choice - ABA, City, Gay, whichever.

"Lat, do a thread on dinner budgets and late night car service. I might be working late tonight."

Lat, I agree, that one seems conspicuosly absent from the BigLaw perk's threads.

Look, y'all, the silly law students are all confused about what this post is about. It is not about the bar exam, it is about your bar dues.

I'm a former Cleary associate. I was repeatedly told (including by the head of HR) that Cleary does not pay bar dues and that, as Lat indicates, this policy was a firm "tradition." While I generally liked the firm, I found this "tradition" insulting and petty. De facto, it means you're getting paid below market.

I do know, however, that some associates in smaller European offices were able to buck this rule and get their bar fees reimbursed. It's also possible that this policy has changed since I left, of course.

When I left Winston & Strawn a couple of years ago, it still was not paying attorney registration fees, let alone ABA dues. But the firm had to send all of the renewal forms in at once to make sure that the malpractice insurance and trust fund accounts and so on were reported correctly, so we had to write our checks to the firm. I don't know what it's doing now.

Why would anyone want to contribute to the commies at the ABA, whether it's your money or not?

Winston is the only firm I know of in DC that doesn't pay for most fees. They pay for admission to one bar, but make their associates pay for any other bar admission costs, and make their associates pay for all of their annual dues thereafter. I have also heard that they are very cheap on CLE issues. Makes them seem cheap and not in league with the big boys.