Anybody have thoughts on LeBoeuf, Lamb?

Cahill's vault ranking may be low because their practice areas are narrowly focused (they mostly do debt offerings and LBOs). Amongst corporate finance partners and investment bankers, Cahill is regarded as a top (or close to top) tier firm.

any thoughts on DLA Piper?

LeBoeuf Lamb pays good clerkship bonuses: 50K for one year, 70K for two years. Way to go LLGM!

Jenner is still below market on clerking bonuses. 35K besides a stipend. They should raise to 50K shortly I would presume in light of Kirkland and Sidley raising to 50.

Did Jenner used to be a more prestigious firm? If so, what's the story on their fall? Someone mentioned this to me, and I didn't believe her.

Cahill is a weird, secretive place. They're like the free masons of law firms.

Their offices are pretty ugly despite being so profitable.

Don't forget Floyd Abrams and Cahill's fantastic First Amendment practice.

Maybe Abrams can defend ATL pro bono if they get sued by NP.

Jenner is a top litigation firm and has been in the Supreme Court more times recently then any other I believe. Corp is growing rapidly too. I do not know why their prestige ranking isnt higher? They have been between 60-48 the last 7 or 8 years. Perhaps low PPO and the only top firm in Chicago that does not pay lock step after year 4?

Jenner is in the process of de-equitizing some partners. Not very prestigious, in the short term.

But if it helps their PPP, it could be good over the long term.

First

I summered at LLGM and very much enjoyed the experience. Their summer program is a good balance between firms where summers do nothing, and firms that work summers like first year associates. You'll get some real work, but you won't get crushed by it. The people I worked with generally seemed pretty happy and most seemed busy but not swamped. All told, it seemed like a very good place to work relative to other biglaw firms.

I've worked with DLA as opposing counsel in several commercial real estate deals (their chicago office and their dc office) and they are horrible. unorganzied, unresponsive, sloppy in their work, and generally not that smart. always shocks me that they have a good reputation

Jenner is a great place to work, supposedly have a "no screamer" policy for partners, from my experience that has been true. The firm is as close to a 1:1 partner/associate ratio as they come for a big firm, which means you actually have a shot at partner after 7 years. So while PPP may be lower than other firms, who really cares if you don't even have a shot at the pie at those other firms? Salary and Bonus is at or very close to other firms in the city.
And as far as prestige, well check out the DC and NY offices that are rapidly expanding, seems you need a top 5 school and clerkship to enter the door.

LLGM has snagged some huge partners in recent years (Ferrara, Setrakian, Salpeter, McMillan) and seems to be moving up in the world.

LLGM has snagged some huge partners in recent years (Ferrara, Setrakian, Salpeter, McMillan) and seems to be moving up in the world.

VAULT SAID FULBRIGHT WAS #50, WHY DID YOU LIST MCDERMOTT. THEY ARE NOT 50.

FULBRIGHT ROCKS!!!!

Labeouf is hard to spell, but I hear a chill firm. They have a cool summer program where you split your time b/w doc review and working at some public servicey-type place and still make summer salaries.

LLGM has snagged some huge partners in recent years (Ferrara, Setrakian, Salpeter, McMillan) and seems to be moving up in the world.

Jenner is a really strange, fratty place. Lots of moderately bright people who--after being dorks their whole lives--finally feel cool. makes for an odd atmosphere that i certainly do not want to live in.

LeBoeuf sounds like a bad '80s band.

4:37 - how is that different than any biglaw firm or basically any law student or lawyer in general?

4:11 I was hopeful that the rest of the Chicago firms would fall in behind Kirkland and Sidley in the clerkship bonus raise, but I think if Jenner, Mayer, and Winston haven't done it by now, it won't happen until next year. OCI is in full swing and until the firms feel an impact in the candidates they are losing or gaining, there won't be a change. Not sure what Jenner and Winston's excuse is, but Mayer may just be a matter of internal fighting preventing such a policy change from going through or maybe Mayer's new direction places less value on clerks.

BTW, 21 of the top 35 Vault firms, or 60%, now pay the 50K bonus (if you are counting Latham).

Is Cahill's ranking harmed by the fact that NYC is its only office?

On the other hand, Cravath and Wachtell are NY-only as well. . . .

Has anyone heard the LaBeef snagged some huge partners in recent years? Just kidding.

I think DLA Piper has a good litigation practice. I don't work there but I have seen a bit of their work as co-counsel firm on some cases.

Interesting to note is that, although Cahill's associate Vault ranking is 55, it's rank in the Vault partner survey is 22.

Their commercial litigation practice is well-regarded in New York, and Cahill is generally regarded as the one of the top (if not the top) media practices in the country.

Although the corporate practice may be narrowly focused, the firm is generally considered among the very best in the corporate areas on which they focus.

As for its reputation among associates:
Cahill long has been plagued with the reputation as a "cheap" firm. Until a few years ago, Cahill had a very "no frills" approach, and took somewhat long to come up to speed with its peer firms as far as benefits and associate perks were concerned. However, over the last couple years, the firm has done somewhat of an about-face. A new managing partner took over a couple years ago and the firm's approach has changed. The firm's bare-bones website was revamped and its notoriously ugly office was heavily renovated. Additionally, the firm has brought its benefits package up to the level of most other New York firms.

The firm's reputation also may suffer from New York being its only office. In the Am Law and other surveys, New York based firms with other offices have their New York attorney's hours-worked-per-lawyer averaged with the attorneys in the firm's other offices (which usually are lower than NY hours). This makes it look as if Cahill lawyers work longer hours, while in truth, they probably work the same amount of hours as lawyers in other big firm offices in New York. Longer hours can lead to lesser satisfaction ratings on surveys (NY lawyers generally express less satisfaction than lawyers in other cities in such surveys).

Thank you, 4:54 #2

First

I heard Jenner's DC office is super-prestigious and gets really incredible appellate and First Amendment work. Is that true?

Any thoughts on associate morale at DLA Piper? Are there many "screamer" partners?

I hear all the associate offices at LeBoeuf have terraces.

4:33 - I Agree - partly; I've been both co-counsel and opposing counsel with DLA on RE transactions. Some of their transactional real estate lawyers are terrible, while others are quite good (in DC especially). It's because the firm is not a 'firm,' but rather a confederation of franchises cobbled together by hasty mergers over the past few years. You never know what you're going to get one office to the next.

5:20 -No.

Any thoughts on Allen & Overy's London office or the London office of any other magic circle firm? As many hours as NYC? DC? ATL? More?

None of these guys are the real Loyola 2L!

It should be noted that Cahill does not have a theme song, although their softball team kicks ass.

5:20 - Yes you are correct.... 5:31 - You are wrong.

DLA has a good work environment. The atmosphere is friendly in most offices, and they were recently ranked at the top of the market for their associate bonus stracture. I also like how family-oriented the firm is.

The end-of-year bonuses are VERY high, and the work is interesting.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1138701911788

The hours in the London office of A&O depends a lot on which department you are in. All in all though, A&O associates usually work less hours than their counterparts at other Big Law firms thanks to our British influence. While we make the same and do work long hours, its better here than at a lot of other places.

The hours in the London office of A&O depends a lot on which department you are in. All in all though, A&O associates usually work less hours than their counterparts at other Big Law firms thanks to our British influence. While we make the same and do work long hours, its better here than at a lot of other places.

We need a thread talking about building books of business. I tried to get Lat to do one, but he hasn't yet. So I'm hi-jacking this thread.

Tell me about building a book of business. If you have your own clients, how did you get them? When did you start seeking out your own clients? How many hours a week do you spend wooing potential clients? What methods have been most fruitful for you in terms of snagging clients?

DLAyer - can you give a range for jr. associate bonuses? I've been looking for info on this and it has been difficult to find.

5:42, the associate bonuses MAY be high at DLA but I would never go there because the firm is super CHEAP when it comes to clerkship bonuses!

I read somewhere that they are paying a miserable sum of $10,000 for a district court clerkship. Who would go for that if the rest of the firms moved up to $50,000? If the firm doesn't respect valuable clerkship experience, I don't want to work there.

Thanks 5:47.

I would be looking at A&O's corporate/M&A practice group, which I imagine has the worst hours.

I agree w/ 4:54 (recently enhanced benefits, redecorating) except Cahill DOES have a puny DC office and a puny London office and increasingly there are opportunities to move to those offices.

Amazing intense experience here. But, yes, the corporate angle is specific, focusing on HY finance (nothing fluffy), representing the i-banks. The i-banks try to recruit away Cahill's great corporate associates to be i-bankers. Corporate works more hours than litigation.

Cahill's moving in the right direction and has increased formal training recently. Would like to see more mentoring and personal interaction (as opposed to just email traffic) with the partners.

5:48 - without being too specific, I can tell you that it's a lock-step that goes up to 50K if you reach (I believe) 2500 hours and starts at 20K if you reach 2000. This is what I heard. Also, there is an April/May NLJ article on this issue.

5:50 - you are right about the low clerkship bonus, but I think the firm is looking into that.

Thanks A&O Associate. I would be looking at their corporate practice groups, which I imagine have the worst hours. Do you generally like the people and the work at the firm?

I don't get the Cahill ranking, because it is one of the great firms. Moreover, most of the excuses I read here -- only has a NY office, very narrow practice areas -- also apply to Wachtel, which is ranked #1 in prestige.

I think Cahill is like "The Firm" - that movie with Tom Cruise. What the hell do they do that makes them so profitable?

When I think of WLRK, I think of "The Firm". When I think of Cahill, I think of "The Chamber".

When I think of Nixon Peabody, I think of "The Wedding Singer."

In case you missed it, Milbank is a dump.

DLA is wonderful. I have had an amazing experience here. Litigation is extremely busy, partners are great, training is superb, bonuses are excellent.

6:44 = DLA marketing department

6:48-agreed. No matter how much you like your firm, there is no way you would describe it as "wonderful." It is, after all, still WORK. Coffeehouses in Amsterdam are "wonderful," not law firms.

I love the firm, but I could barely fit my huge cock into the LeBoeuf Lamb when I got there. On a brighter note, the braised LeBoeuf Lamb shank is delicious!

It's hard to talk about Jenner or the firm's ranking as a unified firm -- the DC office is completely different from the other offices. My understanding is that the Chicago office is sort of a normal firm with a normal environment with attorneys recruited from a wide range of schools.

The DC office is the prestige headquarters. They have a very active Supreme Court and appellate practice. They have a First Amendment practice that is funded by a philanthropist and allows them to choose the cases they work on. They also have a Native American practice and a litigation group that does election work for the DNC. So, it's very unique as far as corporate law firms. It's also small, progressive, and a very intellectual environment. The lawyers are scary smart - many are former Supreme Court clerks, and they typically only recruit on campus at Stanford, Harvard and Yale.

I haven't worked at DLA for a while now, but I can tell you that their Chicago office was a pretty miserable place to be. Associates didn't get window offices until 3rd or 4th year; turn over was high; and while there were plenty of nice people there were certainly enough screamers to poison the well. Also, I saw a lot of good people get passed over for partner. I went to a firm where a work longer hours but haven't regretted the move for a minute. It was a happy day when I walked out of there. That said, if you want to go somewhere you can bank some cash and do no work, DLA may be the place for you. There were quite a few associates that didn't seem to do anything, but the firm didn't seem interested in firing anybody.

I read somewhere that they are paying a miserable sum of $10,000 for a district court clerkship. Who would go for that if the rest of the firms moved up to $50,000? If the firm doesn't respect valuable clerkship experience, I don't want to work there.

Reach between your legs and grab your testicles firmly... Clerking imparts no real experience... You are out of touch

DLA predecessor Piper Marbury laid off the entire Reston VA office in 2001

Jenner's performed a Mayer by dequitizing partners. Plus, there's a lot of dead weight around the Chicago office. it's a fine firm . . . but about rightly placed in its prestige score.

Has the loss of Roger Meltzer from Cahill to DLA affected their corporate practice at all?

The loss of Meltzer has not affected the firm at all. The corporate practice is as busy as ever and, with no disrespect to Roger, it is business as usual, nobody has skipped a beat.

i'm surprised jenner is so low. goes to show how specific offices can develop identies at odds with the firm as a whole i guess.

I'm at DLA in NY. Hard to speak specifically about other offices (though I do work with many people in other offices), but overall, I'd say the firm is doing well.

I've been pleased in NY. Litigation group is very strong and jr/midlevel associates get good work, including substantive brief writing and depositions. In addition to the big cases, the firm still works on some smaller cases for big clients -- think random little commercial matters for real estate or products clients -- which give juniors opportunities to get to court, take depositions, etc.

Finance and real estate groups have been busy; bankruptcy is always busy. General vibe within the firm, and best I can tell out in the marketplace too, is very optimistic about the firm's performance. (In NY especially, it seems).

Firm management in NY is surprisingly open, accessible, approachable. That level of transparency seems to be pretty unique among firms.

No screamers that I have encountered or heard about. For the most part, good people to work with. Conduct yourself maturely and work hard, and you're treated with respect. It's kind of an eclectic mix of people, but in a good way I think.

As someone else mentioned, bonus structure is good. In NY, you get market lockstep for hitting 2000, then you get more $$ if you bill 2300+, 2400+ etc. So if your hours are high, your bonus tops most NY firms. Bonuses in the rest of the offices are based on a matrix which generally has been well received by associates.

Negatives: big firm sometimes means red tape. Firm is huge, so hard to really know what's going on in other offices. Firm doesn't give billable credit for recruiting and business dev, which is annoying.

Some notes on other offices:
- Boston office has high quality people, many of whom were formerly with Hill & Barlow (a well regarded Boston firm that dissolved). Real estate group there is strong, and other groups are growing.
- Philly is a tight-nit office with some hardcore litigators. Seems like there's always someone on trial there.
- DC has had some recent defections in litigation; not sure what the problem is. Real estate and govt affairs groups are well regarded.
- San Diego and Palo Alto -- strong offices; significant IP work; some real trial lawyers there.
- Chicago -- haven't gotten much of a sense of what that office is like. I've worked with some smart people there though.

I recently summered at a DLA westcoast office. The litigation was very upfront with me regarding the reality of the firm, including the "uncertainty" of the firm culture due to the recent merger. There is a fear of the enormous red tape that comes with the large firm, but it doesn't seem to be any different from the large firm I worked at as a paralegal before I went to law school. The jr. and sr. associates were upfront and friendly, and there was no partner screamer stories that terrified me. There was one story of a screamer partner, when i talked to the associate, the associate told me that the yelling did happen, but the partner apologized to his face the next day.
They were upfront with me when I asked the questions regarding work as a junior associate: billable hours, doc review, they told me the bad parts about it. And I think thats important. Sure they were recruiting me, but they wanted to make sure that I fit in with what they want.

A&O generally has really interesting people to work with, both in NY and London (you can also request to go to Hong Kong). It's Biglaw, so you know you're going to work really hard, and get paid for it well - their clerkship bonus structure/benefits package tracks the top US firms - so the real consideration for me was who it was I was going to spend all this time with. Given the international nature of the firm, there are people from all over the world in all the offices, qualified in a bunch of different jurisdictions (my office in NY was next to a Brazilian on one side, and two Englishmen on the other, and a guy from Dubai two doors down - this was common). That sort of everyday international experience was what I was looking for. I've worked in both the NY and London offices, and I've been impressed by the caliber of the people and practice. Their derivatives practice, banking group, and ICM are top-notch, among a few others.

Btw, the new offices in London (completed last year) are ABSOLUTELY stunning. Two huge terraces, a rooftop garden restaurant, a bar in the building at discount prices, a beautiful new gym, doctors and dentists on site, anything you could ask for. Worth checking out online.

I heard that several DLA litigation partners made over $5 million last year...is that possible?

Here are my thoughts on Jenner (Chicago):

It's a pretty diverse place, both racially and also being that they recruit from a broad array of law schools. If you're in litigation, they don't really break the group down any further, so that can make the firm really big. I found litigation people to be, on the whole, rather standoffish. People were generally nice, but don't really make a huge effort to get to know you. There seems to be a wide gulf between partners and associates, with little interaction between them other than on work. There is a daily nightly buffet and a friday happy hour with free booze and appetizers, but aside from that, there's very little. Sodas and juice are regular price, there's only coffee made from cheap coffee makers, hardly any tea, and no water filters -- you must use the old and rusty water fountains. Much of this will probably change when they move into their new building.

People seemed pretty concerned when they were slow to raise salaries, but most people seem to have forgotten that. The firm seems relatively stable, although one wonders whether a firm with such a high emphasis on litigation can continue to make much money when litigation is so slow.

Let's face it, if you're considering firms this far down the list, prestige is obviously not a very important requirement to you. Once in a while there are exceptions (Cahill), but at this point, "prestige" is just an arbitrary criterion on which the firms have been ranked. There's not really a whole lot of actual prestige this far down the list.

A&O guy: Are there international opportunities at A&O for U.S. trained litigators?

Fulbright #1 (4:36 PM): That was last year.

MWE is now #50. Fulbright has fallen to #57. Sorry...

I summered at LLGM and really enjoyed myself. I was one of around 75 NYC summers; I don't know what the worldwide summer class was. There was quite a bit of work to go around in the beginning, but it tapered off towards the end. I never worked weekends and rarely had extremely late nights - although I heard a few other summers did. For the most part, you could get work from any practice area - even if you had to wait a few weeks to get it or occasionally received a menial assignment to placate you. There was a ton of externship and pro bono opportunities to be had as well. The firm is pushing pro bono big time and counts up to 200 pro bono hours toward yearly billable requirements.

A lot of summers got to travel-both domestically and abroad. Several also split between NYC and other LLGM offices. Rumblings of a Dubai office. Hong Kong just opened up. If you wanted to spend a few weeks at another office, all you had to do was ask. Summer events were pretty standard in comparison to other firms from what I hear: Lunches, Yankees, Broadway shows, Cooking Classes, Apollo Theatre and of course drinking. Very generous on the use of the firm's car service.

The corporate, litigation and insurance practice groups seemed to be very busy and from what I saw dominated the workload handed out to summers. It seemed as though energy work was more difficult to come by. I know some summers got to attend several real estate closings and had their hands in some large-scale commercial development assignments. Sports and Entertainment/IP division is exploding – Prince, Oprah and Mr. Neverland are clients. The DC office has been renovated and includes some kind of cathedral theatre now. LLGM is definitely pushing hard to continue moving up in the world.

Associates do get worked hard, but overall, they seem to be fairly upbeat and have positive attitudes. I found that most partners were unassuming, unpretentious and just likable in MOST cases. Full disclosure: I truly enjoyed the people at LLGM and accepted my offer to return next fall.

Probably because Cahill gives the impression that they're all douchebags. The interviewer I spoke seemed like he was just in the law for the money, had no interest in finance or m&a other than telling his friends about the deals he worked on and how much cash he brought home.

It was all very Boiler Room-ish.

DLA Piper has finished last and dead last in the last two Am Law mid-level Associate surveys for D.C. (among 60 firms). A number of Associates left the D.C. office in the last two years. Morale has been low.

That being said, Ann Ford, the Managing Partner of the D.C. office, has done a fantastic job. She is paying attention to Associate satisfaction issues, and there is less cynicism around here than there was in previous years.

8:36 -- yes. I saw the point chart when I worked there and there was at least one in that range, and few very close to it. A lot of business controlled by a small number of people.

Re Cahill / Roger Meltzer -- No impact on the firm's business or bottom line, but the associates miss Roger Meltzer and his magic touch during this year's recruiting. We hear he's doing some face time recruiting w/ DLA Piper now.

9:42 - DLA's recruiting department?

Jenner Chicago sucks!

US-trained litigators are based only in the NY office, but of course there are sizable, international-oriented, litigations that float around all the time (Parmalat, eg), and litigators are often in London (and other more exotic places) to consult on cases. The transactional side is much more portable of course, where you can actually be based abroad.

For international opportunities in litigation, i think you have to pursue the international arbitration angle. Seems like there's more there.

12:18 - Why is that, did you get turned down for a job there?

No, unfortunately, I got a job there.

I'm quite happy at DLA. Of course, I have been at only one other BigLaw firm, so I don't have much comparison. That being said, the money (salary and bonus--not clerkship bonus, which is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things unless you are looking to recruit some ivy league prick to make your website look good) is good, the work is interesting (not all doc review, etc.), the hours are very reasonable (2k gets no complaints) and everyone I have worked with has been very professional and collegial. No screamers at the DC office that I have seen, but does anyone with self-respect really have to worry about having their feelings hurt anyway? I can't see myself going anywhere else but DLA for the time being.

I spent my summer at LLGM in NYC and really enjoyed my time there. Generally speaking - from partners to support staff - everyone was very professional and personable. The recruiting department did a great job of making everyone feel welcome and well taken care of.

As far as the work was concerned, some of the assignments were quite challenging and demanding. I was surprised at how much responsibility, autonomy and discretion I was given at times. I did not spend 1 minute doing any doc review or 50 state surveys, but I must admit that I had only a few small litigation assignments.

All in all, I look forward to returning next year.

I summered at Jenner DC, and can recommend it for students looking for a nice alternative to many aspects of the big-firm model. It's a nice size of about 60 lawyers. The focus is almost entirely on litigation, which I appreciated. People are brilliant - almost to a scary point. The atmosphere feels mature and intellectual...there is zero frat boy culture and associates are older than at your average firm (most come in after 1-3 clerkships). People are progressive and public-interest minded. It's okay to openly criticize law firms - the partners actually seem to appreciate irreverent personalities, and you don't have to pretend to be a cheerleader for private practice. The work is interesting, because as someone mentioned above, they have a unique range of litigation practices and supreme court work. I loved my summer associate class because everyone was smart, mature, nice and generally impressive. With one exception, everyone was from Yale, Stanford or Harvard. The partners are genuinely nice human beings, I never heard anyone yell or treat anyone disrespectfully, and associates seem to respect each other.

On the down side - it's still a national law firm with high billable hours and people work hard, it can be a little disorganized and informal (which I was okay with, but it might bother others) because the partners are chill and prefer to practice law rather than manage with a heavy hand, the perks aren't as great as some other firms, and their other offices aren't as prestigious or similar culturally so it's not great for transferring if I were to move cities.

anyone familiar with partnership prospects at Cahill or LLGM?

10:26: Totally. I got a heavy aggro vibe when I interviewed with them a few years ago.

In response to Posted by: OSU2L | August 24, 2007 10:26 AM

That partner is an exception to the majority of partners and associates at Cahill. Most everyone is modest--you would never know you were looking at millionaires if you were to meet most of the partners. Very down to earth and very in touch with areas of life not concerned with money.

Cahill is ranked where it is because it will not change to comform with the machine-like, robotic practices that firms feel are neccessary to make money. It is remarkable that Cahill ranks in the top ten firms concerning profit for partner--yet there are no assigning partners, no defined practice groups and the ability to decide which projects and with whom you prefer to work with.

12:27 misses the mark -- by staying small, Cahill has managed to evade much of the bureaucracy that naturally creeps into larger institutions. The un-administered nature of the place is what makes it great.

12:27 misses the mark -- by staying small, Cahill has managed to evade much of the bureaucracy that naturally creeps into larger institutions. The un-administered nature of the place is what makes it great.

Re DLA - I was there for five years (through umpteen million mergers) - left last year for an inhouse position.

Not sure who thinks it is family friendly, unless your idea of "family" is to leave work at 8 pm, get grief from partners in multiple offices about daring to take time off and never see said family. And don't even think about reducing your hours and having any partnership potential.

But, all that said, most of the people there are genuinely nice (in 5+ years I can count the number of true assholes on one hand). It sounds like morale might be picking up and the firm did seem to be at least thinking about its problems when I left. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to someone who wanted BigLaw and wanted to practice in one of its core areas.

What is the story on DLA Atlanta?

"Jenner is a great place to work, supposedly have a "no screamer" policy for partners,"

as a former Jennerite all I can say is bwahahahahahaha to that!