Nationwide Pay Raise Watch: Arent Fox, Seyfarth Shaw, LeBoeuf Lamb
We have a few associate pay raise developments to report this morning. Some of these items were announced some time ago, but they haven't written about in these pages until now. Here they are:
1. Arent Fox: The firm now pays a starting salary of $160,000 in New York, D.C., and California, according to the firm website, which a tipster pointed out to us. (But that $20,000 clerkship bonus is pretty chintzy.)
2. Seyfarth Shaw: The firm, which dragged its feet on the last pay raise, has no current plans to raise again. From a Chicago associate:
"Our executive committee recently had a meeting and it was decided that salaries would not be raised to 160K for offices outside of New York. Chicago will continue to be behind market. I'm not so sure about the Boston, D.C. and L.A. offices, but if Chicago is not bumping, those offices are most likely staying behind as well. Maybe you should do one of those Baker & McKenzie and Greenberg Traurig bar charts on Monday morning for Seyfarth Chicago. As much as this firm is trying to be a major Chi-town player, it isn't paying like one. We are pretty bummed."
3. LeBoeuf Lamb: The firm has raised to the $160K scale in its Houston office. Memo after the jump.
LEBOEUF LAMB GREENE & MCRAE -- HOUSTON -- ASSOCIATE PAY RAISE MEMO
(43) Comments
Latham still hasn't raised to $50k for its clerkship bonuses? Cheap!
FIRST!
Now where the hell is williams and connolly?????????
Amen 10:40 (number 1). Latham is dragging its feet on this one, despite much lower ranked firms (and direct competitors like OMM) having raised weeks ago. Shows what they think about paying market rates. In other words, they don't mind paying below market. Incoming 2Ls, keep this in mind.
"Delighted" to recognize associate hard work? That probably should read "the partners are pissed off that they have to fork over more cash thanks to V&E's recklessness." On the flip side, they aren't doing the deferred compensation model...
Latham isn't just ignoring OMM. They're ignoring the fact that freaking PAUL HASTINGS raised to $50k. Way let PH eat your lunch, Latham.
755!
Yeah, LeBouef raised for real.
I'm still not eating my hat (in keeping with my earlier promise) over the Arent Fox raise until evidence is presented that they did not simply boost the first & second years and then compress the heck out of everyone else.
Look, I'm going to a NY firm that hasn't yet raised clerkship bonuses from 35 to 50k yet, so I appreciate all the pressure people seem to be putting on firms to raise. That said, the Latham comments seem kind of crazy, like, maybe they're all being written by the same disgruntled clerk?
Another thought on clerkship bonuses. GDC is going to have to raise to $50k, because one of their main competitors in DC, K&E, has raised to $50k. After GDC raises, L&W with be the lone holdout among LA's "big three." So maybe L&W will try to get ahead of things by raising before GDC?
Somebody needs to remind the folks at Seyfarth that a) they never were a major Chi-town player and that b) it was the associates from Baker & McKenzie that made that spreadsheet and that if the Seyfarth folks want to push for more money they should get off their bums and do it themselves.
Still no word from Sidley, Winston, Jenner, Mayer after Kirkland's clerkship raise to 50? I was thinking they would move quickly on that, any news out of Chicago?
10:52: yeah, the Latham troll is a little off his rocker. Because you know it's the end of the world when a clerk chooses a firm and their bonus is smaller than the bonuses some other clerks are getting, in an amount less than 10% of one's first year salary. Great way to make a decision about what firm to go to.
Clerkship bonuses are actually bad for clerks. If you really want to be happy, you should refuse your firm's offer to pay you the bonus.
LeBouef's raise is cool. Maybe they could be my lover.
LOL, 11:09
I guess ATL is all about people complaining and pushing for more money, but really Latham troll, do you realize that with taxes, you won't see most of that extra money anyway? You're getting more annoying than the Atlanta people and making me miss wgwag.
White Girls With Latham Trolls!
Ellen likes girls, and so do I.
LOLlercoasters! Seyfarth is a great place with great people; you'd have to at least pay me an extra $15k to leave... wait a sec....
Wow, Houston in 160! TX doesn't even have state income tax. NY needs to raise.
Sandman 11:09: hilarious.
And there can't be just one disgruntled Latham troll---that would be crazy and obsessive, and no one has that sort of time, I wouldn't think.
That said, the bitterness and desperation for 15k is actually getting a bit old. Latham knows what the market is paying, and will decide what to do in due time when (as a previous post in a prior topic said) the compensation committee meets. As 11:08 says, and I agree, 8k post-tax is no way to decide which firm to join---but I don't think anyone is saying that is what is governing their decision, per se. The discontent seems to be arising from comparisons to peers or prospective peers---who would think that law students would be competitive? Shocking.
That said, and a small additional point, denigrating your prospective firm on the worldwide web with sweeping, generally derisive comments may not be the wisest move, considering how your success depends to a good extent on the success of your prospective firm---including in continuing to recruit top notch associates from law schools.
DC Vault List of Shame (still at $145,000)
17. Williams & Connolly ($165k no bonus)
59. Alston & Bird
64. Holland & Knight
65. Greenberg Traurig
70. Hunton & Williams
71. Patton Boggs
74. Kirkpatrick Lockhart
75. Nixon Peabody
77. Bryan Cave
86. McGuire Woods
93. Kilpatrick Stockton
96. Venable
Shut the hell up about clerkship bonuses! It's salaries, stupid!
why is Williams & Connelly still on the list???? 165 salary is above market... (quit crying over 1st year bonus)
DC Vault List of Shame (still at $145,000)
59. Alston & Bird
64. Holland & Knight
65. Greenberg Traurig
70. Hunton & Williams
71. Patton Boggs
74. Kirkpatrick Lockhart
75. Nixon Peabody
77. Bryan Cave
86. McGuire Woods
93. Kilpatrick Stockton
96. Venable
agreed, 11:29. houston must be the best deal in the entire country (if one is willling to live there). my sister just bought a pretty nice 1br (big, close to work, swimming pool) condo for $80k there.
considering that the median cost for a STUDIO in nyc is about $450k (for all 5 boroughs; it's probably higher in Manhattan) i don't know why all the money-grubbing, whine about a one-time $30k difference in clerkship bonus, folks aren't flocking to TX.
11:32 - you got it exactly right. It isn't them money, but the message Latham is sending. Basically, they're saying they aren't willing to pay market rates, which is a bad sign not just for clerks, but for all assocaites. And I know I wouldn't want to go to a "cheap" firm.
12:01
Don't forget that Latham tried to pass off its bar stipend as part of the clerkship bonus, despite the fact that all incoming associates receive the bar stipend.
I think Latham should eliminate their clerkship bonus entirely as it seems clerks looking at Latham have way too much time on their hands.
11:46 -- I don't think anyone is crying over 1'st year stub bonuses. I think the point is that 2d years and above are well-below market once one considers the year-end bonus.
What firm is a better choice than Seyfarth for an aspiring L&E lawyer in Chicago?
Honestly...Seyfarth and Morgan Lewis are ways ranked #1/#2 in the COUNTRY for L&E work. If that is where your interests are there is no better place.
A Thought on Clerkship Bonus Raises...
There is little doubt that several firms that have yet to match the $50k mark will eventually do so (e.g., Latham, Quinn, GDC). But they are waiting to do so because it makes business sense. If they raise now, they would have to pay all the incoming clerks that amount. At this point, there is little pressure on them to meet the $50k amount because clerks who have committed to starting in the Fall are (apparently) unlikely to jump ship for a competitor this late in the game. For those few clerks who ARE willing to put the pressure on (i.e., by picking up the phone and asking Latham to meet OMM's mark), and for those few clerks who have yet to pick a firm, the market-laggers do need to match. However, they need not match publicly; indeed, it is best for them to match with a confidential offer so they don't need to pay clerks who are already committed the extra $15k.
The lessons: (1) the firms will match in late Fall; (2) they may have matched secretly already to certain candidates; and (3) until clerks who have committed put the pressure on, they won't budge.
LLGM raises in Houston but associates in Hartford still get the shaft. WTF?!?!?!?!
LLGM raised in Hartford a month ago
I thought Hartford was at 145, sorry, I guess I was wrong!
1:03 - It would sure bother me to go to a firm that's trying to save a few hundred K rather than keep up with KE. I would resent it every day I was there, especially when the next year's clerks get the bump. Isn't avoiding that tension worth the relatively minute amount of money saved? Your plan only breeds hostility for the sake of peanuts. Any firm that short-sighted needs new management and should be avoided.
Frankly, I think that KE caught a lot of firms off-guard. I would guess that the resopnse to their move is making its way through the channels at the other big Chi and LA players, and that there will be a move to 50K given to clerks starting this fall made really soon so as not to be hurt in OCI.
To put it in further perspective, CNNMoney's cost of living calculator says that you would have to make $370,462.36 in Manhattan to get the equivalent standard of living that comes with making $160,000 in Houston, TX.
Hunton's about to raise to 160k in DC. You heard it here first.
Richmond, unfortunately, will stay at 145, but hey, it's Richmond, and H&W is slowly trying to get away from Richmond being it's "mothership."
Ooops. I mean "its" mothership. Sheesh.
That is huge news on Hunton! Any idea when?
What about KL Gates? Associates paid for their merge across the pond with a cut in bonus so they can boost profits per partner. So any offer of bonus is management's carrot and stick. They want "Big Law" status, but are unwilling to be proactive with their associates. Wanna be top ten, then start acting like it! "We're looking at it" has been used in the past. With so many firms meeting market, many associates are now "looking at it".
11:01 am
The Chicago Seyfarth tipster said the firm was TRYING to be a main Chicago player, not that it was a major player. If you don't pay the dough, you ain't in the know...