first, first, first

Am I first?

New Jersey Office of the Attorney General to 59K!!!

Fourth fourth fourth: sucks to be fifth.

Compression aside, 140k in NJ is not a bad gig at all. Given that you're not taxed to the hilt like NYC and you're QoL is supposedly better, I think that 140 is a pretty good place to be in the Garden State.

Question: These pay raises are still off on the horizon, but at least they have been announced. Are the other NJ shops waiting to see if they can one-up each other, or do we think that firms like Riker and McCarter are still going to be sitting at 115k and 125k, respectively?

I'd think they'd lose some decent talent to Lowenstein, which is shelling out 140k, and Lerner David, the aforementioned IP shop, could possibly pull some talent from the Manhattan IP shops that aren't paying market (We're looking at you, Darby & Darby).

Yes we have bumped starting salary to 140K. However, you will have to live here- your bunk is down the hall to the right-showers to the left- breakfast is served at 5:30 a.m. sharp. Also, please do not make direct eye contact with Zulima Farber or we will have you arrested.

Lowenstein is a slave labor camp. If you go there expect to be leaving after midnight most nights and some nights even as late as 3:00 a.m. Not worth it. People are fleeing that place in droves- Don;t buy the QOL bullshit- its all a sham!

All NJ Firms listed on NALP:

Firm Name, 2007 compensation (billable hour requirement)

Boies Schiller 160k (?)
Latham & Watkins 160k (1900)
Greenberg Traurig 160k (1900)
Patton Boggs 150k (1900)
Morgan Lewis 145k (1975)
Dechert 145k (1950)
Drinker Biddle 145k (1850)
Kelley Drye 145k (2000)
Lerner David 140k (1800)
Ballard Spahr 130k (1950)
Lowensten Sandler 140k (no requirement)
McCarter & English 125k (1850)
Gibbons 125k (1980)
Pepper Hamilton 125k (1940)
Saul Ewing 125k (1900)
Sills Cummis 125k (?)
Kirkpatrick & Lockhart 122k (no requirement)
Day Pitney 120k (1900)
Proskauer Rose 120k (?)
Littler Mendelson 120k (no requirement)
Riker Danzig 115k (no requirement)
Edwards Angell 115k (1850)
Cole Schotz 110k (no requirement)
Pitney Hardin 110k (1900)
Porzio Bromberg 110k (1850)
Archer & Greiner 110k (no requirement)
Connell Foley 105k (no requirement, 1950 for bonus)
Fox Rothschild 105k (1850 (1900 for litigation))
Wolff & Samson 105k (?)
Wilentz Goldman 100k (1920)
Fisher & Phillips 100k (1850)
Greenbaum Rowe 97.5k (1850)
Budd Larner 95k (1900)
Norris McLaughlin 95k (1800)
Becker Meisel 80k (?)
Cohn Lifland 65k (no requirement) (a/k/a the Loyola2L special)

Zulima Farber, the posterchild for affirmative action, pretends to work at Lowenstein.

The last line of the article is priceless:

"Pepper Hamilton executive partner Robert Heideck says the firm decided to raise its pay because that's what other firms were doing."

5:08 and 5:25. Please, got any juicy details?

1st years to 140K at Lowenstein. 8th years at 152K and must be at their desk until 1:00 a.m. M-F. You can leave at 9:00 p.m. on weekends.

Nothing juicy really- just know that the place is brutal and people are fleeing like rats from a sinking ship.

What does the PPP look like at these places?

PPPPP - Follow the link:

http://www.law.com/jsp/nj/PubArticleNJ.jsp?id=1182157544476

"Pepper Hamilton executive partner Robert Heideck says the firm decided to raise its pay because that's what other firms were doing."

My Mom always told me not to worry about what others are doing but to only be concerned with myself. I am going to go home and kick her in the shins.

5:26, I like this one from Lerner David's manging partner: "It boggles my mind because, while there are very capable, bright young people coming out of law school, the reality is they don't have any particularly useful skills." Nice to have that comment out there, I'm sure the recruits will step right up to work there now.

I think New Jersey PPP tends to range from $300K to $800K.

5:31, PPP as of the last Top 20 rankings (based on NJ gross revenue)...

McCarter 525k
Lowenstein 781k
Gibbons 651k
Day Pitney 582k
Sills Cummis 540k
Riker 678k
McElroy 653k
Drinker Biddle 581k
Wilentz 342k
Fox Rothschild 518k
Cole Schotz 632k
Archer & Greiner 360k
Wolff & Samson 530k
Connell Foley 521k
Greenbaum Rowe 469k
Budd Larner 566k
Stark & Stark 503k
Reed Smith 853k
DeCotiis FitzPatrick 785k
Norris McLaughlin 365k

So, 5:08/5:29, do you think the move to 140 is an attempt to try and stop the bleeding?

So, 5:08/5:29, do you think the move to 140 is an attempt to try and stop the bleeding?

Maybe- a half assed attempt- they work associates like a Manhattan BigLaw firm so I don;t think 1450 cuts it particularly when you consider that Manhattan is only 15 miles away.

Great substantive posts (towards the end) - thanks. How are the NYC offices of these NJ firms. I understand compensation won't be at 160, or maybe even at 140, but is the tradeoff worth it? Hopefully you're not working biglaw hours but still making 6 figures???

Hey 5:08, related to 5:52's post, Lowenstein is trying to move into the NY market, correct? I understand they just opened a new office there. Any word on if that is substantive?

Troutman Sanders raised

I think Lowenstein, like all the others, has always maintained a "NY Office". However, those NY offices generally consist of little more than a few cubicles and a P.O. box. I don't think Skaden is worrying about Lowenstein's attempted entre into NY

At the end of the day, the main problem wih the Jersey firms (and the non-jersey firms that have braches here [i.e., Morgan, Dechert, etc]), is the mid-level comp. a 5th year in NYC makes about 80 grand more a year if you includedthe (non-discretionary) bounuses, that are routine in NYC.

What I've heard is that the Jersey offices of the non-Jersey firms (Dechert, Patton Boggs, MLB, Latham) are just much better places to work then the Jersey Firms (Lowenstein, Sills, McCarter) themselves.

Troutman Sanders did a $15K across-the-board raise for its Atlanta, DC, Virginia, and Raleigh offices. Effective January 1st.

What about Buchanan Ingersoll?

How about a post on salaries in Maryland.

If Riker Danzig is so flush with cash why is it so slow to raise salaries? Inquiring 2Ls want to know as interview season gets underway...

I've heard that Patton Boggs is a very good place to work, and to a lesser extent Kirkpatrick.... I have not heard the same about Riker or Lowenstein

I've heard that Patton Boggs is a very good place to work, and to a lesser extent Kirkpatrick.... I have not heard the same about Riker or Lowenstein

Can anyone share any info on what bonuses are like at these NJ shops?

First!!

I used to work at one of the top NJ firms and now work at a top NY firm. The myth that we in New York work harder that our NJ counterparts is just that, a myth. I worked 2100+ hours on the average there, I work 2100+ hours on the average here. The only differences are these:

1. Face time is higher in New York but in New Jersey you are expected in the office earlier.

2. Seamless web---NJ doesn't get it. You're lucky if the partner offers you a slice of his pizza and/or the nearest Taco Bell on Route 10 is open.

3. Bonuses in NJ are pathetic. They'll reward you with 20,000 for billing 2500 hours and expect you to suck them off for it.

4. Car service---NJ firms do not believe in it unless you're a partner.

5. Salary compression -- If they are starting first years at 140 at Lowenstein, you can be surer than shit that 3rd years, if they haven't split to NYC by then, are making like 160-170.

6. Lockstep -- Although they claim they have it in NJ, what they won't tell you is that for the associates they pluck out of NYC firms, their salary if quite often negotiated to much higher levels.

7. NY taxes. Very true, NJ taxes are appreciably less than NY State but the saavy NYC associates gin up a P.O. Box in Metuchen ato avoid the abhorrent NYC income taxes. When the wash is done, NYC associates make out way better than NJ counterparts. No contest.

8. Exit opps. In NJ, you're lucky to get an in house gig at PSE & G whereas in NYC, you'll get 10 job offers by year 6 if you have a pulse and are not socially retarded (even though most are).

Also, at least at Wilentz (I did not work there) last time they raised starting salaries, they only raised for years 1 and 2 so the first years were making more than 3rd years cause the compression was like 2 grand per year. Truly, these shops suck hard.

Red Bank to 118K woo hoo

Greenbaum Rowe Smith sucks. You do NOT want to work there.

Where do you want to work?

Just don't go to Riker Danzig in Morristown. Way below market pay, crappy to nill boni, and 2000+ hour requirement. A nearly defunct and useless NYC office. The "London Office" consists of four people, two of which are actually NJ based and only on the letterhead. Major negative growth (20 fewer attorneys than three years ago). Partners treat associates like crap yet make them pay for b'berrys. Go to McCarter or Lowenstein instead, if you must stay in NJ.

Day Pitney, the fuck you inthe ass firm.