First-O-Matic!

Clearly not everyone is a winner at WIL-SON SON-SI-NI!

When it comes to rejections

We lack in-te-gri-ty.

This wouldn't be that funny if not for the fact that Wilson Sonsini is based out of Silicon valley and considered #1 in BIGMICROCHIPLAW. One would presume that they should be able to use Outlook properly.

1:30-

That would violate the ATL anonymity policy.

What is the difference between an emailed rejection and a typed, mailed rejection, except that the 2nd requires more effort from the support staff, more costs, and more paper?

Emailed rejections are fine. Let's get with the times.

This goes for breaking up with people, too. An IM works these days where only a face-to-face would be deemed polite.

I was at the Columbia OCI and heard tell that several firms were switching to email notifications for callbacks and offers (in order to get them out as fast as possible) though I would imagine they'd follow up with a real letter. But rejections? Seems cold.

But I would love to see an email that said the firm would be confirming the rejection via post at the earliest possible date.

Yeah it's so consuming for support staff to mail merge and hit print.

1:33 - I agree, breaking up via text message also works these days

1:35,
You're forgetting (a) having the letters signed, (b) folding the letters, and (c) confirming that addresses on envelopes match envelopes on letters. Why do all this in this day and age? Does getting rejected on firm letterhead sting any less? It's stupid not to do email.

Paper-rejection firms think you are worth 41 cents more than second-class email-rejection firms. Never go with an email-rejection firm -- it shows financial instability.

At least they notify candidates. I interviewed on campus with a firm that simply never followed up. I sent an e-mail to the interviewer a couple weeks after I sent a thank you letter, no response. Never heard again.

Everyone's incompetent at IN-SERT LAW FIRM NAME HERE.

I liked paper rejections because I could keep them all in a file marked "Enemies List."

You people get rejections letters?!?!?! HAHAHAHAHA . . . .

When I was sending resumes to firms for a first-summer associateship, I received a formal rejection letter with the envelope properly addressed to me--but with someone else's rejection letter inside. I honestly don't remember the firm, but it was in DC (where I went to school and where I wanted to spend that first summer--yeech).

1:46-

This would never happen at Nixon Peabody because it's all about respect.

Yeah, but how many of the rejections were back-dated?

Email saves trees, and we all know law firms care about the enironment.

Nixon Peabody sends a singing telegram.

anyone who calls it a summer "associateship" is a d-bag

Everyone's a winner, but unfortunately we cannot extend d an offer for you to join our happenin -fam-i-ly!!

The people at Playboy Magazine agree:

You're one SOB 2L reject in the eyes of Wilson Son-si-ni!

Word is that Nixon Peabody is teaming up with R-Kelly for a series of Hip Hop Operas...and golden showers.

I got a rejection from Simpson Thacher when I was looking for a job during the last year of my clerkship. It was actually a letter rejecting me for their summer associate program and wishing me continued success in my legal studies.

If they had taken the time to read my resume they would have seen that I had a JD and that I was clerking for a federal judge.... But they couldn't be bothered with that.

At least they didn't cc all the other potential summer associates like those douchebags at Wilson Sonsini

an idiotic mistake. but some of you guys are way too sensitive with a sence of self-entitlement.

Columbia University actually sends rejection letters to undergraduates by email. They do at least follow up with a written rejection letter, but I would prefer to only be rejected once by any particular institution. So I'm not too fond of the rejection by email. I think I like the idea of other communication (e.g. callbacks) by email, though. I generally like hearing as soon as possible, and it is often easier to reach lawyers over email than phone anyway.

Anyone ever get a rejection letter via fed-ex overnight?

I got mine from Latham that way.

2:08,

It's "sense," not sence. Go self-entitle yourself on someone else's time and dime.

All other ATL posters will agree/
Your grammar ain't good enough for
Wilson Son-Si-Ni!

The disclosure of students' identities could also be a violation of their privacy rights, especially in a state with strong consumer-protection laws---like California, where Wilson Sonsini is based.

In law school, a friend of mine got back a rejection letter to which the secretary had inadvertantly attached my friend's resume, along with the hiring partner's comments. Those comments consisted of the word "NO" scrawled across the page.

The disclosure of students' identities could also be a violation of their privacy rights, especially in a state with strong consumer-protection laws---like California, where Wilson Sonsini is based.

This is complete douchebaggery. It's not the emailing, it's the cc'ing. I wonder if it's actionable: public disclosure of private facts.

Wilson Sonsoni should adopt the who->'s "Substitute" as their theme song:

I look pretty young but I'm just back-dated, yeah!

1:33 - While I agree that paper rejections are not crucial (though they are classier), if you're going to go the e-mail route at least have the courtesy to PERSONALLY ADDRESS the rejection e-mails (i.e. "Dear Mr. Loser") and have the name of an actual attorney at the closing (i.e. "Best of luck getting a callback at a less selective firm, Joe Schmoe, Hiring Partner")

When I did OCI, I got notified of callbacks via telephone within 1-3 days. Career services told us to make sure our answeting machine/vm recordings sounded professional.

Not hearing via phone usually meant rejection letter coming via snail mail within 7 days.

We thought misery loves company.

2:12 don't be such a dorky douchebag. first with the spelling hall monitor behavior then with the gay song lyrics.

I think the worst practice is to extend callback offers during interviews. Once someone has received a callback offer, everyone else knows it. It really sucks to sit in an interview for 20 minutes, and then be shown out without a callback offer knowing that means a rejection. At least wait until after finishing your interviews for the day before making offers.

You can make a valuable argument for the waste in paper and money to mail paper rejections. I grant WSGR that.

But the rejections should be personalized -- individual email to each rejected candidate, addressing them by name, from an attorney. Just like it would be in a letter, but do it in an email. Heck, you could even do it by PDF. Mass rejection just reflects poorly on the firm.

Common sense. Sad that I have to advise a large firm on how to do things properly.

Lat:

The comment by 1:53 needs to be highlighted in the story. Classic.

Nixon Peabody sends a singing telegram.

Posted by: You're not a winner, but here's a dancing letter | August 24, 2007 01:53 PM

The Attilla-the-Hun Contest!!!
Harvard Law grads of a certain age may remember this annual event held in the law school dorms each spring. People would bring their most outrageous and egregious rejection letters to one of the lounges, where they were plastered all over the walls. Then at the end of the hiring season there was a big party, with prizes awarded for the most offensive rejection letters. Prized examples were detailed, chatty rejection letters sent out to students who had not even been interviewed, or rejection letters sent to the wrong person as per an anecdote mentioned above. Some were just poorly phrased or outright nasty.

This was back in the mid-1970s. Has the tradition been carried on?

This is not that uncommon for first round selection, but after an interview a “real” letter is expected.

This happened in undergrad with pre-selection for first round interviews at a certain consulting firm. They sent a first email to everyone (~300 students) telling us they got our resumes, then a second to ~280 of us encouraging us to bid for an interview. (1/2 of interview spots were pre-selected and 1/2 where from a bid process.) Well, after 3 min on excel and 5 min on the school intranet you could tell that everyone they pre-selected came from the same 4-5 student groups and 2-3 majors. To my knowledge this firm never knew what they had done.

Recruiting is different in consulting because the sophisticated firms realize that recruiting is an extension of future business development. I have not seen this approach in law

I was an LLM and I got more than 80 rejection letters. I formed with them a ring and I burned them, creating a huge ring of fire... and it burns burns burns... the ring of fire... the ring of fire

PS: I still got a job, beyotches!!!!!

Aw, 2:11, that's harsh!

Some firms would justify email rejections as "green."

2:22 - why would any adult, especially one that presumbably has an advanced degree, criticize something by calling it "gay"? I think you lose the right to call anyone else a douchbag.

In the 80s, I had a friend who got rejection letters from each of the (then) Big 8 accounting firms. He pinned them on his wall. Nice letterheads. In the 90s, I got a rejection letter, tore it up into little bits, set the pile on fire, put it out by urinating on it, ground the results into a paste, and smeared it warpaint-like on my visage. Overreaction?

In the 80s, I had a friend who got rejection letters from each of the (then) Big 8 accounting firms. He pinned them on his wall. Nice letterheads. In the 90s, I got a rejection letter, tore it up into little bits, set the pile on fire, put it out by urinating on it, ground the results into a paste, and smeared it warpaint-like on my visage. Overreaction?

I wallpapered my kitchen with rejection letters and called it the "wall o' failure"

still got a biglaw job though

I'm still waiting to hear from Jenner Chicago whether I'll be receiving a callback as part of OCI 2004.

Doosh-baiig-zuh.

(Has anyone else noticed that douchebag can be used in virtually every thread. Awesome!)

2:28: I was at Harvard in the late '90s. We didn't do that on my floor in Ames, but we certainly talked about things.

My personal favorite when I was a student was a firm that never contacted me after my callback -- never even sent the rejection letter.

1:33 & 1:39:

I find that post-its come in handy around break-up time.

I went through OCI twice, and got multiple offers from V20 or better firms both years. I also interviewed with Boies Schiller both years, and never received any communication from them (rejection letter, presumably) at all. I think they were the only firm in either year that did that.

In 1998 (Boalt), S&C sent out its rejections from OCI via Fedex... The partner interviewing on campus must have transmitted the rejection list back home within minutes of finishing his interview schedule, because time difference be damned, his assistant had each of those rejection letters on its way that very day from NY, and so all the rejects got their letter the *very next day*

When it absolutely, positively, has to be there overnight...

boy, a public rejection letter, that's as humiliating as coming home to find your husband dead from jack-off asphyxiation.

Why do some firms simoply never respond? oversight? lack of courtesy?

Oversight, probably. Big firms interview over 80 people/day during interview season...

In OCI last year I got a rejection letter from a firm describing how interesting it was to talk about [insert job description] and [insert college], but that they were unable to extend me a call back offer. The weird part was that I never went to that interview--I cancelled it a week before. The same thing happened to a friend that cancelled his interview.

I had a callback interview once where the firm's hiring partner stood me up for a dinner the evening before the interview. No phone call, message at the front desk, etc. She just didn't show up and eventually I went back to my hotel room and ordered room service. She called to apologize the next morning and I went to the interview and thought it went well.

A couple of weeks after the interview when I had not heard anything from the firm and was trying to figure out all of my options, I called to follow-up and the same hiring partner got on the phone and said, oh, we decided not to give you an offer but haven't sent out the letters yet. A few days later I received a letter dated well before the date that I had called, leaving me with the impression that the firm had prepared the letters and then not sent them out for over a week. At any rate, it all worked out for the best, because I don't like to work with disorganized people. If a law student feels put out about receiving a rejection email (the cc list blunder is another story), that person probably wouldn't enjoy working at that firm (or any firm for that matter).

Wilson Sonsini is good at public humiliation. It's as core to their culture as being a chronic liar.

To take the most notorius (but certainly not only) example, Wilson Sonsni publicly stated that a bunch of economically-driven associate lay-offs were performance based. Other Valley firms also did economic lay-offs, but these firms were honest about them; Wilson Sonsini lied.

To compare and contrast -- when Cooley did lay-offs, they publicly said the lay-offs were economically driven and that the affected associates were all outstanding attorneys. Cooley also went way out of their way to help the affected associates get new jobs. When Wilson Sonsini did lay-offs, they said the lay-offs were performance-based (they weren't) and then did nothing to help the affected associates get new jobs.

Wow, I bet Wilson Sonsini wishes it could get in the "time machine" and take this one back.

In law school, I once got 3 rejections from some small firm: 2 in my law school mailbox and one at home.

I have a name that is much more commonly a girl's name, but is sometimes a guy's name. I still got a few rejection letters to MR. _____. Which is funny, because [school] Law Women was an activity on my resume.

I had many firms never follow up after on grounds interviews, and a handful after callbacks. For all I know, I could be getting an offer anytime... six years later. Some of these recruiting departments are completely disorganized.

Ah, '02-'04 - the years where everyone got a forest's worth of rejection letters.

2:50, I've got you beat, I'm still waiting for a call back from Cooper & Dunham, (a little sh*t firm in NYC) from OCI 2003! I've since moved on to BigLaw.

Just got a rejection letter from Quinn Emanuel telling me that they really enjoyed meeting me and that they really appreciated that I took the time to talk to them but they couldn't offer me a callback

I never interviewed with/bid on them...kind of creepy that they know where I live though...

I received a rejection letter when I was in law school that was addressed to someone with my last name and a first name of "Dave." (My name is not Dave.) I actually called the firm-- don't remember which one-- just to make sure the letter was actually intended for me. It was. That was awkward.

I once received a rejection letter 10 days after I had called + emailed to withdraw myself from consideration. The letter was dated several days after I had called AND emailed. Nice. I informed the hiring partner at the firm of this misstep, and he personally called to apologize. I appreciated it, because it taught me that there are oversights in this business, lawyers do often care, and the staff members are frequently ignorant fools.

7:57 -- I'm kind of surprised that the hiring partner called to apologize. I personally don't think that I would have called the hiring partner to inform him of the error, since it seems like arguing over who dumped who first.

During 2L OCI, I interviewed with a firm in Grand Rapids (MI). Don't ask why (I had a reason--long story).

In "researching" the firm before the interview, I checked out their website. About 90% of their recruiting page was devoted to the benefits of working in Grand Rapids (much lower billable requirements, close to cool things x, y, and z, cheap real estate, etc). It was very clear that they assumed (rightly) that very few people would think of Grand Rapids as a good place to practice law, so they tried very hard to sell themselves and their market.

I get to the interview, and the first question I get is: "*Why* do you want to work in Grand Rapids?" The emphasis on the "why" was such that it was clear they could not fathom why someone who wasn't from Grand Rapids would want to work in Grand Rapids. So I give them some BS answer. They ask the same question a different way, and then another way, etc, etc. We talk about Grand Rapids for about 2 minutes. Then they ask, "Have you ever been to Grand Rapids?" I knew I was screwed. I admited that I hadn't, but I had been to x, y, and z (all in the general area).

That was it. They asked me some stupid questions for about another 30 seconds, and then they both stood up and thanked me for my time. Interview over. It was about 3 minutes into a 20 minute interview.

I never got a rejection letter from them, and I don't think it was an oversight. Which was certainly for the best for both me and the firm, as my reason for interviewing there disappeared not long after that and I would not have been happy.

The DC outpost of a V50 firm entirely forgot they interviewed me. The firm didn't do OCI at my school, so I submitted a resume/cover letter independently in the summer before my 2L year. Shortly thereafter, I received a letter informing me that they had received my letter, and would contact me if they would like to schedule an interview.

Before I had finished my summer internship, one of their hiring committee members called and did a screening interview over the phone. I eventually received a callback. That round of interviews was mediocre at best - I definitely wasn't at the top of my game.

I didn't hear from the firm for a couple weeks. I didn't make much of it, nor did I follow up, because, in the interim, I had decided I didn't want to be in DC.

About 6 weeks later, I got a letter from the firm. I assumed they finally got around to rejecting me. Nope. It was precisely the same letter they sent me initially, i.e., that they had my resume, were reviewing it, and would be in touch if they wanted to set up an interview. I got a good laugh out of it. (They eventually did send a formal rejection letter somewhere down the line, the form of which didn't make clear whether they actually recalled interviewing me.....)

my law school set up an OCI with an out of town firm, which just happened to be in the city where I grew up. I signed up thinking it would be cool to work in my hometown.

I showed up to the OCI - after getting a speeding ticket on my way there - only to be told by the attorneys at the interview that the firm was not in fact hiring AT ALL, that year or next, and that they agreed to do the interviews only to "humor" my law school's administration because they kept getting bugged to do OCI.

er... yeah.

01:52 PM:

Nicely done. Very well played.

I interviewed with WSGR back in the day when I was doing OCI. They even flew me to Palo Alto for a callback (which I completely bombed). I did get a written rejection from them.

Plenty of other firms didn't even bother to send a rejection of any sort. *cough* friedfrank *cough*

Makes me feel a lot better about not having written a single thank-you note during OCI way back when. I got treated the way many of the posters got treated and decided to screw being gracious for getting treated like a cog.

I did an OCI interview with LeBoeuf a year ago and was told at the interview that I got a callback. Much to my surprise, a few days later, before anything else happened, I got a rejection letter like I would have gotten after an unsuccessful callback. I thought it was weird but LeBoeuf was not among my top choices at that point so I paid it no mind. A few days later I got a voicemail from the LeBoeuf recruiting department saying someone had messed up and sent rejection letters instead of callback letters to a whole bunch of people. Gotta think what kind of brain-killing work these people do to make such obvious mistakes.

I interviewed through OCI at WSGR years ago, against the advice of friends who said they had a rep for shoddy work. My callback interview was on a Friday afternoon at the end of the recruiting season, and more than one of my interviewers actually flaked. Just as amazingly, no one in HR was keeping track, so I ended up interviewing both with fewer people, and with different people, than scheduled, and having two of my interviews cut off after 15 minutes or so. It was the least professional interview experience I'd ever had, and I had the distinct impression that they'd already gotten too many acceptances but didn't want to cancel interviews so were just going through the motions and wasting my time. After that, this story is unsurprising to say the least...

4:32- I had something similar happen, although slightly more egregious. One of my screening interviewers from Alston & Bird had his wedding at the same hotel where I was about to get married a few weeks after OCI. He decided to soften my rejection letter by handwriting "congratulations on your wedding" or something along those lines at the bottom. Of course, the letter still started out "dear Ms. ___..." (I'm a guy).

Rejection letters from firms I never interviewed with or sent resumes to were always nice as well.

I summered at a firm that never sent me any follow up. Of course they also forgot to tell me that they'd moved offices and that I was invited to join them on the summer associate outing (got an email after the fact). Luckily I'd split, so it was an easy decision.

I also enjoyed the lateral callback interview after a holiday weekend where none of the partners I was scheduled to meet with showed up for work or were available at the scheduled time. I met with two junior litigation associates who didn't know what a motion in limine was an a senior associate who told me that she once was chastised at a firm happy hour for opening a second bag of chips before the first one was finished.

Hey, it could be worse -- they could have done a rejection in the form of a Friendster testimonial!

transcript of an actual call i had to make during law school:

"Hi, Boies Schiller recruiting? Hi, this is Anon returning your call. Why yes, I was glad to get your message offering me a callback interview, but I am also just a bit confused b/c I received a rejection letter from you yesterday. "

On the subject of the wrong rejection letter in the envelope...I got a rejection letter (envelope had my name, letter had someone else's name) and it stressed over and over that the "embarassing occurrence during the interview in no way resulted in the rejection" and that it was merely a matter of work-availability or something. I always wondered what "embarrassing occurrence" occurred....

Hey, I don't know if this tops it all off, but..

Some firm in NY I've never heard of/never interviewed with KEEPS sending me letters "congratulating" not me, but random OTHER people hired by the firm.

The letters are addressed in my name, but the names of the people hired are clearly not. Repeat: I never OCI'd/applied to this firm, nor ever heard of it.

I wonder if this firm is trying to just rub in their hirings to people who didn't interview with it. Jerks.

I like the paper rejection letters. My wife is making me a papier mache garbage can out of them.

Maybe WSGR can use the same excuse when it comes to its legal advice regarding the backdating of stock options; "an honest mistake."

I like the paper rejection letters. My wife is making me a papier mache garbage can out of them.

Maybe WSGR can use the same excuse when it comes to its legal advice regarding the backdating of stock options; "an honest mistake."

I like the paper rejection letters. My wife is making me a papier mache garbage can out of them.

I interviewed with a V10 NY firm at a job fair in NY. I didn't get pass the screening interview and they sent me a rejection letter. I then interviewed with the same firm at school through OCI. They gave me a call back and eventually an offer. So I have two letters; one saying I could not join their summer class, one saying I could. To make things even more interesting, they then had the associate who had originally rejected me call me and try to convince me to come to their firm. She said, "I'm sorry things didn't work out originally, but I'm glad to see they worked out in the end." Yeah....right.

I recently lateralled to a firm and am working directly for a partner who doesn't remember rejecting me a couple years ago for a summer associate gig. It's a bit awkward.

I made the mistake of sending two resumes to the same "Biglaw" firm while in law school a few years back. Shortly thereafter, I received two different responses: one rejection and one invitation to interview. I went on the interview and was subsequently hired. I'm still there, still getting paid...hey--where's my red stapler?

I was lucky enough to get rejected twice by WSGR. By the same form email. Three weeks apart.

I once got an OCI rejection in the form of musicgram...

I actually did get a few email callbacks. No email rejections though.