Fall Recruiting Open Thread: Vault 50 UK Law Firms
Lately we've been talking to a lot of 2Ls about the law firm recruiting process. From these conversations, we've learned that (1) a fair number are interested in working abroad, especially in the fabulous (and fabulously expensive) city of London, and (2) many law students treat the Vault law firm rankings as the Gospel.
In light of these two facts, we expect that many of you will be interested to learn that Vault just released its second annual Top 50 UK Law Firms Rankings. You can check them out here (main page) and here (prestige rankings).
Not surprisingly, the so-called "Magic Circle" firms still hold the top five spots on the list. But they have played musical chairs amongst themselves.
Please treat this post as the open thread for U.K. law firms. If you'd like to discuss what it's like to work for one of these shops, this is the place to do it!
The Vault 50 Top UK Law Firms [Vault]
(50) Comments
FIRST!!!
YEAH!!!
One problem with the UK firms is that they claim to be US style in recruiting but are still London-centric so can be slow as mollases in matching salaries, bonuses etc. and the London pressure can cause them to gut certain benefits that would be available at "peer" US firms (especially for ex-pats).
So is it better then to just work for a U.S.-based firm's London office? They seem to pay VERY well (when you include that COLA).
Anyone know about what it is like to work in London with a US law degree? Are you excluded from certain projects? Do most Americans with US degrees work mostly on international corporate transactions?
Benefits notwithstanding, total comp for US junior associates in London is hugely above New York across the board - even after taking into account the much-higher COL, you can pay your rent out of the COLA every firm pays, and still have your entire New York-level salary to live on and pay off your loans from.
Oh, and one additional benefit: lower effective taxes (at least compared to New York).
Of course, you do have to be okay with living in London and never being able to speak to your friends except on weekends, using every vacation day you have to see family in the US, etc. As great as it can be, it works best if you have very few ties you're leaving behind.
How does one (specifically, a federal clerk) go about applying for a position in the UK? Is it best to apply to the US-based office expressing an interest in the UK office?
Who cares? The British empire is dead.
Is it true that some of these firms have pubs in their offices?
Anyone have any idea about American firms with Parisian offices? Paris is a much more fabulous city than London and would be a much better place to live.
Any info on Freshfields? Both London and NY offices?
12:15 - you couldn't be a bigger idiot (but based on your extremely erudite comment, I bet you could). The litiguous nature of the US legal system coupled with the burdens of Sarbanes-Oxley is going to shift the global head of capital markets back to London within 10 years. If you're not with a firm with a strong London presence then the caliber of work will drop precipitously in the coming years.
Well I am a French young lawyer and I want to work in NYC... I've already been there for 2 months in a firm... any opportunities? I would be very happy for any kind of help!
@12:19PM: I leave in Paris... I really can help you (I am also a law teacher in the Paris law school)...
Do they know about law school tiers out there? Do they know the difference between Loyola and say UCLA?
Is it possible for a U.S. litigator to make the move to London? What kind of licensing hoops do you have to jump through? Do you need a British LL.M. (or equivalent)?
If you're a US lawyer, it's better to be at the London office of a US firm than a UK firm, generally speaking. You're on the inside looking out rather than the outside looking in.
Your practice will depend on the firm, but US lawyers in London mostly do capital markets and M&A.
And if you can manage to get a job in Paris at a US firm, go for it, but you'd be going in the opposite direction to the hordes of French bankers and lawyers who have come to London to work in the past few years.
The Pound is at 2.02 USD. Jeeeeeez. London firms to $380K!
The magic circle is actually great at matching salaries and bonuses.
However, other changes US departments want to make may have to go through many levels of English bureaucracy that seems purposefully designed to slow things down. Think Terry Gilliam's Brazil...
The magic circle is also well informed about US style recruiting and the value of a law school name although they tend to look beyond grades and like candidates who "fit" However, law school students should note that work wise they are the "Cravaths" etc of the UK and though you'll get amazing deals you'll be asked to work the hours to match.
One more note: the cost of living adjustment ("COLA") varies drastically at different firms in london and the differences are NOT well known in the market so do your research because the range in packages is great ($35,000 extra per year to $100,000 extra per year), can be complicated (i.e. include free housing or preferential exchange rates on base salary), and may end after a certain number of years in London leaving you unprotected against the falling value of the dollar.
what are the partnership prospects for US trained attorneys, over seas, but also in the US offices, but mainly over seas in the magical circle firms?
In London you'll also have to contend with terrorists trying to FUCKING KILL YOU..
um...terrorists trying to kill you? as apposed to NYC?
Any work for U.S. trained litigators in the U.K.?
The problem with UK firms is that they are amazingly centralized. Even if you are the managing partner of a profitable "foreign" office, you will always have the impression that everything happens in London. So if you want to work for a UK firm, you have to be in London.
um...terrorists trying to kill you? as apposed to NYC?
U.S. has better security. The Brits kill the wrong people.
US trained litigators, from what I've seen, have to requalify or become transactional lawyers. Some English firms with NY offices will send you over on secondment to the London litigation department for a few months but it is not that common
US trained litigators, from what I've seen, have to requalify or become transactional lawyers. Some English firms with NY offices will send you over on secondment to the London litigation department for a few months but it is not that common
Maybe this would work better as a seperate thread, but can anyone shed light on the expat packages/"COLAs" offered by specific firms (US and UK) in London?
I have flyback interviews at Cravath, Skadden and Allen & Overy a few weeks from now. I am looking to lateral from a BigLaw NYC law firm. Can anyone speak to these three firms' London offices? Salary? Culture? Etc.?
What is the application/interview process like for a law student applying for UK based firms and UK offices of US firms?
12.51pm
To qualify to practice in the UK (I assume you mean in London) you will need to take the Qualified Lawyers Transfer Test (assuming you are qualified in a US jurisdiction). see this link for the Law society of England and Wales (the equivalent to the NYSBA)
http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/becomingasolicitor/outsideengandwales.law
the QLTT is nothing like the NY bar and relatively easy - depending on what country you are from you take a certain number of tests - but as long as you are from a common law country it is a pretty simple process
3:00, both Cravath and Skadden's London shops are desperate for people and will work you to death. You'd work hard at A&O, too, but it wouldn't be quite as bad. That said, COLA is a lot better at Cravath or Skadden than A&O (and A&O's COLA, if I recall correctly, goes away after 3 years).
There are some US firms that have very small US litigation practices in London, but it is rare for them to hire laterally. Usually they bring people over from New York.
The QLTT is incredibly easy (open book!) but ends up costing well over £1000 to take the three required tests, if you buy the prep books.
I think you are mistaken, Skadden has a very low COLA, compared to most other US or UK firms that recruit US lawyers for London.
Skadden pays $57,000 COLA on top of regular NY salary
Other firms like Clifford Chance, Simpson Thatcher, Cravath, & Sullivan Cromwell pay about $100,000 COLA on top of the regular NY salary.
London to £100 + wigs!
If it wasn't for us they would be the smallest province in the Russian Empire!
They would all be speaking German!
so Richards Butler was ranked in 2007, merges with Reed Smith and the bigger and presumably better combined office is not ranked in 2008? how is that possible?
I've heard Freshfields/A&O/Linklaters' colas are less than skadden's - closer to $35k. Can anyone confirm?
I remember hearing Linklaters London COLA is $30K + favorable conversion rate. Providing favorable exchange rates ends up amounting to 10s of 1,000s of dollars in extra compensation and protects you from the dollar continuing to fall. These types of COLAS often end up being more lucrative than higher $$ amounts ... and will continue as the dollar drops more and more. I wouldn't overlook how well such packages can work out for you
another important thing to consider is that you cannot enter into a 401(k) if you start your career in London ... terrible but true
None of the UK firms pay more than £35k COLA (and believe me, your English lawyer counterparts will resent the hell out of every extra pound you get). If Skadden pays only $57k, the magic circle beats them, but 4:59 is right in that most top US firms pay close to $100k.
However, if you're looking at US firms, pay close attention to how your base compensation is paid. Some firms have a £ rate that they pay to both UK and US lawyers or a subsidized exchange rate (i.e. £1=$1.8), which is invariably better than the firms that simply pay you at the standard NY$ rate.
And for the love of God, if you want to come over here, shut up about the war, whether it is WWII or Iraq. People here don't want to hear it.
Interesting, but I know Clifford Chance's COLA is £55k ($110K)
Yes, Skadden is definitly just $57k - paid in $$
Does anyone have any insight on the advantages/disadvantages of working for a UK firm in the US? Many thanks!
To 8.41, you may not get a 401k but you will get a UK pension. There are pluses and minuses but the UK schemes can be a lot more generous than a typical biglaw 401k. For starters, UK firms usually give matching contributions.
US associates at Linklaters can participate in the NY 401k (NB: the firm doesn't match)
I have been told that US associates can only participate in 401(k) if they first enrolled in it while working in the US ... not if they begin their career with the firm in the UK. I also haven't heard of any US associates in London being offered participation in any UK pension scheme.
So 8.41 is probably right for people looking to start with a firm in London.
To 5.14 -- Can you shed some more light on the UK pension scheme opportunities for US lawyers/citizens. Wouldn't the US govt tax this money (even if UK didn't under scheme)?
Also - have any firms started making the new Roth 401(k) option available, that seems like something that would be great for young lawyers!
What is the work life like for cap markets in London-Simpson? I hear that the work environment in London is much worse than NYC...at least in respect of the number of hours. Is this true?
The benefit of Skadden is that the London office is totally in charge of their own hiring and partners get promoted from w/in the Europe group, so--unlike at many other American firms in the UK, not the UK ones obviously--if you actually want the partnership track in London, you're by far best off there.
In terms of workload, Simpson and Cravath are the worst - very understaffed. Skadden is nowhere near as bad (nor as bad as in NY). The UK firms tend to be the best though.
Could someone please clarify whether the magic circle firms discussed above (except Clifford Chance, I know theirs is £55k) are providing a COLA of 30,000 $ or £ ?
Also - what are the rates these firms use for their "currency protection" packages?
Any insight would be GREAT.
Also - why is Skadden's London COLA so low??
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