They stepped behind every other firm paying 160. Blank Rome: #1 in the 2nd tier!

I wonder what this will do to starting salaries at Dechert and Morgan Lewis in Philly, as they both see themselves as above the rest of the pack in Philly.

Lat,

We at Bingham just heard that the billable hours requirement (what we need to bill in order to be considered for a bonus) in all offices will be increased from 2000 to 2100 in 2008. Can you start a threat on similar trends or, if it's not a trend or anticipated trend, just rail Bingham for being the only one doing it?

So much for being a lifestyle firm.

11:16 raises a good point regarding the meaning of "billable hours requirement". For some firms, this is the requirement to make the base salary, and people below are docked. For other firms, the "requirement" does not impact base but is really the hurdle to qualify for a bonus.

Lat, maybe a thread to flush out how different firms handle this issue.

Who the hell told you Bingham ever was a lifestyle firm? And why in the hell did you believe them -- are you intellectually disabled?

11:24 - I second. Also what NY biglaw firms have any type of requirement at all.. whether for bonus or salary

To un-threadjack... will 145k be the true market rate for Philly and, per 10:59, draw the ire of Morgan/Dechert?

DC got boned

Anecdotally, the top Philly firms seem to be doing quite poorly this recruiting season at the top schools. The obvious explanation is that there's now a $15K disparity between the Philly firms and most other markets. It seems likely that if Morgan and Dechert want to continue to recruit from the schools they've historically been proud of recruiting at, they will have no choice but to raise to $160K before next year's OCI starts.

I want to hear more about bingham and minimum billable hours requirements for NY and what firm has what.

LAT make a thread about this.

Interesting point, 11:53. Or perhaps Dechert/Morgan will simply focus on the top students who are certain they are staying in Philly (as opposed to going to NYC). Are there enough "I want to work in Philly" students at top schools to satisfy the need?

I don't know who wants to be in Philly when they could go to NY Bingham and bill over 2000 hours and not get a bonus...

Well, Blank is the 5th Philly firm to raise starting salaries to $145 (Dechert, Morgan, Pepper and Drinker already have -- with the raises effective this year, not next), so it's not like Blank meeting that number is all of the sudden going to cause Dechert and Morgan to one-up them. The fact is that the salaries re-adjusted in the Spring with some staying at $125 (i.e. Cozen, Fox), some moving to the middle ground of $135 (i.e. Wolf Block, Ballard), and the aforementioned showing their willingness to be market leaders.

I find it really hard to believe that $15k is what persaudes a law student to work in NY over Philly. That difference evaporates once COL is factored in. It has to be something else.

Yeah - its the fact that you can leave work at 6 pm in Philly most days and go to your big ass house and bbq when you're done. This ties in to NY firms requiring 2100 billables and some Philly firms have 1900, 1950 requirements.

Also, you're a big shot in Philly if you're an associate at a big firm - in NY youre just another middle manager-type and you get no street cred.

The flip side is that if you work in NY you feel badass.

Is NY Bingham raising to 2100 hours to pay for 160 or to brace for a salary raise?

"I find it really hard to believe that $15k is what persaudes a law student to work in NY over Philly. That difference evaporates once COL is factored in. It has to be something else."

You are right. The COL consideration alone doesn't make the difference between working in Philly or NYC, because Philly will always win on COL grounds. But spending power is only one factor in a multifactor analysis. Someone who prefers NYC on noneconomic grounds but who nonetheless might be marginally persuaded to work in Philly if Philly and NYC paid equally (because of Philly's better COL), would be somewhat less likely to choose Philly if Philly paid $15K less. Even though spending power would still be better in Philly, someone might require an even better spending power advantage over NYC in order to compensate for foregoing NYC's noneconomic advantages.

12:10, you'd be surprised at what a big difference the thought of a few extra dollars makes to some people. I lateraled to a Texas firm from DC and thought it was funny to hear people say that Bigtex would go down the tubes if Texas firms didn't raise to $160k from $145k. It seemed to be law students and junior associates who felt most strongly that this was the case, because they were all looking at what their peers would make in a different city, for working arguably the same hours. Don't get me wrong, I was happy to have the extra money when the Texas firms finally raised and I think that firms have to consider many issues besides COL when they make compensation decisions. I just thought it was silly to hear people act as if NY and DC associates are so much wealthier due to receiving an extra $15k.

PhillyAssoc-- Your info is incorrect. Ballard has also raised to $145K, effective Jan. 1, and I'm told that Duane Morris is already there.

I agree with the comments about the NY/Philly divide. It's not just about $15K starting salary. Philly has incredible compression and terrible bonuses, so an associate who works three years would make about $100-150K less than a NY associate. Yes, the hours and environment are unquestionably better in Philly, but that's no chump change.

I worked in NY as a first-year, and the work was way more interesting than what I do now as a fourth-year in Philly, street cred or not.

The firms that are at 145 (or will be at 145 as of Jan. 1) are: Dechert, Morgan, Pepper, Duane, Ballard, Blank and Drinker. I am sure Reed Smith will follow suit as will the rest of the Philly Market.

just to explain why the NY/Philly decision is about a lot more than $15K:

a NY associate will make: 160-170-185 with probably an average of $30k/year in bonuses over his first 3 years at the firm.

a philly associate will make 145-149-153, with maybe $5K/year in bonuses.

That's a $143K difference over three years. and once NY goes to $190K, the difference will get closer to $200K over three years.

the numbers would be better at a Dechert or Morgan, but if you're going to work that hard, you might as well do it in NY. The senior associates there are horrible people that make your lives miserable.

Can someone from Ballard confirm 145k? This is the first I've heard about this...

Agree with everyone that has posted about Philly's salary issues. Dechert, and probably Morgan, is going to raise to 160k in the near future. It's been in the works since they decided to go to 145, because they figured Ballard, Blank, Drinker, etc. would match and Dechert and Morgan, as another commenter stated, see themselves as above the rest of the pack.

At the end of the day, it's all window dressing, because compression is preposterous and bonuses are chump change unless you bill 2400 hours.

Philly is a hole...COL doesn't make it any better. You just might be able to afford a few more cheesesteaks at Pat's.

Reed Smith announced months ago that it would raise to 145 starting Jan 2008.
I'm also told that RS bonuses are uniform across offices and depends on hours and billing rate.

To follow up on 1:19 -- yes, someone from Ballard please confirm they are at $145 now as well. Local media reports have always had them at $135 still. Duane as well. Did Duane secretly raise? I thought they were at $135 as well.

Philly is a [w]hole . . .

lot better than the Mets.

At least Philly has a manly signature food. NY cheesecake is for sissy h0m0z.

duane is not at 145K

Thacher Proffitt also had a 2100 hour requirement, but they took it off of their NALP form. Not sure if they're going to lower it, but I doubt it because the securitization market tanked.

Ballard is at 145 as of Jan 1, 2008

not sure where you're getting your bonus info, phillylawyer, but at least two of the firms at 145 (besides MLB/Dechert) have base level bonuses (~1900hrs) of at least $5k. at 2100 you're coming in around that $30k you mentioned.

Duane is 145 as of Jan. 1.

Is it true that Philly firms are officially or unoffically closed for business when the Eagles play on Monday night? I heard everyone starts tailgating around 2pm.

After the raise, here's the new order in Philly:

1. Dechert/MLB
2. Reed Smith
3. Pepper
4. Margolis Edelstein
5. Blank Rome
6. Ballard Sphar

i wonder if Wolf Block and Schnader will continue to follow suit.

i wonder if Wolf Block and Schnader will continue to follow suit.

Can any associate at Blank (or Ballard) speak about the firm in terms of culture / hours / quality of work

(i.e. will I be doing doc review until year five or get good assignments)

Anon 2:48 -- While I'm sure you're oh so subtle plug of Margolis might earn you a few more dollars as their PR flak, you would have to add at least two digits before your "4" for it to make sense.

Reality is:
1-2) Morgan & Dechert
3-8) Drinker, Blank Rome, Pepper, Duane, Ballard, Reed Smith

There has always been a fair parity among the non-Int'l Philly firms.

And there has been no official Ballard announcement, and as for Duane, it 's all based on their Chair's comment that "IF" the market is 145, they would probably go as well, ..but yes by Jan, I'd predict 3-8 will all be 145.

Lat,
We need a Bingham memo to confirm the billable hours requirement. This can't be true. It just can't be true. I refuse to believe~! PLEASE NOOOO 2100 UNLESS THEY ARE BUMPING STARTING SALARY TO 175-190

The only difference that 2100 hours makes is that they're basically taking 10,000 from you assuming the bonuses still start at 35 for first years. It's kinda bullshit if salaries aren't increased to make up for that- but then why do it in the first place?

Margolis Edelstein? Wasn't she on ER?

Margolis Edelstein? Wasn't she on ER?

Bingham to 175-190!

Bingham to 190
Bingham to 190

You're thinking of Juliana Margolis (sp?) a/k/a Carol Hathaway.

145,000 in Philadelphia must equal something like 260,000 in New York. New York firms abuse associates.

Everyone move to Philly!

Re. whether top law school students would choose Philly over NY?

Here's one! I've been looking at NY and Philly and decided on Philly (although not yet on the firm). $145 in Philly is cost adjusted to something like $250+ in NY. Plus, life is so much better and more reasonable. I'd rather live in a nice pad, be able to drive a car, have time for a family, and enjoy my life than say I work in NY. Of course NY has its benefits, but I'm sure I'm not the only person who doesn't go ga-ga over the $190 potential for a first year in NY. It's all about priorities.