Arar v. Ashcroft: An ATL Interview with Josh Sohn of DLA Piper
Last Friday, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit heard oral argument in Arar v. Ashcroft, a high-profile lawsuit arising out of the U.S. government's rendition of Maher Arar, a Canadian citizen, to Syria.
We interviewed DLA Piper partner Joshua Sohn (at right), co-counsel to Mr. Arar along with the Center for Constitutional Rights, about this interesting case and his firm's work on it.
For readers who aren't familiar with the case, what's it all about?
It's about the federal government's extraordinary renditions program, which sends "people of interest" to sites around the world for indefinite detention and interrogation under harsh conditions -- in this case torture. Mr. Arar, who is a computer engineer, Canadian citizen, husband, and father of two young children, was pulled out of the immigration line at JFK when he was attempting to change planes, but not enter the United States. Mr. Arar was interrogated at the airport, detained and interrogated at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, and ultimately flown by private jet in the dead of night to Jordan and delivered to Syria. Mr. Arar was never charged with a crime, was not allowed to consult with an attorney for many days when he was first detained and both he and his attorney were lied to about what was going to happen to him and the fact that he was being sent to Syria.
Mr. Arar made plain to those holding him that he feared being tortured in Syria and that he wanted to be sent to Canada-where he lived and was a citizen. Those pleas were ignored and Mr. Arar was sent to Syria where he was tortured and kept in a grave-like cell for almost a year. This case seeks to hold the federal officials who are responsible for Mr. Arar's treatment, responsible.
Read the rest of the interview, after the jump.
[Ed. note: Please note that we have drawn inspiration in our approach to interviewing from Stephen Colbert of the Colbert Report.]
What is DLA Piper's role in the case? How did the firm first get involved?
We are co-counsel for Mr. Arar with the Center for Constitutional Rights. I was asked by an attorney at CCR who I have worked with for many years to get involved with the case. Our work on the case began in 2003.
How did the argument last Friday go? Based on the questioning from the bench, how are you feeling about your chances?
It is impossible to predict what will happen, but the panel seemed very interested in the issues this case presents and challenged some of the "mechanical" positions that the government has asserted. We are, of course, hopeful that Mr. Arar will get his day in court and that those responsible will be held accountable.
Have you met your client? If so, what is he like?
Unfortunately not in person, because despite having never been charged with any crime whatsoever by any of the four governments that have touched him, Mr. Arar is subject to a 10-year ban on entering the U.S.
At the expiration of that ban, in 2012, he will be able to apply to enter the country. I should mention that the Canadian government conducted an intensive inquiry and issued a report of more than a thousand pages that cleared Mr. Arar and makes plain that he was the victim of a bad information exchange. I have had opportunities to speak with him by phone and have the utmost respect for him. I think he's a remarkable man.
Why did your client decide to become an international terrorist?
The exhaustive inquiry and report of the Canadian Parliament's Commission of Inquiry into the Actions of Canadian Officials in Relation to Maher Arar made unequivocally clear that you'd have to ask some of the current or former officials in the United States Department of Justice that question, because they're the only people that take that position.
The Middle East is one of the world's top tourism regions, rich in history and sites of religious importance. Why is your client complaining about getting a free, all-inclusive trip to Syria?
Primarily because of the quality of his accommodations. Mr. Arar spent nearly a year in underground cell that he has likened to a grave. When he was not actually being tortured, he had to listen to the screams of other prisoners as they were tortured themselves.
Any final thoughts on the case?
This case is critically important to reasserting the primacy of the rule of law domestically and in doing so beginning the work of reestablishing ourselves as credible advocates for respect for the rule of law around the world. As recent events in Pakistan have made clear, we as Americans are easily outraged when other countries disregard the rule of law and act in ways that we find repugnant to our legal tradition. But some among us lack the self awareness to be equally demanding of our own system.
Arar v. Ashcroft [Center for Constitutional Rights]
Joshua S. Sohn [DLA Piper]
(68) Comments
this is awesome
Lame. Wake me when they find someone who is not a terrorist.
Banning one Canadian from entering the US seems like a good start. When will the rest be banned?
You should've asked how DLA thinks their support of terrorism will impact recruiting (isn't that the purpose of ATL?)
why are you letting the WSJ law blog scoop you on lawyer/cheerleaders???
isn't that the reason this blog exists. just in case a lawyer is also a PT NFL cheerleader.
Colbert-Funny
ATL-Pitiful
Kudos to DLA Piper for their work on this case.
I wonder how sorry you'd feel for the guy after wading through the rubble that used to be your home town after some terrorist cell accomplished their mission.
Nice interview Lat.
"Rendition" is perfect example of government inefficiency, waste of money and one of the reasons we have massive deficit! Couldn't they just torture him in Brooklyn?
Stop sending all your terrorist suspects and Gitmo-rejects to us... what the heck, eh?!?
Stop sending all your terrorist suspects and Gitmo-rejects to us... what the heck, eh?!?
Hard Ass: You're not a big fan of little things like human rights or the U.S. Constitution, are you?
Stop sending all your terrorist suspects and Gitmo-rejects to us... what the heck, eh?!?
If he thought Brooklyn was torture, he should see Staten Island ..... ZING!
RENDITION = COMEDY GOLD.
Ummm since when did this blog get about serious stuff? This belongs on Volkoh (sp?) Conspiracy...
Lucky for Sohn that he's a partner b/c wasting his time on such pro-bono cases as an associate would not go down well with DLA's partners..
Let me see if I have this straight:
1. The Canadians tells us that Arar is a terrorist - rather than arrest him themselves.
2. The US sends the the Canadian to the Syrians.
3. The Syrians are not nice to the Canadian.
4. The Canadians conduct an "exhaustive" investigation exonerating all the Canadians involved.
5. Arar sues the US.
Seems to me the lesson is don't trust the Canadians.
Seems the lesson is don't trust the
This story is a complete fabrication:
1) Since when do the U.S. and Syria do anything in concert. Do we have a rendition program with North Korea and Iran?
2) Sending a terrorist to Syria is like throwing Brer' Rabbit into the Briar Patch -- that is where terorists come from (syria, that is, not the briar patch)!
OSAMA LOVES OBAMA
ping
4:41: This is more Balkinization than VC, since it's sympathetic to the accused terrorist.
Anonymous: No, Hardass isn't a fan of the constitution; he's just a douche.
The Canadian investigators uncovered the Holocaust... last year. Blood hounds, those mounties!
The Canadian investigators uncovered the Holocaust... last year. Blood hounds, those mounties!
4:44, nobody is questioning whether or not the guy is in Syria. He's in Syria. That's an admitted fact by all parties. I'm guessing your law degree is a complete fabrication.
NO ONE CARES. POST SOME MORE BONUS NEWS JEEZ..
If they really wanted to torture the boor bastard, they'd tie him to a chair and force him to watch re-runs of The View. Syria's got nothing on that.
Of course our good friends at DLA would try and put a stop to that as well.
The closet DLA Piper has to a Syria office is Cairo and Dubai? Surely there's a billable hour in Damascus it could whore itself out for ...
Good for DLA.
When will DLA match bonuses?
Um, 4:44, read the story again. The guy is no longer in Syria. He was there for a year, and is now in Canada, where he is banned from entering the U.S.
At least the Canadian Supremes are sending back our spineless deserters:
http://thecommonills.blogspot.com/2007/11/canadas-supreme-court-denies-jeremy.html
. . . and tasering people to death:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071116164119.5x42gxdm&show_article=1
GO DLA! Awesome.
First of all, the Constitution doesn't provide any rights to a Canadian citizen. The Supreme Court may have extended certain rights to aliens visiting the United States, but this guy hadn't even officially entered the United States, he was only in the airport for a transfer.
The US government needs to keep its torturing quiet and not let people find out about it. They have done a sucky job at this lately. Why did they ever let the guy go? They should have just "erased" him so this couldn't come back to bite them on the ass. Where are all the hard core intelligence guys that say "screw the rules" I'm protecting my country!
I'm right here.
This is an amazing case, congratulations and good luck!
lat: do more interviews like this
The guy's a terrorist - let him rot
Hardass: Must be tough, being stupid. Go blow Romney or something. Guess you never studied Crim Pro or Con Law.
Also: The Canadian government didn't say he was a terrorist. It said he had some ties to someone who might have been connected to al Qaida.
Hey 4:50, you can call me a douche all you want. But I am not the one bending-over and letting terrorists roam free through the streets. Sometimes you have to crack a few eggs to make an omelet--pussy.
Why don't you worry about the important things in your life, like your undeserved bonus and making the payments on your 325i, and leave the national security issues to those who know what they are doing.
Is this case really news to so many of you? Arar successfully sued the Canadian government, and got 11.5M Canadian/9M U.S. for what they did to him.
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/1/28/15610/8062
6:38 has identified a way to serve omelets with which I was not previously familiar.
Hard Ass: the long-term national security of the US depends on our adherence to both our own constitutional standards and our international treaty commitments. Anyone who thinks otherwise is short-sighted, arrogant, or both. I can't stand people who think that being opposed to TORTURE, of all things, makes one weak on national security. You may or may not be a douche, but you're definitely a dick.
Isn't this the eleventh day of Christmas?
yay Cardozo alum!!!!
good work lat--more cool interviews with cool lawyers.
Actually Aunt Jerimiah, aka 6:44, he got 11.5m CAD/which is more like 12.2m USD and rising.
The Canadians fessed up, admitted they screwed up, apologized and paid the man. Why can't the feds do the same?
Hardass:
Son, your super-patriotism warms the cockles of my heart. It's reassuring to know that if you ever got stuck in a hole for a year we could let you out and say "gee, shucks, had the wrong info or something" and you'd take it like a true modern-day American patriot: right up that hard ass. Keep up the good work.
He wasn't an AMERICAN -- he was a ARAB and other ARABS threw him in a hole. Let Syria pay him.
Canada pays off terrorists and tazer-to-death immigrants from Europe. Priorities...
Folks, wake up. America is already in the process of losing its economic supremacy, don't let it lose it's moral supremacy any more than it already has. A guy was hideously tortured for a year by mistake because he's an A-rab. Regardless of which goverenment screwed up the most, wake up and realize that there's no point of "defeating the terrorists" if a bunch of privilged law school pricks can't even sympathize with a victim of torture without cause. Now I see why this blog sticks to bonuses and porn.
Just two factual remarks pertaining to a comment above:
1) the U.S. has cooperation with the security services of many countries with which other relations are cold. Sometimes it is because these countries have to be hostile to the U.S. for public consumption, and other times it is because our interests with them only coincide on limited matters. We have, though, a fairly good relationship with Syria in this arena, especially given...
2) ...Syria's dislike of Al-Qaeda. Yes, they sponsor / support some terrorist groups that kill innocents (see: Hamas), but they have had their own problems with Islamic fundamentalist terrorism. Syria famously leveled an entire city, Hama, because its mosques were the center of dissent against the government. Therefore, far from being the briar patch, Syria is one of the last places you'd like to be sent if you are suspected / accused of being an Islamic terrorist.
Arar was arrested at the airport, and was deported under US immigration law to a country which he is a citizen of. There is no evidence that this was redaction and there is no evidence the US knew nor intended that he would be tortured.
Until he can prove otherwise, good luck on his lawsuit.
Good for DLA - nice to see some large corporate firms doing good for the sake of doing good for a change...
When did America demonstrate moral supremacy?
When did America demonstrate moral supremacy?
@12:03 - rendition not redaction. Apologies.
I'm appalled that the U.S. would stoop to these levels. So what if he's an Arab? If we claim to believe in certain inalienable human rights, those rights should be protected in every instance. If the U.S. had solid evidence that he was a terrorist, then there's no need to "outsource" the torture to Syria (a country which is just a culpable as the U.S. in this instance). Don't we all realize -- if they did it to him, what's to stop them from doing it to Americans, as well? Congress gave the government too much power.
The Feds at least owe him an apology. And they should get rid of the Military Commissions Act.
The Stephen Colbert approach was in poor taste, guys.
"This case is critically important to reasserting the primacy of the rule of law domestically and in doing so beginning the work of reestablishing ourselves as credible advocates for respect for the rule of law around the world."
I seem to have misplaced the "credible advocates for respect for the rule of law" suppement to my sovereign immunity textbook...
12:03 proves that not only is he stupid, but that he also cannot read. This guy was a citizen of Canada not a citizen of Syria idiot.
12:03 proves that not only is he stupid, but that he also cannot read. This guy was a citizen of Canada not a citizen of Syria, idiot.
4:12, 4:14 proves he neither knows the case nor bothers to learn even the basics of the case before commenting on them. Arar was born in Syria and has never renounced his Syrian citizenship. He holds both Candian and Syrian citizenship.
Good try, though, sport.
I think Lat forgot to add one sentence in his lead-in before jumping to the interview: "Please note that these are mere allegations made by the attorneys representing Mr. Arar."
I think Lat forgot to add one sentence in his lead-in before jumping to the interview: "Please note that these are mere allegations made by the attorneys representing Mr. Arar."
6:18 pm --
(a) why would Lat use the "mere allegations" line? That's a criminal defense lawyer's line to the press when he has nothing else to say. Thanks for letting us know you watch Law & Order.
(b) a number of the factual statements of what did and did not happen to the guy have been conceded; so they're not "mere" allegations.
(c) most of us are old enough to know that when a case is pending, there might be some allegations that are still in dispute. And that the parties on opposite sides of the "v." probably disagree with each other.
Wasn't he tortured by Americans, not Syrians?
That is what the US was doing in other countries... Our agents took another guy from Italy somewhere else (???) and tortured him there...
What happened to that? Did those agents ultimately get tried in the Italian courts??? I know the Italians were gunning for them.
12:03, 4:26 - right on. I agree with 5:52 that they should have never let this scumbag see the light of day. He would be better off as worm food.