Associate Bonus Watch: Kaye Scholer Announces
The firm of Kaye Scholer is the latest to jump on the bonus bandwagon. They’ve just announced year-end and special bonuses. The year-end bonuses are issued in ranges for each class; the special bonuses, to be paid “on a discretionary basis,” appear to be on the standard scale ($10k/$15k/$20k, etc.).
Memo after the jump.
From: Barry Willner
Sent: 11/08/2007 03:16 PM EST
To: All Associates
Cc: All Partners; NY Counsel
Subject: 2007 Bonuses
We are pleased to announce that the Firm will once again be paying bonuses.
It has been another terrific year for the Firm and the partners again
express their appreciation to you for your hard work and dedication to the
Firm and our clients. Consistent with our approach in past years, bonuses
will range from $35,000 to $75,000, including proration for those here
less than a full year. Bonuses will be paid to associates performing up to
the Firm’s expectations on the same hours-based criteria as we used last
year which takes into account billable hours through the end of this year,
including pro bono hours. The range of bonuses is as follows:
Class of 2007— $35,000 (prorated).
Class of 2006 - $35,000 to $45,000.
Class of 2005— $40,000 to $50,000.
Class of 2004— $45,000 to $55,000.
Class of 2003— $50,000 to $60,000.
Class of 2002— $55,000 to $65,000.
Class of 2001 — $60,000 to $70,000.
Class of 2000 — $65,000 to $75,000.
Class of 1999 — $65,000 to $75,000.
In addition to the above year-end bonuses, the Firm is also pleased to
announce that in New York on a discretionary basis we will be paying to
associates a one-time performance based special bonus in the amounts listed
below:
Class of 2007- n/a
Class of 2006 - $10,000
Class of 2005 - $15,000
Class of 2004 - $20,000
Class of 2003 - $30,000
Class of 2002 - $40,000
Class of 2001 - $50,000
Class of 2000 - $50,000
Class of 1999 - $50,000
Other senior associates and counsel will continue to receive bonuses on an
individual basis.
(192) Comments
Comments
FIZIRST!
Flurry of Firsts!!!
2
100th!!
Am I too early?
doh!
I have just conducted a very extensive statistical analysis to determine if and when raises are going to happen.
Mark your calendars. In about 65 days there will be a raise to $185,000 in NYC.
You know what's amazing... my initial post is timestamped before the actual posting of the story... BOW DOWN TO ME!!!
Flurry of Firsts!!!
LOL. What they left out of the memo is that at kaye scholar you need 2400 hours to get market.
Calendars for 2008 have not arrived yet
2400 for market? You must be joking!
3:37: No you don't. You need 2000.
What's up with firms in LA? Can someone please fill me in.
That is not true. You need 2000 hours to get market and unlike at other firms, can get above-market if you bill more than that - usually 2400 hours.
Strange...
2006 - 35-45K
Special - 10K on a discretionary basis
So can you get 55 total?
Nixon Peabody just sent out a memo. It's in PDF so I can't copy and paste but the basic gist is this:
"We are going to match regular bonuses. We planned to match special bonuses but we spent all of that excess money hiring a soul group to record the Nixon Peabody non-theme song. We think that in time you will agree that the money was better spent this way."
It should go up on the front page in a couple of minutes.
what ARE the hours based criteria?
I know that you need to bill 2000 at the Kaye Scholer D.C. office to get a bonus.
Based on the memo, it looks like the bonus amounts apply to D.C. as well. So far, it looks like a lot of firms who do business in D.C. will pay out NYC level bonuses to their D.C. associates.
Any word on when D.C. firms might begin to match?
KS memo applies to ALL associates - Chicago, DC and LA, as well as NY.
discretionary AND performance based? Does that mean that you could bill a ton of hours, impress partners and win clients but they would still, at their discretion, stiff you?
Kaye Scholer rocks. Highly underrated firm.
I know that you need to bill 2000 at the Kaye Scholer D.C. office to get a bonus.
Based on the memo, it looks like the bonus amounts apply to D.C. as well. So far, it looks like a lot of firms who do business in D.C. will pay out NYC level bonuses to their D.C. associates.
Any word on when D.C. firms might begin to match?
Well, this is discretionary, so they didn't match.
Go Barry! KS beat Schulte, Latham etc. to it!
Any word from Second City firms? Kirkland, Sidley, Jenner, Mayer?
Whats up with WimerHale? Where is the updated list of shame? Is there anyone ahead of Wilmer on the v20 that hasn't matched?
Where's the list of shame?!? Whoever was posting that needs to keep it up to keep the pressure on.
LATHAM!?!? WHERE ARE YOU!?!?!?!?!?
I know that you need to bill 2000 at the Kaye Scholer D.C. office to get a bonus.
Based on the memo, it looks like the bonus amounts apply to D.C. as well. So far, it looks like a lot of firms who do business in D.C. will pay out NYC level bonuses to their D.C. associates.
Any word on when D.C. firms might begin to match?
latham! latham!!!! where you at dawg!
So a 2006 associate who billed 2000 hours gets a market bonus and one who billed 2400 gets an extra 10k? $25 buck an hour, nice.
Reading this memo its not clear that anyone is getting the special bonus, or what the criteria is. Can anyone at Kaye Scholer clarify?
So, I have offers from a couple of V5 firms. They tell me that if I go anywhere else I'll be working just as hard for less money. But as far as I can tell all of these firms seem to have matching comp. How can this be?
Well, it's discretionary, so they didn't match Cravath
3:49, nada
The regular bonuses ie $35,000 to $75,000 applies to all associates who meet certain hour requirements (2,000 hours for the standard, 2,400 for the extra).
It appears that the special bonus will ONLY be paid in NY (that much is clear), but to all NY associates, with the caveat that some discretionary performance criteria will have to be met.
since the latham partners are all at a meeting, can we assume that may mean that they may be discussing associate comp and bonus issues. where my associates from the latham associates committee at? come out dawg and tell us what is happening.
People are going to freak about "discretionary" and "performance based", but if you are get the maximum, you make more than at Cravath...
Last year at Kaye Scholer the class of 2005 got $50K for 2400. So this is a $5K bump down. Looks that way all across the board.
And "discretionary" comes with no definition. So nobody knows if and when they'll get the special bonus. IMHO, KS associates will get screwed, very gently and quietly.
Old Lady #1: When my ex-husband passed away, the insurance company said his policy didn't cover him.
Old Lady #2: They didn't have enough money for the funeral.
Old Lady #3: It's so hard nowadays..
Old Lady #1: What about the robots?
Old Lady #4: Oh, they're everywhere!
Old Lady #1: I don't even know why the scientists make them.
Old Lady #2: Darren and I have a policy with Old Glory Insurance, in case we're attacked by robots.
Old Lady #1: An insurance policy with a robot plan? Certainly, I'm too old.
Old Lady #2: Old Glory covers anyone over the age of 50 against robot attack, regardless of current health.
[ cut to Sam Waterston, Compensated Endorser ]
Sam Waterson: I'm Sam Waterston, of the popular TV series "Law & Order". As a senior citizen, you're probably aware of the threat robots pose. Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel. Well, now there's a company that offers coverage against the unfortunate event of robot attack, with Old Glory Insurance. Old Glory will cover you with no health check-up or age consideration. [ SUPER: Limitied Benefits First Two Years ] You need to feel safe. And that's harder and harder to do nowadays, because robots may strike at any time.
[ show pie chart reading "Cause of Death in Persons Over 50 Years of Age": Heart Disease, 42% - Robots, 58% ]
And when they grab you with those metal claws, you can't break free.. because they're made of metal, and robots are strong. Now, for only $4 a month, you can achieve peace of mind in a world full of grime and robots, with Old Glory Insurance. So, don't cower under your afghan any longer. Make a choice. [ SUPER: "WARNING: Persons denying the existence of Robots may be Robots themselves. ] Old Glory Insurance. For when the metal ones decide to come for you - and they will.
Last year at Kaye Scholer the class of 2005 got $50K for 2400. So this is a $5K bump down. Looks that way all across the board.
And "discretionary" comes with no definition. So nobody knows if and when they'll get the special bonus. IMHO, KS associates will get screwed, very gently and quietly.
"In addition to the above year-end bonuses, the Firm is also pleased to
announce that in NEW YORK on a discretionary basis we will be paying to
associates a one-time performance based special bonus in the amounts listed
below:"
The special bonus only seems to apply NY
What does Class of 2007 mean? They are giving bonuses to associates who just started like last month? Does anyone know if most AMLAW100 do this? Mine isn't paying bonuses to "fall associates" which I thought seemed logical until I see all of these firms with 2007 in their memos.
Thnks.
wow, Kaye Scholer, being ranked near the V70 mark matching just changed the landscape considerable. I would think nearly all new york office associates will be getting the special now.
Any idea when the bonus will be paid? End of Jan as usual? I'm hoping for mid-Jan.
discretionary AND performance based? Does that mean that you could bill a ton of hours, impress partners and win clients but they would still, at their discretion, stiff you?
Robots = funny
NYC Bonus List of Shame
2008 Vault Rank / Firm / 2005 RPL (if known)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8 Latham & Watkins LLP / $875,000
* 9 Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP / $954,000 (rumored to have matched)
10 Covington & Burling LLP / $774,000
* 11 Kirkland & Ellis LLP / $987,000 (Punted)
12
13
14
15 WilmerHale / 846,000
16 Williams & Connolly LLP /
17 Sidley Austin LLP / $774,000
18 Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP / $1,011,000
19 O'Melveny & Myers LLP / $828,000
20
21 Arnold & Porter LLP / $816,000
22 Jones Day / 602,000
23 Morrison & Foerster LLP / $735,000
24
25
* 26 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft / $940,000 (Rumored to have matched)
27 Hogan & Hartson LLP / $735,000
28 Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP / $750,000
29
30 Ropes & Gray LLP / 841,000
31 Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker / $766,000
32
33 Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP / $779,000
34 Winston & Strawn LLP / $718,000
35
36 Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati / $752,000
37 Linklaters /
38 Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe / 767,000
39 Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer LLP /
40 Proskauer Rose LLP / $745,000
...
...
43. (Quinn Matched)
55. (Cahill Matched)
67. (Kaye Scholer Matched)
NR. McKee Nelson (Failed to Match)
Peg - Class of 2007 means the new entering class as of this fall. They don't get the full $35K; it will be prorated according to arrival date. This is standard in NYC... I don't know of any BigLaw firm in NYC that doesn't do it.
Bonuses to all law students at the top 15 law schools upon receiving an offer of admission!
Where is Kaye Scholer on PPP or RPL? They aren't on the list that one helpful commenter posts in the bonus threads.
Rank 2006 in revenue
by revenue Revenue per lawyer
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Wachtell ABOVE MARKET $2,455,000 2.5%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Sullivan & Cromwell MARKET & ABOVE MARKET FOR SENIOR ASSOC. $1,565,000 1.3%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 Wiley Rein $1,520,000 162.1%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 Cravath MARKET $1,355,000 5.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 Davis Polk MARKET $1,200,000 4.8%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 Simpson Thacher-MARKET $1,200,000 6.7%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7 McKee Nelson BELOW MARKET $1,190,000 1.7%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8 Milbank, Tweed MARKET $1,110,000 10.4%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9 Skadden MARKET $1,095,000 10.1%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10 Cahill Gordon MARKET $1,075,000 8.6%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11 Fragomen, Del Rey $1,070,000 26.6%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12 Gibson, Dunn $1,050,000 4.0%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12 Irell & Manella $1,050,000 9.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
14 Kirkland & Ellis PUNTED $1,035,000 5.1%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
14 Paul, Weiss MARKET $1,035,000 0.5%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
16 Munger, Tolles $1,025,000 18.5%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
17 Quinn Emanuel $1,020,000 28.3% SLIGHTLY ABOVE MARKET BUT PARTIALLY DEFERRED
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
18 Shearman & Sterling MARKET $1,010,000 2.0%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
19 Debevoise & Plimpton MARKET $1,005,000 8.6%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20 Cadwalader BONUS ANNOUNCED, NO $ FIGURES $1,000,000 6.4%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
21 Boies, Schiller $980,000 3.2%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
21 Weil, Gotshal MARKET $980,000 2.6%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
23 Cleary Gottlieb MARKET $975,000 7.1%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
24 Willkie Farr MARKET $970,000 12.8%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25 Williams & Connolly $955,000 2.7%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
26 Finnegan, Henderson $945,000 11.2%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
27 Townsend and Townsend $940,000 6.2%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
28 Fried, Frank $930,000 MARKET 4.5%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
29 Schulte Roth $925,000 6.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
30 Latham & Watkins $920,000 5.1%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
31 Wilmer Cutler $890,000 5.3%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
32 McDermott Will $875,000 12.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
33 Kaye Scholer MATCHED $865,000 7.5%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
34 Arnold & Porter $855,000 4.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
34 Ropes & Gray $855,000 1.8%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
36 Choate, Hall $850,000 10.4%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
36 Kramer Levin $850,000 6.3%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
38 Heller Ehrman $845,000 5.0%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
39 Akin Gump $840,000 7.7%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
40 Hughes Hubbard $835,000 12.1%
Not listed: Dewey (Market with hours requirement)
Clifford Chance (Market)
White & Case (Market)
4:07 -- I agree. In light of the Kaye Scholer announcement, any New York-based firm in the V100 that doesn't match is basically throwing up their collective hands and admitting that not only can they not play with the big boys, they can't even play with the junior varsity. Hopefully, they will then cancel all on campus interviews at Columbia, NYU, Cornell (and heck, even Fordham) next year and concentrate on Brooklyn, St. John's, New York Law School and Touro, where they belong.
dealbreaker.com's performance on this whole comment thing is a real deal breaker
Please use THIS LIST in the future!!!!
REVISED NYC Bonus List of Shame (1-60)
2008 Vault Rank / Firm / 2005 RPL (if known)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8 Latham & Watkins LLP / $875,000
9
10 Covington & Burling LLP / $774,000
* 11 Kirkland & Ellis LLP / $987,000 (Punted)
12
13
14
15 Wilmer Cutler / 846,000
16 Williams & Connolly LLP /
17 Sidley Austin LLP / $774,000
18 Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP / $1,011,000
19 O'Melveny & Myers LLP / $828,000
20
21 Arnold & Porter LLP / $816,000
22 Jones Day / 602,000
23 Morrison & Foerster LLP / $735,000
24
25
26 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft / $940,000
27 Hogan & Hartson LLP / $735,000
28 Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP / $750,000
29
30 Ropes & Gray LLP / 841,000
31 Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker / $766,000
32
33 Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP / $779,000
34 Winston & Strawn LLP / $718,000
35
36 Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati / $752,000
37 Linklaters /
38 Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe / 767,000
39 Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer LLP /
40 Proskauer Rose LLP / $745,000
41. King and Spalding
42. Morgan, Lewis & Bockius
43. (Quinn Matched)
44. Baker & McKenzie
45. Baker Botts LLP
46. Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP
47. Munger, Tolles & Olson LLP
48. Dechert LLP
49. Irell & Manella LLP
50. McDermott, Will & Emery
51. Jenner & Block LLP
52. LeBoeuf, Lamb, Greene & MacRae LLP
53. Allen & Overy LLP
54. DLA Piper
55. (Cahill Matched)
56. Fish & Richardson P.C.
57. Fulbright & Jaworski LLP
58. Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP
59. Goodwin Procter LLP
60. Cooley Godward LLP
...
67. (Kaye Scholer Matched)
NR. McKee Nelson (Failed to Match)
Way to go Barry!!!
KS doesn't put as much pressure on lower ranked firms as you'd think, since they're low 30s on RPL and PPPs, despite their low Vault ranking.
Plus, chances are KS had a great year this year, in comparison to a lot of firms, because they do close to zero capital markets / hedge funds / securitization work.
2006 PROFITS PER PARTNER
Rank by Profits Per Partner/Firm/2006 profits per partner/Change in profits per partner from 2005
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Wiley Rein $4,435,000 465.0%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Wachtell $3,975,000 4.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 Boies, Schiller $3,050,000 8.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 Cravath $3,015,000 16.0%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 Cadwalader $2,900,000 13.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6 Sullivan & Cromwell $2,820,000 17.0%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7 Cahill Gordon $2,575,000 12.7%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8 Paul, Weiss $2,495,000 0.8%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8 Simpson Thacher $2,495,000 5.3%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10 Quinn Emanuel $2,430,000 27.6%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11 Kirkland & Ellis $2,270,000 7.1%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12 Milbank, Tweed $2,165,000 7.2%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
13 Schulte Roth $2,160,000 13.7%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
14 Cleary Gottlieb $2,120,000 8.2%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15 Skadden $2,090,000 9.4%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
16 Willkie Farr $2,035,000 13.7%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
17 Dechert $1,985,000 27.2%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
18 Weil, Gotshal $1,900,000 3.8%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
19 Latham & Watkins $1,855,000 15.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20 Davis Polk $1,820,000 7.7%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
21 Debevoise & Plimpton $1,805,000 7.8%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
21 Fragomen, Del Rey $1,805,000 47.3%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
23 Gibson, Dunn $1,750,000 7.0%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
24 McKee Nelson $1,720,000 9.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25 Irell & Manella $1,675,000 11.7%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
26 Shearman & Sterling $1,650,000 19.1%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
27 O'Melveny & Myers $1,625,000 0.6%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
28 Paul, Hastings $1,605,000 21.1%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
29 Fried, Frank $1,525,000 23.0%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
29 Kramer Levin $1,525,000 10.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
31 Kasowitz, Benson $1,505,000 0.0%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
32 White & Case $1,500,000 21.0%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
33 Dewey Ballantine $1,450,000 18.4%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
34 Townsend and Townsend $1,440,000 6.3%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
35 Goodwin Procter $1,430,000 14.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
35 Orrick $1,430,000 15.3%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
37 LeBoeuf, Lamb $1,425,000 7.5%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
38 Kaye Scholer $1,410,000 9.7%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
38 McDermott Will $1,410,000 10.2%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
40 Proskauer Rose $1,330,000 9.0%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
41 King & Spalding $1,310,000 24.8%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
41 Thacher Proffitt $1,310,000 0.4%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
43 Sidley Austin $1,305,000 5.7%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
44 Akin Gump $1,295,000 34.2%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
45 Wilson Sonsini $1,275,000 30.1%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
46 Jeffer, Mangels $1,250,000 -14.4%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
47 Morgan, Lewis $1,240,000 24.0%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
48 Stroock & Stroock $1,225,000 7.0%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
49 Bingham McCutchen $1,220,000 0.4%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
49 Howrey $1,220,000 27.1%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
49 Munger, Tolles $1,220,000 12.4%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what does the % refer to after the revenue?
Please use THIS LIST in the future!!!!
REVISED NYC Bonus List of Shame (1-60)
2008 Vault Rank / Firm / 2005 RPL (if known)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8 Latham & Watkins LLP / $875,000
9
10 Covington & Burling LLP / $774,000
* 11 Kirkland & Ellis LLP / $987,000 (Punted)
12
13
14
15 Wilmer Cutler / 846,000
16 Williams & Connolly LLP /
17 Sidley Austin LLP / $774,000
18 Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP / $1,011,000
19 O'Melveny & Myers LLP / $828,000
20
21 Arnold & Porter LLP / $816,000
22 Jones Day / 602,000
23 Morrison & Foerster LLP / $735,000
24
25
26 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft / $940,000
27 Hogan & Hartson LLP / $735,000
28 Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP / $750,000
29
30 Ropes & Gray LLP / 841,000
31 Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker / $766,000
32
33 Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP / $779,000
34 Winston & Strawn LLP / $718,000
35
36 Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati / $752,000
37 Linklaters /
38 Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe / 767,000
39 Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer LLP /
40 Proskauer Rose LLP / $745,000
41. King and Spalding
42. Morgan, Lewis & Bockius
43. (Quinn Matched)
44. Baker & McKenzie
45. Baker Botts LLP
46. Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP
47. Munger, Tolles & Olson LLP
48. Dechert LLP
49. Irell & Manella LLP
50. McDermott, Will & Emery
51. Jenner & Block LLP
52. LeBoeuf, Lamb, Greene & MacRae LLP
53. Allen & Overy LLP
54. DLA Piper
55. (Cahill Matched)
56. Fish & Richardson P.C.
57. Fulbright & Jaworski LLP
58. Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP
59. Goodwin Procter LLP
60. Cooley Godward LLP
...
67. (Kaye Scholer Matched)
NR. McKee Nelson (Failed to Match)
I have excellent Blue Book skills, the best. I assume that these skills would be highly prized at a top firm. How do I turn my Blue Book knowledge into an offer?
4:06 is correct. The discretionary bonuses apply to New York only. Associates outside of New York only get the standard bonus. This'll probably be what the Cheap 3, Covington, Sidley, etc. do, unfortunately.
3L, the % is the change in PPP from from 2005 to 2006.
KS wouldn't stick it's neck out to announce bonuses ahead of the market only to screw NY associates on the special bonus - that would be stupid. They just don't want to commit to paying poor performers - understandable.
@ the person who posted the new revised lists:
Please take over posting the lists. My firm just matched and I have work to do.
4:22 -
Even if Sidley only pays the special bonus in NY, the base bonus starting at 35K would be a big raise from last year (last year first years got 20K, while NY associates got 35K).
As long as Chicago gets some sort of a raise, I'll be happy!
Is Schulte going to match this?
to the list of shame posters, why are you using 2005 RPL instead of 2006 RPL or 2006 PPP
The list @ 4:12 is 2006 RPLs. The list of shame was never really updated when first created when I could only easily find 2005 RPLs.
Don't use PPPs because I don't think they're a good indicator of a firm's ability to pay a bonus, b/c they only reflect a firm's equity partners, and thus are skewed by firms deequitizing partners. RPLs are harder to skew.
So, I have offers from a couple of V5 firms. They tell me that if I go anywhere else I'll be working just as hard for less money. But as far as I can tell all of these firms seem to have matching comp. How can this be?
Paging Proskauer ... paging Proskauer ... sweatshops need bonuses, too.
They are matching headline comp, but at V5's everyone gets that comp, where it gets less frequent as you move away.
@ 4:40, the comp differentiates as you get to be a partner - or, if you work at Kirkland, immediately.
4:28 - I'm sure they will... If they didn't, they would be making a HUGE negative statement to their current associates and recruits given their high PPP and competitive compensation history.
NY Largest 25 as listed in this weeks Crains
1) Skadden
2) Simpson
3) Paul Weiss
4) Weil
5) Dewey & LeBoeuf
6) Davis Polk
7) Debevoise
8) Cleary
9)Sidley Austin
10) Proskauer
11) Cravath
12) Cadwalader
13) Sullivan & Cromwell
14) Shearman
15) Schulte
16) Wilson Elser (who are they? :-))
17) Willkie
18) Fried Frank
19) Latham & Watkins
20) White & Case
210 Kaye Scholer
22) Milbank
23) Kramer Levin
24) Clifford Chance
25) Greenberg Taurig
jesus christ who cares about schulte - in every post on bonuses the same moron asks about schulte
barring a last minute surge by VC in the final 9 minutes, looks like ATL will win best law blog. congrats lat.
Stop being complacent. As long as . . ., I'll be happy. WHY? We bill a lot in the Chicago office of Chicago V100 firm (more than our friends in NY office). We DESERVE the same bonus.
Emory Riddle has a Law School???
Interesting. Hall of shame going by NY Largest 25 as listed in this weeks Crains
1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)Sidley Austin
10) Proskauer
11)
12)
13)
14)
15) Schulte
16) Wilson Elser
17)
18)
19) Latham & Watkins
20)
210
22)
23) Kramer Levin
24)
25) Greenberg Taurig
Who cares about the Vault? You can't buy drinks with prestige. Also, can people not use the phrase "big boys"? It reminds of the scene in Wall Street where Charlie Sheen's pitching to the unions and keeps referring to "going after the majors" and its annoying.
RPL and PPP (to a lesser extent) are the real listings to look at, especially when it comes to comp.
And saying Kaye Scholer matched doesn't seem right. Unless you know that everyone's getting the bonus, how is it a match? Plus they aren't paying the same across offices. The guaranteed bonus firms that someone posted before are really the gold standard. And Wachtell's platinum.
I disagree with 4:47. All you really want to see is that you have the chance to get paid as much as anyone with the same job. No one aspire to being at the bottom of their class, and few people would suggest that those performing poorly or not billing reasonable numbers deserve the same compensation as stars and those who have put in the hours.
The annoying thing is when you work somewhere where the compensation maxes out below market even if you bill 2400 hours.
(Can you tell that my situation...?).
If it is discretionary, it is NOT a match.
Everything is discretionary - just because it doesn't say so in the memo doesn't mean everything.
Sidley's on deck...
5:08 -- Do you work at a V5 shop? Doesn't sound like it. I've never heard of a person at mine failing to receive a full bonus.
The robot thing loses a lot when you can't see the awesomely cheesy robots and Sam Waterston summoning all of his considerable abilities not to laugh during the sketch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScjAk5yvKxc
Hey, Lat:
Why don't you put up a poll or polls so that we can vote on whether each of the firms "matched" based upon the language of their memos? That way we can look at that to get a sense of the consensus, we don't have to have crazed debates about it across all the threads regardless of the firm that is supposedly being discussed, and we won't have to hunt around for all the opinions on the matter.
Do it in alpha order with number of votes for and against displayed. Now.
Please.
4:56 ... CWT DID NOT MATCH, at best the punted, at worst pissed in your eye
5:10 - Cravath fired some associates on the Friday before they announced bonuses (one didn't show for our 5-year HLS reunion, apparently because of it).
How's that for "discretion"?
I disagee with 5:04.
Given that associates (especially those below 5th year) in no way drive business at most of these firms, I think not paying bonuses out equally to associates in the same class is cheap. Why should an associate in a slow department be penalized for the partners failing to bring in business?
This is 5.04 - 5.21 makes a very good point, but if you have a slow year, you have a better life than someone who slaved away in a busy group. I don't think it's any fairer for someone billing 1900 and someone billing 2500 to be paid the same because one group was busier than another.
After all, a "bonus" is by its nature a supplement to base salary.
5:21 - and I disagree with you. You're not entitled to anything but the base. If you work in an unproductive department (1) this most likely could have been avoided when you accepted an offer in that department and (2) even if you couldn't - you're not working as much. When you're enjoying your free time, your colleagues are in the office working. Why should you be paid the same - is that fair to the person who was at the office at 10 pm when you were out with friends having drinks?
No, it's not, one way to deal with it is to give the associates who are getting demolished more money than you. I don't see why this is such a big deal. Greed makes people ridiculous.
This is 5.04 again - High five, 5.25!
Reeee--ee--ee--mix!!!!
I've HAD IT with all these MUTHERFUCKING bonuses from these MOTHEFUCKING firms!!
I think tying bonuses to hours is a pretty sketchy move for a firm. We're talking about a lot of money that one can get by padding hours and that has to be tempting.
Anyway, aren't the "best" associates the ones that do the job right the first time, in less time than the next guy? Aren't these the ones to be rewarded? so just looking at billables seems dumb.
5:25,
Try telling that to Fried Frank associates who were told that the firm pays the same market as comparable firms like Willkie and Debevoise. Trust me, we felt entitled to it. Wrongly.
I completely agree with you 5:33, but the bottom line is the more billables you have, the more $$$ the firm makes, which means the more $$$ into partners pockets. Thefore, by billing 2400 hours I feel you should be compensated more than your next door neighbor who billed 1800 hours.
5:33 you're full of nonsense. If you're a star, even if you're efficient, you'll very probably still get enough work to bill more. There's no excuse not to make 2000 hours. If you want to make the bonus, ask for billable work and if you don't get it get a pro bono case (counts in many firms towards billables).
100th!!!!! YES
I don't have to hit any target billable number to make my bonus.
Sidley on deck... Yeah, right. You must not work for Sidley.
5:44 - that's right. But it's still below market.
102nd!!!
Agree with 5:46. As someone who is having a very busy year (2400, which for my 2nd tier toilet firm is considered very high), I do not think that it is fair for someone billing 1800 to receive the same bonus. That said, my 2400 year is NOT by choice - this is the first time in 7 years that I have been this high. I do not try to be a star biller - QOL is far more important to me. Having been on both sides of the billing scale, I would personally take a $50k bonus for billing 2000 and getting out in time for dinner 3-4 nights per week than $100k to bill 2400 and eat dinner at my desk most nights. Just saying.
5:20 -- Cravath doesn't fire people.
RE: Class of 2007 Bonuses - see 4:09 above
LATHAM DOES NOT GIVE BONUSES TO STUB YEAR ASSOCIATES. I REPEAT LATHAM IS A TTT
6.00 - Tell that to the person/people who got fired. It was much discussed at the 5-year HLS reunion on October 27.
6:04
do you have / can you provide any more details? class year, department, etc.
You're sooooooo cool for going to the HLS reunion. OOOOHHH!!!!!! Why don't you mention it a few more times.
I could, but I'm not going to. That's not something anyone wants to be famous for.
my predictions for the next round (in order):
1) Proskauer
2) Lathan
3) Stroock
4) Weil (unless they have - rumor)
5) Schulte
6) Sidley
7) Greenburg
8) Jacoby & Meyers
Wilmer will match tomorrow.
Weil matched yesterday. Read the memo.
I think it ultimately comes down to what your firm values---speed/efficiency or big billables.
When you're working at a top firm, there isn't as much emphasis on billables because there is more than enough work to keep you busy. We have clients that want things done well and quickly (at least on the corporate side) and they're willing to pay a premium for that. As a result, our partners are swimming in money. So knocking down an extra couple thousand isn't going to to be as painful. Plus, you get better working conditions because as an associate you don't have to worry about billables--just get the work at hand done. People can spread out vacation times more (i.e. not wait until the 3rd or 4th quarter to make sure their hours are sufficient) and enjoy/appreciate down time more because they aren't worried about "wasted" time. Therefore, the smartest, quickest associates don't burn out as quickly and are more likely to stay at their firms longer. Add in the fact that demand has increased (bigger economy, bigger dealers, more lawyers) but the supply has either stayed steady (same number of lawyers coming out of elite law schools) or decreased (more law students opting not to start at big firms).
It's basic business. It just depends on whether your firm has a short-term outlook (0-1 years) or a long-term outlook (3-5+ years). Or whether you're at a firm where the lawyers are very poor businessmen (true far too often).
Ropes will match before Wilmer. Ropes Rules!
Cravath doesn't fire people???? of course it does - it just does it in a different way - it tortures you slowly with snide, underhanded comments and "discussions" that eat away at your every insecurity and foible until you are a shrivelling, dribbling reflection of your former existence that is easy to SMACK down with a feather and boot out the door.
6:21 quit complaining and go to a top firm
The salary wars won't end until there is a two tier system--a differentiation between the truly top firms (top 10-15) and the rest. There is a reason why certain firms only, or only largely, do the big transactions/cases---they don't do corporate governance work or small commercial litigation---because that's where the money is. The top firms, at least on the corporate side, aren't competing with other law firms for the top talent. They're competing with their clients---the ibanks, the PE firms, the institutional lenders, etc. And in comparison, the law firms, even the elite law firms, can't truly compete in compensation. So they'll keep pulling away from the pack until the rest of the V50 or V100 can no longer keep up.
When is Simpson going to match?
CHICAGO to 190!
When will Cravath match?
Simpson was one of the first ones to match---either right after Cravath or the next one in line. Most folks at Simpson got an email about the match before they'd even heard of the special bonuses.
Sidley will not issue an announcement until the market for Chicago, DC and LA bonus compensation has been set. Ultimately, I'd be surprised if Sidley didn't match in NY. However, I'd be astonished if Sidley provided the same bonus compensation for its other offices. Truth be told, I don't expect Sidley to even match the base bonus for its Chicago, DC and LA associates. Vamos a ver...
But if Sidley gives out a special bonus in NY and leaves bonuses in its other offices untouched, there will be a huge difference between offices. 15K is one thing, but when you're looking at 25K+ between NY and other offices, it really lowers morale.
6:15: Says who?
The idea that all, or at least almost all, firms in the V100 will always pay exactly the same is preposterous. It is not "natural" - just look at all other major legal markets around the world. In London, for example, not even every firm in the Magic Circle pays exactly the same for equivalent year qualified solicitors/associates - they are all in the same ballpark, but not the same. Below them are the second and third tier firms - some come close in terms of salary but it is not expected to be the same. It is not sustainable that most "big" firms in the US will always be able to pay exactly the same as each other - it just wont happen. Enjoy the current state of affairs, especially those lower down the V list because things won't be the same forever, and you will just have to accept that when it happens.
NEW YORK TO 190 4-EVA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
6:50 -- Well spoken.
It is absurd thay firms and partners complain about salary with as much as partner profits have increased.
6:50 - I actually agree with that point, despite being at a firm lower down the v-list. The problem with what you suggest is that it would take a MASSIVE salary move by the V1-15 - something along the line of 50k across the board - for the v15 - 100 firms not to match. And, there really is no incentive for the V1 - 15 to do that. As it stands, the top firms share in the top talent and do not compete with the lower tiered firms, so there is no reason to increase pay only to compete for the same associates. I think that we will see market pay for the upcoming several years, at a minimum.
Of course, it would be nice to be the beneficiary of continued pay wars, no?
The strongest force keeping firms paying the same as each other is Abovethelaw.com.
while we all love ATL, the strongest force keeping firms paying the same is EGO
Has Cravath matched?
6:50/6:58, what the Hell do "The Vault"'s ratings have to do with any of this? The firms with the highest revenues and profits -- not the firms who are ranked "most prestigious" by the tiny fraction of ignorant law students and lawyers who actually fill out the Vault survey -- will be the ones that can afford to set themselves apart. Obviously there's some crossover there (Wachtell is #1 in both, for instance), but the top 10-15 is not the same. Cahill (#55 on "The Vault"), for instance, has a lot more $$ to throw around than Latham or Covington (#8 and #9 on "The Vault," respectively). All this Vault stuff on here just reflects the high percentage of clueless law students who visit this site. When you start working and receive the Vault survey which asks you to assign specific prestige numbers to every single firm in the country (determinations you have zero foundation to make), you'll see it for the worthless scam it is. But even if the methodology was decent, as another poster put it: "prestige don't buy you drinks [or pay for associate raises]."
hey 4:20 - pretty silly to have dewey off the list of shame but leave llgm on there.
7.11. Vault list/AmLaw list ... they are all rougly the same and the point remains that those lower down any of those lists will not be able to sustain their "unnatural" presence (to use 6.50's terminology) in the top payscale forever. New York - and the US - has created a weird environment for lawyers and lawfirms that will not last to the end of time, as fun as it is to be the subject of this tug-o-war by the firms (I agree with 6.58 here from a purely selfish perspective). You sound angry 7.11, as though your girlfriend has denied you sex for the past two weeks.
6:40:
Significant differences in associate bonus compensation between the NY market and the other markets has been one of Sidley's hallmarks over the past half-decade. Its possible that the transperency ATL provides might help bridge the gap. however, I'd be willing to bet that the gap remains, and it will continue to be significant. I'm praying the firm proves me wrong, but I don't expect those prayers to be answered.
NYC Bonus List of Shame
2008 Vault Rank / Firm / 2006 RPL
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8 Latham & Watkins LLP / $920,000
9
10 Covington & Burling LLP
* 11 Kirkland & Ellis LLP / $1,035,000(Punted)
12
13
14
15 Wilmer Cutler / $890,000
16 Williams & Connolly LLP / $955,000
17 Sidley Austin LLP
18 Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP / $1,050,000
19 O'Melveny & Myers LLP
20
21 Arnold & Porter LLP / $855,000
22 Jones Day
23 Morrison & Foerster LLP
24
25
26 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft / $1,000,000
27 Hogan & Hartson LLP
28 Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP
29
30 Ropes & Gray LLP / $855,000
31 Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker
32
33 Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP / $840,000
34 Winston & Strawn LLP
35
36 Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati
37 Linklaters
38 Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe
39 Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer LLP
40 Proskauer Rose LLP
41. King and Spalding
42. Morgan, Lewis & Bockius
43.
44. Baker & McKenzie
45. Baker Botts LLP
46. Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP / $980,000
47. Munger, Tolles & Olson LLP / $1,025,000
48. Dechert LLP
49. Irell & Manella LLP / $1,050,000
50. McDermott, Will & Emery / $875,000
51. Jenner & Block LLP
52.
53. Allen & Overy LLP
54. DLA Piper
55.
56. Fish & Richardson P.C.
57. Fulbright & Jaworski LLP
58. Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP
59. Goodwin Procter LLP
60. Cooley Godward LLP
...
67. (Kaye Scholer Matched w/ Performance Reqs.)
NR. McKee Nelson (Failed to Match)
BONUS STATUS BY 2006 RPL
Rank 2006 in revenue
by revenue Revenue per lawyer
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Wachtell ABOVE MARKET $2,455,000 2.5%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Sullivan & Cromwell MARKET & ABOVE MARKET FOR SENIOR ASSOC. $1,565,000 1.3%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 Wiley Rein $1,520,000 162.1%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 Cravath MARKET $1,355,000 5.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 Davis Polk MARKET $1,200,000 4.8%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 Simpson Thacher-MARKET $1,200,000 6.7%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7 McKee Nelson BELOW MARKET $1,190,000 1.7%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8 Milbank, Tweed MARKET $1,110,000 10.4%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9 Skadden MARKET $1,095,000 10.1%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10 Cahill Gordon MARKET $1,075,000 8.6%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11 Fragomen, Del Rey $1,070,000 26.6%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12 Gibson, Dunn $1,050,000 4.0%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12 Irell & Manella $1,050,000 9.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
14 Kirkland & Ellis PUNTED $1,035,000 5.1%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
14 Paul, Weiss MARKET $1,035,000 0.5%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
16 Munger, Tolles $1,025,000 18.5%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
17 Quinn Emanuel $1,020,000 28.3% SLIGHTLY ABOVE MARKET BUT PARTIALLY DEFERRED
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
18 Shearman & Sterling MARKET $1,010,000 2.0%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
19 Debevoise & Plimpton MARKET $1,005,000 8.6%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20 Cadwalader BONUS ANNOUNCED, NO $ FIGURES $1,000,000 6.4%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
21 Boies, Schiller $980,000 3.2%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
21 Weil, Gotshal MARKET $980,000 2.6%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
23 Cleary Gottlieb MARKET $975,000 7.1%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
24 Willkie Farr MARKET $970,000 12.8%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25 Williams & Connolly $955,000 2.7%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
26 Finnegan, Henderson $945,000 11.2%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
27 Townsend and Townsend $940,000 6.2%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
28 Fried, Frank $930,000 MARKET 4.5%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
29 Schulte Roth $925,000 6.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
30 Latham & Watkins $920,000 5.1%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
31 Wilmer Cutler $890,000 5.3%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
32 McDermott Will $875,000 12.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
33 Kaye Scholer MARKET WITH POSSIBILITY OF MORE & PERF. REQS. $865,000 7.5%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
34 Arnold & Porter $855,000 4.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
34 Ropes & Gray $855,000 1.8%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
36 Choate, Hall $850,000 10.4%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
36 Kramer Levin $850,000 6.3%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
38 Heller Ehrman $845,000 5.0%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
39 Akin Gump $840,000 7.7%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
40 Hughes Hubbard $835,000 12.1%
Not listed: Dewey (Market with hours requirement)
Clifford Chance (Market)
White & Case (Market)
Bonus List of Shame
by NY Attorneys (Source: Crains)
1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)Sidley Austin
10) Proskauer
11)
12)
13)
14)
15) Schulte
16) Wilson Elser
17)
18)
19) Latham & Watkins
20)
210
22)
23) Kramer Levin
24)
25) Greenberg Taurig
7:36: When the cost of living in Chicago and other Sidley office cities rises to anywhere near the cost of living in New York, then Sidley can pay associates in those cities New York-level bonuses. Until then, stop complaining!
I have no idea why people bring up the cost of living argument. Law firm salaries/bonuses are not social programs. They aren't based upon what you deserve, cost of living differences across cities, how many hours you bill, etc.
They're based on the market. Period. What can they get away with--that's all. NYC has larger, richer clients that pay more for their legal services. The firms need to attract a certain number of associates to NYC to fill that void. Period. In most circumstances, NYC offices bill at a higher rate than non-NYC offices. So it's not surprising that salaries track that. For some firms (like those NYC firms with satellite offices), their associates bill at the same NYC rates in non-NYC offices and shockingly are afforded the benefits of a NYC salary. It has nothing to do with QOL, cost of living, amount of hours billed, unless it correllates with the legal market in that area/city and the revenues generated as a result.
Think Ayn Rand not Karl Marx.
8:05 - Do you know the cost of living in Dallas? Do you know how expensive it is downtown??? We deserve to get paid the same amount as NY office if not more.
8:05:
Is the "special bonus" a cost of living bonus?
Haven't seen anything to that effect.
In fact, that would be an odd justification given the class by class escalation.
Yes, NY is expensive, Chicago less so, LA and DC, however, are not cheap.
To the extent Sidley attempts to justify lack of special bonuses on a cost of living basis, I think many associates outside of NY will think "Bulls__t!" (otherwise, shouldn't the firm compensate all associates in markets other than the market with the lowest cost of living (Dallas?) with a "special bonus"?)
However, most associates outside of NY won't be too upset, after all, for anyone who has been with Sidley for more than a few years its just par for the course.
I, for one, won't be surprised by any bonus compensation scheme other than one which treats all associates equally.
Any word on when PH is going to announce?
8:17 - It would have been funny if you'd followed the conclusion of every sentence with "Period."
You got off to a promising start but then lost your focus.
8:17, that's great and all. But associate salaries, particularly at lower levels, are only tangentially related to the rates that firms charge. They're more related to the market for top level associates between other law firms. And that market waxes on wanes on rational decisions by the associates that enter it, including the inflationary and deflationary effects of C.O.L. on the salaries they will earn.
4:49 - obviously a 2L who has either accepted a SA position or will accept. Why that person would think that random posters on ATL would know this information ahead of time, I have no idea...
Where the fuck Lat already? S&C just raised to 190 and there hasn't been any post on ATL since 3:30???
Am I reading their memo correctly? For example, for the Class of 2006, the range of bonus will be 35k - 45k when they hit their hours. It seems the discretion is between 35k and 45k.
IN ADDITION, NY associates (for class of '06) will pay a one-time discretionary bonus.
Are they saying a bonus for class of 2006 associate who hit their hours in NY could range anywhere from 35k - 55k? If so, isn't that potentially above market for those receiving the "discretionary" bonus?
How is the FF bonus "market"?
Being a biglaw associate makes me want to kill myself. Every day.
@8:56, Yes, it is. Past experience @ Kaye has shown that the difference in the initial 35k and 45k is whether the associate hits 2,000 or 2,400 hours.
It seems likely than that the 10k will be more discretionary and not as hours based.
8.49 - stop bullshitting or show us the memo in the comments
On the whole lock-step/hours requirement bonus question, what about less busy but important areas like Tax?
I feel like a majority corporate transactions are structured specifically for tax efficiency. While this work doesn't require as many hours as diligence and the like, its clearly critical to a firm's corporate practice. Should firms pay these people less because their practice, while critical, isn't time-consuming? Or is the argument that they're rewarded with better QOL, so they shouldn't get the same bonus as a diligence monkey?
Sorry 9:09, but you're off the mark. I'm a tax lawyer at big law and I bill my arse off.
Yes, 9:09, the argument is that you are rewarded with better QOL. I don't know why anyone thinks that's unfair or hard to understand. Despite the money-lust on this site, surveys of associates consistently show that the great majority would prefer a slightly lower salary with lower hours. Basing bonus to some extent on hours allows this to happen. To the extent you're not in a busy group where there's no way you can bill under 2400, this is just a free market. Work as many hours as it's worth it to you to work. If a tax practice doesn't provide that, think of switching.
Timberlake - 4200 hours on the year?!!!
HAHAHAHAAH
I billed 800 hours last January. I had 2000 hours by March 15.
WACHTELL RULES!!!!!
8:59 -- then quit, you moron.
LAST!!!
Anyone know bonuses at Littler?
When is Simpson matching?
Simpson is waiting for Paul Weiss and Skadden to make a move. Then the floodgates will really open!!!!
Simpson already matched you morons. Way back last week on Halloween. They were the second or third firm out of the gate. Skadden already announced as well. PW matched in that first group too (with Simpson and Debevoise).
What about DC? Covington, Hogan, Wilmer? This is getting ridiculous. DC associates work just as much as NY attorneys, at least the corporate associates do.
the fact that law students base their decision on Vault rankings makes them important to firms. It's a recruiting tool.
Jones Day outside of NYC does not pay bonuses. Law students: Know what I did not! Know that you will be making $$$ less if you go to Jones Day!!!!
Law students remember these firms. It's not that they are in the V100, but they are second tier - the bottom half of the V100.
If they do not pay a special bonus in a year with bumper earnings, what guaranty do you have that 5-10 years from now they will bother pay you a bonus at all.
Remember them and remember who pays the special bonus.
50
Jenner & Block LLP
52
5.875
Chicago, IL
51
Vinson & Elkins L.L.P.
56
5.785
Houston, TX
52
Cooley Godward LLP
50
5.761
Palo Alto, CA
53
LeBoeuf, Lamb, Greene & MacRae LLP
51
5.759
New York, NY
54
Goodwin Procter LLP
63
5.743
Boston, MA
55
Dechert LLP
60
5.729
Philadelphia, PA
56
Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP
47
5.714
New York, NY
57
Alston & Bird LLP
57
5.689
Atlanta, GA
58
Irell & Manella LLP
53
5.688
Los Angeles, CA
59
Heller Ehrman LLP
54
5.681
San Francisco, CA
60
Allen & Overy LLP
59
5.624
London, UK
61
Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal LLP
58
5.610
Chicago, IL
62
Fish & Richardson P.C.
75
5.583
Boston, MA
63
Holland & Knight LLP
64
5.578
Tampa, FL
64
Kaye Scholer LLP
55
5.574
New York, NY
65
DLA Piper Rudnick Gray Cary US LLP
78 (GC) 69 (PR)
5.511
Chicago/DC
66
Foley & Lardner LLP
71
5.488
Milwaukee, WI
67
Bingham McCutchen LLP
70
5.472
Boston, MA
68
Steptoe & Johnson LLP
65
5.464
Washington, DC
69
Howrey LLP
66
5.370
Washington, DC
70
Hunton & Williams LLP
68
5.367
Richmond, VA
71
Greenberg Traurig, LLP
77
5.364
Miami, FL
72
Chadbourne & Parke LLP
62
5.322
New York, NY
73
Coudert Brothers LLP
67
5.318
New York, NY
74
Patton Boggs LLP
73
5.264
Washington, DC
75
Perkins Coie LLP
72
5.23
Seattle, WA
76
Bryan Cave LLP
80
5.075
St. Louis, MO
77
Stroock & Stroock & Lavan LLP
76
5.013
New York, NY
78
Crowell & Moring LLP
83
4.977
Washington, DC
79
Kirkpatrick & Lockhart Nicholson Graham LLP
74
4.966
Pittsburgh, PA
80
Nixon Peabody LLP
87
4.949
Boston, MA
81
Dorsey & Whitney LLP
84
4.937
Minneapolis, MN
82
Schulte Roth & Zabel LLP
79
4.931
New York, NY
83
Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP
93
4.818
Chicago, IL
84
McGuireWoods LLP
94
4.804
Richmond, VA
85
Finnegan, Henderson, Farabow, Garrett & Dunner, LLP
89
4.795
Washington, DC
86
Reed Smith
99
4.790
Pittsburgh, PA
87
Thelen Reid & Priest LLP
90
4.782
New York, NY
88
Fenwick & West LLP
85
4.766
Mountain View, CA
89
Kilpatrick Stockton LLP
NR
4.701
Atlanta, GA
90
Hughes Hubbard & Reed LLP
86
4.678
New York, NY
91
Squire, Sanders & Dempsey, L.L.P.
97
4.652
Cleveland, OH
92
Mintz, Levin, Cohn, Ferris, Glovsky and Popeo, P.C.
92
4.648
Boston, MA
93
Arent Fox PLLC
98
4.606
Washington, DC
94
Kelley Drye & Warren LLP
91
4.601
New York, NY
95
Baker & Hostetler, LLP
81
4.595
Cleveland, OH
96
Choate, Hall & Stewart LLP
95
4.577
Boston, MA
97
Preston Gates & Ellis LLP
100
4.574
Seattle, WA
98
Troutman Sanders, LLP
NR
4.548
Atlanta, GA
99
Sutherland Asbill & Brennan LLP
NR
4.506
Atlanta, GA
100
Venable LLP
NR
4.504
Washington, DC
as soon as i get my bonus, whatever it is, i'm running out to buy some gogol bordello albums.
12:10 am- Right, but it's not just those firms. What about Latham, Covington, Wilmer, Gibson, Hogan, O'Melveny... firms based in CA and DC are cheap, cheap, cheap. Go to NY... you'll get the plum work, the prestige and get paid a lot more.
Atlanta to ....
ahh forget it.
YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME. LATHAM PPP IS $1,855,000 AND THEY DEEM EACH OF THEIR OFFICES TO BE IN DIFFERENT MARKETS FOR SALARY AND BONUS PURPOSES AND PLAY HIDE THE BALL WITH CLERKSHIP BONUSES?
ONE GLOBAL FIRM UNTIL IT COMES TO COMPENSATION.
THERE IS NOTHING V10 ABOUT THIS FIRM.
4:03 = (c) infringement
LAST
Lastest of them all.
12:10 - that list is a bit dated. Plus, some of the firms in it have matched. As shocking as it may be, Vault isn't the end all in determining the quality of a firm.
Why do law students care about the vault? Is it a dearth of information on firms or are they just prestige=whores? I think its has to be the second, given the financials that are available on firms from AmLaw, etc.
As far as I can tell, the vault guide is useful for the anecdotes and the descriptions, but the rankings are essentially meaningless, when compared with financial and league tables.
I follow vault through space and time...
1:22 study harder. Called fair use.
Today is the day Chicago announces... nothing.
10:46 last night -- ummmm, ever heard of sarcasm moron?
What about D.C. Offices of Chicago firms (Jenner, McDermott, Sidley, Mayer, etc.) ???
9:05,
Word on the street:
(1) The Chicago firms you listed (Jenner, McDermott, Sidley, Mayer Brown) will each follow Kirkland.
(2) To remain competative in Chicago and continue to look like a market leader in other markets (e.g., D.C.), Kirkland will match the NY market.
(3) These Chicago firms generally will provide market bonus (lockstep or otherwise) and announce a special bonus.
9:12 What word on the street? Where the streets have no name? I don't buy it.
1. Chicago firms will each follow Kirkland when it comes to salaries. Bonuses are not the same story.
2. Kirkland will likely match in NY, DC, Chicago, etc.
3. Other Chicago firms will follow but only in NYC. It's a shame, because these firms' best associates are in their home bases.
Now that bonuses are more transparent, I predict you'll see more movement from traditional Chicago powerhouses to satellite offices of matching national firms in Chicago (where, believe it or not, it's easier to get jobs than in big Chicago T5 firms).
WORD ON THE STREET =
9:12 -- correct (at least I hope s/he is)!
9:40 -- idiot
9:45 lol you're all idiots. Chicago to 190!
8:47--
that's a script, and not offered w/ any commentary. definitly NOT fair use.
go back to law school.
10:04, you idiot. I'd never hire you as my attorney.
You: Your honor, this commenter on the "post a comment" section of a blog reproduced a portion of my client's script! No express commentary saying anything afterwards! Classic copyright violation!!
Judge: Did he post the entire script?
You: Uhh, no.
Judge: Did he post for a commercial profit purpose?
You: Uhh, no.
Judge: Did he post the entire script?
You: Uhh, no.
Judge: Did his posting hurt the resale value of the script?
You: Uhh, no. Maybe even help a little by publicizing it.
Judge: You moron. Stop wasting my time!
Do we expect several firms to get in the game today or what?
No. Everyone's waiting to see what Venable will do.
Chicago firms need to match NY market market in Chicago. RPL is good, PPP is up, profits are up.
11:14, agreed. It's demoralizing to know that your colleagues in NY get a special bonus while you do not.
Sidley likes to say that the Chicago office is "NY counsel" to certain clients, and thus won't let us bill for travel time out to NY for those clients - so, if we're "NY counsel" we should be paid the same as NY!
8:29 (1), I assume you are joking... I know the cost of living in Dallas (even downtown) and in NYC and it's not even in the same ballpark.
Kaye's special bonus was entirely tied to hours, you had to hit 2200 hours, which is not market. embarrassing