first second!

I'm hungry. Can't wait for lunch. Ugh, I'd kill for a sandwich right now.

a-rod to $350 million!

11:07 - Hold off, you can do it. think about how good it will be once you make it. Eating lunch early will only make the second half of your day excruciatingly long. Also, you'll probably have to eat again around 3. Just wait it out man, trust me, you'll be glad you did.

!!!!!!!!!!!tsriF

diversity rules!

This is really interesting - tell me more about the sandwich.

NY to Rainbow bumper stickers!

Setting up a LGBT network is a good idea - not necessarily for purposes of diversity, but because networks of any kind are good for business development.

On a separate note, the claim that clients are pushing for increased diversity irks me. Why should clients care about the ethnic background, gender, or sexual orientation of their attorneys? They should choose their attorneys strictly on merit. When you're in litigation or engaging in a transaction, you want the best possible legal advice – that’s the point of retaining an attorney. Clients bragging of how "diverse" their outside law firms are reeks of tokenism.

the question is what firms do not yet have a group like this. i thought all big firms had already done this.

11:20

I'm thinking I will hit up a nearby deli for a turkey sandwich with deli mustard, mayo, lettuce tomato, american cheese, maybe a little oil and vinegar on a hard roll. F it, maybe I'll even kick it up to a sub roll: I'm pretty hungry!

just wanted to add i'm a big fan of the mayo AND mustard order. little surprising how a lot of people tend to order only one of these

11:26-

I think the emphasis is not on "tokenism," but rather that diversity of backgrounds leads to diversity of thought. Such steps avoid "group think," where the same bunch of people sit around the same table, looking across at carbon copies of each other, and come up with the same ideas over and over again.

Plus LGBT folks are pretty cool.

Starving Guy:

I'm tied up on a conference call. Could you do me a big favor and pick me up a roast beef (the rarer the better) with mustard, lettuce, onions, and oil and vinegar on a sub roll? I have cash in hand to pay you back, but, like I said, I'm stuck here at my desk.

Thanks, buddy. I owe you one.

Mustard Mayo Mix: You GOT to!

"On a separate note, the claim that clients are pushing for increased diversity irks me. Why should clients care about the ethnic background, gender, or sexual orientation of their attorneys? They should choose their attorneys strictly on merit."

And if someone who thinks differently from the standard-issue white guy partner comes up with a winning solution, that isn't merit? Clients want a legal team that looks more like their own workforce, not the typical law firm's. If they're a big global firm like Pepsi, they need lawyers who understand Latino culture, for example, because they have lots and lots of those customers. DUH.

Oh, and then there's those pesky anti-discrimination laws they're somewhat keen to avoid getting sued over.

"On a separate note, the claim that clients are pushing for increased diversity irks me. Why should clients care about the ethnic background, gender, or sexual orientation of their attorneys? They should choose their attorneys strictly on merit."

And if someone who thinks differently from the standard-issue white guy partner comes up with a winning solution, that isn't merit? Clients want a legal team that looks more like their own workforce, not the typical law firm's. If they're a big global firm like Pepsi, they need lawyers who understand Latino culture, for example, because they have lots and lots of those customers. DUH.

Oh, and then there's those pesky anti-discrimination laws they're somewhat keen to avoid getting sued over.

mayo and ketchup?

For the record, in NY, Mayo has no place on any sandwich other than tuna or egg salad. Maybe on a baloney sandwich.

11:38, my argument is less about the hiring practices of law firms that it's about clients smugly touting the fact that their lawyers are "soooo diverse!"

I've heard the all the arguments about "diversity" leading to diversity of thought; I don't buy it. Lawyers are lawyers, regardless of their ethnic background, gender or sexual orientation. Having attorneys who are not hetrosexual white males seems like a dubious way of countering "group think". On the other hand, retaining the best lawyers - regardless of their ethnic background, gender or sexual orientation - seems like a good policy.

On a lighter note, there are several gay male attorneys at my firm who are quite fashion-forward and wear clothes that are rather dandyish and just on the right side of tastefull. This is of great benifit to me, as it takes the heat off of me for my own WASPy preference for bright colors.

"I've heard the all the arguments about "diversity" leading to diversity of thought; I don't buy it."

Posted by: 11:26 | November 8, 2007 12:02 PM
__________________________________

Actually, you're a good example of why the theory is quite valid, though you don't even realize why you illustrate it so well. Indeed, your cluelessness only further strengthens the argument for the value of diverse people producing diverse thought.

I hate mayo.

Yeah, I don't get it. Just 'cos I suck dick doesn't mean that I'm gonna look at your breach of contract claim any differently from someone who prefers chicks. That deal term is gonna be good for my client or it's not, and my evaluation of that isn't dependent on my rapier wit, snappy lines, and gay fashion sense.

It might make a difference of "perspective" for purely internal things (per 11:26) but other than that, what's the point?

Are these companies seriously contending that their leadership is really diverse? That is such crap.

new york delis have diverse sandwich toppings.

I ate. Feel better now, if not a bit groggy. Going to need to hit up some coffee perhaps.

Just as an FYI: I ended up going roast beef after Where's the Beef? put that thought in my head.

Also, to chime in on the condiment discussion: Dear 11:57 and 12:20 - I like mayo, and if new york delis object to my passion for the mayo-mustard mix, they can suck it.

11:49 - I believe you're referring to "French Dressing" although I might be wrong.

Anyway, Russian and french dressing and condiments of that ilk have no place in my life except for the occasional corned beef sandwich on rye with pastrami and swiss.

SHIT! I meant corned beef with coleslaw, russian and swiss on rye - not pastrami. My bad!

They are only just setting this up?? Good lord. My firm has had one since the mid-90's.

Actually, a corned beef sandwich with pastrami on it sounds pretty good.

Isn't this all just a pyramid scheme backed by threats from vocal minority political groups?

So law firms seek "diversity" in order to appease clients who themselves are seeking diversity. Ok. Got it. Makes sense.

But why are clients seeking diversity? I don't buy the "my employees want it" argument. If that was true, data entry clerks would make $500k a year.

It only matters to clients because of the threat of retaliation by vocally political minority groups. The whole thing is built on the need to avoid being threatened by political groups on the left who otherwise don't really contribute anything positive. Just the threat of economic devastation if you don't listen to them. You don't cow-tow to the throne of diversity? We run horrible ads and start boycotting your products.

The whole thing is a Potemkin village.

Once-Starving Guy:

We keep Mayo behind the deli counter for profiling purposes . . .

once-starving: mayo and ketchup can now be purchased together as "mayo ketchup" at a diverse internets grocer called el colmadito.com -- according to the site, mayo ketchup esta utilizado especialmente para sorrullos.

also: last?

i don't feel like going back to look at the time stamp of the dude who said that mayo has no place on new york sandwiches, but in any event that's retarded.

i also would like to discuss what the proper toppings for a hot dog are, but i can't do this when i'm not hungry. hopefully somebody will start a debate about this during tomorrow's lunch.

I completely support a law firm that hires gays who eat sandwiches with mayo and mustard so long as everyone knows that their dietary preferences were chosen by their own free will and weren't hereditary. Go Clifford Chance!

Mayo + Ketchup = russian dressing
Mayo + Ketchup + relish = 1000 Island

As far as hot dogs go, if you are over the age of 12, anything but ketchup. In my view, a dog gets deli mustard and kraut.

I am a senior associate at Clifford Chance in New York, and I sit on the Diversity Committee for the Americas and chair the LGBT Employees Group here. I wanted to clarify that we have a very active Diversity Committee here in the US and that the committee has been around for several years. Our LGBT Employees Group is also very active and includes all employees of the Firm (not just lawyers), which I understand is unique in NY. Among other things, we organized a Firm-sponsored event in celebration of Gay Pride Month, and the event was open to (and publicized among) all of our employees and clients. In fact, the Firm has always been eager to support all of the causes and events we have proposed.

The general attitude in the London market regarding diversity committees and minority group networks has been evolving to come into line with what is standard in the US. It is an unfortunate coincidence that the launch of the LGBT network in London happened soon after the claim, but I can assure everyone that I have been discussing setting up an LGBT network with the London office for quite some time, significantly prior to Bryceland's claim.

Why does Clifford Chance (London) hate the gays?

Any client who isn't happy about a law firm because it isn't gay enough should be told to find another law firm.

I want to know how you can ask your employees whether or not they are gay in order to produce diversity statistics. And how can a client check it?

ctd, my firm's recruiter called me during NALP time and asked if any of its categories applied to me.

The clients who've elected to check have done so by purchasing escorts and having them report back. The clients offered to check personally, but I didn't want to run the risk of an ethics violation.

As someone who works in BigLaw Business Development, I can honestly say that clients and potential clients actually DO care about the diversity of the team that is presented to them. In RFPs (and I coordinated the firm's JPMorgan response, so I know exactly what CC is referring to) and pitch meetings, clients/potential clients routinely ask difficult and probing questions about the diversity of the team, the firm, and what the firm does to promote diversity efforts. As corporate America becomes more diverse-- in race, gender, sexual orientation-- the more pressure is placed on firms to reflect the communities, companies and clients that they serve.

While it would be lovely to think that merit is the only thing that should matter, it's simply not the way that your clients are thinking. The more resistance attorneys display towards presenting a diverse workforce, the more truly difficult questions will come their way-- and you can take that as gospel from someone who is on the front lines of BigLaw BizDev.

The move is possitive for gay clients with domestic matters (cohab, maintenance). They feel more comfortable discussion their personal lives with a lawyer who understands them. Clients sometimes feel that they being judged by hetrosexual lawyers.

Gay clients also prefer gay lawyers to handle probate & estate planning.