Hogan & Hartson to... Two Extra Days Off!
Late last month, we posted what appeared to be a White & Case memo, concerning requests for vacation during the Christmas week this year. There was some debate in the comments about the memo's authenticity and/or how widely it was distributed (e.g., maybe it was just for the M&A group). But the gist of the memo, which shouldn't be that shocking, is that everybody wants that week off -- so if you were hoping to take vacation that week, you might want to rethink your plans.
Down in D.C., Hogan & Hartson apparently has a much more generous holiday policy. They just announced that, since Christmas and New Year's Day fall on Tuesdays this year, the firm will be closed on both of the preceding Mondays: December 24 and December 31. The firm characterizes these office closings as "an expression of thanks for the dedication and hard work of our lawyers and staff this past year."
But are associates happy about this news? In some quarters, it's being viewed cynically:
We have been fighting with H&H regarding decent bonuses this year, especially given their usual disgraceful examples of bonuses. This seems to be their way of bonusing us (without actually paying). Give us more days off, so it is more difficult to make your minimum hours the next year. The partners are tight and don't seem to want to pay any form of market or even reasonable bonuses despite unprecedented productivity and billing rates this last fiscal year.
For those of you who are curious, the Hogan & Hartson memo appears after the jump.
Earlier: Making the Case for a White Christmas at Biglaw
HOGAN & HARTSON -- MEMORANDUM RE: CHRISTMAS AND NEW YEARS' CLOSING
M E M O R A N D U M
November 9, 2007
TO: All Personnel – All U.S. Offices
FROM: The Executive Committee
RE: Christmas and New Years' Closing
As you know, Christmas Day, December 25 and New Years' Day, January 1 fall on Tuesdays this year. As an expression of thanks for the dedication and hard work of our lawyers and staff this past year, we have decided to extend the two holidays by closing on Monday, December 24 and Monday, December 31. A memo will be circulated in a few weeks regarding the limited services to be provided.
Thank you for your efforts and enjoy your long weekends!
[Ed. note: Long weekend? Are that many people really getting off for Veterans Day? No disrespect to veterans -- just wondering.]
(63) Comments
FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Noone should have trouble meeting minimum hours because of two vacation days.
Do "days off" really mean anything to associates? If you have work to do, you have to be there doing it, regardless of whether the firm is "open" or not. If you don't, you could have taken the day off anyway without anyone really caring.
Lat - I think the "long weekends" reference (with an "s" on the end) was meant to refer to the long Christmas and New Year's weekends the memo described, and not a long weekend THIS weekend due to Veteran's Day. But, another valiant attempt to mock others.
Lat - It said "long weekendS" referring to the long Christmas and New Years weekends now that thye have off Monday as well.
Hogan's cheap reputation has been well known for a while. I have no pity for the associates working there for no bonus. Since when has Hogan been paying market bonus?
agree with 12:16 - if an associate is that concerned with minimum hours AND has work to do, then I don't think any partner is going to complain if that associate is doing work and billing when the office is close. Hell, I would rather be at the office when it is closed, I get way more accomplished!
Yes, the days off mean something to H&H Associates -- we'll be stuck in the office without support staff. If we have stuff to do, we'll be here.
No word on bonuses, but we now get to do take on the admin functions as well.
For the record, White & Case is closed on those days as well, and always is.
H&H associates complaining about this---unbelievable.
btw, in nyc big firms i thought this was just part of the normal holiday schedule, not some extra special "bonus" holiday.
the annoying thing for H&H is they just learned about this now, when we have known since they published the holiday schedule early this year.
where is schulte?
Yes, the days off mean something to H&H Associates -- we'll be stuck in the office without support staff. If we have stuff to do, we'll be here.
No word on bonuses, but we now get to do take on the admin functions as well.
I was under the impression that Dec. 24 is typically a holiday when it falls on a weekday. Am I wrong?
I even think in the W&C situation, everyone had Dec. 24 & 25 off.
Yes, the days off mean something to H&H Associates -- we'll be stuck in the office without support staff. If we have stuff to do, we'll be here.
No word on bonuses, but we now get to do take on the admin functions as well.
When the hell are the top 10 firms jumping to $190K base pay? Screw bonuses, base salary pays the mortgage!
Apparently H&H DOES know how to send firm-wide memos?
Where is the bonus memo?
12:22 - come on, like you really can't get by for a day without a secretary.
Apparently H&H DOES know how to send firm-wide memos?
Where is the bonus memo?
NY to 190
NY to 190
H&H used to give staff every government holiday off - not sure whether that's still the case, but it was more generous than a lot of places.
Are you serious? People bitching because they don't get to work on Christmas Eve? Your tipster ought to lateral to Scrooge & Associates, LLP .
Days off in a law firm is a joke. If you want to give me a day off, reduce my billable hours requirement by 8 hours!
The List of Shame on bonus announcements is very thin for firms with a Vault Ranking as high or higher than Hogan's:
2008 Vault Rank / Firm / 2005 RPL (if known)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8 Latham & Watkins LLP / $875,000
* 9 Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP / $954,000 (rumored to have matched)
10 Covington & Burling LLP / $774,000
* 11 Kirkland & Ellis LLP / $987,000 (Punted)
12
13
14
15 WilmerHale / 846,000
16 Williams & Connolly LLP /
17 Sidley Austin LLP / $774,000
18 Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP / $1,011,000
19 O'Melveny & Myers LLP / $828,000
20
21 Arnold & Porter LLP / $816,000
22 Jones Day / 602,000
23 Morrison & Foerster LLP / $735,000
24
25
* 26 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft / $940,000 (Rumored to have matched)
27 Hogan & Hartson LLP / $735,000
28 Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP / $750,000
29
30 Ropes & Gray LLP / 841,000
31 Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker / $766,000
32
33 Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP / $779,000
34 Winston & Strawn LLP / $718,000
35
36 Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati / $752,000
37 Linklaters /
38 Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe / 767,000
39 Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer LLP /
40 Proskauer Rose LLP / $745,000
...
...
43. (Quinn Matched)
55. (Cahill Matched)
67. (Kaye Scholer Matched)
NR. McKee Nelson (Failed to Match)
The List of Shame on bonus announcements is very thin for firms with a Vault Ranking as high or higher than Hogan's:
2008 Vault Rank / Firm / 2005 RPL (if known)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8 Latham & Watkins LLP / $875,000
* 9 Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP / $954,000 (rumored to have matched)
10 Covington & Burling LLP / $774,000
* 11 Kirkland & Ellis LLP / $987,000 (Punted)
12
13
14
15 WilmerHale / 846,000
16 Williams & Connolly LLP /
17 Sidley Austin LLP / $774,000
18 Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP / $1,011,000
19 O'Melveny & Myers LLP / $828,000
20
21 Arnold & Porter LLP / $816,000
22 Jones Day / 602,000
23 Morrison & Foerster LLP / $735,000
24
25
* 26 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft / $940,000 (Rumored to have matched)
27 Hogan & Hartson LLP / $735,000
28 Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP / $750,000
29
30 Ropes & Gray LLP / 841,000
31 Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker / $766,000
32
33 Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP / $779,000
34 Winston & Strawn LLP / $718,000
35
36 Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati / $752,000
37 Linklaters /
38 Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe / 767,000
39 Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer LLP /
40 Proskauer Rose LLP / $745,000
...
...
43. (Quinn Matched)
55. (Cahill Matched)
67. (Kaye Scholer Matched)
NR. McKee Nelson (Failed to Match)
So much for the fucker who said once White & Case matches everyone else will. Dumb prediction, dicklick.
That firm is a hole.
Why do you keep saying "rumored" for Weil? The firm totally matched. Try to keep up.
Um, Lat, a lot of firms are closed on those two days as a matter of course when they fall on a Monday or Friday. This isn't news, it is low grade crap filler. I'd rather read more nonsense about Evan Cline and Dean Jackasslet than this "news." You can do better - exercise some self-control and skip this type of stupidity.
Gallion OUT!
If W& C is a hole, then Arnold & Porter, Jones Day, Morrison & Foerster, and Cadwalader must really be shit holes. Those bastards haven't even blinked. LOL.
I'm sorry that you didn't get a callback at White & Case 1:05. Maybe after your firm's layoffs they can reject you again.
If a batch of firms don't match today, the rest of the market is in trouble. Happy fucking holidays, signed The Firm that Fucked you Over
LMAO @ 1:09. Actually, whistledick, I left that dump after working there for 5 years as an associate. Life is much better now.
Ha, 1:13, seems like if like was so much better you wouldn't be so obnoxiously bitter. Hope that dead-end in-house job is working out.
Can't wait for BigLaw. Do I get to cry when my firm doesn't give me free money the second other people get theirs? I think you can get through the holidays with a 65K bonus.
It's also going to be extremely hard to make up 8 hours.
I thought pre-schoolers whined a lot...
1:35p - wait until you bill 2400 hours and more and are up all night for weeks on end. you will complain about not getting paid like the associates across the street at the "death star" working close to or less than you.
My name is "Anon" and I am clearly a douche.
yo have you guys ever read Deal Breaker? tried reading it a little today. posts are probably as cool as ATL's, but the comments sections suck. big time.
Uh, this does NOTHING for associates. This only helps staff, which, okay, that's nice, good for them -- but how the fuck does this make up for no bonuses? So now when associates have to come in on Christmas Eve so they don't fall behind on their billing, there won't even be people around with cheery baked goods to take the edge off the misery.
I get everyday off, ya'll! Just like JT!
Can someone from H&H give some information on what the firm's bonus/bonus structure actually looks like? "Disgraceful" is not terribly informative.
2:07, are you telling me that dealbreaker doesn't have genius comments like "WGWAG," "FIRST!" and "NY to 190 bitchezz!!!!" I pity them.
WHY IS THERE NEVER ANY RESPONSE ABOUT HOGAN BONUSES?
3:05, it is a murky thing. No tells anyone about what they got. I think eveyone thinks they are the only one with a small bonus and therefore the firm doesn't value them - they don't want to admit this to their colleagues. I think AMLAW has a bonus comparison chart somewhere for DC firms - you should search for it, maybe you will find "disgraceful" there.
No firms going to match today? We r fukt.
If you are so unsatisfied with the bonus (or lack of) at H&H leave! If you are so tired of the partners getting fat off your work, start your own firm and make some rain.
I am currently looking for work (along with a lot of the other 150K new attorneys) and we will be more than happy to replace you, probably for even less money!
7:24 --
You're not qualified to replace us -- that's why you're still looking for work, and that's why we can demand the compensation we speak of in this string.
3:56 is right. Hogan doesn't really pay anything. Theoretically, the bonus is a "range" anywhere from $5,000 to $60,000 (lower range or first years, up to $60,000 for seniors). Most people don't get a dime. If you kill yourself (3000 hours), you'll get $60,000, but only 3 people got the higher range bonus last year-- 2 of whom are married to each other.
the hogan bonus is discretionary, right? does it vary much person to person or practice to practice? it seems like everyone gets low-balled. the amlaw midlevels survey indicated third year bonus was 15k, 4th years 22k, and 5th years 15k...
9:24 - "Most people don't get a dime." That was not true of my class last year at Hogan. Most first years got between 10-15K, and the associates that work for Warren got more. They don't pay huge bonuses, true, but I did not hear of a single associate (who made her hours) that did not get a bonus of some sort.
Hogan's NY office pays market bonuses if you hit 2000 hours. Below that it's discretionary. Don't know about DC or other offices.
I hope like hell this year's memo isn't like that of years past...
Dear Associates,
We have decided to screw you yet again this year. Thank you for your hard work and dedication, but we felt it was in our best interests to keep your bonus money for ourselves.
Signed,
The Management
NYHogan: please define "market." What range was your bonus in last year? 20s? 30s?
Market meaning NY market:
1st years 35K, 2nd 40K, 3rd 45K, 4th 50K, etc.
Really? If this is true, they should announce it immediately to counteract all the bad rumors... as a 2L considering a summer offer, it would make me feel better about the firm. I certainly have V10 offers, but I really liked the people I met at Hogan.
How do you like it there?
Hogan NY is a great place to be, and if you want confirmation re bonuses, just ask anyone you interviewed with--it's a totally legitimate question. I can't control any official announcements, but I can tell you that we have been expressly told by management in an all-associates meeting that Hogan NY is committed to market. Remember, it is still very early to officially announce.
The people are the same anywhere. If you have a V10 offer, go there. Hogan has nice people, but so does Skadden, Weil, or wherever else you are thinking of going. The bonus for the DC office is pitiful. The people who get the market bonus ALL bill 2800+ hours. Bonuses are tied to hours, but they are not guaranteed. That's why there is no memo and there will never be a memo. Most of the non-corporate associates bill 1800-2000 hours and don't get a bonus. Don't listen to others who say they do. They just don't want the firm to look bad.
Hogan NY will not pay the extra bonuses. This is guaranteed. Hogan NY does not bring in the dollars. Hogan's DC practice is far more lucrative and prestigious, but they are not gauranteed and will not be paid except to the chosen few who bill more than most NY associates.
Again, I don't know anything about DC, but Hogan NY pays NY market bonuses. And while there may be nice people everywhere, at Hogan NY they are the rule rather than the exception.
As someone who did 15 callbacks (and many more post-offer visits), I can say that the people at firms are definitely NOT the same... it's especially interesting that you mention Skadden and Weil, both places where the people caused me to decline my offers.
I did post-offer visits to meet the people in my intended area of practice, and the group at Hogan was my favorite. Every person there was someone I'd want to be friend with even if they weren't co-workers.
More Qs for NYHogan: are you concerned that the firm will try to expand the NY office to the point where it loses its friendly character? What made you choose the firm? What do you think are its greatest strengths? Do you get any work from the DC office?
Also, do you really think it's appropriate to ask about associate bonuses, when I'm only applying for a summer associate position? And if so, should I direct that question to a recruiter or an associate?
Thanks!
Sure, go to NY. Did you get an offer at a V10 shop? Hogan NY attorneys are nice people, but they didn't exactly graduate from T14 law schools-- just look it up. People applying for the Hogan NY office are not the same people who could get offers at V10 firms.
As for the bonuses, they do not match bonuses. If you think you are going to get the extra special bonus in NY, you will be disappointed. As for the regular bonus, they are tied to hours.
Well, I go to a T14 and did quite well, and I'll probably go to Hogan... and one of the associates I interviewed with went to Stanford.
But I don't think that's a great way to make a decision about where to go... I don't feel a need to go to, say, SullCrom just because 10 of my classmates are going. I already have great credentials, so it's not like I need a prestigious firm on my resume just to show I could have worked there. It should be clear from my school, grades, and other honors.
I had several V10 offers; I already turned down Cravath, Cleary, Latham, and Weil. Some I liked but they didn't do the kind of lit I wanted (Cleary), and some were the wrong type of environment (Cravath). All were bigger and more leveraged than I would have liked.
While I'd be annoyed not to get the special bonus, I'd be less so because Hogan offers one really great perk: private offices from day 1. That's worth $10k at least!
Oh, NYHogan: do you know if clerkship bonuses are negotiable?
The above comment was me (12:40 / 11:24).
Like you, I was initially drawn to Hogan for the people; it's not just an act for recruiting purposes. Once I got there, I was pretty psyched about the quality of the work I got--much more "real work" than my friends at other firms were getting. That combination is Hogan NY's greatest strength in my opinion.
As for the bonus questions, since you already have an offer, I wouldn't be sheepish about asking. It's not like they're going to rescind the offer because you asked about compensation. If I were you, I would probably direct the question to an associate with whom you had a particularly good interaction. As for the clerkship bonus, I have no idea if it's negotiable. I would tend to doubt it, but I could be wrong.
Thanks! I'll probably be seeing you this summer : )