If Wanda Sykes Were a Biglaw Associate...
She probably wouldn't be very happy with her law firm. From the Minority Law Journal:
[N]owadays most associates don't plan on spending their entire legal career at one law firm. But some associates are more likely to head for the exits than others. Nearly half of all white male midlevel associates say that they expect to be working at their current firm in five years, according to our Minority Experience Study. Just over 40 percent of minority male midlevels said the same. Of the minority female midlevels, though, fewer than a third planned to stay put.Minority women seem to have more reason to want to leave big firms, according to our findings. [The study] showed women of color experiencing less satisfaction and more obstacles at large firms than their peers, including men of color.
You can read the full article -- replete with numerous quotes from "diversity advisers, "diversity consultants" and "diversity officers" -- over here.
P.S. Yes, the Wanda Sykes reference is pretty random. We just think that she is hilarious, and we try to mention her at every opportunity. We also think she bears an uncanny resemblance to one of our favorite jurists, Judge Janice Rogers Brown (D.C. Cir.; see photo at right).
P.P.S. And have you seen -- or rather, heard -- Wanda Sykes in the new Applebee's ads? The restaurant chain has hired her to serve as the voice for their new "spokesapple." Genius.
Why Are Minority Female Associates Leaving Law Firms? [Minority Law Journal]
(55) 
third
Don't hate me because I am first!
NALP released tons of data and analysis on minorities and women in law firms.
http://nalp.org/press/details.php?id=72
Most interesting is that the biggest law firms are the most diverse.
Lat, I can only conclude that you are hyping Wanda Sykes because of her roots in Portsmouth. Well done, sir, well done.
I always thought she looked like Janice Rogers Brown too! I wouldn't call the latter one of my favorite jurists, however....
I find the aggregation of all non-white populations highly amusing, if slightly unfortunate.
More complaints about the plight of women and/or minority lawyers in large law firms???
Yawn...
12:22 - they do this because the data for individual minority groups are quantitatively insufficient to run group-specific analysis. Read the article.
well, the *avg* minority associate is in the 18th percentile of his/her class so what would you expect?
the ones that stay are the ones who were good law students.
it's not rocket science.
Wanda Sykes is hot.
Pootie Tang unquestionably is Wanda Sykes' best on-screen performance.
"12:22 - they do this because the data for individual minority groups are quantitatively insufficient to run group-specific analysis. Read the article."
Oh I understand why they do it. It's still funny and unfortunate.
Judge Brown is way hotter than Ms. Sykes, if that picture is any indication.
replete with numerous quotes from "diversity advisers, "diversity consultants" and "diversity officers"
=========================
Are there any lower forms of life?
I am in accord with 12:30, her performance in Pootie Tang was a tour de force.
Unquestionably the defining role of her career.
I'm offended by the general suggestion that all black women look alike.
Yes 12:51, racist bigots and BIGLAW associates who think they are better than the staff because they went to some law school.
I've been able to deal with the concerns of girl associates in my own practice. You simply have to be attuned to what girls really want -- stern direction by their male counterparts, and the occasional opportunity to be nurturing, as is their nature. I find that sending the girls out to get coffee during deposition breaks is really fulfilling for them -- it fills that traditional girl role that is often missing in their lives. And when I make a great post-break objection, I give them credit -- "I would never have made that form objection if not for that perfect coffee you brought me. Great work, sweetie."
Another example is, when I'm prepping for a trial, I'll say to one of the girls, "I really need your help with this trial. All of my ties are kind of old and outdated. While we are in here practicing the opening statement, would you go to the mall and pick out some new ties? You've really got an eye for fashion." Showing that kind of confidence in the girls really makes them feel respected and part of the team. An occassional pat on the butt helps, too, even if they say they don't like it. (They really do.)
I think she looks like Justice Thomas.
Snakes on a train??
1:01 -- lolz
12:29: Your very simplistic explanation and conclusion does not address why minority men have more positive experience and stay at greater rates that minority women.
It also doesn't explain why white women have similar (though more positive as a whole) answers as minority women in client contact, partnership, firm recommendations/ratings likelihood of staying? Do you suggest that white women are in a far lower percentile that their male counterparts?
You also haven't recognized that the potential performance disparities in different races don't necessarily correlate with satisfaction and performance (e.g. black, latino, asian women cite negative experiences, but may have very different average law school grades when separated ... but you may be able to find a correlation b/n more of one group leaving than the other so I'm not saying your theory is completely unwarranted).
One more thing-- in your study you haven't taken into account the types of legal jobs that students end up at, to adjust for the average percentile of minority attorneys who end up at the big law firms that the article speaks of-- but that's just a bonus, b/c even doing that doesn't make up for the other failures.
Shoot-- I came up with another one: evidence of a correlation between law school grades and performance in law firms (which leads us right back where we started).
I probably could have summed response to 12:29 with this quote from the article:
"With some exceptions, we found that midlevels' assessments of big-firm life track along gender lines more closely than they correlate by race."
I have had it with this topic. In the last two or three days (though I read them all today) there have been three features on minority/women issues, each one more annoying than the last. First it was minority underrepresentation, than one on women, then one on how minority women had it worst (this one). Each article is more divorced from reality/solutions than the last.
What few seem to realize is that there are two solutions here: 1) affirmative action for hiring and promotion; and 2) fixing the problems that effect everyone.
One thing that annoys me (and I'm sure that someone will correct me if I'm wrong here), but it seems that people are incapable of understanding statistical principles. You:
1) start with a minority group (though this is taking liberties when you include "women");
2) then narrow that to college grads from that group (which had been a grossly disproportionate ratio than white males:white male college grads);
3) narrow further to JD holders (same, but even more disproportionate historically);
4) narrow further to lawyers employed in private practice at firms of more than X lawyers (probably a limiting factor among groups, possibly not);
5) narrow further to people who stay long enough to be promoted;
6) narrow further to people that are actually promoted.
There are many steps along the way for all kinds of factors to derail minority partnerships. Frankly, the biggest is self-selection given attrition rates at big firms for all associates (and this comes near the end of the long process).
Even assuming three things, which I do not opine on in reality (equality of aptitude for big firm law--influenced by both genetics and culture, equality of opportunities, and absence of discrimination), odds are very low for anyone, let alone candidates from specific groups. Try substituting "Italian," "Irish," or "Ukranian" for any other group and try to figure out why one or all of those groups are underrepresented.
I think everyone agrees, for the most part, that the problem is largely in associate attrition, since entering classes are much closer to population ratios than partnership classes. Figuring out why so many leave, without regard to demographics, would do more to help than anything else.
What is the biggest proposal anyone has come up with to "fix" this? Create more flex-time arrangements to address women's issues. Right. Make the track longer so that attrition is more likely. Great idea. This just reinforces the idea that men must bill 2500 hours a year while women bill 1400 (or 0) and take care of the kids.
Sorry - I guess I just got annoyed by the article that said that women need training on business development principles that all male associates already have--either because it is innate or because of the mythical "boys club." Idiots.
1:32 = without question, the most tedious post in the history of the internets.
as a black man I'm offended by the suggestion that ANYONE would want to keep working in BigLaw. It sucks.
I like Wanda, but right now I need to find a valet to take care of my Prius. Is there a black man who can park my car? I'm looking for a black man to park my car.
As a black man I'm offended by the suggestion that ANYONE would want to keep working in BigLaw. It sucks.
lol nope, that award goes to 1:36.
As a black man I'm offended by the suggestion that ANYONE would want to keep working in BigLaw. It sucks.
Me, too, 12:53. Outrageous. And the Wanda Sykes reference isn't "random", it's another example of lumping all black women in together.
Snakes on a Train just made my day.
1:32: I have to disagree. What have you failed to take into account? What are you missing? Have you factored in the abuse of rhetorical questions?
One more thought--Have you thought about the use of grammar and punctuation?
have you considered repetitiveness and lack of structure?
And another thing--have you thought about the use of grammar and punctuation?
As a white girl, I'm offended Lat apparently thinks all black women look alike.
1:36-- fine. I'll do better next time lol.
1:32--no, you won't.
LAT needs 300 votes. Let's give them to him! LAT to 300 more votes!!!
http://2007.weblogawards.org/polls/best-law-blog-1.php
If the bible has taught us anything, and it hasn't, it's that boys should stick to boys' sports and girls should stick to girls sports, like mudwrestling, foxy boxing, and such and such.
Is it racist to say that two black women look alike when they actually DO look alike?
I mean come on!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Janice_Rogers_Brown.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WanSyke1.jpg
"Snakes on a train??"
Yeah, that's the prequel to Snakes on a Plane.
Is it racist to say that two black women look alike when they actually DO look alike?
I mean come on!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Janice_Rogers_Brown.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WanSyke1.jpg
yeah, they actually kinda do look alike. It is bad that all the black woman topics are lumped in the same post.
"It's not because she's black. It's because we've used the word n****r sometimes here. I'm not going to take a chance ever in life of losing everything I've worked for for 30 years because some f***ing n****r heard us say n****r and turned us into The Enquirer magazine."
(Cue the tears) "Oops, my bad."
What about Ciara? She looks like Wanda Sykes also!
http://virendaslife.blogspot.com/2006/05/ciara-looks-like-wanda-sykes.html
If this comment section is any indication, minority female lawyers certainly have to deal with a load of crap.
I'd know that a$$ anywhere.
I'd know that a$$ anywhere.
What a preposterous article interpreting that survey..."nearly half" of white male associates expect to be with their firms in 5 years, while "over 40 percent" of minority male associates expect to be with their firm. So what's the actual split - 48/44? 49/42? 47/43? Is it even close to being statistically significant? Somehow I doubt it, or we'd have seen the actual numbers.
Based on anecdotal experience, I assume there are diversity issues at most midsize to large law firms, but this article doesn't show me much one way or the other.
3:53 I was going to make the same point. What exactly is the difference between "nearly half" and "just over 40 percent"? Somewhere between 1 and 8, which may not even be statistically significant depending on how big the sample size is.
Anywhoo, I remember the day when a grande coffee at Starbucks was just over $1.50 but now its skyrocketed and is almost $1.60. Oh the horror!
As an Asian-American female associate, I'm frustrated that all minority women were conflated into one group. Apart from a quick mention that Asian-American women's numbers looked more like white women's numbers than black/Hispanic women's numbers, we aren't told whether "minority" for the rest of the article includes Asians, or blacks and Hispanics only. At the least, this would have been useful information to know. If indeed Asian women are reporting different experiences than other minority women, then that suggests that the issues are other than having a non-white skin color - and we should try to parse what those issues are as explicitly as possible.
As an Asian-American female associate, I'm frustrated that all minority women were conflated into one group. Apart from a quick mention that Asian-American women's numbers looked more like white women's numbers than black/Hispanic women's numbers, we aren't told whether "minority" for the rest of the article includes Asians, or blacks and Hispanics only. At the least, this would have been useful information to know. If indeed Asian women are reporting different experiences than other minority women, then that suggests that the issues are other than having a non-white skin color - and we should try to parse what those issues are as explicitly as possible.
4:09,
Asian American = minority
Although that should have been obvious, consider the following passage from the article:
"In written comments, many minority women complained that they felt at a disadvantage -- "shut out," as one Asian-American third-year associate phrased it"
I read the article, it was rife with statistics, but here are the two biggest take home points:
1. Men like Biglaw better than women. Minority males are more satisfied with Biglaw than white women (and minority women). Is it really surprising that women on average don't like a job that requires long hours, especially during traditional child-bearing years?
2. The differences in satisfaction were trivially small. On a scale of 1-5, white males (most satisfied) averaged something like 4.10 in satisfaction, and minority females (least satisfied) had like 3.80. Minority males and white females fall in between. There were like 30 different categories, but this was a typical score.
You mean people who got the job through AA and not through their talent level leave a firmwhen the rubber meets the road becuase they can't handle work that's over their head, more so than people who got the job through their talent level?
Truly shocking. This just in: Al Sharpton belongs in prison, sky is blue.
Wanda Sykes looks like Janice Rogers Brown. Period. If black people get uptight because non-blacks make a comparison that black people don't see, maybe they can teach us all how wonderfully open minded they are when confuse asians or whites or hispanics with each other who don't look similar.
Stupid pc idiots.