Singing the $160K $145K Blues?
Gracing the front page of today's Washington Post is an article that will appeal to many ATL readers. It's by Post reporter Ian Shapira, who previously wrote this interesting piece about summer associates. Here's the headline:
Okay, not a terribly novel development. As one of several ATL readers who wrote us about this story observed, "it's not exactly Man Bites Dog."
But even if the article may not be earth-shattering, it's a well-crafted, thought-provoking piece. We think it will get an interesting discussion going. Also, anything that gets a general audience to care about the niche topic of law firms, like a front page WaPo article, is a good thing in our book.
Excerpts and observations, after the jump.
Here's the lede:
For months, Beirne Roose-Snyder has struggled with what she will do after graduating from Georgetown University Law Center. Should she accept the $145,000-a-year offer from a Chicago firm? Or should she gamble and look for a potentially more satisfying public interest job? She and her husband are plowing through some Wok N' Roll takeout in their cramped District basement apartment as they ponder her choice. The deadline is Dec. 1."In some ways, I am more afraid of the law firm," says Adam Keller, 28, a Fairfax County teacher. "If you thrive at the firm, I would like you a lot less because you'd be a different person."
Roose-Snyder has an offer from the Chicago office of Drinker Biddle Gardner Carton, where she worked last summer. But she also has public interest aspirations:
She's zeroing in on a $60,000-a-year fellowship at Georgetown's O'Neill Institute for National and Global Health Law, which has a March deadline. An institute official is urging her to apply and forget the firm.
It's a nice problem to have. One ATL reader, also a GULC student, wrote us:
"Ms. Roose-Snyder, I don't know you, but it's a little tacky to agree to a front page Washington Post article about how you're stressed because you can't decide between all your wonderful offers when some of your classmates have no offers at all. Not cool."
Later on in the piece, more discussion of the trade-offs:
A public service job in global health, Roose-Snyder's passion, would appeal to her Quaker faith. But a position with a brand-name corporate law firm would help erase her and her husband's graduate school debts, help nail down the fundamentals of the field and, perhaps most dear to the couple, offset the cost of adopting a first child. She also is drawn intellectually to the challenge of representing influential clients.
Here's the article's news hook -- a tie-in to current developments within the profession (including the fairly recent associate pay raises):
Although her quandary is familiar in the legal world, the factors that make those high law firm salaries so alluring are intensifying. Law school tuition and student debt keep rising, trade associations report, and the gap between public interest and law firm salaries is widening.In the land of marble floors and dark wood paneling, veteran lawyers and young associates consider the huge salaries a mixed blessing.
"We don't mind paying the market rate for associates, but we do have some concern that as salaries get higher, you're getting people who really don't want to work at the law firm," said Steven Schulman, a partner with Akin Gump in Washington. "Of course we want law students interested in pro bono work, but in interviews, the red flag is when they seem interested only in pro bono and are not realistic about being a commercial lawyer."
A fair point from Mr. Schulman. And a reminder to law students applying to law firms: temper that enthusiasm for pro bono when you're interviewing, at least until you have an offer in hand. Express more interest in representing Big Company X versus Big Company Y, as they duke it out over that contract dispute.
Here's a topical observation for people agonizing over offers right now:
[L]aw firms are enticing, and not just for the money. Their offers typically arrive as third-year students prepare for the fall term. Those who accept enjoy a relaxing final year of school. Nonprofit and government agencies make offers several months later. So if a third-year prefers a Department of Justice job or a public interest fellowship but wants to keep an offer from a firm as a backup? Often, that can't happen.
And here's a related observation from an ATL reader. Feel free to touch upon this in the comments:
"Seeing as it is recruiting season (or just after) and many people are pondering their offers or wondering if they made the right decision in accepting the offer that they did, could you open a thread on the ethics/procedure of not going back to a firm whose offer you have already accepted?""I think that a lot of people accept offers, then through the course of the year decide to do other things. Is there anything wrong with not going back to the firm, and going, say, into government work instead? Are there other issues that people should be thinking about as they make this decision?"
As for Ms. Roose-Snyder, what did she decide to do with her competing offers? To find out, read the rest of Shapira's article, which you can access by clicking here.
A Mixed Blessing for Aspiring Lawyers [Washington Post]
(119) Comments
not first
second!
not first either
Way to recycle yet another story from the WSJ Law Blog.
Lat--set up an ATL poll for Ms. Roose Snyder and then lets send her the results. Apparently her deadline is today. I bet they're off to Chi-town.
1:20, the Post article is different from the WSJ story.
The WSJ story was about law school grads who can't get jobs. The Post article is about law school grads who have more job offers than they know what to do with.
GULC: Where you can't even make market in Chicago, let alone NYC or DC. Nice.
Also, the fact that she's debating so long means (1) she doesn't want the firm, but (2) she'll take it for the money, and (3) will be miserable.
My bad--didn't know she inked the deal.
1:20 -- The WSJ Blog "recycles" stories from ATL all the time.
Two big stories that ATL had before the WSJ, which the WSJ later "recycled," were the Thacher Proffitt layoffs this month and the Cravath special bonuses last month.
"She also is drawn intellectually to the challenge of representing influential clients."
?!?!
Wrt the ATL reader's question:
Very bad form to accept an offer and then not go back.
It is an offer, which you can accept or reject. It is not an option exercisable at will.
GULC = overrated.
Hi, 1:26, have we met? Visit the WSJ Law Blog to see!
What a great idea to tell your future employer that you'll be using them for a couple of years and that wearing a suit to work is so unusual for you and will make your husband hate you.
Of course she should take the firm offer! The fellowship is not a sure thing. She still has to apply for it.
oh no, poor her! job choices! give me a break, and not a surprise she went with the $$.
I turned down a 90K midlaw firm job to take a one-year public interest fellowship that pays less than 30K (full disclosure - I'll probably make at least 50K next year).
My astronomical loans are in deferment. I've never regretted it for a second.
Law students and young lawyers often think they owe some level of loyalty to the first firm that they accept a job with. You don't. You are or will be an at-will employee. The firm can fire you at any time for any reason. Firms sometimes revoke offers for incoming first-years if there is a huge downturn and/or the firm implodes. It happens.
If you decide you don't want to work at a firm, don't. You have no legal, ethical or moral obligation to do otherwise.
Now, that being said, it's a small world. Be nice when you do it and don't do it a few weeks before you're supposed to start. Also, don't expect ever getting a job at that firm again if you change your mind or maybe any other for that matter depending on the circumstances.
Hmmm... looking at the pic, surprised tpw didn't hire her as a bookend for the other playboy bunny.
btw - to hello at 1:33: all law students are overrated, you ass.
Beirne Roose Snyder to fry cook at Burger King!
Re: whether or not to accept the firm offer, that's one thing about a clerkship. You can put off the decision for another year (but interview around if you want).
I'm sure her husband will be more comfortable with the decision when he realizes the job will let him afford more of those sticky icky nugs i'm betting dunkins to dollars he smokes from a 2 foot graffix glass bong he keeps behind the arm of their couch.
Well, I'm sure her relationship with her firm won't be awkward at all now.
To the GULC student who said it was tacky for Ms. Roose-Snyder to agree to be featured in a WP article while some of her classmates didn't have offers, grow up. While it is unfortunate that some students might not have offers, what does that have to do with her decision to be interviewed for the article? I expect that GULC students without offers are well aware that a majority of their classmates did get offers. The law is a competitive field, and if you expect that people are going to keep their own accomplishments quiet for the sake of someone else's feelings you are in for a rude awakening. Quite frankly, I don't think she came off as arrogant in the article at all - she seemed to be sincerely wrestling with her decision, and what's wrong with that?
I think that 1:37 has it exactly right.
1:43 that is great point. What terrible, terrible judgment. If she takes the firm job she'll be out within 18 months, guaranteed.
After looking at the picture, it's hard to tell who's the husband and who's the wife. Yikes!
Hope they rescind "her" offer.
1:44 -- i bet you were one of those people who just LOVED to be asked about your job decision during 2L fall. Oh my, what WILL i do with all these offers.
Competition is fine. Tact is also good.
I thought she sounded kind of obnoxious. Oh, my, what do I do with all of these opportunities!? It's not like she can't change her mind in a year or two. This is not a life-altering decision. And, as a former Peace Corps Volunteer, I thought the comparison between going to work for a firm (which you generally want to do primarily for the cash) and going to VOLUNTEER for the Peace Corps (which pays about $250 a month) was a bit bizarre.
1:44 -- i bet you were one of those people who just LOVED to be asked about your job decision during 2L fall. Oh my, what WILL i do with all these offers.
Competition is fine. Tact is also good.
This article just reinforces my opinion of leftist law students as self-entitled, myopic, and deluded brats.
Do GULC students really not have offers? I thought if you made it into the T-14 you were all set, at least for a biglaw offer.
And Lat--I love going and voting for your blog on the online polls that you point us towards. Can you do us a favor and get a real server?
You're only in good shape at GULC if you're far above the median. In years past, you would have been set. However, the market has changed. Though I knew tons of people who got gov't and public interest jobs for the summer (and jobs with small or mid-size firms) during the spring. So, don't give up yet!
This just shows that the T14 cutoff is arbitrary and idiotic. GULC is not a guarantee of market salary. Similarly, a T25 school is not a guarantee of failing to make market.
1:58, the situation's worse than you expect. Those in the BEST position at GULC are only receiving $145K offers, per this article.
You're only in good shape at GULC if you're far above the median. In years past, you would have been set. However, the market has changed. Though I knew tons of people who got gov't and public interest jobs for the summer (and jobs with small or mid-size firms) during the spring. So, don't give up yet!
everyone I know have jobs lined up - even those with not the greatest grades - but then again, I don't hang out with many idiots
"One night early this month, Roose-Snyder and Keller are debating the options in their Columbia Heights apartment, which is so small that an espresso maker and other wedding gift/kitchen appliances must be stored in a closet with the washer and dryer."
Their apartment has a washer and a dryer - and we're supposed to feel their pain?
1:57 has is right!
And 1:51, I had two friends at GULC who didn't get firm offers for their 2L summers, but still ended up as associates at BigLaw by graduation.
1:57 has it right!
And 1:51, I had two friends at GULC who didn't get firm offers for their 2L summers, but still ended up as associates at BigLaw by graduation.
Interesting quote in the article from Andrew Canter @ Building a Better Legal Profession. Looks like his site -- www.betterlegalprofession.org -- provides info for students in the same position. Might've been helpful for Roose Synder...
Everyone I know have jobs lined up - even those with subpar grades
AHHHHHHHH I NEED TO BE FIRST ON THE FORDHAM POST BUT I CANNOT DUE TO A BROKEN COMMENT. FIX IT AL GORE, FIX IT IMMEDIATELY!
AHHHHHHHH I NEED TO BE FIRST ON THE FORDHAM POST BUT I CANNOT DUE TO A BROKEN COMMENT. FIX IT AL GORE, FIX IT IMMEDIATELY!
AND BY IMMEDIATELY I MEAN NOW!
Anyone know if Andrew Canter isn't a trust-fund baby? It would be so refreshing to hear about someone taking a public interest job that doesn't have loaded parents. As a student at HLS, I always loved it when the rich kids preached about the evils of big law (not realizing that some of us have $185K in student loans...)
To me, the most startling part of the article was that she had a BOYfriend.
I don't go to GULC, but I hear that GULC offers something called curriculum B.
I suspect that this article provides a good summary of the reasons why curriculum B is craptastic.
she comes across as such an arrogant brat who thinks she's a legal badass, and has an offer from a firm I've never heard of and some busted public interest position. a TTT of a human.
2:09 -- i also like when prof's preach about the evils of big law -- as if they don't teach at schools that charge $40k a year.
thanks for the shout-out GULC alum. God, it rankles me when I see phrases like "corporate corps." although it does allow for more shameless contempt on my part for the so-called do-gooders. I also take much secret delight when people take the corporate jobs solely to repay their loans and then crash and burn when they can't handle the real world and its, gasp, 50+ hour work weeks. I mean, can you believe than in corporate law, the day doesn't start out by talking over coffee for 2 hours about how bad a president GW is?
thanks for the shout-out GULC alum. God, it rankles me when I see phrases like "corporate corps." although it does allow for more shameless contempt on my part for the so-called do-gooders. I also take much secret delight when people take the corporate jobs solely to repay their loans and then crash and burn when they can't handle the real world and its, gasp, 50+ hour work weeks. I mean, can you believe than in corporate law, the day doesn't start out by talking over coffee for 2 hours about how bad a president GW is?
Just take the high-paying gig for a few years and get out. It's really not that big of a quandary.
Cumberland to $14.50
she looks like a poor man's phyllis from the office, only more mannish.
"GULC: Where you can't even make market in Chicago, let alone NYC or DC. Nice."
Link supporting the proposition that NYC is a more competitive market than Chicago?
Amen 2:15. What's the big deal? And one little article isn't going to change your life. If you want to go make money, just do it, and quit your public whining. I'd love to chat with a partner at her firm in Chicago and see what she thinks about all of this front-page musing.
1:51 - While I appreciate it must be discouraging to not have an offer, do you really expect everyone who does have offers to keep quiet about it? Isn't it possible that people might want to talk to their peers going through the same process about it, without meaning to brag or hurt someone's feelings?
Also, don't drop out - you certainly won't be any better off having accumulated 2 years worth of debt with no JD to show for it. People do get jobs as 3Ls with a little persistence.
I don't go to GULC, but I hear that GULC offers something called curriculum B.
I suspect that this article provides a good summary of the reasons why curriculum B is craptastic.
i bet they met at a moveon.org rally, fell in love over chai and a discussion of the poors and played a really gross game of hide the tofu dog later that night. ew.
You know what really grinds my gears? People with two last names. It's called a last name (singular) for a reason. What is it? You want people to spend more time saying/writing your name? And she didn't even take her husband's name - oh my, what an independent womyn with a long impressive name.
Well, while you may not have heard of the firm (It's Drinker Biddle & Reath, but in Chicago it is Drinker Biddle Gardner Carton for a couple of years because of its recent merger) its Chicago office does have a very strong healthcare law practice. In fact the only really good practice areas that Gardner Carton had were in bankruptcy and healthcare law.
Good point 2:19. Most organizations/firms like to stay off the front pages of national newspapers, unless it's to tout great news. This article falls far short of that mark. I don't think this one will play too well with the firm. I wonder if the GULC 2L cleared the article with the firm prior to publication? Offers can be rescinded (i.e., fired before you start).
I'm a third-year night student at GULC and am barely in the top-third. I received 6 callbacks from 7 firms and 5 offers. I didn't bring it up to any of my friends, because I knew I was fortunate, but I suspect there's something more than grades at play if someone from just above the median can't find a biglaw job somewhere. Either they were unrealistic in their bidding, interviewed poorly, or chose difficult markets to try to break. Bashing GULC for its career prospects seems a bit ridiculous to me though. I'll be enjoying my market paying summer position next year.
I'm a third-year night student at GULC and am barely in the top-third. I received 6 callbacks from 7 firms and 5 offers. I didn't bring it up to any of my friends, because I knew I was fortunate, but I suspect there's something more than grades at play if someone from just above the median can't find a biglaw job somewhere. Either they were unrealistic in their bidding, interviewed poorly, or chose difficult markets to try to break. Bashing GULC for its career prospects seems a bit ridiculous to me though. I'll be enjoying my market paying summer position next year.
I'm a third-year night student at GULC and am barely in the top-third. I received 6 callbacks from 7 firms and 5 offers. I didn't bring it up to any of my friends, because I knew I was fortunate, but I suspect there's something more than grades at play if someone from just above the median can't find a biglaw job somewhere. Either they were unrealistic in their bidding, interviewed poorly, or chose difficult markets to try to break.
Bashing GULC for its career prospects seems a bit ridiculous to me though. I'll be enjoying my market paying summer position next year.
drop out of gulc and go to gw.
Its the same old article. Does she care what type of work she will be doing? Today? Three years from now?
hey people--who's cooler?
a) this Beirne chick
b) BigLaw associates who know they're doing it for the money and proud of it
c) public service attys who know they're poor and proud of it
d) anyone other than a, b, or c
"He had me at 'marxism is rightly conceived and poorly implemented'"
I'm a third-year night student at GULC and am barely in the top-third. I received 6 callbacks from 7 firms and 5 offers. I didn't bring it up to any of my friends, because I knew I was fortunate, but I suspect there's something more than grades at play if someone from just above the median can't find a biglaw job somewhere. Either they were unrealistic in their bidding, interviewed poorly, or chose difficult markets to try to break.
Bashing GULC for its career prospects seems a bit ridiculous to me though. I'll be enjoying my market paying summer position next year.
hey people--who's cooler?
a) this Beirne chick
b) BigLaw associates who know they're doing it for the money and proud of it
c) public service attys who know they're poor and proud of it
d) anyone other than a, b, or c
2:30: Not his fault that Lat's server sucks. He really can't afford a new one?
I'm a third-year night student at GULC and am barely in the top-third. I received 6 callbacks from 7 firms and 5 offers. I didn't bring it up to any of my friends, because I knew I was fortunate, but I suspect there's something more than grades at play if someone from just above the median can't find a biglaw job somewhere. Either they were unrealistic in their bidding, interviewed poorly, or chose difficult markets to try to break.
Bashing GULC for its career prospects seems a bit ridiculous to me though. I'll be enjoying my market paying summer position next year.
Yeah, I posted once. Not sure where all those dupes came from. It took for ever and then gave me an error message. I didn't even realize until I came back that it had posted at all.
2:30: Not his fault that Lat's server sucks. He really can't afford a new one?
beirne to public interest!
drinker biddle should make her decision easier for her.
What's with the creepy adoption reference? Is it just to reassure readers that her hippie DNA will die with her?
I'm a 2L at Georgetown. I'm in the top half of the class. I also did not get a summer offer at a big law firm. I went to career services, did a mock interview there, and one at Goodwin Procter. I don't *think* I'm enough of a mutant to blow 15 interviews. Never know, though. I got four callbacks, and no offers, out of 15 screening interviews. I was very careful to apply to firms in my "range."
Everyone says DC is a hard market, and that's career services only explanation for why I didn't end up with anything. But that's a bit silly--if you can't get a DC job out of GULC, then what's the point?
I'm also not offended by people who have found success. That's great. I'm happy for my friends who have found good jobs, and I don't see any reason why they should be secretive about it.
No kidding - is she trying to imply that if you don't adopt then you hate babies that don't look like you? wow, GULC sounds awesome
2:45 -- Maybe she can't have kids b/c Beirne just became a she recently? Look at her picture. Sounds plausible to me.
i bet they met at a moveon.org rally, fell in love over chai and a discussion of the poors and played a really gross game of hide the tofu dog later that night. ew.
2:53 - exactly. her do-gooder values stem only from resentment and alienation. Impressive.
i bet they met at a moveon.org rally, fell in love over chai and a discussion of the poors and played a really gross game of hide the tofu dog later that night. ew.
GULC 2L-
I feel for you. I am a GULC alumni, I was in the top 1/3 of my class and did not have any summer offers coming out of OCI, unlike the rest of my classmates, many of whose grades were significantly worse. While it was miserable at the time, it really was the best thing that could have happened to me. I got a summer government job in April. That summer job put me in a much better position to get an honors position the next year. Several years later I am so much much happier than if I had gotten one of the OCI firm jobs I interviewed for. I get recruiter calls frequently to join the firms that rejected me as a law student, which I now turn down with glee. While my first couple years were financially tight, my salary has doubled and I am not hurting now. I still make a lot less than my GULC classmates, but I can afford my loans, a condo, etc. I also have time to spend my money, and much more gratifying work.
If I were you, I'd start looking carefully at government and other jobs. Pay attention to what they do- it matters. Get a list of gov alumni from the career services office- they have such a thing.
My other caveat- I have interviewed a couple of GULC law students (and others) who basically say in the interview that they don't want to be a lawyer, or are completely unfocused. Make sure this is not you.
I'm confused. At HLS you can hold open one firm offer most of the spring while you look for public interest jobs, to avoid the exact timeline problems in the article. Career services make recruiting firms promise this. Is this really rare? I didn't think so.
2:09 and others - I think it's a pretty inaccurate characterization of those who do take public interest jobs to say they're all rich/have no debt. It's just as likely to the people I know who are doing it to be middle class and not used to a 6-figure lifestyle, and have debt that the loan repayment prog. will cover.
I was raised by a single momma who was a teacher, $100K+ of debt but the school will pay it off, and I'm taking a public interest fellowship. hope you feel slightly refreshed :)
GULC 2L-
I feel for you. I am a GULC alumni, I was in the top 1/3 of my class and did not have any summer offers coming out of OCI, unlike the rest of my classmates, many of whose grades were significantly worse. While it was miserable at the time, it really was the best thing that could have happened to me. I got a summer government job in April. That summer job put me in a much better position to get an honors position the next year. Several years later I am so much much happier than if I had gotten one of the OCI firm jobs I interviewed for. I get recruiter calls frequently to join the firms that rejected me as a law student, which I now turn down with glee. While my first couple years were financially tight, my salary has doubled and I am not hurting now. I still make a lot less than my GULC classmates, but I can afford my loans, a condo, etc. I also have time to spend my money, and much more gratifying work.
If I were you, I'd start looking carefully at government and other jobs. Pay attention to what they do- it matters. Get a list of gov alumni from the career services office- they have such a thing.
My other caveat- I have interviewed a couple of GULC law students (and others) who basically say in the interview that they don't want to be a lawyer, or are completely unfocused. Make sure this is not you.
This whole thing was a lot funnier on How I Met Your Mother.
3:21 That is refreshing. I know that not "all" people who take public interest jobs are rich. Just seemed like the preechier ones at HLS were. The middle-class folks had a better understanding of the financial pressure. For older law students with significant debt before law school, doing a public interest job even with loan forgiveness is not always an option.
What is intrinsically better about working with the poors than doing, say, equity derivatives work.
I will openly posit that creating openess, transparency and the ability to efficiently allocate risk in financial markets is tremendously larger net positive for society than self-righteous overprivileged psuedo-marxists whining on behalf of the poors.
you should have gone to state schools, you whiney bitches!
Personally, I think that this woman's dilemma should have been resolved long before she arrived at GULC. I know that most people enter law school without a clear picture of the type of law they want to practice. But for cripe's sake, when you're incurring significant debt, you should probably have given some thought to the divide between public/private practice.
you should have gone to state schools, you whiney bitches!
3:46 - "the poors"
Wow, it's official. Autoadmit has invaded ATL. Time to abandon ship.
2:10 anonymoose,
There is a B Curriculum which is just a different approach to the 1st year courses. (more theoretical and academicish . . . geared towards students interested in teaching and who love to talk in class.)
The student in the article was in ยง1, which is the normal curriculum.
You guys at Georgetown suck. I went to a Tier 2 school, didn't summer anywhere (didn't even interview with anyone), and then got a job in BigLaw at one of the biggest firms here in Atlanta after graduation (as a full, partner track associate).
3:21 -- The HLS setup is unique. I had an HLS guy in my summer class a few years ago, and he had waited to officially accept at the firm until spring because he was "looking into public interest." All of the other summers were from top 20 schools, and none of us could believe he had gotten away with it.
4:51 -- Atlanta is not BigLaw. Thanks for playing.
what other T14 schools have job prospects that are worse than you would expect/assume?
she should have taken a fullride to a lower t1. boohoo
4:51, congratulations on your Tier 2 career!
4:51
That's Atlanta. Who would want to work there?
They start rationalizing the Drinker Biddle offer. No more long-term debt. Enough money to adopt a child. "Neither of us has the feeling that we're not parents unless the child looks like us," Roose-Snyder says.
how the fuck does this come up in a conversation?
First of all, is it because the server sucks that people constantly repost comments? Lat -- fix it.
Second, I never understand these people who cry when faced with law school debt that was totally predictable. And I'm sorry she made the wrong decision.
2:09:
"For older law students with significant debt before law school, doing a public interest job even with loan forgiveness is not always an option."
Say what? Then how about not going to law school if it will force you to kowtow before the corporate gods and sell your soul?
Totally agree 5:16. And why did the reporter include that particular quote in the article?
Beirne is the real deal, so critics can eat a fat d**k. Sincere person, well intentioned, prettier than her WaPo picture.
2:47, if you can't get a biglaw job out of GULC you're worthless. Really. Beirne did it and she wasn't even sure she wanted to do it.
It is rather childish and unprofessional to attack a person based on appearances. Some of the commentary on the website is more appropriate for a teenage chat room, and not for blog of so called "pre-professionals"
While it is unfortunate that many people have not received offers as lucrative or prestigious as those that Beirne has received, it does not take away from her dilemma. As the article stated it is a question that many graduate students face. Are we to follow our ambitions, or our need to pay off our student loans? I think it is brave of Beirne to share her very personal story in such a public, especially when she must be aware of what a vicious crowd she speaks to.
GULC 3L, I'd love to eat a fat d**k. I graduated top 10% from UCLA and I haven't had any offers for fat d**k in a while. I hope those fortunate enough to get offers don't feel uncomfortable talking about them around me on my account. I should have accepted my scholarships at Fordham or Cordozo and used the money to shower myself in fat d**k for the rest of my life.
Oh well.
Are you even a law student 10:02? First, this isn't a blog for "pre-professionals." It's a blog for lawyers. Second, Beirne's offers were not "lucrative or prestigious." She's only making 145K! Finally, it's not brave of Beirne to share her story. EVERY law student who does reasonably well at a reasonably prestigious school gets a "lucrative or prestigious" offer and must decide which road to travel.
You must be a ninja.
SLS has the same policy as HLS. You are allowed to hold one firm offer open through the spring to interview for public interest positions.
Why is government work assumed to be more rewarding (I don't mean financially)than private practice?
Maybe the govt. job is rewarding in the sense that you can slack, take 2 hour lunches, and do the same mundane tasks repeatedly without any pressure.
No thanks, I'd rather be challenged.
9:53,
Welcome to ATL. Unfortunately, most of the brats that go directly to law school from undergrad on Daddy's dime are the same childish people you will find posting on ATL.
You'll learn to always ignore the first five posts, ignore all references to Cumberland 2L, and never believe someone can be that gullible (i.e. they're pulling your strings...see Hofstra1L)
Boalt's recruiting services also asks firms to let students hold one offer open until the spring to interview for public interest. The public interest people I know just don't bother to interview with firms at all, so don't know how often it happens.
10:55- clearly you have never looked at what gov't lawyers do. Gov work is generally more rewarding. And those two hour lunches, slacking, and mundane tasks are mostly mythical. For one thing, you get alot of responsibility early one. You can be arguing in court your first year, rather than doing document review. For another thing- think about the cases you see in the newspaper, they almost always involve the government. This is certainly true for prosecutions, but also in other areas of the government. For example, you might be writing regulations for consumer protection, working on national energy policy, investigating violations of the fair housing act, etc. Plus you almost always have contact with actual clients all the time. Compare this to doing document review, or writing footnotes of briefs.
if government work wasn't so satisfying then why would private firms need to pay 3 times as much for the services of freshly minted grads?
would anyone do biglaw if govt compensation even began to approach what is available in the private sector?
I don't know who all these GULC posters are, but I'm a 3L at GULC and I can think of only 2 people I know who don't have offers to go back to firms after graduation, and both of their grades are hideous. Everyone else I know is at or near the top of the market, whether in DC, Chicago, NY, or anywhere else. I'm at $160 in DC, so we can't all be failures.
Faegre and Dorsey only pay 120k. Singing the 120K blues.
No 2 hour lunches being had in my gov't office. No 120K salary either but lots of court time and learning opportunities.
Money(not alot), experience, and a career that I like. Isn't that what we all are looking for?
I don't fault biglaw lawyers for picking the money that goes along with a firm job and i would hope that they don't judge me for picking the prosecutor's office. Do what you want and figure out how to make it work, loans be damned.
who even wants court time? court time is for poors. short sleeved dress shirt wearing, 9-5 working, ham and egger poors.
aww... did someone get a C in trial ad?