fizzirst

First

Jones Day New York sent out bonus letters to individuals yesterday. A number of the people I spoke to who made hours (2000+) got regular and special.

I am sure there are still people who didn't, so you can't call it a full match to Cravath. That being said, they are paying them to certain people.

Firms are parading themselves like peacocks with these special bonuses to show how financially strong they are. Recruiting isn't that big a concern because aside from the margins, law students are interchangeable and fungible.

My firm still hasn't said a word about bonuses this year ... awesome. F*ck my firm. It sucks.

If you bill less than 2100 at MoFo, and are not among the top-ranked associates in your department (who might receive merit bonuses), you will get a big fat bonus of $0, as well as a likely comment in your evaluation that you're not pulling your weight...

List of Greatness?

DLA Piper has lockstep and discretionary bonuses already

If you bill less than 2100 at MoFo, and are not among the top-ranked associates in your department (who might receive merit bonuses), you will get a big fat bonus of $0, as well as a likely comment in your evaluation that you're not pulling your weight...

DLA Piper has lockstep and discretionary bonuses already

DLA Piper is notoriously cheap. This shouldn't surprise anyone. They'd pull everyone's bonus completely if they didn't think it would affect their ability to land leftovers at the T14.

I think firms with sub-Cravath profits per partner are idiots if they pay Cravath salaries, bonuses, and/or special bonuses.

I want my firm to maximize per-partner profit, and then decide--at the end of the year and according to associate performance--how much to award in bonuses.

Why? Because I want to make a ****-load of money here when I'm a partner, and I want to reward associates who work hard that particular year--not those that worked hard in law school in years past.

Call me crazy.

1:35 follow-up; this is for all non-NY offices of MoFo (which means the vast majority of MoFo attorneys).

Doesn't McDermott have fairly high profits per partner? $5,000 for class of 01 seems criminal.

Doesn't McDermott have fairly high profits per partner? $5,000 for class of 01 seems criminal.

My firm waits until review time in February to individually communicate bonuses and then publishes a memo after the fact summarizing what the bonuses were. However, I am waiting and hoping that with advent of this site and the increased pace of communication about associate raises/bonuses, that they will act quickly and announce something now - they followed the trends on salary raises, maybe they will here too....

What do we think - in general, does the waiting help or hurt the chances of a special bonus? Is the special bonus fad dying or getting stronger? If a firm has been "silent" - do they have a better chance of getting away with NOT giving out a special bonus? As if we'd forget....

If MWE actually pays bonuses this low, I foresee a mass exodus from the firm unlike any the firm has ever known before. With Profits per Partner as high as they are at MWE, it would be truly disgraceful - inexcusable, really - for the firm to pay such low bonuses.

But let's not jump the gun. I doubt MWE is really planning on paying such low bonuses.

Boo Hoo I only get 5k bonus.

Are you telling me that after an increase in salaries and a slow down in business bonuses have decreased?

This is preposterous!

1:38 - I think you are delusional if you think your firm's decision not to pay market bonuses to associates is justified by the (slim?) possibility of reaping greater rewards if you make partner.

The Special Bonus is dead.

Long live the Special Bonus.

1:45 - Actually, bonuses have increased at the top firms that are diversified enough to be extremely profitable even after some business has decreased.

Bonuses have decreased at those firms that aren't.

A real divide has emerged. Can we call it Tier 1 and Tier 1.5 for firms paying full special bonus and firms in V100 that don't?

I'm a little sore from yesterday's pressing. It takes about 36 hours for the soreness to really kick in.

Lat,

Is your ATL bonus more than what I used to give you at WLRK?

-ML

I work at DLA Piper and I have no idea what you are talking about.

Rumor has it that King & Spalding will not be matching special bonuses in NY (or any office).

Rumor has it that King & Spalding will not be matching special bonuses in NY (or any office).

Rumor has it that King & Spalding will not be matching special bonuses in NY (or any office).

Marty - Is that WLRK in Cincinatti? I loved that show!

Anybody else on here have ICLE tonight at the legal center in New Brunswick?

PPP is a little misleading at MWE because they have soooo many non-equity partners. The firm doesn't take in that much revenue really.

What is the difference btw a regular and 'special' bonus?

Your bonus was $5,000? Damn! Most secretaries at big law firms get bonuses bigger than that!

I have a hard time believing that MWE is planning on paying their sixth year associates 5k bonuses. I'm a paralegal at the same office and my bonus was 2k for 2150 billables.

Why do we need a thread talking with people asking questions about sixth tier toilets like K&S, MWE and DLA Piper?

One thing we can all be clear on: here at Bingham, there is not the slightest, most remote, infinitesimal possibility, in the wildest imaginings of the most delusional associate, that we will get a special bonus.

It is possible that the elect few who have billed 2500 hours at a firm where 50% of associates don't even make 2000, will get a bonus approaching market.

But it is quite certain that our hours requirement is going to 2100.

Good luck with that recruitment.

crazy - you are a twatwaffle and, in the very remote event you make partner, will be working with a bunch of idiots, twatwaffles and assorted last resort associates. good luck with that!

Im at MWE New York; haven't heard anything on bonuses yet either way.

Been getting my resume together, partly for lack of that much else to do. If it keeps up like this im not gonna make hours next year anyway, so what the heck right?

Hey Frat Stud,

Did the guys at your high school ever get low bonuses? Was it a big deal back then?

What departments are the MWE people talking about? Corporate? Trial?

2:01 - a regular bonus is a bonus that is just regular. A special bonus is one you get for being special.

And a middle finger is what you get for being a hilarious dumbfvck! Now take your special ed retarded ass out of here.

MWE NY trial is slow right now. Dont know about the others really.

At the top 25 firms in NYC, PPP has risen 2x-3x+ since 2000, the last time bonuses were extraordinarily high, while associates' overall take-home pay at these firms has gone up approx. 25% or so since 2000. And that's not factoring in: (i) people are generally billing more hours than in 2000, (ii) billing rates have gone UP about 25%+!!.

For associates, the effect is probably a wash when you factor in inflation. But partners are making a SHITload more money. In that context, it's ridiculous that all these Firms are tightening their belts, especially when we will find out that their PPP went up at least 10%-20% this year.

2:01 Anon:

A regular bonus is the one that anyone can get just for meeting the hours requirement. A special bonus is discretionary and more merit based. Different firms call them different things.

A follow-up on the MoFo comments - this is based on the memo that went around in May or something like that, when the last raises were announced. There's still a chance MoFo sees the light and realizes the law firms don't just not give bonuses to associates, especially those meeting their hour requirements, or exceeding their hour requirements by as much as 149 hours.

MoFo New York? No word and no comments at all on bonuses.

2:08, I think the problem is that they spent all of their money on the bear/baby ad. (See WSJ Law Blog.)

2:01(1) - MWE revenue exceeded one billion dollars this billable year. I think they can swing more than $1000 for every year I've been out of law school.

MoFo seems to be all hype. What's the deal?

This is consistent with new new track my firm takes on bonuses. I am at a large midwest (non-chicago) law firm. In order to up our starting salary last year, we were informed that our bonuses would be smaller. Haven't gotten our bonus info yet, but I expect it will be not spectacular.

YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE GONE TO A TTT FIRM.

At least people at MWE and DLA Piper (or any of the rest of you) didn't get a pay cut for the holidays.

My firm sucks.

Bingham has already raised their hours to 2100. And they dont give market bonuses, even if market doesn't include special bonuses.

If you bill less than 2100 at MoFo, and are not among the top-ranked associates in your department (who might receive merit bonuses), you will get a big fat bonus of $0, as well as a likely comment in your evaluation that you're not pulling your weight...

Who's in a firm with an opening for patent attorneys? I'll lateral over, and we can split the referral bonus.

2:17, you clearly work at a firm with no special bonus. The "special" bonus is not discretionary. It's a one-time boost to the regular bonus. By calling it "special" instead of raising the amount of the regular bonus, firms tell their associates not to use this year as a benchmark for future years.

2100 minimums? That sucks.

2:26, Bingham pays market bonuses, just not NYC market bonuses.

Any ideas on the bonus structure at Winston (Chicago)?

JT may previously have mentioned a former firm where a special bonus was paid to certain associates over a particular hour requirement.

If we left before the year ended to go clerk, do we get any of the bonus (my firm used to call it an 'adjustment to our annual comp')

Heller has the same crappy bonuses as MoFo -- i.e., zip for anything under 2100 (though you wouldn't receive any poor comments in evaluation so long as you hit 1900). Orrick appears to be the only SF-based firm that is anywhere near market.

2:17, I would not get your hopes up. My guess is that both Mofo and Heller will issue new bonus memos early next year giving slightly higher (but still sub-market) numbers for 2008.

JONES DAY'S DC OFFICE DOES NOT PAY BONUSES. THEY ALSO DO NOT "ROLL" A BONUS INTO YOUR REGULAR BASE SALARY. SIMPLY NO BONUS, BELOW MARKET PAY.

Sorry for needing to shout, but it really burns, and future associates need to know because the frim is certainly not up front about it.

Everyone gets the same bonus with me!

2:33 - if you're in the Bingham NYC office, then NYC market is "market."

For example, a 6th year associate (class of 2001) billing between 2000 and 2100 hours will get approximately $5,000.

WOW.

Not a peep from anyone in NY, formally or informally, about bonuses. Getting a little uneasy.

Quiet! All of you. You're going to negatively impact our record PPP!

And for the MWE associates on this board, you should have received the firm memo by now. I'm pasting it below for your reference:

"Remove trousers, grab ankles, and prepare to receive your annual bonus."

Why does JD DC think they can get away with this?

Quiet! All of you. You're going to negatively impact our record PPP!

And for the MWE associates on this board, you should have received the firm memo by now. I'm pasting it below for your reference:

"Remove trousers, grab ankles, and prepare to receive your annual bonus."

2:39 is right - 2:33 has it backwards, the NYC bonuses were "market", the other offices were a (somewhat sizable) step below the NYC "market".....

However, a few things have changed - first, salaries are now the same in all offices, and second, 2100 hrs has been announced for next year, which will inevitably make the pool of eligible smaller next year. I have no clue how this will play into this years bonuses. My predicition is market regular bonuses and no special.

The partners are too busy at the moment deciding how to pay each other to worry about the associates. No news until late January.

Quiet! All of you. You're going to negatively impact our record PPP!

And for the MWE associates on this board, you should have received the firm memo by now. I'm pasting it below for your reference:

"Remove trousers, grab ankles, and prepare to receive your annual bonus."

Why does JD DC think they can get away with this?

I pity the fool that gets low-balled on his bonus!

FIRST!!!! God I'm awesome.

I'm surprised that reputable firms can get away with giving $0-5,000 bonuses. I thought Thelen was the only firm that did that...but looks like they are in bad company.

Mmm...Special K.

Since when is MWE "reputable" ?

It's normal for firms to give bonuses in the form of Starbucks gift cards, right?

right?

2:53, JD DC gets away with it because it has so much prestige that associates can actually use that prestige to pay down student loans and buy houses. There's no need for cash compensation.

FLAVIA's post is hilarious, considering I'm at CWT and several of us in one department were told that drinking a shitload of free Flavia was the closest we'd come to a bonus.

Bingham to intravenous FLAVIA!!!!

DLA will be in trouble if bonuses aren't raised from last year.

I don't get it. Why/how does JD DC do this? Doesn't anyone there read ATL?

Bingham to "Coffee Meetings"!!!

2:25 --

"YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE GONE TO A TTT FIRM."

I know! I know! Why oh why oh why didn't I accept Kirkland's offer?!?!?!?

here's slightly off topic question - how exactly are partners paid? Do they still get paid bi-weekly/bi-monthly, and then get a big check (for equity partners) in sharing the profits once a year?

And if so, how much do they get paid? Always wondered...

any more bonus info re: Jones Day (NY)? did Everyone who billed 2000 get regular + special? or were there other factors involved?

How much can you get for a used flavia machine on ebay, anyhow?

I WORK, AT WACHTEL. YOU, ARE ALL PATHETIC AND, BENEATH ME. MY BONUS IS BIGGER, THAN YOURS!

2:25 --

"YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE GONE TO A TTT FIRM."

I know! I know! Why oh why oh why didn't I accept Kirkland's offer?!?!?!?

I WORK, AT WACHTEL. YOU, ARE ALL PATHETIC AND, BENEATH ME. MY BONUS IS BIGGER, THAN YOURS!

When I was deciding between DLA and another another, I was told that DLA is 20,000 base if you hit 2000, and then discretionary above that.

Granted, no Cravath, but its no MWE either.

3:08, we don't even have Flavias here at CWT, you guys (I'm guessing CM or GF) are really getting the shaft....

Arnold & Porter is paying below market bonus solely tied to hours (no merit consideration).

But they haven't adjusted it for a few years.

Seems like a major divide in bonuses between JD NY and DC. Any word from the other offices (e.g., Chicago, Bay Area, L.A.)?

3:28 --

OK, so what's your bonus this year then? Was what you were told correct?

any more bonus info re: Jones Day (NY)? did Everyone who billed 2000 get regular + special? or were there other factors involved?

Chloe,
This is Jack. I don't have a lot of time. Post the bonus schematics now. Use a satcomm overlay filter to get them if you have to.

I have to think MWE is a hoax just like the OMM flap. Not paying special bonuses in Boston is to be expected, but essentially no bonus at all? MWE can't be doing that poorly.

Curious as to what people think of these bonuses at Sidley for non-New York associates:

class of '05 billing 2100 received $25K
class of '01 billing 2200 received $50K
class of '00 billing 2400 received $50K

Chloe,
This is Jack. I don't have a lot of time. Post the bonus schematics now. Use a satcomm overlay filter to get them if you have to.

Best reference I've seen yet.

Jack,

But division said this information was "confidential" and should be "kept within CTU." You may have to kill all of them.

OUCH! Sidley screwed its associates.

3:48,

i generally think that those bonuses are pretty lousy, especially for a place like sidley. remember though, that sidley trys to set the market low with the expectation that others will fall in line (remember 145K), but kirkland eventually steps up (like to 160K).

Yes. DLA is guaranteed 20k if you hit 2000 (as a first year) and discretionary above that.

Is Ropes the only Boston firm that matched?

can anyone else confirm those Sidley numbers?

what does Bingham pay in NYC thats below market? Just not special bonus, or lower than the non-special bonus?

lets say market in NY is 35K for first years - what does Bingham pay a NY first year associate who made hours.

There does appear to be a severe drop in compensation from Jones Day's NY office to its Washington office. This may be attributable to the fact that the NY office operates in a very transparent and uniform market, where failure to "match" will send associates packing.
Washington is less so, as bonuses paid by Washington firms vary widely and information about exact amounts, conditions, etc. is more difficult to obtain. This allows Jones Day Washington to pay no bonuses and feel like it is still ok by the market. People who don't like it can (and do) leave. Whether it will affect recruiting is an open question, but I have to think it will, especially in this day and age of ATL.

pryor cashman bonuses are gonna rock this year.. for once

So if you're a class of '00 and bill less than 2400 hours, you get no bonus? Que?

4:08 - Bingham paid market bonuses in NYC in 2006. 2007 has not been announced. Bonuses outside of NYC were at about 80%-85% of the NYC bonuses.

3.48-

The class of '00 got hosed. Dumbass. Note to self: Don't bill more than 2200 hours.

On that note, why the hell are the law firm bonus structures inverted, such that they do NOT incentivize longer hours???? For increasing hours, you should pay an increasing amount, thus incentivizing insane hours. As for me. I'll cruise along to 1800, f*ck the bonus, have a life, and still pick up the $160k.

2:49, I don't have it backwards. There are multiple markets; NYC doesn't set a national market even if some national firms pay the same bonus across offices.

4:08, Bingham's policy is to always match market.

Call me crazy, but I don't disagree with a discretionary bonus system: Those that work harder, and produce higher quality work, deserve higher compensation. Otherwise, you've got some people at the office all the time and others freeloading off their sweat.

What I do disagree with is giving bonuses dependent on market. Billing 2500 hurts just as badly if you're living in Los Angeles or New York City. So why do the New Yorkers get more? If the firm wants to pay a COL adjustment, fine, but that should apply equally to all cities (ahem! San Francisco).

And yes, associates are paid a lot. And I feel very lucky and glad for this. But I am a little tired of hearing others gripe about how much more we are paid than attorneys back-in-the-day: The cost of law school tuition has far outpaced the rise of associate salaries, and the prospect of partnership is far lower than it was even 10 years ago.

Chloe-

don't give me any crap, and get that weird, squished-up i'm-kind-of-constipated look off your face.

"I don't get it. Why/how does JD DC do this? Doesn't anyone there read ATL?"

I just did. This is a crummy realization.

Jack B -- Will 24 be any good next season? And when will you hook up with Chloe?

To 4:06 -
Ropes did not match. I've heard that some associates did not get the special bonus (or only a fraction of it) if they did not hit the billable hours target.

To 4:36 --

I heard the billable hours target was only 1900.

another JD DC --

Kind of knocks the wind of out ya, doesn't it. Next, somebody is going to tell me that Santa isn't real.

I thought DLA paid what was market in NYC prior to the Cravath special bonus was implemented - that is, 35k for first years etc.

Isn't the 20k bonus mentioned above for their non-NYC offices?

Are Sidley 2000s hosed because those associates are not making partner and those specific people are being pushed out?

Indeed, DLA NY last year paid market for hitting 2000, and well over market at higher billing levels. Whatever those figures above are might be for non-NY offices.

2:33/4:22 (aka Bingham Ass) First of all, nice (and apt) name. Secondly, I didn't disagree with you the first time, I said that NYC was at NYC market and the other offices were below that. But your whole "multiple markets" argument is a little bogus - sounds like some nonsense-speak to me. Everyone who has ever paid attention to the bonus information on this website knows that when people say "market" they are talking about NYC market. Outside of NYC it varies - some match the NYC numbers, some don't, but there are no other discernable "markets" for bonuses at this point, especially for a national firm. Its too nebulous to say that a firm pays "market, but not NYC market" - don't kid yourself. That doesn't mean anything, DB.

MWE was silent on bonuses today...

To all of you JDs who didnt know their bonus structure (and by that I mean "no bonus" outside of NYC) going in-do your homework and stop complaining. It is well known that JD genearlly does not pay bonuses outside of NYC, yet people keep going there - lots and lots of people. There must be something . . . .

It doesn't sound like Sidley is hosing anyone. From what I hear their "policy" (read: message) is pretty clear: at 2000 hrs you get what seems to be more or less a market bonus, and they'll consider giving you more for "extraordinary" efforts. Do they have to spell it out for you in giant letters?? They are telling you to bill 2000. And nothing more.

Any sucker who bills way over 2000 in the hope that they'll get a little extra $ has no right to complain if the firm's discretionary system didn't pan out for them. Now if you were forced to bill that much, and got the same bonus, I'll admit that sucks. But otherwise, don't complain when you can't even play a simple game that your firm has told you how to win.

Lat,

Can you put up some kind of chart that depicts total compensation by years for all the firms in the 1.7/1.8M PPP club (or pick your cut off, maybe it's a little lower) so that 2Ls and 3Ls can see what their fortunes would be like at the best shops going forward?

After all, it's pretty clear that the bonus patterns we're seeing here represent market segmentation. Sure, when the next round of raises hits the disparities will be even starker. But it's already possible to identify the real big dogs and call out the smaller players.

Thanks.

Yours truly,l

Aunt Jerimiah

2:49 - you're the douche bag. There can be multiple markets. You can call one "market" and the other "NYC market," each having their own meaning. So a firm can very well pay "market," if this market is defined as anything less than what NY is paying, whatever that may be, depending on any other submarkets that may exist and the NYC market, which is characterized by the numbers we know and love.

So get over yourself, or at least remove that stick up your butt.

5:11 -

Fully agree. If you go to JD DC and didn't know they don't pay bonuses outside of NYC, its your own fault.

If it is that big of an issue, transfer to the NY office, work a year and bill your hours, and you can get regular + special.

In fact, they pay some stars above market salaries in NY.

For anyone who thinks the Vault rankings are still valid, how prestigious do some of the firms discussed here (MoFo, Jones Day, McDermott) look in comparison to some of the firms ranked below them, that are paying market bonuses?

Dear 2:49/5:01. First, thank you for pointing out to me my own "Bingham Ass" joke, but I got it when I wrote it. Second, just because people who say "market" on ATL mean NYC market doesn't mean that, in the real world of real lawyers, there aren't multiple markets.

5:26 --

I believe the problem at JD DC is not so much that you will not receive a bonus (which everybody knows) but the notion fed to some potential incomers that compensation will "even out" because JD does not do lock-step comp and you can therefore end up being paid "above market." This may be the case for some, but does not appear to be the case generally.

Thanks Bingham Ass for the explanation. So tell me, oh wise Ass, what exactly is the "market" today for L.A., S.F.. D.C., Boston, etc? I didn't know it was so well established in the secret "real world of real lawyers" Also, please explain to me how the "market" for all of these other cities (in Bingham's case) is exactly the same? Remarkable, really....

Anyway, my point is at this time I don't think its clear that there is anything resembling any singular "market" outside of NYC. Its too vague to be defined. There's the NYC market and then there's everything else. If you don't like the word "market", call it whatever the fuck you want.

god, this argument is really stupid. I'm done with it. See ya, douchebags!

Increasing base salary and reducing the bonus provides an incentive to slack off. Salary should be lower and bonuses should be larger in order to make associates more productive.

There is an exceptionally high level of douchebaggery in here today.

Boston market is now officially NYC market. Ropes is telling senior associates (6th year associates) that it will pay $50k special and $60k bonus. What will Goodwin do?

Ropes isn't a true match. If you don't make 1900 you don't get the special and they're knocking 5-10k off the regular. They started notifying people individually today. Unclear what is needed to get the special. Still a pretty good deal for billing under 1900, but surprising since Ropes has always said they're lockstep with no minimums for the first two years (plus stub).

Will people leave JD DC because of this? I don't understand why JD behave in such an inept manner in the office where the Firm-wide managing partner is located.

Okay, it's a little skimpy around the edges, but Ropes sounds like a pretty true match to me. So now what will the rest of Boston do?

Undeniable truths:

(1) All of you posting are douchebags.
(2) All of you reading the posts of douchebags makes you a couchebag.
(3) When you make partner, you can make all the bonus decisions you want. At this point, you have no power, and complaining does not equate to advocating change. Even transactional lawyers should understand this.
(4) This thread is gay.
(5) YOU GET WHAT YOU GET AND YOU DON'T GET UPSET!

Galiion Out!

5:11 - it is not true that JD pays no bonuses outside of NY. I know for a fact they pay them in SF/SV, and close to market.

any info on gibson?

As a disinterested observer just looking at this thread now, it is very clear that 2:49/5:01/5:50 got the better of that argument. If there's a "market" in SF other than "sucks," I'd like to know what it is.

Kaye Scholer is giving out special bonuses based on hours requirement. Unfortunately this hours requirement will not be disclosed until January. If rumors are correct, it will be at 2200 hours and over 1/2 of associates will NOT get it.

We all knew what we were getting into when we signed up for KS, but the lack of information (i.e. hours requirement) is inexcusable.

so - Bingham does pay market in NYC?

does market mean 35k first year scale + special bonus or 35K first year scale and no special bonus?

6:42, Bingham has not yet announced its bonuses in NYC or anywhere else. In years past, it has matched in NYC, but the special bonus may be too much. I'd guess for your scenario that it will match the 35k first year scale and some smaller special bonus for NYC associates.

6:39 - if you're disinterested, and willing to take the time to read through these posts of gobbledy-gook, you must be a real LOSER. And if you haven't been told the undeniable truth, your opinion doesn't count for shit, so it certainly is NOT clear that DBs 2:49 et al. got the better of anything.

YOU GET WHAT YOU GET AND YOU DON'T GET UPSET. IN THIS CASE YOU GOT PWNED!

Go back to being a disinterested loser observer.

Could be worse, you could all be working for Fish & Richardson. I'm starting there in the fall (I took their stupid offer before the pay cuts). It doesn't affect me at all (except for the fact that i'll likely get a 0 bonus at 2000 hours). I'm going to leave as soon as I can. My time as a summer associate wasn't even that good, and i'm sure Fish works just as many hours (if not more). #1 Patent firm my ass.

JD Chicago?!

Dear 2:49/5:01/5:50,
Of course "at this time" there's no defined market outside of NYC. Duh, NYC establishes its market first. Firms in LA, SF, DC, Boston, ect. haven't yet made their bonus announcements. When they do, competing firms will match to stay competitive. Voila, a market! Bingham's policy is to always match that market, just like your policy is to be retarded.

6:54 - Fish prides itslef on being the "go to" patent firm. Many big firms have beefed up their IP practices and will thump on Fish any day for a litigation matter. If you want to draft patents, well, I suppose Fish could be a decent place if you want to feel down about yourself and your life's decisions every day. But you have a good outlook on life:

YOU GET WHAT YOU GET AND YOU DON'T GET UPSET. IN THIS CASE YOU GOT PWNED! In this case, pwned by your stupid decisions and Fish & Richardson. Might as well strap on the ball and chain and a pair if you want to survive your first year.

Skadden, S&C, W&C, Weil, K&L Gates, Preston, and everyone and their mother.....

to 180K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Boston market to 3 drumsticks with a side of baked beans!

MWE -- any word? SV? DC? Anywhere???

Fish people, take hope!

Rumor is, there'll be another "compensation change" soon. After the last one, I'd rather they just left things alone so that we can get back to work (and the work is admittedly very good - worth some pay difference IMO). I have no confidence they'll fix anything with this next change and just screw things up even more.

Still, like a shmuck, I sit here and hope they'll bring my salary back to market - and that all our summers and new associates won't leave the moment they get the chance.

I'm such a douchebag.

MWE california here - nothing as of 4:30 pacific time. They did say the announcement would be "on or about" the 18th, however.

Man--I sure am glad I went in-house.

Debevoise NY bonus + special bonus min-max is $45K - $115K. Not bad.

Debevoise NY bonus + special bonus min-max is $45K - $115K. Not bad.

MoFo NY holiday party is tomorrow night. Bonuses tomorrow announced tomorrow afternoon?

What I don't get about Jones Day DC is not that they do not pay bonuses it is that their office is by Union Station -- basically convenient for no one except those taking VRE and MARC -- and that they require suits every day. Those would be more annoying to me than the lack of a bonus.

MWE just announced-

Christmas is canceled (for interfering with PPP)

I went a little light in this morning's session, so I pressed a few hundred pounds after the end of a long day. Time to hit the showers now and do it all over again tomorrow!

What's happening at OMM outside of NY. Any news?

Bingham Ass - Man, I am impressed if your firm is so progressive it lets an "Ass" like you set their "policy." Really, that is something. I'm so glad that we have an "Ass" like you to represent firm management on this board and tell us about your firm "policy."

I just hope they aren't setting their 2007 bonus "policy" without your valuable input.

9:34 - yes you ass. A Ca/DC memo was released around 5:30pm.

Of course, I read all this hoping for more ching in my pocket, but folks, let's wake up! Complaints about special bonuses not being paid when you don't make 1900 hours? Are you people on acid or what? If you have worked at any top tier firm, 1900 is a vacation. Special bonuses are aplus, and if its $1000 only it's better than nothing, it's better than last year. Our salaries are sick. You have to be born with a silver spoon up your butt to cpmplain in the least bit about what we're getting paid. I'm senior, when I started, at a top tier firm, my starting salary was a little more than my annual bonus now. I just don't get it. Has anyone thought about how all this pay hike movement might result in a bcaklash? Does anyone remember Testa? they paid more than all in 2000, I think they even matched 401k, and a year later they dumped associates and blew up. Part market, part internal politics/structure, but let's just say I hope I'm partner before the next backlash hits, because at this rate it's gotta come. If you actually believe you are worth the money you make, you are deluding yourself, we are very lucky in our profession, to be at the top of our profession and get overpaid for it. Take it and be happy. No wonder we as a profession have such a bad public image.

9:42, what's the news?

as mentioned in a prior post, Proskauer Boston matched NY market.

6:58- you must have no idea whats going on. Fish & Richardson would definitely not get thumped by any GP firm practicing IP. I can only name a few on par with it. Certainly Kirkland and Irell are very good (maybe/probably better), but beyond that I can't name any GP firms in the neighborhood as F&R. In fact, I dare you to name one outside of those two on par with F&R. Also, remember that F&R "thumped on" Kirkland on the "biggest patent case to ever go to verdict" recently. To say that they don't have good patent litigators is ridiculous.

Besides, if you knew anything F&R had a history of paying more than market for the longest time. When cravath and sullivan were at 125k, F&R was at 135 for all of its offices (with larger bonuses too). That said, F&R are screwing their associates since their revenue per lawyer in line with the V20. Partners are just greedy there I suppose. Its not any associate's or summer's fault. Its the partners. If you don't bitch about it nothing will change.

So, it looks like $10k - $50k (depending on the class year) is enough for the NYC firms (and few others) to separate themselves for the rest. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the matching firms upped salaries by special bonus amounts early next year and establish a top tier.

If the national firms or other regional "leaders" can't keep up with the special bonus in every market, they won't be able to keep up with a salary bump. And the NYC based firms will finally get the separation they've been looking for.

According to law.com today we're all poor anyway. Start a hedge fund if you're so keen on more money.

9:45, I can only hope that you have never actually been employed by any decent law firm. Your writing is atrocious. Seriously: "I'm senior, when I started, at a top tier firm, my starting salary was a little more than my annual bonus now." Please inform yourself of proper comma usage (among other things) before you ever file another paper with a court. Thanks.

All--

WHAT HAPPENED WITH MWE-DC? WERE'NT THEY GONNA ANNOUNCE BONUS TODAY?

MONEY-HUNGRY MWE-DC ASSOCIATE 2B

I believe Testa's demise had more to do with riding the tech bubble and the unfortunate death of a unique rainmaking and founding partner than with associate salaries. They limped along for a few years after the bubble burst, but that was the source I think.

Also, if you're worried about things blowing up, you should've stayed at your top-tier firm. You'd likely be btter insulated from market turmoil and salary wars than you currently seem.

Ropes Boston is not a true match. I know of several class of 2005 who billed approximately 2100 hours, and got no special bonus. Overall comp is nothing to sneeze at, but it does seem unfair that a Ropes NY associate gets the special bonus just for hitting 1900.

Dear MWE-DC 2B,

If you are interested in what happened/will happen at McDermott, please read the relevant exerpt from a memo posted at 2:44 pm by MWE Partner, instructing that all associates
"Remove trousers, grab ankles, and prepare to receive your annual bonus."

Sincerely,
Cruising Along with a Market-Bonus

Is it true that the class bonus for OMM class of 2000 outside of NY is 45k? Is it also true that no special bonus will be paid by OMM outside of NY?

JD Chicago is currently in its review stage. It is typically done in December. As usual, there will probably not be a step bonus system in the Chicago office. Bonuses will be dished out to quality associates at a level that is comparable to other big Chicago offices, excluding Kirkland.

Talking about bonuses is a big no-no, so you may not get a strong idea of what is being paid in the office. Some will do well; others will do not so well. Also, it is not based solely off of hours.

Anyone know about Ropes Boston classes of 2002, 2003 and 2004? Did everyone get "special bonuses" or subject to hours requirement?

LOL!!!! -- self-glorified paras correcting my grammar on a blog!! Not about to debate that point, fairly comfortable with the circles I write and argue around adversaries in court in every day. Look, I worked 6 years at what most would consider a top 10 firm (ranked 1 most of the time) and left because the city was too far removed from family (oh yes, I would choose family over superficial prestige) landed at a "2d tier" firm in a backwater market where I dare say, cost of living adjusted, I make more than virtually anyone in the country my year. That was not even intentional. I took the job because it offered the practice I wanted with the lifestyle my family needed. I'd do it for half the salary, because I actually like what I do, it's not just about the money. I don't whore myself out like that, there are more important things in life. Is money important? Of course, I wouldn't be on here if it wasn't, but don't you think the focus might be better directed at how damn lucky we are? How many of the folks crying about hours adjustments to the "special bonus" brought in a single piece of business for their firm in the last year? Sorry, but the fact is we're fairly fungible from the firm's perspective until we can make the pie grow, a special bonus -- a bonus on top of a bonus -- is a gift that we should say "thanks" for and then shut up and get back to work.

True points about Testa, but that was just one firm tanking all the way, at the same time, there were many, many firms that were laying off. And by the way, that included the top tier firms (including mine) that one might think are insulated from market fluctuation -- and guess what, the folks that lost their jobs were the same brand of whiners who complain about making a pathetic 1900 hour benchmark.

Sorry for pissin on the parade, but I really worry about newbies coming into this profession and focusing on nothing but money without seeing the bigger picture. If you want to succeed financially in this business, stop worrying so much about what your firm pays you, and start worrying about how you can make money for your firm.

Another disappointed Jones Day DC associate here. TTT Firm. The norm in DC is some kind of bonus, it is unforgivable that they do not pay bonuses--when was the last time that the partners didn't make budget??? Exactly.

They (and any firm, really) should be absolutely ashamed if people leave because of money. Ashamed. The only conclusion is that they think associates are just cogs. Dime a dozen and worth nothing to them.

DO NOT GO TO WORK FOR THEM. I feel the need to scream it from the mountain tops because I was fooled by the following lies that I was told during the interview process: (1) There are no set rules on compensation, everything is merit based, (2) We pay good associates above market rates, (3) How can a firm operate in a competitve field and not pay competetive salaries?...when you are being fed lines like these---from firm leaders---what are you supposed to believe? Nine times out of ten, you believe the firm leaders.

Well, an excellent review and nearly 2400 hours got me diddly fucking squat. My bonus was a big shit sandwich at the holiday party that was held inside the firm's offices. On a Thursday. No spouses allowed.

I will start interviewing after the holidays, and I hope others will too. And I truly hope that law students think long and hard before coming here. You're passing up, literally, 100s of thousands of dollars. Those student loans could be gone, or that down payment could be yours.

If no one does anything, the Jones Day terrorists have won.

1:30 - any more info re: Jones Day's bonus this year? did Everyone who billed 2000 get the regular + special, or were there other factors?

at king & spalding ny, associates don't even wait till next feb to receive the bonuses, then leave. look at the exodus in the past few months.

6:10, author of the precious comment, "(4) this thread is gay," you might want to think twice before using that word in that manner when considering (a) the identity of the author of this blog and (b) that this is the year 2007. Then again, anyone who would write something like that is probably incapable of thinking at all.

WTF! How can JD NY give market bonus, and then JD DC give absolutely nothing?

Someone in the DC office needs to approach someone and force them to explain. The firm-wide managing partner sits in DC. Why on Earth would he let this happen. WTF.

1:05 -- what year are you?

Should I be expecting a bonus in JD Chicago? Or, should I be expecting the JD dick in my a$$?

"

Ropes Boston is not a true match. I know of several class of 2005 who billed approximately 2100 hours, and got no special bonus. Overall comp is nothing to sneeze at, but it does seem unfair that a Ropes NY associate gets the special bonus just for hitting 1900.

Posted by: Anonymous | December 18, 2007 10:26 PM"

The last sentence isn't actually true.

JT says JD Chicago to D*** in a Box.

5:12, I'm not so sure that's what Sidley is telling us. I know several people who hit their hours, but without substantially exceeding them, who got substantially BELOW market bonuses.

Maybe the new number for satisfactory performance at Sidley is 2100 rather than 2000? (Other than in NY, that is. Pretty funny considering that unlike "real" NY firms, they did not match outside NY. I'd say they deserve the exodus that is coming, except it's probably by design - they're trying to slim the ranks by attrition now to minimize layoffs during the downturn.)

Hey Lat - How about a chart tracking bonus announcements for the v100? we've got a lot of people talking out of their A$$ and alot of conflicting info in here.

Da Bears (10:44): "5:12, I'm not so sure that's what Sidley is telling us. I know several people who hit their hours, but without substantially exceeding them, who got substantially BELOW market bonuses."

Are you talking about SA-Chicago being substantially below NYC including special? Or substantially below the base NYC bonus? B/c, based on K&E postings here, Chicago (top of the) "market" (exc. Skadden) for 2000-2050 hours is below NYC base + special by around $5k. So Chicago "market" bonus for uner 2100 hours is LESS than NYC base+special.

I think JD Chicago compensation letters are being distributed today.

What's the word?

11:22, I meant less than the BASE bonus for NY, forget about the "special" bonus.

Confirmed: Sidley NY is NOT giving out special bonuses unless 2K hours.

11:22 - not true, at least in my case. I'm between 2000 and 2050 hours, and I'm "with class," and I got exactly NYC base + special.

12:42--Okay, but there were others on the K&E thread who claimed to get less than NYC base+special for with the class and b/t 2000 & 2100. May be a class-by-class thing.

12:33--neither is CWT, and their PPP are double Sidley's.

Da Bears--that's too bad, but it's probably about what everyone else (exc. Skadden & K&E) in Chicago is looking at as a ceiling.

I just wish that the p-ship's would be more upfront about things--few of us are so stupid as to not see through the BS. I've always thought it reasonable for NYC to have *some* add'l comp, as long as it was handled in an upfront manner--all the doublespeak from everyone this year breeds some unnecessary ill-will.

OK ... First of all, Jones Day does not pay bonuses outside of NYC except to super stars. Second, I knew that when I joined the firm and accepted it because I was told that the 2000 hour target is a "soft" target. Third, it bites when you still work the 2000 hours or are excepted to work at least that much because your practice is busy and STILL get no bonus like everyone else in BigLaw firms that bill the same amount of hours. Fourth, even if one accepts the seemingly foregone conclusion that the firm is cheap and will not pay market bonus -- I would have thought that the firm would at least match the special bonus in non-NYC offices.

It sucks big time when more junior associates in JD NY get paid more as base AND get paid regular bonus AND A FUCKING SPECIAL BONUS ... and the rest of us second class citizens in the firm get a big fat $0. The Special Bonus was developed to reward Associates for a bumper year ... if the firm pays it to NYC Associates, why not the rest of us ... Did we not contribute to the bottom line too??

I do a lot of NY office work. Now, the next time I get a call from that office, I will be eternally unavailable. Let them go find the help they need from the Associates the firm values so much.

Just thought I would get this off my chest ... and yes, I know, I can (and will) leave, and no, I will not move to NYC -- why move when there are many more firms in DC that are sensible about their compensation system.

OK ... First of all, Jones Day does not pay bonuses outside of NYC except to super stars. Second, I knew that when I joined the firm and accepted it because I was told that the 2000 hour target is a "soft" target. Third, it bites when you still work the 2000 hours or are excepted to work at least that much because your practice is busy and STILL get no bonus like everyone else in BigLaw firms that bill the same amount of hours. Fourth, even if one accepts the seemingly foregone conclusion that the firm is cheap and will not pay market bonus -- I would have thought that the firm would at least match the special bonus in non-NYC offices.

It sucks big time when more junior associates in JD NY get paid more as base AND get paid regular bonus AND A FUCKING SPECIAL BONUS ... and the rest of us second class citizens in the firm get a big fat $0. The Special Bonus was developed to reward Associates for a bumper year ... if the firm pays it to NYC Associates, why not the rest of us ... Did we not contribute to the bottom line too??

I do a lot of NY office work. Now, the next time I get a call from that office, I will be eternally unavailable. Let them go find the help they need from the Associates the firm values so much.

Just thought I would get this off my chest ... and yes, I know, I can (and will) leave, and no, I will not move to NYC -- why move when there are many more firms in DC that are sensible about their compensation system.

Another reason to be puzzled by JD: they did pay bonuses to most associates in SF/SV. It wasn't NY regular+special bonus, but was close to what is looking like market for the CA-based firms.

Doesn't make sense why JD is all over the map across their offices.

Doesn't JD realize associates will talk to others and read ATL-like sites and realize all this?

How do they expect people to react?!

Not a single soul in DC got a bonus?!

Any MWE bonus news?

Does no news = no bonuses?

Any new rumors or speculations?

Any more inside info from MWE Boston? (or Chicago?)

McDermott is supposedly notifying associates of bonuses tomorrow.

. . . or the lack thereof

After the huge Kirkland bonuses in Chicago, McDermott will be hard pressed to give the kind of shameful pittances that are described in the opening post. Unless they want to damage their reputation, piss off most of their associates, and make themselves a laughingstock. But hey - money's involved, so they've got plenty of motivation.

King & Spalding NY needs to give special bonuses to its associates. So many have left this year.

3:11 ... difficult to say because of the lack of transparency. It is also unlikely that those who receive a bonus in JD DC will advertise it. But I am comfortable saying that the norm is no bonus. Given the size of the bonus at other firms, the JD salary model is lowering morale quite a bit.

Don't get me wrong, people at the firm are nice overall ... but why would we assume that people at firms that pay well are all assholes. JD's continued insistence on a no-bonus policy in general is making greener pastures that much more attractive to quite a few JD DC Associates.

For prospective Associates, I would recommend that you think long and hard about accepting a Jones Day offer. You must be convinced that the firm offers something that no other firm offers to counter-balance lack of equitable compensation in comparison to market.

Jones Day DC associates do talk, and I can attest that morale is quite low. It is a seething under the surface, i.e., not everyone is walking around with rain clouds over their heads (how could you live like that?) but you get a few associates together in a room (hello holiday party!) and a material number are unhappy with the comp and exploring other opportunities.

BEWARE THOSE THINKING OF JOINING HERE. Hours are heavy, work-life balance blows, there is no "no asshole" rule (not to say that every partner is mean, or even a majority, but the people that are assholes are not punished or discouraged from being so), compensation is a good 30% below what you could make somewhere else, the list goes on. The work isn't even better than other places--if anything, they overstaff projects, which means that you are probably doing assignments that others have done (but for a different partner on the case), and you aren't going to get much "real" experience (depositions, etc.). And they don't even have a pro bono policy, which means that you are going to be punished by some partners when you are busy doing pro bono and getting the experience that way. It's really a no win.

I can even kind of understand wanting to give merit salaries and keep things secret, but when firm management is SO dedicated to the "no transparency / mums the word" model that firm management won't even send "thanks for your hard work" emails. They pretend like you aren't even there. ---Actually, scratch that, Brogan said "Thanks for your efforts on behalf of the firm" in the letter sent announcing the below market 2008 compensation, which also won't include a bonus. Seriously, not even a canned line like "you are what makes this firm succeed, " or "we know you've worked hard this year," no nothing! Just a big FUCK YOU!

I really do hope there is a mass exodus---maybe that is what the partners want, seeing as first years share offices. Don't know how they are going to convince associates to join and fill the new building.

If the "bonuses" announced yesterday for MWE income partners are indicative of what's to come, MWE associates should prepare themselves for some really really bad news.

Despite statements to the contrary earlier, the "asshole" factor is pretty low at Jones Day. Overall, partners are pleasant to work for (and some are even great with work WITH). The office atmosphere is generally friendly (though there are some attorneys that you simply want to bash with the closest blunt object you can find). But, truth be told, compensation leaves much to be desired. The "no bonus" policy makes no sense in a market like DC. There is much talk about paying market ... but Jones Day's compensation system seems to be in a market of its own. The only conclusion is that the firm simply wants to underpay its Associates. Given the firm's PPP numbers, I suppose I understand why, particularly given the size of Jones Day's Associate class and its implication on PPP if the firm starts paying its Associates market.

I also attest to the fact that morale is very low among Associates ... quite a few are questioning their decision to join the firm. So, for those considering joining the firm, give the decision due considering before committing.

How low, MWE income partner?

McDermott angst is at an all time high. Some younger income partners who made hours got nothing. Associates across the board got half of what was expected based on market. The sixth year getting $5000 was absolutlely true and they were not alone. This seems to be a firm-wide phenomenon. At all times, the firm has continued to state that they set compensation and bonuses based on the market. This is clearly not the case. Associates and income partners are not happy. Expect a mass exodus.

I don't know any associate at McDermott who has gotten a bonus memo yet.

I don't know any associate at McDermott who is going to get a bonus memo. Just an "end of the year compensation memo" -- easily summed up as: "thanks, chump!"

Mr. Lat,

Please set up a survey for the V50 firms, asking visitors to identify which firm hosed its associates the worst on bonuses.

Thank you.

McDermott wins that survey.

1st and 2nd years getting less than $10,000 (some much less) for 2100 billed.

Wrong, Jones Day DC earns that award. Between 2300-2400 hours = ZERO! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! I missed my own birthday party this year because of a crisis that erupted that day, and while I would say it was time well spent for the client, it is a slap in the face to me who is just one year older and no more well off. I should have just told the partner to screw himself, because, really, what would the difference have been? They can't DECREASE my salary can they? can they? Oh god, I'm dreading next year now.

Wrong, Jones Day DC earns that award. Between 2300-2400 hours = ZERO! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! I missed my own birthday party this year because of a crisis that erupted that day, and while I would say it was time well spent for the client, it is a slap in the face to me who is just one year older and no more well off. I should have just told the partner to screw himself, because, really, what would the difference have been? They can't DECREASE my salary can they? can they? Oh god, I'm dreading next year now.

As a third year, I got half the bonus I got last year for the exact same hours (2200) and reviews. So much for McDermott competing in the marketplace.

MWE bonuses are out. Wow did they screw the associates. Very low to no bonuses.

MWE bonuses are out. Wow did they screw the associates. Very low to no bonuses.

MWE bonuses are out. Wow did they screw the associates. Very low to no bonuses.

MWE bonuses posted today. In a word, miserable.

I got half the bonus I did last year at MWE and worked 300 hours more.

I think I'm the only MWE SV associate left in the office. Only secretaries and cap partners. Everyone else is too pissed off I guess...

I left as soon as possible this afternoon, so I could peruse the postings at lateral link and get my resume into shape. I'm so out of this shit firm.

IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR MWE ASSOCIATES: You would be an idiot to even try to make your hours in 2008. Leave immediately at 5 pm, refuse to work any holidays or weekends, call in sick as much as possible, and absolutely take your month long vacation. The severance package you will receive upon being asked to leave is far better than the joke bonus ($5000 vs. OMM $27000 bonus for hitting LESS) for making your hours. While you work on getting your SEVERANCE package, not your BONUS, entertain the weekly recruitment calls and if you're from a top school, you should be placed in about two weeks (of course, only after you've gone on your full vacation on MWE's dime). Forget greed and ungratefulness, the compensation committee simply has no sense whatsoever to retain bright, hardworking, and efficient associates who could have gone anywhere out of law school. I don't know a single associate(from those who just made their hours to those who busted their ass billing 2500 hours) who's next plan of action is to not pick up recruitment calls or help their friends from other top schools/firms earn a ten grand placement bonus at their new firm. Peace out McDermott - have fun with recruitment!

MWE. 2006 (doesn't really matter though as the idiots didn't consider billing rate/profits made per associate in dolling out bonuses this year), 2300 hours, worked many nights, weekends, and holidays - just over $20 grand bonus. Do not work here- with the hours you are expected to work, you can make double the bonus at any other international firm.

Here are some facts. You got zero if you did not reach 2000 billable hours, even if you got excellent reviews. Some great people were screwed this way. If you met your billables through pro bono you got something small. Some NYC associates got 18 to more than 90 in bonus. To get these bonuses, you had to bill between 2000 and 2200 or more than 2200 for the largest amounts and have very good reviews. The firm did this because they were worried about people leaving and the impact on recruiting. Bonuses in all other offices were low, with the firm taking the attitude that you got your bonus in your raise when salaries went up. Some people outside NYC got bigger bonuses but the range appears to be zero to the 30's, with many in the 5 to 15 range. This was also a bad year for promotions. Many good associates got passed over and it is expected to get worse next year.

For non-equity partners the story is also depressing. Some got nothing and many got an increase of 10 over last year. If the NYC numbers are true, some associates make more than some partners now.

Morale is just terrible. Tons of closed door discussions. Associates in Boston have demanded to talk to Don Goldman the head of compensation, and Harvey Freistad the chair, but they appear to be more worried about expanding the fiefdom than dealing with the disaster they created.

The firm is dumb. They have meetings talking about the banner year they are having but they never learned to share.
Harvey is shooting to have profits per partner at $2 million and they are doing it by dis-respecting the people that earn that money for them. No one is apologizing, no one is saying thanks for the hard work, no one is saying don't leave. It seems paranoid, but maybe they want to trim the ranks to help get profits up. They have de-equitized some older partners over the last few years. Maybe that is the next big trick to boost profits.

MWE is trying to recruit from the best schools, but why would talent go there when the firm has demanding hours, low morale, poor retention and poor pay. I heard a partner in firm management tell a lateral candidate that the firm never loses attorneys for pay reasons. This won't be true for long -if it was ever true to begin with. Like others, I will look for another job. If you work at a firm that pays a recruiting bonus when you get a friend to join, you might want to look up that alum at McDermott. They'd probably welcome the call.

Sidley (non-NY) has moved from a vaguely market bonus to a slightly below market bonus for the best performing associates and an insulting bonus for everyone else.

Anyone more senior than their fourth year is now given a merit bonus based on a ranking of A, B+, B or B-. The bonuses for associates receiving a rating A or B+ (about 15-20% of each class) is below NY Market even without the special bonus (i.e. class of 2002 with a B+ and 2350 hours received $52,000 (as opposed to $55,000 market at 2000 hours), and an '02 with an A and 2300 hours received $70,000). Things go downhill fast for anyone with a B rating which includes roughly 65% of each midlevel class. A 2003 with 2500 hours received a miserly $25,000. By way of comparison a first year billing 2000 hours receives $20,000.

The firm is basically telling all "average" midlevels that they are neither wanted nor valued.

I was so happy when I got an offer from McDermott. Now I can't wait to leave. The three years I spent here have gone from barely tolerable, to briefly enjoyable, to unrelentingly miserable. Now, to reward my long hours, late nights, lost weekends (not to mention deathly pallor and ruined physique), the firm has offered me a bonus about 75% below market.

Wow, thanks Don Goldman -- you're the best. Good management decision Harvey - piss off all the little worker bees right before Christmas; they'll probably forget all about it over the long weekend, right?

Well, here's what I see happening. For every three or four associates griping that they're going to leave, one or two will actually do so. Some will stay - staying is easier than interviewing, maybe moving, starting over. But many more than the firm expected to do so will actually leave. And the firm's drive to increase revenues 10% annually, forever, will come to a catastrophic end.

It's a good thing the firm pays all of their operating expenses out of the previous year's budget - there's going to be a fuckload less money coming in next year, when the capital partners find themselves having to actually _do_ some of the work.

Good luck with recruiting season, too. I'm sure those law students won't have heard a thing about bloody Thursday

Any laterals you expect me to interview (between now and when I take my leave next month) are going to get remarkably honest answers from me if they ask about compensation. Hope you don't disapprove of honesty.

This firm is a shit hole. No path to promotion, sub-market salaries (155 for first years, not 160 -- fun little accounting trick), abysmal bonuses, long hours, shit benefits, no perks, little collegiality, and greedy backstabbing capital partners trying to rob each other, and now the income partners and associates, too, just so they can afford a few more shiny baubles for their slutty mistresses.

Hope my colleagues that stay get lucky, and the firm makes it up to them (can't imagine how they would).

. . .

Well, I heard some people talkin’ just the other day
And they said you were gonna put me on a shelf
But let me tell you I got some news for you
And you’ll soon find out it’s true
And then you’ll have to eat your lunch all by yourself
. . .

Have all MWE associates been totally screwed, or just the ones outside of NY?

All MWE associates got screwed - NY slightly less so. but only slightly

This is just more evidence that the "discretionary" bonus is code for you're going to get screwed. That's why the traditional NY lockstep bonus system is so much better (not counting K&E of course).

Income partners with high hours (that's everyone) 0-15 K.

How could the execs at MWE be so stupid?

Lat, where's the post for MWE, so we can bitch nearer the front page, where the partners will see?

242 comments on this thread, let's get some prime time coverage!

We need a MWE-specific thread. It should be called "MWE screws income partners, associates."

We need a MWE-specific thread. It should be called "MWE screws income partners, associates."

MWE launched a pathetic 3 minute voice mail featuring Don Goldman and his convoluted, abstract reasoning as to why MWE associates got screwed. Sparing you the gory details, take it from an associate there that it made no sense. Bottom line was -- "Sorry, no/low bonuses this year for associates because we said so."

Was that voicemail only 3 minutes long? I feel like I hung in there for 20 minutes before hanging up -- and he hadn't come round to the point yet.

I did notice the less-than-subtle dig at associates. According to Don Goldman, we were less productive this year. Funny, I had more than 100 more hours billed this year. Why was my bonus chopped to a fourth of what it was last year?

MWE's position reminds me of the Soviet approach - they've determined the truth of a verifiable fact (market levels) by committee vote, instead of observation. Don Goldman's insistence to the contrary notwithstanding, bonuses of less than 10K for JD classes 2002 and 2003 are not "market-competitive."

Lat, have you contacted MWE to see what their response to these Jones Day-like bonuses is? This bonus policy is so clearly an act of greed by the partners at the expense of associates and income partners as MWE has 0 debt on the balance sheet, what should be $1 billion in revenue this year, and a PPP of over $1.5 million this year. What could they possible be thinking??

That voice message was beyond insulting.

Don't tell me that associates were less productive this year when I billed 2300 hours.

As for the ridiculous assertion that MWE might supplement bonuses in early 2008 if their understanding of "market" was too low.....who is going to stick around and wait for that impossibility?

A transcription of Harvey's damage control, with editorial comments in brackets:

This is Harvey Freishtat with a message to all of our U.S. attorneys. I want to reiterate the main point of Don Goldman's voice mail earlier today [the one Don Goldman entirely forget to mention]. Our firm is and remains committed to paying [below] market compensation to associates and income partners. If it turns out that [you continue to complain about how] we missed the market this year with respect to compensation, we'll address that issue in January by paying [an insultingly small amount of] additional compensation to [the remaining] associates and income partners. I also want to convey to our associates and income partners on behalf of our firm my appreciation for your continuing hard work and dedication this past year, both to our clients, and to our continued success as a firm. I wish you and yours and warm and wonderful holiday season and new year [but I have no intention of helping you pay for those Christmas presents. Besides, the best gifts are made from dried macaroni and construction paper, anyway. Get your kids some of that].

I don't know the average hours associates billed in other MWE offices, but I don't know any associates in
MWE's SV office that billed less than 2000, and most billed 2300 or more.

FROM AN MWE ASSOCIATE WHO GOT A MEASLEY 20,000 FOR 2300 HOURS OF BILLABLES. FIRST OF ALL, THE MWE BONUS IS NOT DISCRETIONARY- TELL ME HOW MANY HOURS AN ASSOCIATE WORKED AND I WILL TELL YOU WHAT THEIR MISERABLE BONUS WAS THIS YEAR. HARVEY/DON - THANKS FOR THE VOICEMAILS TODAY. NEXT TIME BE DIRECT WITH YOUR MOST VALUABLE RESOURCE. DON'T END BY SAYING "IF IT TURNS OUT WE ARE UNDERMARKET THIS YEAR ..." PLEASE JUST ADMIT THAT YOU KNOW YOU ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO BEING MARKET THIS YEAR. OMM, WHO I GAVE UP AN OFFER AT TO BE HERE BECAUSE I WAS REPEATEDLY ASSURED MWE WAS COMPETITIVE WITH OMM GAVE 27 GRAND TO 2006 GRADS WHO BILLED 1950 AND THEY ARE BELOW MARKET THIS YEAR! SO, UNLESS YOU PLAN ON GIVING ASSOCIATES WHO BILLED 2000 ANOTHER 20 GRAND OR SO (INSTEAD OF 5 GRAND) AND PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO WORK THEIR ASSSES OFF FOR YOU ANOTHER 20 GRAND AS WELL (NOT 2 GRAND LIKE YOU DID A COUPLE YEARS BACK) YOU ARE NOT MARKET, NEVER WILL BE COMPETITIVE WITH THE TOP FIRMS, AND ALL THE TOP SCHOOLS WHERE YOU WISH YOU COULD TELL YOUR CLIENTS ARE COMING FROM WILL KNOW THIS ASAP. FYI, WE ARE NOT JUST TALKING TO RECRUITERS AND PEERS AT TOP FIRMS, WE ARE ALSO TALKING TO ALL OUR CAREER CENTERS AND PEERS - UNLIKE MWE, WE LOOK OUT AND TAKE CARE OF OUR PEERS.

I guess the question is - to what market do the managing partners at MWE see themselves belonging? Is it that of BigLaw or is it the market of the lowest tier of firms? It seems like they're making their decision and that they would like to belong to the lowest and least prestigious group of law firms.

MWE COMMENT: Okay, Harvey and Don, since you have established that we follow the market and don't lead, averages for LA are in ... over 40 grand for meeting hours ... so let me save you some time and do the math ... another 35 grand or so for everyone who met their hours and another 35 grand or so for everyone who busted their butt billing over 2200 hours. I think that is the least MWE can do for the two suckers staying around past their month long vacation.

A bonus is a payment to the hardest working people in the firm, allowing them to share in the financial success that their efforts helped to create. MWE paid shit for bonuses, because they disrespect their income partners and associates, and don't want to share any of the success with them.

MWE is now considering paying ransom money to prevent its associates and income partners from leaving. Ransom money, while capable of buying the same amount of services and goods as bonus money, is nevertheless not the same as bonus money. Ransom money is an insurance payment against the risk of lost workers. It reflects no appreciation for our effort, no desire to share the fruit of our labor with us, and no respect for our intelligence--who's to say that next time they won't screw us over even more? They clearly don't give a shit one way or the other about us as people, or members of a team, just as "human resources."

42 associates were promoted to income partner, many of whom were only 5 years out of law school, most of the rest being 6 years out. That's pretty good. There are almost no "senior associates," so you can't compare senior-class bonuses because they're basically all income partners at MWE. The firm made a miscalculation, it sounds like they plan to fix it, seems like they're trying to make it right.

Where on earth did people get the idea that MWE would have $1 billion in revenues this year? And if the firm has no debt, that means the capital partners finance the operation until it turns profitable at some point during the year.

9:05

Of those promoted to "income partner" that I personally know, none were 5th years and none were 6th years. In fact one was a 10th year, and for billing over 2000 hours, that person got 10k. Not that many make income partners. There are numerous senior associates, ie - beyond 6th years, from which to compare bonuses with.

And as for a "miscalculation," please, we aren't chumps. More like either intentional ignorance, which isn't an excuse, or the MWE higher ups got caught with their hands in the cookie jar, are quickly back pedaling when they realized what would actually happen, and will have to pay for it not only next month, but for quite some time as they lose a large chuck of good workers and struggle to replace them.

9:05 - who is that Don Goldman himself? "seems like they are trying to make it right." Give me a break!

9:05 and 9:11 = Don Goldman and Harvey Freishtat, respectively.

We're supposed to feel grateful that the capital partners finance the firm for the first half of the year? Boo freaking hoo. I'm sure that 1.4 million average profit per parter from last year's pay check is slim consolation to those poor, downtrodden partners.

Me and my 1.5% bonus are going to fuck you over right when you have the most work riding on the line and leave for a better firm. I'm also going to anti-recruit, spread invective, and generally drag MWE's name through the mud. Then I'm going to vote early and often in the Vault survey next year, to drive the firm as far down the ranking as humanly possible. I don't care how many Starbucks' IP addresses I have to use.

MWE blows, they didn't miscalculate shit. Months ago, senior partners were responding to questions about bonuses with "the two rounds of raises were unexpected capital expenditures, room for which will have to be found in the budget; we're looking at bonuses." And we're expected to believe that this decision to recoup their expenses through short-changing income partners and associates was a "miscalculation" based on their "read of the market." Right.

9:05 - promotion to income partner at this second tier firm involves a pay cut and, not that it matters much this year, an end to bonuses. It's a meaningless title to impress clients and satisfy low-paid senior associates.

This is, after all, the same firm that increases the rate at which they bill out associates and income partners in October, but doesn't increase salaries and draws until January.

Hey MWE clients -- you're being overcharged!

9:05

Let me get this right. MWE is "trying to make this right?" Yeah right, like the 8-10th year associates who billed over 2000 and got 10-15k are gonna get close to 100k more in Jan? I'll believe it when I see it....in my rear-view mirror.

To add to the MWE strife, the firm is also skimping on bar stipends: new associates heading to the ny office are getting less than a third of what their chicago counterparts are getting. It may seem like nothing, but taken with all the bonus problems, it could indicate that MWE is going through some financial hardships this year.

3:10 - are you kidding me that new MWE NY Asses are getting 1/3 of those in Chicago for the bar stipend???? What are the Chicago Associates getting? That seems to make no sense to me as the cost of living there is lower and management has to know that the new associates in NY will find out about the difference. Pray tell.

Chicago is getting close to market, NY is getting hosed. Of course it makes no sense.

Proskaeur went "market" in NY, LA and Boston for bonuses and special bonuses but left DC (10's of) thousands less and with no special $$$

The black sheep status of the DC is still in effect ....

I wonder if any MWE income partner or associate has a crazy cousin-in-law that will kidnap Don Goldman, wrap him in a big red bow, and show him the true meaning of Christmas . . .

It worked for Chevy Chase!

Ropes did not have a full match in NYC. There were secret hours requirements and no one knows what they are.