Is Ropes prestigous?

11:29 -- YES, GAWD! The guy who graduated first in my class at Berkeley was a summer there.

Is Berkeley prestigious?

Yay for blackbox compensation schemes and the utter confusion it engenders!

Yes, look at the Vault rankings. I also think they hire annually more HLS students than any other firm.

11:30 --

but you went to berkeley.

Note the improper use of "comprise" in the first sentence of the final paragraph of the memo. Shame on Ropes & Gray!

The whole comprises the parts.

The whole is composed of the parts.

The parts compose the whole.

Is 11:29 retarded?

11:29 -- get back to outlining. You wouldn't get a callback from Ropes.

I've never heard of this firm. Is it fictitious?

what about class years senior to 2005?

11:34 -- the use of "comprise" from the memo is unusual, but acceptable. If you look up "comprise" in the dictionary, "compose" or "constitute" are definitions that usually rank at the bottom of the list.

I actually thought the same way that you did, but if you've ever done any patent law, you would see that they use this rarer meaning of "comprise" all over the place. A patent lawyer I worked with years ago told me what I'm telling you now, after I thought I was on the linguistic high ground.

@ 11:34 -

*Yawn*

Did you get the memo? Language usage evolves. "Comprise" can be (and is) used both ways.

i love all the idiots who think the entire biglaw universe consists of three firms - cravath, skadden, and watchell.

Paying "up to" the amount of the special bonus for junior associates is not the same as paying the special bonus. And why on earth did the firm decided to screw its midlevel and senior associates? These are the most profitable associates with the most opportunities to leave. They're also the hardest associates to replace (especially if you don't pay market).

Yes, Ropes is a top firm. The Boston office abounds with COA clerks and HLS magnas, although there are also some TTTs.

Lat, please automate the deletion process of these douche bags who care about grammar on this board. Even if there was a mistake in a memo, who cares??? It's not like they are filing a brief with mistakes. If you want me to write a few snippets of code I will, it really is quite easy.

Is it me, or could the Ropes memo mean (more likely than not) that Ropes will only pay special bonuses to NYC associates who meet their requirements, and that Boston and DC associates could be left out entirely?

I hope Ropes associates in all offices will post their office/hours/bonus come 12/21.

Does anyone at Wilmer know when they normally announce their bonuses to associates?

Boston is getting to be a huge embarrassment, very quickly.

@ 11:48,

Does "watchell" pay 100% bonuses like Wachtell?

On a related note... I love idiots who call others idiots for a justifiable belief that they (the others) are superior.

Can someone please tell me how much pls law associates make at the big firms like Labaton Sucharow, Lieff Cabraser, Phillips & Cohen, & Grant & Eisenhofer? Is the grass any greener over there?

Many people also write "the building which I work in is on fire," but that doesn't make it correct. In fact, I see this frequently in judicial opinions and in statutes. But that still doesn't make it correct.

i love idiots that love idiots that call others idiots for a mistaken belief that they are superior.

Things don't look so good at Ropes NY! Haha!

Is Boston a major city?

Does anyone know what bonuses Thelen is paying this year?

Why is Ropes paying below market base salary for 2nd years? 170 as opposed to 175?

Hey guys, I think 11:29 was being facetious. Get a clue.

You all are so obnoxious - "GAWD YES, Ropes has more Harvard magnas, etc."

It's REAL prestigious in Boston. If you turn them down, people look at you like a leper, even if you turn them down for a better firm.

Thelen, IIRC, is a TTT.

What is the likelihood that these individually determined and communicated bonuses for third years and above are at or exceed market?

Any word on Goodwin?

I was a harvard magna and I didn't get a callback from Ropes. So I transferred to Hofstra, because its a good school and the Career Services lady says everyone here gets good jobs in NYC.

Does Goodwin Procter usually match Ropes?

What is a "Boston"?

Goodwin will match the Ropes bonus scale exactly -- it did last year.

12:09 - I'd say it's pretty likely. Ropes typically pays lockstep bonuses to first- through third-year associates, and then it strays from the lockstep bonus system and pays higher-level associates using a "black-box" compensation scheme that is based on hours, quality of work, etc. Although the bonuses for higher-level associates are not uniform and are not published, they tend to be at least market bonuses (my friends have seemed very pleased in the past).

12:03 - market for 2nd years _is_ 170.

Look you losers, if you are in the Boston and DC offices and you bill 2400 + you will get the special bonus. If you didn't bill that much, the firm thinks you're a worthless piece of crap and will give you the "regular bonus." If you don't even bill 1900, you're lower than scum and they will tell you you were lucky to receive your 160K for the year, so go pound sand.

Wilmer already announced bonuses for NY associates.

11:29 - being facetious but law school students don't realize this and jump at the opportunity to defend R&G

11:31 - tries to help the students out by making it more obvious that 11:29 was being facetious but they don't get the hint and continue to defend R&G

12:03 - non-student gets frustrated and literally spells it out for the students

conclusion: students, good luck on your exams . . . you'll need it . . . really

not surprising about the whole blaming of not meeting hours - I think its typical. I worked at a top 5 law firm as a para right out of college back a few years back and there was a huge slow down in transactions available...I did not have enough hours and was chastised for it even though I would continuously ask for work and no one was being given new transactions...this firm PRESTIGE firm was basically insinuating to make em up...I mean how can you tell me to increase billables but also tell me there isn't any work to be given any general.

PREDICITION - The "market" special bonus paid at all the big NYC shops will eventually (by beginning of January) be regarded as "above market" once the Boston and CA based firms announce they are paying less or are attaching strings (hours, performance, etc.) like we are seeing here and will likely see from OMM. TheCravath special bonus will soon be distinguished as top of the market, rather than simply setting the market.

Just watch - the Boston and CA firms don't have the stones (or the cashflow?) to give everybody the special bonuses.

The Oracle - you've cracked the case!

NY, Boston, LA are all different markets. Who cares what happens in TTT markets like Boston and LA, as long as NY associates get their money.

12:17 is spot on. It really is so obvious who is posting what here.

First 11:51 - Wilmer associates get individual letters with their bonus announcement, usually sometime in late January (Feb at latest). They then "piece together" a bonus chart to see what's what. Notified in '08, paid in '08, screwed on taxes.

Lat -

Why are you doing Ropes like this?

Your headlining a disgruntled NY associate without counterpoint gives the impression, with which I strongly disagree, that the firm isn't busy, or worse, it is treating its associates poorly.

The claim that Ropes "over hired" in NY is absurd. We are all out over here. If my colleague is sitting on his/her hands in NY it is because he/she is not reporting availability.

It should be clear that your source's use of "some associates" should be read "I."

Boston is a real city.

12:38: Meh. There are slow groups but things slow down sometimes and people freak out, especially near bonus season. It's regular cyclical activity and it's just a good chance to go on holiday before things (eventually) heat up.

This is exactly why I chose a lockstep firm.

Many people also write "the building which I work in is on fire," but that doesn't make it correct.

You are obviously unfamiliar with the GnR (okay they were covering McCartney) song Live and Let Die...

"But in this ever changing world in which we live in
Makes you give in and cry
Say live and let die"

Sure, it's creative freedom, but the triple "in" from the first line always jumped out at me (the sentence works with any two of them removed) -- maybe that's why I went to Law School instead of becoming a headbanger roadie.

Ropes DC People: Do you get shit from the other offices? I have detected a bit of a chip on the shoulder/attitude problem from a number of people there.

Ropes NYC People: is 12:38 right? is the over-hiring in NYC a total fabrication? discuss please

ROPES IS A BOSTON FIRM.

PERIOD.

I don't get the outrage with the 1900 thing. If that 1900 can include pro bono, which is *always* available, there is absolutely no excuse for failing to meet the number, and it *is* the associate's fault.

I am amazed that all these busy and important New York lawyers have time to post multiple comments to this article throughout the day.

Does this say somewhere that the the 2007 bonus is prorated, like some of the other firms have done?

Am I missing something?

Ropes' perception of its prestige is vastly inflated. It is a Boston firm.

2:49 - it's still harder to land an offer or a gig in Ropes' NY office than it is in almost every other NY biglaw office aside from the top ten or so and it's not because its NY office is incredibly specialized (IP aside).

Ropes and Dopes

@2:28

When slow times roll around, it's hard to get pro bono work for the very reason you mention.

The truth lies between the two extremes: while there are some Ropes NY associates without work, there are those with lots of work. There are groups that are slow right so it's not true that associates are slacking. Things are getting busy again but if you're in a slow group, you might feel like crap especially if you got a bad review.

R & Dopes hires TTTs.

If "first in class" at Berkeley went to Dopes, he or she must have been a fruitcake. Happy Holidays!

Ropes is pretty lame.

all firms except W&C hire top-of-the-class students at TTTs

I am pleased to see that New York lawyers are getting big bonuses this year. Perhaps this year my friends there will, for once, NET more than me, after paying such a huge share of their income to the state, city, and county of New York

Santa -- The "first in class" Berkeley guy did not accept (I think). He's clerking for the DC Circuit. But I still think Ropes is a pretty damn good firm (at least from the alums I know who went there).

So when is Latham L.A. going to announce?!!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??

W&C = Williams & Connolly, not White & Case

3:13: Ropes = Fruitcake firm? Tell me more.

They take some TTTs in NYC, dunno about DC or Boston

Concerned Bostonian is correct. NY associates need a premium because we have to pay $5K to the CITY of New York in addition to the state of New York, and we have to cover higher rents and 8.375% sales tax. It's ridiculous, and we need to get paid more to offset these expenses.

Concerned Bostonian is correct. NY associates need a premium because we have to pay $5K to the CITY of New York in addition to the state of New York, and we have to cover higher rents and 8.375% sales tax. It's ridiculous, and we need to get paid more to offset these expenses.

"Special bonuses are paid to New York associates and to other associates whose work commitment to the firm is comparable to that of associates in New York firms." Wow. Can of worms waiting to burst open when the bonuses go out and associates start chatting. Why not just say that NY is a different market instead implying that NY associates are more committed?

What is the reputations of Ropes & Gray in New York? How good of a firm would one have to work at in NYC to lateral to RG in corporate? Isn't it supposed to be a lifestyle firm???

What is the reputations of Ropes & Gray in New York? How good of a firm would one have to work at in NYC to lateral to RG in corporate? Isn't it supposed to be a lifestyle firm???

ropes is a total toilet. all the human waste i know works there.

definitely lifestyle

I think most of the "TTTs" in the NYC office have engineering undergrads and the like. Browsing the attorneys list, it was hard to even find a Fordham attorney who didn't have a science degree.

RG goes for high TTTs over mid-levels at more prestigious schools ... odd.

I'm pretty sure all those taxes pay for the wonderful services that New Yorkers always brag about -- everything has a price, dears.

from actual experience, I would tend to agree with 5:21

also how i got in...never would have otherwise

its much harder for non-IP

from actual experience, I would tend to agree with 5:21

that's how I got in (from my "ttt")

non-IP's have it tougher

5:23 is dead wrong. Ropes cares a lot more about school pedigree than many other firms. Go read their profile on Vault if you don't believe me.

When did Ropes institute a billables goal?

This year. Haha.

sorry to break it to you guys, but new york is garbage. in boston we work less and make the same money. in fact, we make more once you account for the taxes.

like most boston associates, i'm just about done for the night. enjoy your next 4 hours of work new yorkers. keep trying to convince yourselves you're more important...the rest of us know you're just poorer.

But you have to live in Boston.

If you had to work in NYC would you rather work at R&G or Skadden?

eh, boston is decent. it's not nyc, but at least you don't have to deal with the pathetic and self-indulgent displays of ostentation, the general superficiality of most of its denizens, and the fact that manhattan has increasingly become a playground for males born to upper-middle class homes who work in finance, and girls born to upper-middle homes who teach elementary school or work in marketing/pr (and who use extra consonants attached to the end of words in online-speak and in real life). i do concede that the bagels are slightly better, though.

7:44- enjoy living in an overgrown college town filled with some of the dumbest, narrowminded, and ignorant white people the world has to offer.

also, the girls in boston over the age of 21 are atrocious

8:41 - you're right. the white people from long island, staten island, and northern new jersey are assuredly the most sophisticated, worldly, and non-materialistic caucasians this planet has ever seen. they also speak english with a non-horrendous accent that certainly doesn't make one wish to take a nose-dive into the elevator shaft when one has share the same elevator with them for forty floors.

How has this avoided straying into baseball team debates? Go Sox! Yanks suck! Wicked suck!

Hey Seriously...does anyone know anything about Ropes & Gray Corporate in New York? I've heard some different things. Does anyone actually work there who can say what it's like?

10:26- they accept the bottom of the t14 barrel. and some pretty laughable ttt grads, so they are not as prestigious as they like to make themselves out to be. But they do quality work from what I've heard, seriously.

8:49- I think the most revolting thing I've ever heard out of a white woman's mouth was a Boston Southie accent. It's the worst of Long Island, crossbred with trailer trash and italian female goons.

Ropes is a mixed bag that is trying to grow in NY but is under the total control of the Boston office. Everything is driven and controlled out of Boston even though the NY office will soon be as large as the Boston office.

10:38,
This is not really correct. RG in NYC is kind of a mixed bag that is trying to grow, but it isn't under the control of Boston. Most of the work done there is generated by the NY office. Within two years the NY office will be larger than Boston as well. They are probably the best firm in terms of PE work in New York. I've also heard that it has a fairly easy going culture.

10:36, 10:38 and 10:46 all don't know what they're talking about. getting a summer offer at ropes ny (non-IP) is about as difficult as one at a debevoise or shearman-type firm. ny ropes looks for top 10-20%, even at H/Y/NYU/C, though the Boston office will dip pretty deeply into HLS. saying they accept the bottom of the t14 barrel is absurd. check out the bio of any new corporate or lit associate in the ny office.

the ny office, despite its new digs, will never grow larger than boston. ropes PE in boston is still amongst the tops in the country, but the nyc office still generates some good mid-sized PE work, hedge fund stuff, and some healthcare/general m&a. 10:46 is an idiot (allow me to reiterate). the culture is not easy going, but it's not awful.

11:41- you confuse Ropes Boston with Ropes NYC. For some unknown reason, their Boston office attracts uniformly top-talent. Not so their NYC office, which is definitely a "mixed bag".

As for their other offices, I've only encountered their DC crew, and let's just say the few that I've met were horrid.

12:16, it is you who has no clue. Aside from V10, a Ropes offer in NYC was extremely difficult to get last year. Examining that summer class, and the current associates, show a lot of big names. If you want to demonstrate this "mixed bag" some examples would be nice.

Otherwise, here's the rough numbers for last year's NYC summers. Not everyone is from a top-tier, though a clear majority are. And the numbers from "TTT" is a lot less than I see in other classes at other NYC firms, plus the candidates from those are in the top of their class.

(I don't even necessarily agree with snobbishness in regards to schools, beating hundreds of law students who need to be tops to get out is still impressive to me).

NYU: 11
GW: 4
Harvard: 3
Wash U: 3
Columbia: 2
Northwestern: 2
Georgetown: 2
Buffalo: 2
Yale: 1
Chicago: 1
Boalt: 1
Michigan: 1
BU: 1
Fordham: 1
Conn: 1
Santa Clara: 1
Toronto: 1
McGill: 1

I don't know....What is Santa Clara? Buffalo??? I doubt Skadden has any summers in their class last year from schools like that. No way is Ropes NYC anywhere near as hard to get an offer at as a firm like Skadden (which I know isn't at tough as a place like sulcrom, but still...)

2:22,
Yeah I agree. Ropes isn't even as hard to get an offer at as places like Latham, Hunton &Williams, or Gibson NYC...Good firms, but clearly not top 20 in Ny

Off the Skadden Career Website (and this isn't even the full class, it's just 30 people of which I think about 20 are from last summer's associate class. Anyway, the 2007 summer included students from:

University of Houston
Southern Methodist University
University of Iowa
Vanderbilt University Law School
University of Notre Dame
University of North Carolina
Pepperdine University
Washington and Lee
University of Michigan
Widener University
University of Texas

Judging from the responses in this thread, I think it's safe to characterize Ropes & Gray as having well- credentialed yet incredibly insecure lawyers. Hopefully the firm's selectivity won't carry over into bonus distribution.

2:22 - The summer from Buffalo turned down Skadden to work at RGNY.

I have friends at Ropes NY, and it seems like a great place to work - easy going, respectful culture, but better hours than at other NY firms. Smart lawyers.

I hear that Ropes NY is pretty selective. I don't think it's easy to get an offer at all.

Is Ropes changing from a firm where people work less than NY associates for the same pay to a firm where people get paid less than NY associates for working the same hours?

Ropes is changing into an hours oriented firm with more pressure to bill. Ropes, before their late push into the NY market, did not have a hours requirement. Now there is much more pressure to bill and they have instituted a "goal" of 1900 hours. Not crazy by any means but before there was no hours requirement. This is a definite sign of change. This is because the partners are not making enough money. PPP are below 1 million and the partners want more leverage and hours from their associates. In terms of Ropes NY hiring they are dipping deeper into non top tier schools because of the sheer numbers problem. There is a set number of law students in the top 10 law schools and as any new player needs to expand it needs to dig around in places they never went before, i.e. lesser law schools. Also, the past comment about Ropes as the best PE shop in NY is crazy. Ropes is a player, especially with Bain and their Boston office, but NY is mainly middle market. With all that said, Ropes NY highly respectable. The other biggest players are Simpson, Debevoise and K&E. The future of Ropes NY depends on the decision making of the and the health of the IP practice which is a fading player.

Ropes is changing into an hours oriented firm with more pressure to bill. Ropes, before their late push into the NY market, did not have a hours requirement. Now there is much more pressure to bill and they have instituted a "goal" of 1900 hours. Not crazy by any means but before there was no hours requirement. This is a definite sign of change. This is because the partners are not making enough money. PPP are below 1 million and the partners want more leverage and hours from their associates. In terms of Ropes NY hiring they are dipping deeper into non top tier schools because of the sheer numbers problem. There is a set number of law students in the top 10 law schools and as any new player needs to expand it needs to dig around in places they never went before, i.e. lesser law schools. Also, the past comment about Ropes as the best PE shop in NY is crazy. Ropes is a player, especially with Bain and their Boston office, but NY is mainly middle market. With all that said, Ropes NY highly respectable. The other biggest players are Simpson, Debevoise and K&E. The future of Ropes NY depends on the decision making of Boston partners and the health of the IP practice which is a fading player.

It's called business.

The Buffalo and Santa Clara summers are LR. The HLS number was more like 5 or 6 when you count splitters.

i personally know three people going to skadden who didnt get offers at ropes ny

I might be swallowing the Kool Aid here, but I actually believe personality is a big part of the hiring process at Ropes NY. Either that, or they coincidentally end up with a high proportion of people who are very easy to get along with.

I like my co-workers at Ropes NY.

I hated most of the people that I worked with at Ropes NY. The place is an undignified sweat-shop. The partner/associate ratio approaches 5:1 in some sections. A Sunday off was the exception, not the rule.

2:45 - I'm not sure what you mean by "sections," but it looks like the A/P ratio is 2.5 or less for all the practice areas on NALP Directory.

2:45,

There are five partners for each associate at Ropes NY?

No offense, but you sound like a fourth-year associate who got fired from Ropes NY.

6:27 - he sounded more to me like someone who didn't even get a callback.

What?!?! Ropes fires people?

Everyone fires people, Einstein. There is no lawyers' union.

2:22 a.m. you are moron, Skadden also had a Buffalo summer and Wachtell has a Buffalo alum.

Current Buffalo Students summered last year or will summer this upcoming year at the following firms:

S&C
Skadden
Ropes
White & Case
Shearman
Cahill
Cadwalader

Just think that they will work at these top notch firms with all of you and have more disposable income as a result of the lower law school loans that they have to pay back

No way are there Buffalo people summering at all of those firms. Buffalo is a Tier 3 school.

That's the truth

>

Yep. There are also people who live a much better lifestyle than I because they hit the jackpot on a slot machine. It doesn't mean I should be plugging quarters in AC, and it doesn't mean gambling on being in the top 5% like they are was a wiser choice.

You all sound like a bunch of dumb-ass second years talking about educational pedigree...fucking retards -- I know second tier attorneys that would run circles around your silver spoon asses...

The reports are trickling in, and it sounds like more than a few associates did not get market bonuses. In the firm's view, there is no valid excuse for not hitting the hours minimum (let's call a spade a spade, it IS a minimum). Ropes cannot call itself lockstep anymore. I hope they will not continue to lie to those they hired as summer associates.

Many Boston associates, though, received NY market bonuses or very close to it (including the special bonus). Ropes has been significantly more generous to its associates than the other Boston firms, although point taken that it isn't completely lockstep in the first few years anymore. The special bonus for Boston associates seemed to vary based on reviews and hours - but most associates seem really pleased with their bonuses.

Seconding 11:09. My bonus at Ropes Boston rocked. Surprisingly generous.

Extraordinarily generous in Boston, giving special bonuses and also making up for NY/Boston salary difference from first part of year.

Does anyone know the range of bonuses at Ropes for associates from the class of 2003? Any info would be much appreciated.