once the market passes its peak the occasional and often exaggerated phenopmenon of signing bonuses stops. I will be astounded if anyone can give reliable info on signing bonuses paid to laterals since 10/1 of this year in any major market.

I remember reading an earlier ATL post about Quinn Emanuel paying signing bonuses to IP laterals with hard science degrees.

Is that still the case?

My colleagues who made lateral moves had their standard year end bonuses picked up by the new firms

Lat/Billy - thanks for cleaning up the comments!

But more importantly, I expect Ropes to announce its bonus on or before Friday. Any thoughts by other associates who have been left out in the cold? Will this party get started again this week?

SIXTH!

I lateralled as a senior assoc in early June couple years back. With the new firm, I negotiated a signing bonus worth 1/2 of my expected year end bonus at the old firm, + an agreement that I would recieve 1/2 of the "standard" year-end bonus at the new firm. It was not a windfall, but kept the status quo. The windfall was cashing out 20+ vacation days at the old firm!

What about clerks and year end bonuses? If one clerks for a year and joins a firm in September, does the clerk get paid the same year end bonus as everyone else? Or, does the clerk get a prorated bonus based on hours billed/time served?

It seems like a one year clerk might possibly clean up. Signing 50k, 2nd year salary 170k, and then year end bonus 40k? 90k in bonus money within three months.

I doubt that clerks would get the entire bonus.

11:03. Are you sure? Think Ropes will match the special bonuses? Hah!

Wilmer rules!

Soon 11:22, you will appreciate the error of your ways.

Very soon...

Lat,

Can we have a separate thread on retention bonuses? Many firms give senior associates they want to retain, but nonetheless won't make partner, retention bonuses as an inducement to stay. What is the market for these retention bonuses?

Ropes should be able to match the special bonuses. They had a banner year with Bain Capital et al.

Clerks = get prorated bonus.

I do know that some firms (including mine) pays clerks who work at the firm, leave to clerk, then return, the prorated bonus for the year they return to the firm, AND the prorated bonus for the year they left the firm to go clerk.

Whoooa! Bonuses! Whoooa!

I lateralled halfway through the year and got 10K signing bonus (my recruiter asked them for it).

Guys at my TTT law school used to get signing bonuses of dinner at IHOP all the time, it was no big deal.

Lat - any chance of a Vick sentencing wrapup and state trial/plea preview? Most MSM outlets are not providing a competent sentencing analysis, or discussing the celebrity justice double prosecution of Vick, which would never happen to anyone else.

Would never happen to anyone else? What are you talking about? Are there not two levels of court systems in our country? Are you completely unaware of people who have been prosecuted on both federal and state charges? Really? You're a lawyer?

11:54 - usually the state declines to prosecute a person for the same crime for which they have been prosecuted under federal action. especially so when the federal prosecution results in a plea deal. it is a concept called prosecutorial discretion, look into it.

"...celebrity justice double prosecution of Vick, which would never happen to anyone else."

Uh, how's that again? It's precisely because Vick is a celebrity that he is being prosecuted in state court as well. He's supposed to be, y'know, a role model...

11:54 - Nice post - I was particularly impressed by the combination of ignorance and preachiness - both at levels not typically displayed even in blog commentary. The USAO and DA's office nation-wide have standard policies governing double prosecution that basically preclude it absent a miscarriage of justice (read a clearly unjustified acquittal). Vick already plead guilty and was received a sentence at the top of his guideline range. Double prosecution only happens to RICO defendants or acquitted criminals. Regardless of what you think about his conduct/culpability, if he wasn't a celebrity no DA's office would waste its time/resources prosecuting him a second time for the same course of conduct.

Re. signing bonuses - based on the experience of a friend of mine, they do happen, but you have to negotiate for them before you accept the offer. A firm would be much more likely to pay a bonus if you didn't use a headhunter. (I don't know how much firms pay headhunters, but its got to be worth it to them if you spare them that fee.)

Lat - you should really do a post on lateral moves.

I used a HH who negotiated me a signing bonus with one firm. Then, other firms started to match. And, finally I got my top firm to match. However, the timing was important as well, since I started before year end bonuses. At the end of the day, I pocketed an additional 15k as a 05' grad, including matching my year end bonus I gave up.

Already noon and only the morning docket and a lousy open-thread? This blog is going downhill.

LET'S SMOKE US SOME CRACK!!!

Lat's previous pithy comments about not putting on pants until 5 PM on most days, speaks volumes about his ability to get up and get to work on Monday morning and keep up with the rest of the world.

Come on, Lat - you're spending too much time censoring comments and not enough putting out quality product. Did the Frat Stud posts really detract from this blog?

Yo, guys in my high school used to get double prosecuted for animal abuse charges all the time, it was no big deal.

Don't use a headhunter if you want to maximize your chance of a signing bonus - headhunters charge a hefty fee.

lazy lazy lat

Vik got the top of the sentencing guidelines?!? The MSM said he got 23 months and the max was 5 years.

Latty boy, this blog is perceptibly slipping - if you couldn't already tell from most of the comments here. If we stop visiting this blog, you advertising revenue will decrease and you will really miss Wachtell...

12:43 -- the statutory max was 5 years. the guidelines range was 12-18 months.

When I moved from New York back to Ohio as a 5th year associate, I got a $12K signing bonus, plus a moving bonus (that was much more than it actually costs to move), and a guaranteed $15K bonus after a year (which is sadly decent in a smaller market).

Of course, that's not really a lateral move in the sense most of you are talking about (I took a $70K+ pay cut), but just thought I'd add that info to the coversation.

Lat, do an exclusive 3L thread: firm gifts; practice groups (i.e. whether they've been assigned, have the past few months changed anything, etc.); bar prep fees, moving expenses, etc.; finding motivation during finals, etc.

We know the 2L's are getting gifts, and they have the BEST (working) summer of their lives to look forward to. Associates, though toiling away, have bonuses and lateral moves happening. We 3L's are out in the woods.

The reason he got 23 was because the judge found that Vick had not accepted responsibility, which increased his guidelines range from the 12-18 months the prosecution originally recomended to 18-24 months. Typically defendants who plead guilty are given a 2 level acceptance of responsibility decrease. It is somewhat unusual for someone to plead guilty and then be found to have not accepted responsibility. MSM coverage of the sentencing has been pretty crappy, because they generally talk about the 5 year statutory max, while ignoring the guidelines.

right, 12:53, and we are also free to criticize the sudden disappearance of frat stud, ninja/pirate, and other silly comments and hopefully not get deleted or banhammered in the process.

This blog is now as fun to read as a circa-1950 Pacific Reporter...

If I'm looking to leave government and take a firm job in another state, can I negotiate bar taking costs and moving costs? Or would I be better off negotiating a signing bonus and using that to offset those costs? I'm guessing I'd look ridiculously greedy if I asked for both.

1:35/1:36, you don't count as 10 people just because you're big-headed (and possibly fat).

Lol @ Frat Stud posting twenty times about how "boring" the blog is now. Go spam xoxo and leave the grownups alone.

Keep censoring. Otherwise it's just spamapalooza.

to fse77:
If you lateral to a firm from the gov't you should be given relo assistance and bar taking costs, and would not appear greedy for asking for or accepting it. However, don't bank on a signing bonus on top.

Lateral bonuses are mostly tied to the time of year you're making a move, and to the practice group in question. Junior attorney's have been getting around $15,000 lately, but not all firms feel the need to give them

The "grownups" are the only ones who should be allowed to frequent a self-described "legal tabloid"? If the comments are all supposed to be serious and on-topic, the whole blog is being mis-advertised.

2:12: I'm not fse77, but am in the same boat, thanks for the post. Any advice as to whether this is a good/bad time of year to lateral? After reading some of the lateral posts last week, I got the feeling that many attorneys wait until Feb. to lateral (after they receive bonuses). Since gov't work knows no bonuses, I am looking to move asap - is this a good time to apply as a lateral?

If you practice for a year or two and then clerk, can you get a signing bonus in addition to the clerkship bonus when you start at a new firm?

2:48-

i think how it works is, the posts are supposed to be gossipy and shallow (and apparently not verified for truth), but the comments are supposed to reflect deep thinking and serious discussion of those fluff topics.

2:20:

I wish that Lat would delete double posts too, since they are usually caused by computer glitches, and not by the poster.

It has been over a week now - has anyone received any information regarding what about King & Spaulding do?

People . . . who censor people . . . are the LUCKIESSSSST people in the WORLLLLLLLLLD!

For every 10 people who read this, there are 10 people who read this.

3:28 Good question. I received a post-clerkship offer at a law firm where they tried to say they are giving me a "clerkship bonus" when they really just gave me the same amount as their standard signing bonus (and they did not separately offer me a signing bonus). I know this firm is in a TTT market, but is this normal/acceptable?

My experience: You get a clerkship bonus, not a signing bonus (and not both). And, think it is pretty standard to get the pro rata bonus for the year in which you return.

My firm does not give pro rata bonuses for pre-clerkship work (e.g., you work, then clerk, then come back to the firm). A huge bummer, to be sure, especially for those who start clerking in the fall term (and have completed a stub year plus 9 months of work in a FY). I've heard of firms that do give the pro rata bonus (see 11:35), but don't know which ones.

by this time next year starting bonuses will be ancient history, layoffs will be widespread, and 50 AMLAW 100 firms will have backed off from the recent spate of salary increases. remember you read it here first.

by this time next year starting bonuses will be ancient history, layoffs will be widespread, and 50 AMLAW 100 firms will have backed off from the recent spate of salary increases. remember you read it here first.

I lateraled this summer to New York. I had two offers. One firm offered me a 10k signing bonus and half the standard year end bonus even though I would be starting in August. The other firm offered me only half the year end bonus, and only if I were able to start by August 1st. I chose the second firm, and declined their bonus offer to start in late September. 2 months of pure vacation was worth way more than the the dollar amounts.

This is 12:26. I also got the standard suite of moving expenses, house hunting trip, and bar expenses / time off included as well.