Nationwide Pay Raise Watch: Alston & Bird Raises
In some legal markets, including much of the West Coast, the talk these days is about associate bonuses. But in other locales, the January 2007 increase in base salaries is still rippling through the large law firms.
We've just learned that Alston & Bird has matched King & Spalding's Atlanta base salaries. But A&B but did not match the K&S bonus levels -- the lion's share of the K&S raise.
Neither Alston & Bird nor King & Spalding, nor any other Atlanta firm, is on a "true" $160K scale (as defined by Simpson Thacher). In fact, a seventh-year at Alston & Bird will earn less in 2008 base salary ($195,000) than a class of 2006 first-year at a New York firm will earn in 2007, counting year-end and special bonuses ($205,000).
But at least things in the Big Peach are moving in the right direction -- albeit incrementally. Check out the memo, after the jump.
You may recall that the pay scale that Alston & Bird announced on August 1, 2007, to take effect on January 1, 2008, was generally not well-received. The scale they just announced supersedes the August 1 scale.
ALSTON & BIRD -- MEMORANDUM -- ASSOCIATE PAY RAISE
I am pleased to announce that the Partners Committee has approved a new associate salary scale in the Atlanta office, effective January 1, 2008, as follows:
Compensation Class Annual Base Salary
Stub Year $145,000
1st year $145,000
2nd year $150,000
3rd year $155,000
4th year $162,000
5th year $172,000
6th year $185,000
7th year $195,000
Please note that this replaces the salary scale we announced on August 1, 2007.
Our bonus policy for associates remains unchanged. We will continue to provide an hours-based bonus payable to associates beginning at the 1,900 billable hour level (which includes up to 50 pro bono hours, as has been our practice) and we will continue our Extraordinary Contribution bonus policy as well. (Our Associate Bonus Policy is set forth in the Attorney Manual.)
Please feel free to contact me or Liz Price if you have questions. We thank you for your continued hard work and your important contribution to Alston & Bird's success.
(103) Comments
1
first
wahooo...I think
What about Powell Goldstein?
50K behind a comparable 4th year in DC
That's pathetic.
Old
1 $145,000
2 $150,000
3 $155,000
4 $160,000
5 $170,000
6 $180,000
7 $190,000
New
1st year $145,000
2nd year $150,000
3rd year $155,000
4th year $162,000
5th year $172,000
6th year $185,000
7th year $195,000
That's nothing short of pathetic. An extra 2k for a 4th year? They needn't have bothered.
OMGthatissuchalowsalaryespeciallywhenyoucountthebonusthatnyassociatesget.
3:42 clearly illustrates the point...great, $2K in years 4 and 5 and $5K in years 6 and 7. So baiscally after taxes they're raising $1000 and $2500 respectively for the mid levels and senior associates. This is complete crap. The bonus structure at A&B is pathetic, they would have been better off matching exactly what K&S does. Now the pateners are just embarassing themselves.
yeahbutthecostoflivinginatlantaislikewaylowerthanthecostoflivinginnyihavea4bedroomhouseinaawesomeareaofatlantaandionlywork4hoursadayandgettoseemywifeontheweekends.
yeahbuttheCOLinnewyorkiscrazyispend40,000permonthonastudioapartmentwithnowindowsandbesidesnypeoplearecoolerandworkonmoreimportantermatterssotheydeservetomakemoremoney.
soit'syourchoicetoworkinNYyouremployershouldn'thavetosubsidizeyourchoiceoflocaleimeanyou'rejustdoingdocreviewthesameasanyotherassociatesoidon'tseewhyNYassociateshouldgetpaidanymorethanothercitiesanddon'ttellmethatyouneedtospend40,000gajilliondollarsonanapartmentthat'scrazy.
The first stage is complete! To many the test is a joke, but it still can have you worried that you have to retake it after finishing it. I passed with flying colors thank goodness. :)
A&B's management of this raise has been laughable from start to finish. If they weren't going to even come close to K&S' bonuses, why bother to match the base salaries?
Anyone who was going decide between the two firms based on money is not going to pick A&B because they threw another 2 grand per year at 4th and 5th year bases, and another $5k at senior associates. Here's the differences in total 2008 comp for a 7th year who bills 2100 (the max threshold under the A&B plan):
7th year who bills 2100 hours:
Max bonus @ A&B = $19,500
Minimum bonus @ K&S = $34,500
Likely bonus @ K&S = $47,000.
Note also that the A&B 7th year is topped out at 2100 hours. If he gets stuck on a trial, etc., and bills 2300, he still gets the same $19,500 bonus. The K&S 7th year, however, would add another $18,000 to his bonus by hitting 2300 hours.
3:55 -- it's not just about money now. A&B has so poorly managed this whole raise/bonus issue that I have serious doubts that these folks can manage their way around an increasingly competitive market place. At least K&S has tried to address compression and growing spread with other cities through a creative bonus program. A&B looks like a bunch of fools.
This is hilarious! Atlanta is such a joke.
Maybe it's just a simple reflection of the marketplace to begin with. K&S has rising PPP and A&B's PPP has basically been stagnant for several years. The popular notion that the two firms are on roughly equal footing is revealing itself to be untrue. Simply stated, K&S has a lot more $ and can afford to pay more.
Can someone comment on the mood / work / lack thereof at A&B Charlotte?
DoD Announces Increase in Death Gratuity
http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=8647
The Department of Defense announced today a significant increase in the death gratuity for the survivors of service members killed in action and the Servicemembers Group Life Insurance (SGLI) coverage for service members deployed to designated combat zones.
The Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Act for Defense, the Global War on Terror and Tsunami Relief Act 2005 (Public Law 109-13) increases this immediate cash payment from $12,420 to $100,000 for survivors of those whose death is as a result of hostile actions and occurred in a designated combat operation or combat zone or while training for combat or performing hazardous duty.
In fact, A&B's comp. is now behind Sutherland because of the crappy bonus program. At Sutherland, a 7th year billing only 1950 gets a $30K bonus. Not as much upside for a Sutherland bonus as at K&S, but much better than A&B's lousy numbers. Why would anyone with a brain continue to pick A&B over other firms in Atlanta?
what is the general bonus structure for A&B/K&S?
What are the bonuses for COA clerks?
4:16 -- lat has a link in the A&B article to the K&S announcement earlier this year. See http://www.abovethelaw.com/2007/10/nationwide_pay_raise_watch_kin_2.php
MPRE scores are out
4:19 - thanks. that's too bad for me; i intended to move to atlanta after a few years in nyc, but at this point i just can't. according to that memo, as a fourth year THIS YEAR i would've made less than 184.5k-197k (because that scale goes into effect 1/1/2008) while i made just a shade under 300k here. i can't justify taking a 100k+ hit at this point.
the COL argument may make sense for junior associates, but as you gain more seniority in nyc the pay disparity is simply too great.
Did you know that the chairmen of K&S and A+B are brothers? I sense some collusion to keep salaries down.
4:31 -- Hmm, do you think this is the only market in which the firms seem to set base salaries at the same level? In fact, Atlanta is unlike other cities in that the bonus structures do vary widely. In NYC, in case you have missed it, everyone is setting the same bonus.
NYC Bonus List of Shame
2008 Vault Rank
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8 Latham & Watkins LLP
9
10
*11 Kirkland & Ellis LLP (Punted)
12
13
14
15
16 Williams & Connolly LLP
17
18 Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP
19 O'Melveny & Myers LLP
20
21 Arnold & Porter LLP
22 Jones Day
23 Morrison & Foerster LLP
24
25
*26 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft (Punted)
27 Hogan & Hartson LLP
28 Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP
29
30 Ropes & Gray LLP
31 Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker
32
33 Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP
34 Winston & Strawn LLP
35
36 Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati
37
38 Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe
39
40
41 King and Spalding
*42 Morgan, Lewis & Bockius (Punted)
43
44 Baker & McKenzie
45 Baker Botts LLP
46 Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP
47 Munger, Tolles & Olson LLP
48 Dechert LLP
49 Irell & Manella LLP
*50 McDermott, Will & Emery (Punted)
51 Jenner & Block LLP
52
53
54 DLA Piper
55
56 Fish & Richardson P.C. (Failed to Match)
57 Fulbright & Jaworski LLP (Failed to Match, No NY numbers yet)
58 Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP
59 Goodwin Procter LLP
60 Cooley Godward LLP
61 Alston & Bird (Failed to Match)
62 Heller Ehrman
63 Vinson & Elkins
64 Bingham McCutchen
65 Sonnenschein Nath
66 Greenberg Traurig
67
68 Holland & Knight
69 Steptoe & Johnson
70 Foley & Lardner
71 Kirkpatrick & Lockhart
72 Chadbourne & Parke
73 Hunton & Williams
74 Nixon Peabody
75 Thacher Proffitt
76 Bryan Cave
77
78 Perkins Coie
79 Stroock & Stroock & Lavan
80 Patton Boggs
81 Howrey
82 Reed Smith
83 Crowell & Moring
84 McGuireWoods
85
86 Arent Fox
87 Katten Muchin Rosenman
88 Finnegan, Henderson
89
90 Thelen Reid & Priest
91 Baker & Hostetler
92
93 Venable
94 Squire, Sanders & Dempsey
95 Kelley Drye & Warren
96 Dickstein Shapiro
97 Fenwick & West
98 Kilpatrick Stockton
99
100 Manatt, Phelps & Phillips
NR. McKee Nelson (Failed to Match)
NR. Hughes Hubbard (Failed to Match)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BONUS STATUS BY 2006 RPL
Rank 2006 in revenue
by revenue Revenue per lawyer
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Wachtell ABOVE MARKET $2,455,000 2.5%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Sullivan & Cromwell MARKET & ABOVE MARKET FOR SENIOR ASSOC. $1,565,000 1.3%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 Wiley Rein $1,520,000 162.1%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 Cravath MARKET $1,355,000 5.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 Davis Polk MARKET $1,200,000 4.8%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 Simpson Thacher-MARKET $1,200,000 6.7%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7 McKee Nelson BELOW MARKET $1,190,000 1.7%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8 Milbank, Tweed MARKET $1,110,000 10.4%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9 Skadden MARKET $1,095,000 10.1%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10 Cahill Gordon MARKET $1,075,000 8.6%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11 Fragomen, Del Rey $1,070,000 26.6%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12 Gibson, Dunn $1,050,000 4.0%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12 Irell & Manella $1,050,000 9.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
14 Kirkland & Ellis PUNTED $1,035,000 5.1%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
14 Paul, Weiss MARKET $1,035,000 0.5%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
16 Munger, Tolles $1,025,000 18.5%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
17 Quinn Emanuel $1,020,000 28.3% SLIGHTLY ABOVE MARKET BUT PARTIALLY DEFERRED
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
18 Shearman & Sterling MARKET $1,010,000 2.0%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
19 Debevoise & Plimpton MARKET $1,005,000 8.6%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20 Cadwalader BONUS ANNOUNCED, NO $ FIGURES $1,000,000 6.4%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
21 Boies, Schiller $980,000 3.2%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
21 Weil, Gotshal MARKET $980,000 2.6%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
23 Cleary Gottlieb MARKET $975,000 7.1%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
24 Willkie Farr MARKET $970,000 12.8%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25 Williams & Connolly $955,000 2.7%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
26 Finnegan, Henderson $945,000 11.2%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
27 Townsend and Townsend $940,000 6.2%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
28 Fried, Frank $930,000 MARKET 4.5%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
29 Schulte Roth MARKET W/ HOURS REQS. & POSSIBILITY OF MORE $925,000 6.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
30 Latham & Watkins $920,000 5.1%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
31 Wilmer Cutler MARKET $890,000 5.3%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
32 McDermott Will PUNTED $875,000 12.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
33 Kaye Scholer MARKET WITH POSSIBILITY OF MORE & PERF. REQS. $865,000 7.5%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
34 Arnold & Porter $855,000 4.9%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
34 Ropes & Gray $855,000 1.8%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
36 Choate, Hall $850,000 10.4%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
36 Kramer Levin MARKET W/ PERF. REQS. $850,000 6.3%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
38 Heller Ehrman $845,000 5.0%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
39 Akin Gump $840,000 7.7%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
40 Hughes Hubbard BELOW MARKET $835,000 12.1%
Not listed: Dewey (Market with hours requirement)
Clifford Chance (Market)
White & Case (Market)
Morgan Lewis (Punted)
Covington (Special Bonus - Regular Bonus not yet announced)
Sidley (Special Bonus - Regular Bonus not yet announced)
Freshfields (Market)
Allen & Overy (Market)
Proskauer (Market with hours reqs.)
Fish & Richardson (Failed to Match)
Linklaters (Market)
Fulbright & Jaworski (Failed to Match, no NY numbers yet)
Alston and Bird (Failed to Match)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bonus List of Shame
by NY Attorneys (Source: Crains)
1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)
11)
12)
13)
14)
15)
16) Wilson Elser
17)
18)
19) Latham & Watkins
20)
21)
22)
23)
24)
25) Greenberg Traurig
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Non-NY Bonus List of Shame:
(firms not matching in all domestic offices)
Firm (Offices that DID match)
1) Dewey & LeBoeuf (NYC, DC, CA)
2) Fried Frank (NYC)
3) White & Case (NYC)
4) Sidley Austin (NYC)
5) Covington & Burling (NYC)
6) Proskauer (NYC, LA, Boston)
7) WilmerHale (NYC)
A&B Charlotte is fat and happy. The office there took the lead and did a good job leading the market. There has been some significant attrition in the structured finance/servicing group, but appears to be lessened by a recent acquisition of a collection of attorneys from a smaller Charlotte Firm.
I made a 150 scaled score. I knew it - I am ethical!!
What market did A&B Charlotte lead? Not Charlotte. The Charlotte market belongs to CWT, MB and Dewey. A&B Charlotte is still on the 145 scale (unless your a patent goon), while both MB and Dewey pay 160, with CWT rumored to be there shortly.What market did A&B Charlotte lead? Not Charlotte. The Charlotte market belongs to CWT, MB and Dewey. A&B Charlotte is still on the 145 scale (unless your a patent goon), while both MB and Dewey pay the full 160 scale, with CWT rumored to be there shortly. And, when Charlotte bonuses are announced, A&B associates will be disappointed yet again.
are the MPRE scores out yet?
What about Powell Goldstein?
====================
It's been a year full of bitter pills for that firm, and one of them is to have to admit they can't afford to pay market anymore. With their shrinking PPP, they were already havng major problems finding enough cash to pay non equity partners more than senior associates, before the latest raises. Frankly, with the way things are now, I think there will be senior associates at K&S who, factoring in their bonuses, will make more $ than some of the lower tier equity partners at PoGo.
Do A&B and K&S per hour bonuses as well? If so, what are they?
K&S does per hour for every hour over 2050. Amount varies by class year, ranging up to about $100/hr. A&B does not.
When I become President I am going to prohibit associate salary raises all together. I am going to institute a new program I like to call, "Buying Votes and Increasing Fundraising from Partners at Big Law Firms". I am going to pay for it with a tax on lawyers, but exempt partners from the tax.
Someone PLEASE explain why Atlanta salaries are significantly higher than Seattle salaries. WTF
And don't give me this "because its Atlanta and no one wants to live there" stuff. Do firms really take that into consideration?
A&B's bank accounts don't have enough left over after recruiting fees (for putting butts in the many chairs emptied by fleeing associates) to have any left over for competitive bonuses! The churn in the NY office is so heavy I hardly recognize anybody anymore. And NY associates aren't even eligible for the "extraordinary" bonuses granted in the other A&B offices. We're considered too expensive already by our ungrateful overseers in Atlanta.
A&B's bank accounts don't have enough left over after recruiting fees (for putting butts in the many chairs emptied by fleeing associates) to have any left over for competitive bonuses! The churn in the NY office is so heavy I hardly recognize anybody anymore. And NY associates aren't even eligible for the "extraordinary" bonuses granted in the other A&B offices. We're considered too expensive already by our ungrateful overseers in Atlanta. A&B's eyes are bigger than its stomach. It wants desperately to be a "big boy on the block," but just doesn't play in the same league.
Someone PLEASE explain why Atlanta salaries are significantly higher than Seattle salaries. WTF
And don't give me this "because its Atlanta and no one wants to live there" stuff. Do firms really take that into consideration?
====================
Maybe because Atlanta is the economic hub of the entire southeastern United States? Maybe because Seattle is a backwoods village on the outer reaches of the country and isn't a major part of anything. Just maybe that has a little something to do with it, possibly.
Not to get to picky, but K&S's increased bonuses don't go into effect until next year. Hence, compairng the 2008 salary+bonus compensation of a K&S associate to the 2007 A&B scale is off base. A&B has a full year to react to K&S's bonus increase before they are actually that far behind.
Not to get too picky, but K&S's increased bonuses don't go into effect until next year. Hence, compairng the 2008 salary+bonus compensation of a K&S associate to the 2007 A&B scale is off base. A&B has a full year to react to K&S's bonus increase before they are actually that far behind.
In my experience, Atlanta is utterly devoid of the "southern charm" I've experienced and enjoyed in many other southern locales, both urban and rural. Its crass commercialism and tasteless sprawl are very off-putting. Maybe Atlanta will wisen up and rethink its priorities now that its water is drying up.
I heard a rumor that A&B's bonus included three cases of bottled water. Rumor has it that K&S is considering a match.
A&B AND K&S's scale start on 1/1/08.
I'm sorry, but these salaries are starting to make the less hrs worked at Troutman, Morris manning, Sutherland, etc look more and more appealing. WTF is the point of working at A&B if they're freaking stingy?
We A&B associates don't need money - we are more than amply compensated by the joy of our annual rah-rah retreat at a third-rate resort in the Florida panhandle with an inadequate air ticket allowance and no direct connections!
Actually it's not a case of "no one wants to live in Atlanta." If Atlanta firms can get away with paying less than law firms in comparable cities, doesn't it mean the opposite? Atlanta is so desirable a place to live, its people will put up with low salaries (rather than leave)?
Less hours worked at Sutherland, etc.? Who are you kidding? The lawyers at those firms in good practice groups work their asses off too; only the lawyers in crappy practices without enough work to ensure future employment bill low hours.
5:45 -- fair observation, but I don't think it holds water. Why would A&B risk losing associates and losing recruits (laterals in particular) by failing to announce a revised bonus plan that would govern people's behavior starting 1/1/98? And isn't it simply fair to associates to tell us now what the rules will be to earn our bonuses for 2008? A&B's failure to announce a new bonus plan now for 2008 strongly suggests there won't be one.
Can someone from A&B explain what the Extraordinary Contribution bonus is?
Laugh all you want, but for me this is real world sh*t. I'm done with this place; the failure -- not inability, just refusal -- to increase bonus (much less match K&S) is just plain greed by a partnership obsessed with trying to keep sight of K&S in the profitability dept. If that is what the partners value, then the clear signal to me is either (1) lateral to K&S; or (2) lateral to another firm that is going in another direction. Either way, I'm leaving.
I lived in Atlanta and worked at A&B. It truly sucked. The firm is full of bloated good ole boy partners. Moreover, the city is ugly and oppressively hot, there's no culture (other than big box retailers and chain restaurants) or anything interesting geographically in that region. There's no public transit and traffic is one gigantic snarling mess and it took me over an hour to drive 12 miles. Don't even get me started on the mindset and the conservatives down there -- it is a truly backwards city --- like a redneck with a pretty dress on.
5:33, you've obviously never been to Seattle. Because Seattle and the surrounding region could kick Atlanta's ass anyday.
Sutherland still is tops in Atlanta for associates working 1950 hrs
Sutherland A&B
1 145,000 145,000
2 150,000 150,000
3 165,000 155,000
4 175,000 162,000
5 185,000 172,000
6 200,000 185,000
6:29-
"could"...but doesn't
Atlanta's salaries are higher...probably because there is a greater demand for legal work in Atlanta than Seattle.
Why even fight over which is a better place to live? Both have benefits and drawbacks. Seattle is in a beautiful part of the country, on the water, and with the Cascades a short drive away. It also rains all the time. Atlanta is near the mountains of north Georgia and many beaches are close enough for an easy weekend jaunt. It also apparently never rains and can get a little hot.
Interesting that Sutherland pays more than A&B (though less than K&S). Does anyone know how those compare once bonuses are calculated in? I was under impression that no one besides K&S paid decent bonuses to associates other than for hours...
it rains a lot in Atlanta, just not much in the summer. Go visit Atlanta in the winter or spring.
Atlanta also has good non-chain restaurants. You just have to look in the city instead of out in the hideous suburbs.
Public transit is mediocre in Atlanta, but at least there is a subway system that can sometimes be useful. In Seattle it's bus or nothing. Seattle traffic also sucks, even if Atlanta is worse because you have to drive farther to get anywhere.
I would just like to remind everybody that for the most part, Atlanta is filled with graduates from toilet schools. Look at any firm website and you will a vast majority of the lawyers went to non T-14 schools, and for that matter non T-20 and even non tier-1 schools.
It's simply not a competitive market, and that is why they can get away with the horrible salaries. They know that most of the associates working at the firms there would not be competitive at better firms in other markets. I guarantee that if they were even just on the Texas scale that a significant # of graduates from top law schools would give them some thought, whereas now Atlanta doesn't even cross their minds.
And for those who wish to contradict my assertion, contradict all you want -- but the fact of the matter is you are still in Atlanta and you are still getting shafted. The reason you aren't leaving is because you can't (unless you choose to go to another toilet market).
7:44- Complete agree. The "prestige" schools are Emory and UGA. Enough said.
4:39:
You place McDermott Will & Emery on the "List of Shame," and say the firm "punted." I read in another set of comments on ATL that McDermott matched on Friday? Can someone clarify
7:44 and 8:00, I work in Atlanta. I guarantee you thtat I graduated from a more "prestigious" law school than you, as did the majority of my immediate colleagues. Don't kid yourselves. I turned down the firms at which you dream of working. And I don't regret it.
7:44 -- That is just a stupid statement, and shows more about your ignorance and bias than anything else. The top firms in Atlanta are filled with graduates from top law schools. Just like in other places -- even NYC -- there are some regional schools to which firms also turn to round out their associate needs. Look at the partnership ranks of K&S, for example, and I'm pretty sure the law schools represented are top tier.
And yes my laptop sucks and caused me to misspell "that". Get over it.
You cry-babies at A&B don't understand. You are completely fungible, and you have nowhere to go. King can't take all of you. Plus, King doesn't make any partners and they will work you harder than A&B. Stop crying and realize you have it pretty damn good in that town. Just accept the facts and you will sleep better at night.
You sound like a bunch of beggers on the street who get mouthy when the people passing by don't give you money.
NY to $175k
Even if I was in Atlanta, I would still have big balls.
Working, again, late into the night at the happy firm. Where is the lifestyle firm I bought into? And now I learn that I won't even get paid as much as the people at K&S, who it turns out are not the jerks I was told they were in the interview process. Wow, did I miscalculate.
So, what's next? Bickering about salaries in Tuscaloosa?
K&S must be better because I got an invite to a 1L recruiting party. But wait, they don't higher 1Ls. Huh?
11:42 - don't belittle the importance of Atlanta salaries. i'm interested to see whether first years can afford double wides.
Ditto 9:54 pm.
I can't believe this shiz! I'm a 4th year in ATL and I make less than a 2nd year in Charlotte! I've been working my fingers to the bone here and already billed 2250 through November...after these misers pay out my crappy bonus, I'm quitting. Moving to K&S, where they might work you to death, but at least you don't feel they are also robbing you blind.
I can't believe I work here.
Welcome to this new service!
7:44, you have been tagged . . . a Class B Douchebag. Have a nice life!
Can I git that there raise with some grits?
Hey Lat, and update on the salaries in Burkina Faso?
The AB partnership should be ashamed of this adjustment. As a K&S associate I'm actually feeling pretty good about our salary structure right about now.
A&B to double ply toilet paper
I never thought I'd say these words, but it appears that the K&S partnership cares more about the associates than the A&B partnership does. Who would have thunk it.
I also noticed that K&S just made 20 new partners. How many did A&B make?
Following up to 6:57 PM-
Sutherland pays more than K&S and A&B for associates billing 1950
Sutherland K&S A&B
1 145k 145k 145k
2 150k 150k 150k
3 165k 155k 155k
4 175k 162k 162k
5 185k 172k 172k
6 200k 185k 185k
Only when K&S associates reach 2050 do they make more than Sutherland associates.
3:36 -- How much more do K&S associates make when they reach 2050 hours?
3:47-
Check out the K&S memo here
http://www.abovethelaw.com/2007/10/nationwide_pay_raise_watch_kin_2.php#more
3:47 -- K&S pays a lot more for associates billing at least 2050. Here's K&S total comp. for 1-7 years, including bonus:
1 $152,500
2 $160,000
3 $170,000
4 $184,500-197,000
5 $194,500-212,000
6 $212,500-232,500
7 $225,000-250,000
As folks have observed before, the trade off between these firms is whether someone is willing to -- or in fact does -- work the extra 100 hours. Fair issue for associates to consider, though for many of us we work over 2050 because the work is there and not because of some master plan.
A&B, however, is not close to either of these firms because of the bonus. The trade off at A&B, then, is between getting screwed or getting out.
3:36 -- in fairness, you should point out that SAB's base salary is lower than K&S's and A&B's. Thus, for associates billing under 1950, SAB pays the least of these three firms (though SAB says it may prorate its bonus for associates who bill under 1950 but above some lower amount).
4:56(2) wrote: "It's been a year full of bitter pills for that firm, and one of them is to have to admit they can't afford to pay market anymore. With their shrinking PPP, they were already havng major problems finding enough cash to pay non equity partners more than senior associates, before the latest raises. Frankly, with the way things are now, I think there will be senior associates at K&S who, factoring in their bonuses, will make more $ than some of the lower tier equity partners at PoGo."
Contrary to your post...PoGo is at market (Atl.) for first years...$145k. May not be able to pay non-equity partners, but at least their off the list of shame in ATL.
4:11-
You are correct. It should also be noted that 100% of pro bono time is counted toward the 1950 mark at Sutherland, so the only excuse one has for not hitting that number is having made a lifestyle decision to work fewer hours for less pay.
For those <1800 hours, K&S and A&B pay the most after year 3 (but associates at Sutherland wouldn't feel as much pressure of those slacking at A&B and K&S). Sutherland pays the most between about 1850 and 2050. Above 2050, K&S pays the most.
The deferred comp at SAB are not the only bonuses SAB provides to high billers. SAB still pays additional discretionary bonuses to associates who bill over 2100 including pro bono. The amount of those bonuses fluctuates widely.
How widely?
6:40 -- it is pretty common knowledge that SAB's "additional discretionary bonuses" are pretty meager. Certainly those bonuses won't bridge the gap with the mid-point or top of the K&S scale.
6:20 -- do you expect us to believe that SAB does not mind associates billing less than 1800 hours on a routine basis, and that only K&S and A&B do? Sorry, not buying that at all.
As to your claim that "Sutherland pays the most between about 1850 and 2050," that is not accurate necessarily. Sutherland's bonus kicks in at 1950. Thus, for those billing between 1850 and 1950, the issue is how great would the SAB prorated bonus be, would it be enough to exceed the K&S base salary, and you also would have to take into account K&S's discretionary bonus, which does not require more than 2050 hours and, thus, would allow additional money for someone who did lots of pro bono or other non-billable work.
5:21 -- Is PoGo at "market" for associates more senior than first years? What is the PoGo bonus plan?
10:52 - Don't think they've released (or decided on) that info based on what I've heard. Probably closer to end of the year.
10:43-
6:20 didn't say that Sutherland wouldn't mind...just that there would be less pressure than K&S and A&B. The Sutherland scheme clearly contemplates associates billing 1800 hours and being conpensated accordingly.
As for the Sutherland prorated bonus, if you read their memo it provides a linearly prorated "bonus" between 1800 and 1950 hours. Depending on the associate year between 3 and 6, the Sutherland scale surpasses the K&S and A&B scale between about 1830 and about 1850 hours billed. Not until 2050 hours does K&S catch back up with Sutherland.
As for discretionary bonuses, Sutherland also provides for discretionary bonuses. I doubt that either firm will be paying substantial bonuses for associates billing 1800 hours. Someone "who did lots of pro bono work" will have all of that pro bono counted towards the 1950 requirement at Sutherland.
What is Nelson Mullins Atlanta doing to match either K&S and/or A&B re: base compensation and bonuses? Do other NMRS offices (Charlotte, Columbia, Charleston) follow the Atlanta lead?
If you had offers from CLT firms where you imagined you'd be doing capital markets work, which would you take / keep away from? I am already thinking that would you keep on interviewing as a 3L? I am not sure what trainwreck awaits since I hear that people have no work, are redeploying associates, and are getting people to leave for not making their hours. Or is it time to think of being an M&A person / litigator (which many firms' CLT offices don't have) / etc.? I am thinking that more leveraged firms = bad b/c they have a lot of people idling and a less leveraged firm = bad because they probably had less work and a less diversified practice to start with. Split summers and hope everyone merges in the meantime if they haven't already?
Peachy - stop worrying and realize structured finance work is cyclical. Problem solved.
PoGo is paying $145k in Atlanta? Since when? I thought they announced they would NOT be raising associate salaries?
Please clarify.
2:01 - Agreed. Peachy, since you are probably a 2L, the market will be a lot different by the time you start practicing in 2009. So just enjoy that you have a summer job.
Peachy:
In the meantime, watch for layoffs if you are thinking of joining CWT-Dechert-Dewey-A&B CLT. You can summer and take the money and re-interview in light of any layoffs as a 3L. Who cuts first and cuts deepest will be something to keep in mind since securitization is cyclical. The market will come back, but no firm will suffer the idle for long.
COMMENT CLUSTERFUCK!
"Dawn" is right...the mood at large national firms in Charlotte is very depressing. Associates are on their toes about possible firings and news that the market won't return for at least another 6 to 8 months is not helping the situation.
Yeah, for someone who busts their ass (even a little) you can make some decent money here at K&S under this new system. I plan on billing 2400+ hours for 2008 as a 2nd year, and my total compensation at that level will be right at $175,000. That is pretty good for a second year in Atlanta.
What's even better is that for my fourth year, billing that same 2,400 hours, my total compensation will be around $212,000 ($162,000 base plus $28,750 fixed bonus plus $21,300 variable hours bonus). That is also pretty sweet for Atlanta.
What is Alston Bird total comp for years 1-7?
What's POGO's bonus structure in Atlanta?