That chart seems low. At my NY firm, the rule of thumb is $100 for every year of seniority. That seems fare, becuase I think that more senior associates rely on their secretaries much more heavily than junior associates. Also, at a lot of firms, more junior people may share secretariese with more people.

Does anyone find this condescending and somewhat sexist? Come on, they are professionals and co-workers, not wait staff. I wouldn't mind a haircut (seriously, $200 isn't much to me, is to them) out of my bonus to give support staff, gasp, a professional bonus from the *firm* rather than a cash gift.

It just seems *wrong* to speak of tipping someone who should be a collegue. Does this justify treating them in an unprofessional manner or ordering them around like waitstaff the rest of the year?

First: these are not gifts. These payments to secretaries who do next to nothing for associates are a form of extortion.

That is all.

laterals: pro-rate this table

I agree it was pretty steep. I think $100 is more than adequate a gift from most non-Partner-proximate associates, unless the Sec. is particularly outstanding. Mine, who sucks, is lucky I am getting her jack.

I also intend on getting something for the IT person here, who is absolutely stellar.

Another question to ask is WHEN is the right time to give? Dec. 20th?

Does anyone find this condescending and somewhat sexist? Come on, they are professionals and co-workers, not wait staff. I wouldn't mind a haircut (seriously, $200 isn't much to me, is to them) out of my bonus to give support staff, gasp, a professional bonus from the *firm* rather than a cash gift.

It just seems *wrong* to speak of tipping someone who should be a collegue. Does this justify treating them in an unprofessional manner or ordering them around like waitstaff the rest of the year?

Suppose one has only been working for a month so far this year. Does the chart still apply?

Suppose one has only been working for a month so far this year. Does the chart still apply?

Thanks for this thread. What about class of 2007? We've only been working for three months, but I don't want to come off cheap.

1:51,

I bet your secretary wants that money, and not some ..whatever the hell you would get her. Nobody says you have to give her a billfold full of Lincolns. Amex makes gift cards that look classy enough.

1:51 - You sound like a very senior lawyer. I mean, we all confuse "fare" with "fair." Please, take a hike - this message board is for lawyers and wannabees, not you.

1:52 - My secretary does ZERO for me, but see my response to 1:53.

1:53 - It isn't sexist, it's tradition. It's a gift, an expression of kindness that is unecessary and not necessarily requited. Deal.

I don't think it's excessive to give a gift of 1/1000th of my salary to my secretary.

How about those of us who are doing doc review? Shouldn't we get a bonus as well, after all, if an associate had to put up with review 20000 docs a day for relevance they would go crazy.

it should apply to people who started in the fall--your assistant had another associate before you came and that person is not around to give them a gift. think of it as associates pitching in for a bonus, not a gift personally from yourself.

btw, these figures may seem low, but when you factor in the fact that each assistant has an average of 3-4 principles, and that associates also give a smaller gift (about 50% of the amounts listed) to assistants providing secondary support, the assistants make out quite well.

Note Lat's caveat about the table:

"It apparently dates back from December 2006, however, so query whether the amounts should be adjusted upwards in light of (1) the latest pay raise (to $160K), (2) the special bonus (if you get it), and (3) inflation / passage of time."

lol, someone suggesting an 8th year should give $800. are you out of your goddamn mind?

I'm a junior associate (class of 2006) at a big firm in Philly. I plan on giving my secretary $100. She's fabulous. I would consider giving her more, but then I would be the asshole, making the senior associates (who only give $100 or some crappy gift) look bad.

I did give her $100 last year after only working 3 months. I felt that pro-rating a gift was stingy. Plus, she did a lot of stuff in those 3 months that she won't have to repeat (like showing me how to use the weird flavia coffeemaker and showing me shortcuts to the bathrooms).

I used a VISA giftcard last year, but will probably do cash this year. Those giftcards sometimes charge the recipient a fee when they use the, and I think that just sucks.

This chart is shocklingly low. I gave my assistant $500 last year (I am class of 2004). Needless to say, she is unbelievably helpful and always priortizes my work overall everyone else's. $500 bucks is a pittance of an investment given what rewards it brings through the year, not to mention the motivational effect it has on her...

2003 grad, gave my secretary $200 last year, anticipate increasing this year. Some firms are fairly cheap when it comes to support staff. In my experience, this (relatively) small amount of money buys an awful lot of loyalty.

what should I get for my gay Fillipana legal assistant?

A tip? You are asking about tipping your secretary? Like a waiter? Like your cab driver? A tip?

This is a gross thread. Think about it. If you want to buy your colleague (your assistant/secretary a gift) go ahead. If you are a generous person you will buy/give them a generous gift. If you are not, you will not. But, to call it a tip is disgusting. If I were your assistant, I would refuse a gift.

I give my secretary a very nice sized gift certificate, and a gift for each of his children. He works hard WITH me. I appreciate him. I would never think of any gift I give him as a tip.

What if you have two part time secretaries? One Monday - Wednesday and one Thursday - Friday? My secretary M-W doesn't do much for me, but she is my "main" assistant, whereas the secretary that is in Th-F is amazing and always goes above and beyond. Is it wrong to split the amount in half between the two?

I gave my secretary a nice birthday present and sent her flowers after her surgery. She has, in return, given me a huge attitude and done shitty work for me (and I'm not fussy). I'll give her some cash, but I'm certainly not going overboard. What am I losing, really?

1:57(1) - whatever sort of kind expression you intend it to be, a gift actually *is* necessary in this context. the failure to give a gift will have negative consequences. i agree that gift-giving is a deal - but it isn't a gift; it's extortion.

eff em

2:06: Not at all. If they confer, so what?

i have 15 employees at my apartment building to tip as well which will total $1k. in light of the other holiday expenses and the number of people working for each secretary, $100 per year of seniority is refuckingdiculous.

whoever made up that rule deserves superaids.

I agree 2:06. (a), its not my job to pay my assistant, its the firms. (b) i dont use her for anything other than entering my time and a nice chat here or there, so there truly isnt much service to "tip" for. But (c), as someone I like and appreciate, I will give her a gift, although at this point, the value of said gift is undetermined, as I have not figured out the perfect gift.

I kind of agree with 2:06 and the others, but is it true that it is customary to give money AND a gift? Or just money?

I would think it more acceptable to give a gift that was "worth" whatever the table says, but then again, infinitely more useful to give that amount in cash so that they can do whatever with it.

Any secretaries on this board care to chime in?

My secretary was annoyed when the firm gave her a gift certificate to Tiffany's for her anniversary instead of cash.

Thanks for posting! I am class of 2006 and I will be giving my secretary $100 and a box of chocolate. I also had a temp fill in for her for a few weeks, so she will get a box of chocolate.

You ever go to a bar and tip the bartender $20 bucks for the first round you buy? Ever notice they are more attentive and provide you with faster service because of the larger up front tip? Same pscyhology here. So gift appropriately to your assistant. Watch her prioritize your shitty work over the more senior associate she is also covering.

Pays to be nice, at least that's what the pirates tell me. Ninjas are not good for any advice since they laregly remain silent.

My secretary is useless. She will be getting zero because she tries to hide from me sometimes.

I'm really astonished by how cheap people here are--and how they're trying to find any excuse to give a smaller gift, or to pro-rate, or whatever.

Unless you're at some crummy small firm, you make a shitload of money. Your secretary is lucky if she makes a third what you do. You'll go out and blow $100 on a few drinks without batting an eyelash--something that your secretary would consider a big deal. You eat at nice restaurants all the time. I'll bet your assistant doesn't.

God our profession is littered with idiots.

2:15 you are a moron. Unlike at a bar, all asses are not created equal. Assistants / secretaries will prioritize work based on their perception of who will advance their career and/or who has the capacity to cause them the most trouble. An extra $100 or even $1000 isn't going to get a years' worth of "priority service". Sorry pal. Go back to drinking that Bud.

I wish firms would provide some guidance on this, as I think it varies greatly between markets and firms themselves. CA firms don't appear to be getting NYC bonuses, and where there are hours-based bonsues, some associates don't have bonuses to "share." Moreover, some firms give secretaries and legal assistants bonuses from the firm, so it doesn't fall on the shoulders of associates to essentially pay as a gift what would otherwise be a taxable salary component.

All this being said, a nice gift (or gift card) is always appropriate and appreciated. I read sometime ago on another board that the following factors should be taken into account: your level with the company (e.g., a first year or a partner); the time over which you have spent working with this person (i.e., you might go up every year, so don't start with $500); the amount of time this person spends helping you; whether this person is a good/hard worker or gives you nothing but grief; and your company's culture. My personal rule of thumb is that it's crazy for people to be spending more on work colleagues than they do on their own parents or family -- the season is supposed to be about thoughtfulness and generosity, not about showing off or keeping up appearances at the office.

I tend to think gift cards are the way to go -- an envelope with cash does seem crass, and, as another poster pointed out, not really an appropriate way to treat professional and salaried work colleagues.

Let's say you had a secretary for vast majority of year, then due to reasons outside of your control you were swithced to a different secretary. How would you work the gift situation? The first secretary is still helpful, so I will give something.

When I was a legal assistant at the DC office of a T20 NY Firm I got a 75 dollar bottle of scotch from one attorney; and 100 dollars of Amazon from another; Then the firm gives out group gifts from the Associates in General (100$-200$ based on seniority), Plus a gift from the Partners in General (Same)

I'm class of 07 and I will be giving $100. Our secretaries have been to hell and back this year (merger) and it's the least I can do.

I was thinking about also giving some small holiday present, but my secretary is allergic to chocolate, my first instinct. Thoughts?

2006 Grad in Denver and I gave a $125 REI gift certificate. My assistant is the best and I felt guilty only giving that much.

If you have a secretary who busts his or her ass and makes your life easier then the decent thing to do is give him or her a gift or cash to show your appreciation. But the idea that a large monetary gift is required for every secretary is taking it too far. Not everyone has a great secretary, or even a good/competent secretary. I don't use my secretary at all. Most of the associates I work with don't. Mostly we know that the secretaries care about pleasing the partners and back burner our work. Last year I had a stellar secretary, and I gave him a holiday gift. This year my secretary isn't nearly as good. If I give her anything, it's because I don't want to be labeled the office cheapskate. Gotta love the holiday blackmail.

Are you people serious? I have never seen a bigger bunch of socially-inept losers in my life! You need to post on a blog to figure out how much to spend on a gift for your assistants? Most NORMAL people instinctively just know that you give whatever you think is appropriate and be done with it. Even if you give your assistant an overly-generous gift, it still doesn't mean he/she will work hard for you if they don't like you. You're not going to buy their loyalty/hard work. They'll take the money and will still ignore you. Capice?

I'm 2007 and haven't used my secretary for anything. Is $50 too cheap?

2:18, I agree with you, but it's kinda like the fact that bartender will prioritize hot girls and minor celebrities above me too. I just want to be in front of the other schlubby lawyers and ibankers fighting for the scraps of his time. Similarly, yes, she'll put a senior partner before me, but I want to be before all the other associates on my level. But that's why I drink Coors Original.

2:19, I would give the first secretary a larger gift than the new one. I think that is totally appropriate given the amount of time she worked with you.

I just checked in with my secretary about this thread. He said that in come firms cash is given regularly. He finds that degrading. He thinks cash (or a bonus) should come from the firm, and that what I give him should be out of my desire to give him a gift.

I will note here, he usually gives me or at least my daughter, a gift every year. We appreciate each other, so it is not, at least for me, a matter of duty, but rather appreciation for another year.

(Written by 2:06 as a follow-up)

2:14: That is fucking incredible.

2:18: I use the same rule of thumb. I'm actually not cheap at all. I am, however, irked by the shakedown vibe during the holidays.

At my firm the rule of thumb is $100 for each year you've been at the firm. I don't mind being generous to my secretary if she actually did things for me. I think she's been at my firm for 100 years. She''s often not at her desk, takes two hour lunches and will screw up the most basic tasks I ask her to do. I even do my own time sheets and copying. Sometimes she'll even not answer my phone because she doesn't feel like it.

I could always not give her the recommended gift. But then I look cheap and she'll tell all the other secretaries, screwing me if I ever get assigned another secretary.

And even if she was the best, I'd hesitate to give her $700-800 if I were more senior.

It truly is a shakedown. I used to be a legal secretary/assistant before law school and I only received a holiday gift over $100 once, and that was an in house position.

So, 2:06 wanted to get credit for writing nice things about his secretary on a blog? i mean, how low can you be...

2:19 - That happened to me. I gave both $100 as they each worked for me for about 6 months and the going rate at my firm was about $200 for my year. I don't think the former secretary expected anything as she hadn't done any work for me for months, but she was pretty happy.

if you're a partner, you should give the maximum gift amount allowed by law: $12,000.

Secretaries do so much for their bosses; they deserve a piece of the pie, too.

Just for the record, 2:18, not all of us who are making lots of money are blowing it on drinks and fancy dinners. Some of us are budgeting carefully and sending every spare cent to Sallie Mae. Just wanted to correct the misconception that law firm associate = tons of extra cash.

Not saying that this is a reason to not to be generous -- saying "thank you" with a nice gift to *good* work colleagues is important and appropriate. Just am touchy because over the past few days, there's been a lot of talk directed at me about "how much money I make" from any number of sources (paralegal, taxi cab driver, secretary, highschool friend). I know I'm very fortunate to be an associate at a big law firm, and I very much appreciate this opportunity. But sometimes I want to pull out my Sallie Mae statements and shake people by the shoulders and show them how far I am *in the hole* and that it will take at least a few more years of big law life to reach a net worth of a big fat round zero....

Sorry for the off-topic rant. Back to discussing gift ideas! (I'm leaning towards a gift card and flowers, myself.)

2:29: I actually don't think that's too cheap, but if you're worried about being labeled as cheap, just get your secretary something nice and thoughtful that costs $50 instead.

2:30 - Yeah, the shakedown vibe does suck, but it is what it is. I think for most junior people, $100 is totally sufficient (though on the lower side). Once you break the 200K barrier, you should probably consider $200-range. For partners and very senior associates, should probably go even higher.

Just for the record, 2:18, not all of us who are making lots of money are blowing it on drinks and fancy dinners. Some of us are budgeting carefully and sending every spare cent to Sallie Mae. Just wanted to correct the misconception that law firm associate = tons of extra cash.

Not saying that this is a reason to not to be generous -- saying "thank you" with a nice gift to *good* work colleagues is important and appropriate. Just am touchy because over the past few days, there's been a lot of talk directed at me about "how much money I make" from any number of sources (paralegal, taxi cab driver, secretary, highschool friend). I know I'm very fortunate to be an associate at a big law firm, and I very much appreciate this opportunity. But sometimes I want to pull out my Sallie Mae statements and shake people by the shoulders and show them how far I am *in the hole* and that it will take at least a few more years of big law life to reach a net worth of a big fat round zero....

Sorry for the off-topic rant. Back to discussing gift ideas! (I'm leaning towards a gift card and flowers, myself.)

Some guys I knew from high school used to tip their secretaries $100 every year and they got rich, it was no big deal.

This table would require me to spend more on my secretary than I spend on a member of my family.

I give my assistants (and gave my staff, before I was a lawyer) gifts in lieu of cash--main thread notwithstanding. I have always had very loyal and dedicated service from such colleagues. I make sure to tell new staff that I believe gifts should have meaning and you should get people something you think they would like, and then I ask them for a list. None of them have asked for gifts that exceed the amounts in the list above, even if I buy _everything_ on the list, which I usually do.

Loyalty comes from the relationship you build with your assistants in toto, and the kind built by kindness and gratitude throughout the year, plus reasonable gift-giving won't (except in rare cases) be affected by an attorney who drops $500 at Christmas and treats their colleagues badly the other 364 days of the year.

I've worked at 2 BigLaw joints in California. At both, we gave gifts, NOT MONEY. Gift certificates were OK, but even the partners did not give money. They gave really nice gifts- like Chanel purses, etc.
Are there places on the West Coast where associates are actually expected to give cash?

2:34
Amen. Some people, associates included, seem oblivious to the debt issue. After a few years out of school my net worth has only just reached zero, the money I have on hand equals the education debts I have. I also don't own a home. In New York where I live a down payment and a $3k/month mortgage is within reach, assuming my income stays the same. Attrition rates at firms being what they are, that's a pretty poor assumption. Obviously we're way better off than the average income earner, but far, far from rich.

just a card would be nice

2:22 - my secretary is allergic to chocolate too. Last year I gave her a $100 gift card in a box with a small winter scarf (nothing too expensive in case she didn't like the color). This year maybe a candle with the gift card.

Just so you know, 2:33, $12,000 is not "the maximum amount allowed by law," rather that is the amount on which you do not have to pay gift tax when given to an individual.

Actually, 2:42, if you've never been required to file a gift tax before, you can give $1,012,000 to one person and not pay a dime of tax.

That would have to be one hell of a secretary, though.

The table is ridiculous. I'm about as senior as an associate can get, but besides making sure the big partner whom she also "supports" is happy, her day is spent shopping on the internet and forwarding my requests for assistane to people in the IT and/or copy department. For this, she will get $50.

My secretary is awful. I'm giving $100 and it will pain me. Class of 2004.

Shit, I slip the bartender a hundred bucks just for keeping the ice cubes cold.

This thread is cracking me up. It is kind of funny how people are calling for associate pay increases of $15k plus, but worry about holiday gifts to their assistants in the rage of $100.
w/o assistants and paralegals attorneys would be helpless, useless, and clueless.

This table is absolutely absurd -- there is no need for associates to dish out such a stackload of Lincolns. Let's face facts: these associates didn't hire this secretary to work for them -- the law firm did. So if anyone or any entity should feel any sort of need to give a bonus, it's the firm itself. Secondly, most of these secretaries spend the day either talking on the phone, bitching to each other, or playing solitaire. No associate should be compensating that activity.

This thread is absurd.

I am also on the WestCoast and many people here give actual gifts, but a covert survey of secretaries indicates that they would actually prefer cash. If it feels too tacky, maybe do cash/gift card plus some smaller edible gift (chocolate, wine, etc.).

BTW, secretaries here generally give their associates presents too.

so is this gift in addition to the bonus my firm pays the secretary?

Can I double her gift for being hot?

few bottles of rum are the best gift, imo.

er, 2:50, the point here is that the associates didn't hire the assistants but are expected to compensate them at a particular level for services that may or may not have been rendered.

even if associates do or do not render law firms the services for which they are hired, they are requesting additional compensation from their employers, not from the people for whom they work.

the proper analogy: law firm associates expecting holiday gifts from their clients and refusing to do assigned work if clients decline to give them cash and chocolates.

if a secretary wanted a pay increase of $15k, she should have gone to law school, gotten good grades and gone to biglaw rather than electing to be one of the poors.

what are you people, fucking communists? from each according to his ability and to each according to his need?

fuck that, pop the Nicolas Feuillate Palmes D'Or .

What about if you use a secretary pool? At my firm 7 or 8 lawyers are assigned to a pool of 3 secretaries - A $200 gift for each one of them?

248 is the best comment on this site ever!

To the people criticizing the need/usefulness for this thread. I cannot believe you are being honest with yourself. This is NOT simply an issue of social niceties- this is an unwritten rule of law firm business on which lawyers are given no guidance other than those who have been instructed by some sort of mentor, or those (such as me) who have struggled through it and come to some sort of "equilibrium" over the years based on the relative expression of gratitude exhibited by the recipient. The only thing I would say to young associates, is try to err on the side of "generosity".

1:59(2): "each assistant has an average of 3-4 principles" -- ? These assistants need some ethics training!

I'm class of '02. I gave my secretary $500 + something for her kids even though I have many complaints about her work (which I'm voicing throughout the year) but I like her as a person and see her struggle to make a living as a single mom with two kids and other relatives who are living off her. She was thrilled and very grateful which made my day a bit better. I give paras with whom I've worked a lot B&N gift cards ($25) and I give big boxes of Godiva chocolates to other support departments.

1:51 - How is this sexist? This question/pay scale applies to male assistants just as much as female assistants.

1:15 - How is this sexist? The question/pay scale applies to male assistants just as much as it does female assistants.

Those of you familiar with JT's work on SNL know what holiday gift JT plans to give his administrative assistant.

as a junior associate pinching pennies to pay off loans, i'm pretty sure $100 means more to me than to my secretary, whose clothes are more expensive (bloomingdales) than mine (ann taylor loft). just a thought.

er, 2:55, you seem to have left your brain at the train station this morning. My point is the expectation itself is unreasonable. But since you find it reasonable, why not be generous this year and give your secretation a cool million. I think that would meet everyone's expectations.

er, 2:55, you seem to have left your brain at the train station this morning. My point is the expectation itself is unreasonable. But since you find it reasonable, why not be generous this year and give your secretary a cool million. I think that would meet everyone's expectations.

JT=post of the day award!!!!

I spent $300 on my wife's Christmas gift. For my parents and siblings, I spent about $50 each. I don't consider myself a cheapskate, but I am still six figures in debt from law school. My secretary is a nice person, but it honestly would have zero effect on my job performance if she was not there (I never ask her for anything). I am certainly not going to spend as much money on her as I do on my immediate family. A $50 gift is more than adequate.

2:38(2); 3:03 - great points. when i was a first year making $125k in new york, i was spending as much as i could on my student loans and arguably living on a lot less than my secretary. $100 to a secretary pinched my gift budget for family...which is why this tradition borders on extortion.

2:58 is correct. At least in NYC, it's tipping time for those we rely on at work (secretaries, paralegals) and at home (doormen, concierges, superintendents, handymen, etc.).

For NYC biglaw secretaries, tip is $100 per year of seniority.

when i was a paralegal, my firm (biglaw)gave us $25 gift cards to barnes and noble that was supposed to be on behalf of the "partners and associates".

Class of '03 here, being let go. Should I give my secretary something as my last day is in a week or so? In the last few years I've given gift cards with several hundred dollars on them.

But I'm being let go. Money is tight, what should I do? Thanks.

What about if you use a secretary pool? At my firm 7 or 8 lawyers are assigned to a pool of 3 secretaries - A $200 gift for each one of them?

as an AA at a top 10 NYC firm, I report to 4 associates and one partner. I'm always stuck here late and give up alot of my weekends not to mention all of cya I do for the guys hiding from wives/gfs/and bosses.

The associates give between $100-$200 and the partner gives $500. Give what you can afford as long as its thoughtful. I think it's completely unreasonable to expect a gift. Seriously!

Lmao @ the one cheap bastard that gives his AA a metrocard every holiday season. Don't let that be you.

Oh and one of the AAs is sleeping with a partner (*surprise*) and she got $200. We almost peed ourselves laughing.

I took my (male and straight!) secretary to Scores for his holiday bonus. I figure, cover, a lap dance, and few drinks was more than enough.

We share secretaries and my secretary doesn't do anything for me; she works only for the partner. When I ask for stuff, she just ignores me. I'm giving her a fifty dollar gift that she's lucky to get.

She'll have her job forever; I'm going out in five years at the most. I need to save.

So I'll weigh in--I'm a paralegal and I have my own secretary. I've worked at V10 firms in NY, London, Silicon Valley.

In New York, cash is what's appropriate and expected. Firms often give secretaries and paralegals bonuses which amount to about a piddly 5% of base (and remember, in NY, paralegal base is REALLY low). So your $100 goes a long way and means a lot.

If you think your secretary likes you (and you consider him/her a friend) feel free to take him/her out to lunch with the other associates that he/she works for. This is a classy way to say thank you IF you might enjoy one another's company.

If you really can't stand your secretary but are trying to "salvage" a relationship or "stay on his/her good side" give any of the following: bottle of wine, gift certificate to nice spa such as Bliss, nice (not chintzy) flowers, gift card to somewhere generic like B&N or Amazon.

Outside of NYC, the "cash is king" tipping-everyone-you know economy does not exist. Cash is considered tacky in MANY other parts of the country.

As for paralegals, as a paralegal, I have received presents from attorneys for whom I work particularly closely, but would NEVER EVER expect a gift, and would be offended by cash. On transactions, I am considered a "part of the team" and to be given a cash tip would further emphasize my status as "attorneys' bIatch."

If you really can't stand your secretary and he/she does nothing, then you ought to speak with him or her privately and/or his or her manager. As an associate, having a good secretary will take you far and help you get out of the office sooner AND keep you from spinning your wheels. Do what you need to do to get on the same page.

3:08

$100/year is generally the rule of thumb at my firm. I intend to go above market at $500 or so as a class of 2006 in light of the extraordinariness which is my assistant.

Obviously I'm the Wachtell of associates :p

So I'll weigh in--I'm a paralegal and I have my own secretary. I've worked at V10 firms in NY, London, Silicon Valley.

In New York, cash is what's appropriate and expected. Firms often give secretaries and paralegals bonuses which amount to about a piddly 5% of base (and remember, in NY, paralegal base is REALLY low). So your $100 goes a long way and means a lot.

If you think your secretary likes you (and you consider him/her a friend) feel free to take him/her out to lunch with the other associates that he/she works for. This is a classy way to say thank you IF you might enjoy one another's company.

If you really can't stand your secretary but are trying to "salvage" a relationship or "stay on his/her good side" give any of the following: bottle of wine, gift certificate to nice spa such as Bliss, nice (not chintzy) flowers, gift card to somewhere generic like B&N or Amazon.

Outside of NYC, the "cash is king" tipping-everyone-you know economy does not exist. Cash is considered tacky in MANY other parts of the country.

As for paralegals, as a paralegal, I have received presents from attorneys for whom I work particularly closely, but would NEVER EVER expect a gift, and would be offended by cash. On transactions, I am considered a "part of the team" and to be given a cash tip would further emphasize my status as "attorneys' bIatch."

If you really can't stand your secretary and he/she does nothing, then you ought to speak with him or her privately and/or his or her manager. As an associate, having a good secretary will take you far and help you get out of the office sooner AND keep you from spinning your wheels. Do what you need to do to get on the same page.

lemme also add that those figures I stated apply to a firm that DOES NOT give support staff a bonus. If your AA does get a bonus then the #s can be lower.

WTF @ these cheap arse people. I swear I'm going to bank to an I-bank next year :(

er, 3:05, awesome retort.

2:56 - Ah, the ersatz cultured d-bag is back from yesterday's "beyond BigLaw" thread. Welcome

I'm a paralegal at one of the biggies, and I'm almost embarrassed to admit this, but two years ago, one of the associates gave me a gift card to Victoria's Secret. He was pretty pervy and always seemed to be leering. The point of this? Please please please be aware the your gifts can send the wrong message (and perhaps be bordering on sexual harassment). And, if you do give a gift card, please pick something a little less tacky than VS (hello? La Perla).

Look, if you guys buy 5 AMEX gift cards right now, you get a $25 card for yourself for free.

"I don't think it's excessive to give a gift of 1/1000th of my salary to my secretary."

or less, if you're coughing up $100.

even you "penny-pinchers" aren't that squeezed.

I'm at a mid-sized firm in a smaller market and had thought I would give a $50 gift card to my assistant my first year. Now I feel like that might seem stingy. I make just slightly more than half of what NY market pays, so is it reasonable to give a smaller gift too? Anyone from a smaller market have input?

i will give your stock certificates to the homeless guy on the train if i don't get something rad.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this scenario: I get a new secretary a couple of times of year and have not had the same one for a full year in the last 4 years. Also, I literally ask my secretary to do, like, 2 very easy tasks (expense report, etc.) all year and also share with 5 other attorneys. I feel like $200 - $500 would be appropriate if he/she actually did anything for me, but a little steep otherwise. Any thoughts?

calculating per hour, my secretary makes much more than i do. she should give me something for xmas.

my secretary is hot -- what do you think she'll do for $500?

i heard that the amex cards suck because you can't use them for part of a transaction - has to be the full price and they charge a fee for using them...

confirmation?

JT would like to invite 3:28 to interview for a position on JT's administrative staff.

IMO, those are "advocacy numbers" put out by some secretary. I think par is $100 - maybe a little less if you're junior and/or don't use em much. Maybe as high as $200 if they're awesome and you use them a lot.

At a firm where secretaries have 4 associates, that's $400 - $800 depending on how much work they do. I am under the impression that partners typically give a lot more. Good secretaries typically are partner secretaries - so they would get more in "holiday gifts". Like associate bonuses, and waiter tips, these aren't really gifts so much as a discretionary component of compensation.

Before I went to law school, I was a legal assistant in Cincinnati, OHIO - and my Christmas bonuses from my sole practicioner boss were always $500.

Stop being cheap asses, New York associates!

Before I went to law school, I was a legal assistant in Cincinnati, OHIO - and my Christmas bonuses from my sole practicioner boss were always $500.

Stop being cheap asses, New York associates!

3:22: That is creepy. Reminds me of when a boss, also a leerer, really, really, really encouraged me to see the movie "Secretary." DISGUSTING.

i don't care if i'm getting squeezed or not, my money is mine. i didn't have rich parents for nothing.

$100 for junior associates and $150 for seniors is fine. all of these twatwaffles calling everyone cheap for not blowing a grand on their secretary need to save their money and buy themselves a blowjob or a gun to kill themselves with.

I usually give my secretary a pair of panties and a ponytail holder. Do you think that is enough?

hey lat,

you get props for the reference to that hott movie.

I think you mean to say "with which to kill themselves."

DO YOU HAVE TO GIVE A GIFT IF YOUR FIRM ALREADY PAYS HER A BONUS????

I don't tip because society says I have to.
If they really put forth the effort, I'll give 'em somethin' extra.
But this tipping automatically, it's for the birds.
As far as I'm concerned, they're just doin' their job.
….
These ladies aren't starvin' to death. They make minimum wage.
I used to work minimum wage, and when I did...
I wasn't lucky enough to have a job that society deemed tip-worthy.

As an '04, I will be giving my secretary $150. She does very little for me -- but not by choice, as she works mostly for the partners to whom she is assigned.

I am getting my secretary the newest and sweetest version of solitaire.

3:42(1) - leerer? i hardly even know her!

Secretaries love throwing stars.Five throwing stars per year of seniority is appropriate.

Sabres and swords are lame gifts; they are something that pirate would give.

Again, I don't think my secretary is a bad person, I just think she is very lazy and gets paid exceptionally well given that she basically does nothing and is probably only at her desk about 25-30 hrs a week. I'm guessing she makes at least $70,000. The truth is she has a very cushy gig and I do not think she is owed some awesome display of gratitute in the form of a lavish Christmas gift. From what I can tell walking around the office, seeing many, many secretaries playing snood and reading romance novels all day (even during periods of high activity, like 6 months ago), she is not an outlier.

dogs: That wasn't a very good poem. You should start small with haiku, then go longer only when you have the hang of "loading every rift with ore."

Any SUMMERS get their secretary anything? I gave $50.

Again, I don't think my secretary is a bad person, I just think she is very lazy and gets paid exceptionally well given that she basically does nothing and is probably only at her desk about 25-30 hrs a week. I'm guessing she makes at least $70,000. The truth is she has a very cushy gig and I do not think she is owed some awesome display of gratitute in the form of a lavish Christmas gift.

How much should I give to the guy who washes the workout gear at the gym? He provides at least as much value as my secretary.

until i am a shareholder in a firm, I will not tip the staff as we are all fellow employees. duh.

They do about the same amount of work, Summers get to go on outings and make a boatload of money.

Summers should also tip the year-long associates.

4:06: I gave flowers.

Here's where this is all so screwy. For the most part, attorneys are extremely lucky to hae been born with brains and opportunity to get them into law school. Frequently, the only difference between attorneys and the staff who support them is exactly this luck.

You are not "entitled" to be where you are, making six figures for doing less actual law than most government lawyers, you are "lucky." If part of your employer's expectation is that you participate in the compensation of your secretary, than just do it and quit whining about how your secretary doesn't deserve it. There are lots of things you're getting that you don't deserve.

Here's where this is all so screwy. For the most part, attorneys are extremely lucky to hae been born with brains and opportunity to get them into law school. Frequently, the only difference between attorneys and the staff who support them is exactly this luck.

You are not "entitled" to be where you are, making six figures for doing less actual law than most government lawyers, you are "lucky." If part of your employer's expectation is that you participate in the compensation of your secretary, than just do it and quit whining about how your secretary doesn't deserve it. There are lots of things you're getting that you don't deserve.

There are many smart people out there who do not earn as much as lawyers.

Not all lawyers in BIGLAW are smart. Some are hard working.

Lawyers in BIGLAW have to get lucky, make good decisions, work hard and need to continue to do so on a regular basis.

4:17, you deserve something else...

At my firm we're all asked to contribute $50 bucks for a general fund for gifts for the staff and then we're expected to give gifts to our individual secretaries on top of that. As a first year (class of '07) I ask virtually nothing of my secretary and she always acts as though my tiny tasks are a major inconvenience, but I won't rock the boat and I'll cough up a small gift. If nothing else, she's less likely to bad mouth me to more senior attorneys, right?

At my firm we're all asked to contribute $50 bucks for a general fund for gifts for the staff and then we're expected to give gifts to our individual secretaries on top of that. As a first year (class of '07) I ask virtually nothing of my secretary (who seems to be here only half the time for a number of different reasons) and she often acts as though my tiny tasks are a major inconvenience, but I won't rock the boat and I'll cough up a small gift. If nothing else, she's less likely to bad mouth me to more senior attorneys, right?

What's with all the cost-benefit? It's Christmas, you cheap bastards!

"These ladies aren't starvin' to death. They make minimum wage"

Nice work, sexist asshole!

4:17/4:18, you're absolutely right. Unlike apparently most of the posters here, I am not so deluded to think that my earning almost 200k a year has nothing to do with 1) my solvent and supportive parents, 2) my white skin, 3) my good looks, or 4) my intelligence (which I did not *earn* but rather was LUCKY enough to be born with). And, for that matter, my status as a natural-born US citizen. People like me are the ones those in power give opportunities to. It's fucked up and unfair, but it's the way it is. I rose to the top in very large part because of hard work, and in another very large part because of the sheer accident of birth. Maybe .00001% of you *actually* had no unfair advantages and somehow beat the odds and made it up here. Those few of you have my genuine respect. 99.99999% of the population goes on to live life within the range of possibilities available to them at the moment they're expelled from mommy's uterus. You get some credit for getting nearer the top of that range, rather than nearer the bottom. But you don't get credit for the fact that this range gives you much better possibilities than the vast majority of the world has.

So if you don't want to give your secretaries expensive gifts, don't. There is no law making you do it. You're not going to get fired if you don't give your secretary a gift. Will your secretary think you're a cheap bastard? Yes, and for good reason. Will your colleagues think you're a cheap bastard? Quite possible. But you've still got the choice. You are all absolutely right that a gift is something you choose to give, not something you have to give. If you resent gift-giving, don't do it. If you don't care what people think about you, there's no reason to give something you don't want to give. If you do care what people think about you, then why are you such an asshole?

I think what many of us chafe at is the suggestion that we are assholes for being reluctant to give an expensive gift to someone who is no more helpful than a complete stranger.

Point of order 02:06 PM. You sound like a trolling secretary. Secretaries don't work WITH us, they works for us -- if, that is, you have a secretary and aren't, in fact, a secretary.

Here's how we know why: you never mentioned in your post 02:06 PM that your sec would be expected to get YOU anything for the Holidays. In other words, because biglaw secretaries aren't over at Underthelaw.com discussing what to get their lawyers, they don't work WITH us, they work FOR us.

(Further evidence of this fact came on my first week at biglaw about 3 years back, when my secretary knocked on my closed door and asked if I'd sign her leave form; the other lawyers she worked FOR had already done so, and she needed my signature to take off. I don't ASK HER to take leave.)

4:06--I took my secretary out to lunch a couple times duringt he summer. It was fun, I learned some gossip, and we had a good time. As general advice, don't try to expense the lunch. Pay for it yourself.

Lat,

Have you seen the new S&C website. What's up with the pics of each office? I'm not sure I like the new site compared to the prior one with photos of mountain peaks from across the globe.

Maybe do a thread on whether that helps or hurts recruiting/image, etc?

Black’s Law Dictionary defines “gratuity” as “something acquired or otherwise received without bargain or inducement. Something given freely or without recompense; a gift. Something voluntarily given in return for a favor or especially a service, hence, a bounty; a tip; a bribe.”

hmm....

4:06--I took my secretary out to lunch a couple times during the summer. It was fun, I learned some gossip, and we had a good time. As general advice, don't try to expense the lunch. Pay for it yourself.

My secretary did nothing other than my travel reimbursements. I gave her a $50 gift card. Never received a thank you.

I was in a V60 firm not in NYC. I thought this was a reasonable gift given my non-use. Her response, however, I found to be less than reasonable.

4:49 - You couldn't be more right.

4:44 - Interesting post.

My secretary is not very helpful. I gave her a $50 gift certificate last year. Our paralegals however are intelligent and helpful. I give them small gift cards or take them out for lunch.

does this chart apply to secretaries who you use for sex but who are otherwise not specifically assigned to you?

All of the secretaries at my firm are sweet as pie, except mine. I try to kill her with kindness, but she's still a bitch most of the time. I get the impression her life sucks, but that doesn't make her attitude appreciably more bearable. Maybe I should give all of the secreatries besides her a Christmas gift? They're surely nicer to talk to.

My secretary is an idiot. She screws everything up - even the simpliest of tasks. I guess I should be fair and still give her some cash.

My secretary is an idiot. She screws everything up - even the simpliest of tasks. I guess I should be fair and still give her some cash.

4:49 - true, except that the gift should be thought of as insurance. An assistant who is no more helpful than a stranger right now - when she/he likes you - can make your life hell later if you don't buy that insurance with the Christmas gift. Keep on the assistant's good side and you won't be screwing yourself because you thought it was "unfair" not to give this forced "gift". These are the voluntary rules of the game.

How is a stupid Amex gift card more "tasteful"? It has fees, it expires. Go to the bank and get some C notes.

4:49, what makes you assholes is that you're treating what to you is a pittance like a huge sum of money when it comes to spending it on someone *else*. Even taking debt into account, you still make gobs of money. Even if you don't routinely spend extravagantly on nights out with friends, etc., $100 or so is *still* quite simply *not* a lot of money. It just isn't.

When you guys talk like this, you sound an awful lot like whiny partners who don't want to pony up for bonuses/pay raises. To them, 20k or something is not a huge amount, but to us, it's a big deal.

4:53, the new S&C website looks terrible. Seriously. It's like going to Wikipedia.

I hope they didn't pay a lot for that TTT redesign.

Does she get a little something extra if you're bangin' her?

DO you give them more if thier hot?

5:13, that's simply not always true. $100 can be an awful lot of money to any associate who has: (1) kid(s) (or a kid on the way); (2) a spouse who does not work or does not make very much; (3) any dependent relatives or other familial obligations; or (4) $150k in loans.

It's not fair to assume that for EVERY associate, $100 is nothing. Of course associates are making a lot of money, but not everyone is in the same circumstances, and not everyone is in a position to pay $100 to a secretary, in addition to the holiday gifts that must be given to everyone else in their life.

Why can't the firm pay the secretaries their holiday bonuses? At many firms, secretaries simply answer the phones. If anyone should get extra bonuses, it should be the paralegals, who seem to be the ones really getting screwed here.

All of the secretaries at my firm are sweet as pie, except mine. I try to kill her with kindness, but she's still a bitch most of the time. I get the impression her life sucks, but that doesn't make her attitude appreciably more bearable. Maybe I should give all of the secreatries besides her a Christmas gift? They're surely nicer to talk to.

5:03
$50 victoria secret gift card is appropriate

5:22, not only did you spell "their" incorrectly, but it's the wrong word. Maybe you should give a big gift to your secretary in the hopes that she'll teach you how to write.

So what DO you give your secretary if you are being asked to leave your firm? You should get anything? Money is tight now that I am leaving soon, no bonus, and moving to another firm.

5:26: Being generous to a secretary to the exclusion of others does seem a bit outmoded. There are older attorneys at my firm who depend heavily on their secretaries, while the newer associates depend on a bunch of different staff members.

5:13, you are either kidding or you lack a shred of business sense. $100 is a large sum of money whether you make $160K or $160 million a year. If partners had your attitude we'd all be in trouble.

5:36...I'd suggest a flaming sack of dog excrement.

sorry to say, but unless you have no debt, you are not rich. I don't care what it says on your paycheck. I do not throw around C-notes without thinking.

I am Class of 2006 and I am giving my secretary a pro forma gift of $150, despite the fact that she sucks and is barely there. If she were stellar, I would give double that.

Even members of my immediate family don't spend anywhere close to $100 on each other for Christmas. What is wrong with people these days?

If you want to be that generous, then fine. But you shouldn't pressure everyone else around you to do the same.

Not all Biglaw associates are living the high life. I've got an astronomical amount of student loans (try $290k - my monthly MINIMUM loan payments total $2400). So $100 or $200 IS a lot of money to me.

It will be several years before I can save enough for a down payment on a tiny condo, let alone paying my student loans off (that will be 15-20 years down the road, if I can keep earning a Biglaw level salary). You won't find a lot of associates talking about their financial constraints, but there are plenty of us who hand most of our paychecks to Sallie Mae and live more modestly than most support staff.

So I don't think that I should give my secretary hundreds of dollars or a very expensive gift just because I make more money than she does. Just because she earns less than me doesn’t make her a charity case.

She chooses to work 30-35 hours per week (taking an hour lunch every day), never works past 5 or on weekends, and earns $70,000 plus a generous bonus (unlike the associates) and overtime. She has ample time outside of work (and sometimes at work) for her family, friends, and outside interests.

I work in Biglaw and earn a market salary (but a subpar bonus), but I work 55-75 hours per week (never taking lunch) including countless nights and weekends. This means I don't have time for friends, family, or outside interests. 1/4 of my salary goes straight to student loans (not to mention rent, living expenses, and credit cards, which makes it near impossible to save for a home).

That being said, I think $75-$100 is appropriate to spend on your secretary as a jr. associate if she has been decent (that’s about what I spend on family gifts). If I had a rock star secretary, on the other hand, I’d be so grateful I’d triple that.

Nothing sickens me more than having to part with my sweet hard-earned cash. It's not enough I get screwed by the AMT and bought a house during the peak of the housing boom, now I've got to just give more money away. What's next universal health care? Whatever happened to working for your money. I hate having to pretend to be generous when in truth I am really cheap and would prefer never to give anyone anthything, especially charities, war veterans or girl scouts. When does it end???

I'm a 2006 grad with no student loans. My secretary gave me a gift last year and will probably do so this year as well. Last year I got her a $50 bottle of wine, but this year I think I'll give her $100 dollars cash and some print-outs of funny LOL Cats pictures.

Whether or not she does a lot of work for me (she doesn't, but she's there when I need her), It's just plain good manners to get your secretary a holiday gift.

5:56, cry me a river.

You should have gone to state school.

Your failure to do so is inexcusable unless: (a) you're an idiot who needs to hide among the herd at a PRESTIGIOUS private school in order to be considered employable; (b) you're an idiot who was unable to calculate in advance the cost of his/her education; or (c) both (a) and (b).

In either event, your whining is pathetic. Grow a pair.

Why does everybody think secretaries and other support staff are the lowly poor? And why does everyone think associates have tons of money to blow on booze?

Believe it or not there are associates, who despite making $200k or so a year, are not living lavishly. Instead they are using their money to support family members and extended relatives. My secretary's husband is a pediatrician. From all indications, she and her husband are quite comfortable. I, on the other hand, come from the very third world, and despite making almost 200k a year, I have many relatives back home who need help with school fees etc. And of course, I'm not getting a christmas break from Salli Mae. So for me, anything over a $100 to my secretary (class of '05) makes a significant dent on my christmas budget, and i am certainly not going to spend more on her than i do on my immediate relatives.

Scrooge,

A fool and his money are soon parted.

While you're at it, buy some f~cking karma.

I say you should give $100 cash to each of the mailroom guys, every cleaning lady, the security guys in the lobby, the maintenance guy who changes lightbulbs, everyone in word processing, anyone associated with Seamless Web, the night paralegals, the day paralegals, any associate who is junior to you, next year's summer associates, last year's summer associates, and if you have a spare $100 after all of that, light it on fire while singing "Deck the Halls."

6:08, you are obviously the exception to me, and I hereby grant you permission to break me.

Dear 6:08,

Please see comment at 6:07 above, applicable to you as well as 5:56, which suggests, in pertinent part, that: "(a) you're an idiot who needs to hide among the herd at a PRESTIGIOUS private school in order to be considered employable; (b) you're an idiot who was unable to calculate in advance the cost of his/her education; or (c) both (a) and (b)."

Well, I'm convinced. I'll be giving my secretary a Cristal bath this year while blowing confetti made from $100 bills at her with an industrial shredder. Sure is nice to be a pro-fessional.

6:15, even shitty private schools like Fordham and Loyola are just as expensive. Do you know anything at all about law school tuition?

6:11 LMFAO ROTFF

6:15 - I actually attended a state school and my monthly loan payments are quite manageable ($500). My post was on the burdens of familial obligations and how that affects what i'll spend on my secretary. I don't see the relevance of your response to mine. Thanks.

6:15, I think I know you!! Are you Juantan Angelino?

6:20,

Why would anyone pay 6-figures to attend a *shitty* private school like Fordham or Loyola?

Or rather, more to wit, why would any BigLaw firm *hire* anyone who would pay 6-figures to attend a *shitty* private school like Fordham or Loyola? Isn't that prima facie evidence of--as the original post at 6:07 sets forth--situation (a), (b), or (c)?

Wait, 6:21, if your monthly loan payments, which you said constitute 1/4 of your sallary, are $500, then you're only making 2K a month, 24K a year. This is obviously impossible.

This thread is hilarious!

My V10 firm in NYC will be extremely crass this year -- offering me a year-end "tip" of $115,000 that will be presented to me in the form of a check -- how vulgar! And how dare the firm think it can buy my loyalty with a cash gift? Frankly, a nice card and some flowers would give me a great deal more pleasure, and let me know that the firm accords me the respect I deserve.

Lavish cash "gifts" for secretaries who:

(a) ignore you and/or treat you poorly;

(b) f^&k up any task you give them; and/or

(c) play solitaire/shop online/update their myspace account/make personal calls all day while in the process of either (a) or (b) are NOT "costs" of anybody's education, nor are they any type of legitimate expense of working in Biglaw (such as dry cleaning).

I don't complaint about making my loan payments. My education and resulting employment have been worth every penny and then some. But I'm not going to squander my limited extra cash by giving my secretary hundreds of dollars for Christmas when she doesn't even answer my phone.

at my firm, it's expected that you give them an eight-ball of coke for every year of your seniority. to show their appreciation, they're suppose to let you do a line off their ass.

At 6:28 -- you might be mixing up posts -- i never said my monthly loan payments make up 1/4 of my monthly salary.

Those of you with spouses need to quit whining about how, "oh, woe is me, I have to care for my spouse." A lot of us have to take care of ALL of our own shit ALL the time with NO help from anyone. That means, ALL the cleaning ALL the time, ALL the cooking ALL the time, ALL the grocery shopping ALL the time, ALL the car repair ALL the time, ALL the errands ALL the time, and we don't even get laid to boot. We would like to, but how are we supposed to find the fucking time to meet and get to know someone well enough for fucking to ensue? You at least have the benefit of already knowing each other and getting over the awkward disease and pregnancy talks. Those of you with spouses have either additional income, or a second body with extra time to take care of all the stupid shit I never have time to take care of. So screw you and your "I have to care for a family" bullshit. I would LOVE a family to care for -- I could even use them as an excuse to leave work at a decent hour like most of you do, constantly, leaving me to finish your work.

at 6:41: are you just ranting or is your post at all related to the topic at hand?

6:41 --

Seriously awesome post.

6:32,

How is it that a $100-200 year-end "thank you" can be considered "lavish" with respect to your very PRESTIGIOUS private legal education?

Why is it that stupid poors so love the cache of an Ivy law/biz school. Go if you can afford it. Skip it if you can't and you're smart enough to stand on your own merits.
That said, it seems obvious that you neither: (a) attended an Ivy as undergrad; nor (b) had the financial wherewithal to do so.

And yet you whine. How gauche!

6:44, it's related because there are people on here complaining that they can't "afford" a hundred bucks for their secretaries because they have spouses or families to take care of. At least with respect to the spouses part, I call bullshit. The value of having someone who could even just once a MONTH give me a hand with stupid, mundane tasks, would be worth way more than the added "cost" of extra food and gas. Probably at *least* a hundred bucks more.

6:47, thanks.

4:18/4:44 THANK YOU. These a$$holes complaining about their debts don't realize how lucky they are.

6:48 - Stupid poors at my high school used to think common sense and fiscal prudence were gauche all the time, it was no big deal.

Yeah.. That's more than my wife is getting, ok? If my secretary needs a couple hundred in holiday bonus the partners should pony up.

If I had continued at my pre-lawschool $45,000/year (with some overtime) job, I would be in much better financial shape than I am as an associate. As it is, I'm deep into six figures in debt and pay $2,000/month as a *minimum* student loan payment. And I can pretty much forget ever buying real estate, at least for the next 7 years or so. The size of my paycheck does not reveal my true financial position. (For the record: I am glad that I went to law school and happy that I became an attorney.)

This is not to discourage generosity or gift giving. My intent is simply to point out that big firm associates aren't all rich, no matter what their salaries may be. Those of us who paid for undergrad and law school by taking out loans pay several thousand in interest per year (thanks, Sallie Mae, for that usurious interest rate!). Plus, as a few other posters here have pointed out, big law firm attrition rates are extremely high, whether by choice, burnout, or being let go, so there's very little guarantee that our jobs and salaries will be around for us for any long period of time.

Which is why any expectation of/for gifts is terribly inappropriate and unprofessional. I'm giving a gift to say thank you, not because I should have to bribe a fellow professional into doing their job or into doing it well. I want to give a gift because giving makes me happy, not because I need to do so to stop others from bad mouthing me.

Firms pay salaries and bonuses, which are taxed. Anything coming from associates or partners is a *gift* -- given freely, and with gratitude and friendship. Certainly, there are nuances to the culture of gift giving (cash tips common in NYC would be highly inappropriate in CA) which are great to share. But sending out a table of expected donation/gift amounts is pretty outrageous and very selfish. People should not be cutting back on gifts to their father to keep up appearances at their fancy schmancy law office. That's just insane.

Give a kind, thoughtful, and generous gift -- based on your ability to do so -- to your secretary if s/he helps and supports you. On that note, Visa and Amex charge fees and sometimes decrease in value due to non-use, so good old fashioned gift certificates (restaurants, spas, clothing places, etc) are great ideas.

6:41, I am so with you, too. There are times I'm barely hanging on (apartment a mess, refrigerator empty, dry cleaning undone). Another person to help split any of these daily tasks would be so, so, so wonderful.

(Not to mention that part about the single associates often being the ones to be tagged to travel or for overtime; fortunately, my firm is pretty even-handed with that stuff.)

6:55 -- Best post yet. I'm in the same boat. My thoughts exactly.

6:55,

so, you're saying that you're entitled to abstain from showing your appreciation to your support staff because you can't manage your personal finances?

dear stupid poors,

just give your secretary a goddamned C-note. your peers will call you cheap, but at least we'll be able to put this thread behind us.

have some dignity you sick f~cks![fn1]

[fn1] - if your dignity is worth less than a hundred bucks, then, by all means, please keep the cash for yourself.

6:41 Quit crying. With all the money you don't spend on supporting a family you can pay someone to do those tasks for you. I think you're just angry that you never get laid (of course you could pay someone for that too). And somehow I doubt your "dry spell" has much to do with your schedule.

6:41 / 6:51 --

No prob. I empathize with a lot of what you wrote.

7:03 --

It's like you're describing my apartment.
____

I'm doing gift cards plus maybe nice flowers / chocolate for my secretary.

The lack of ability to make loan payments freakin' astonishes me. I was $120k in the hole (to start), I made $40k last year, and am making $80k this year, and am currently paying 3x the payment for my 20-year private loans per month. And I have $8k in the bank.

What are you people spending money on? Give me one year in biglaw, and the private half of my debt will be gone.

(And yes, I recognize that some people do have a truly obscene amount of debt. But calculate how much interest you'll save by dumping $100 into a loan payment instead of a gift for your secretary. Or switch from lattes to americanos.)

PS--Why does no one else get the reference to "Reservoir Dogs"?

No, what I am saying is that expecting a gift of a certain amount lacks class and is in poor taste.

Gift giving is about being generous based on *your* position and ability to do so, not based on others' expectations.

Not to mention an expected cash gift is the functional equivalent of a tip or bonus, both of which should be claimed as taxable income, and the latter of which should be paid for by the firm.

Secretaries are already some of the most grossly overpaid people in law firms when you look at their hours, education attainment, and level of difficulty. Do they really need to hit up the people whose existence gave them their cushy jobs for another $2K of tax-free cash and goods?

Maybe a few hundred would be justified as a performance bonus if my secretary really made my life truly wonderful in some way, hell, if I was having an affair and my secretary help me hide it, the secretary would be worth thousands to me. But since I don't have that kind of dirty laundry and get my own non-Flavia brew every morning, why should this relic from the days of typewriters and telegrams get more of my after-tax dollars than members of my family or the paralegal pounding the pavement looking for a state court docket?

Secretaries probably go away altogether once their technophobic partners retire. I wouldn't mind it happening sooner.

i'm astounded that many of the above commenters seem to spend less than $100-200 dollars that dignity and holiday cheer suggest they give their secretary.

how to say this? COLLEAGUES, STAY THE FUCK OUT OF MY FINANCES! IF I WANT TO GET A GIFT FOR ANYONE AT THE OFFICE I'LL DO IT MYSELF! MIND YOUR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS!

thanks

7:23, if you have kids, and have a nanny (because your wife also works), childcare alone will cost you $3k a month. Add another $3k for renting a 2 bedroom apartment (you know, since you have at least you, your spouse, and a child), plus the added food expenses, and you're spending about $8k on necessities -- before you even get to paying loans. My wife and I are both biglaw attorneys, but the only money we are or will ever save for, e.g., a down payment on a house, comes from bonuses. Otherwise, we are check-to-check (and that's without ever going out to dinner or bars). And eat a dick about parents leaving singles with extra work--we'll both bill over 2400 this year, through no choice of our own.

As a gov't lawyer, my secretary makes about $5k more than I do per year and she has never gotten me a damn thing.

8:46 p.m.: Both biglaw must = at least $400,000 a year total = $33,000 / month times .6 = about $20,000 after tax.

After basic expenses including food (which is one of the bigger expenses if you live in NY), that leaves you with about $10,000 take home each month.

Assuming you're biglaw for several years out, then you must have got a small bundle saved.

I can't help but laugh at these stingy @$$holes who whine about being expected to give $100 gifts to their secretaries. In life's ironic sense of humor, you will spend the rest of your lives feeling the pressures of money bearing down on you and will always be jealous and bitter.

The reality of life is that generous people who do not get too worked about money end up being happier and *gasp* more successful. It's not that you give your secretary so that she'll be nice to you and help you get ahead rather than holding you back. Instead, it's that generous people are more happy and people like them more (not just because they think they might get something from them, but because they have better personalities).

Sadly, you won't even agree with what I am saying and will continue making your way down the well-trodden path to a life of self-absorption and gloominess.

9:40, agreed. 8:46, I feel no pity for you or the fact that you appear to squander about 120k a year.

9:14, I do pity you. That sucks. Really and truly.

Last!

The use of the Secretary movie poster was in poor taste.

This table was probably drafted by a secretary -- although certainly not mine, as it is not fraught with spelling and formatting errors. Furthermore, the table seems to be complete and timely.

Her gift depends on a number of pertinent factors including quality of work, cheery disposition and whether she is responsive to my sexual advances.

Wow you guys are cheap, I tip my caddies more than that table for 3.5 hrs of work.

No, 9:40, it's about $16500 after tax. And monthly necessities (including minimum loan payments, which you seem to have ignored) are about $13000. So no one's squandering $10k a month, but thanks. With that whopping $3500 a month, we might have a down payment on a crappy 2 bedroom fixer-upper in 5 years. So a few hundred bucks isn't nothing. But I do appreciate the condescension and amateur financial planning from someone who's probably in his or her first year of a job ever, really.

So where on that chart do new 2007 grads fall (who have been working only a few months now)?

2007, you should give your secretary at least $60k. Otherwise, you are stingy and pathetic and will never make partner or be happy in life. Hope this helps.

Not so fast 12:49. Just wait til your kid is school age and you get to shell out $16k for preschool and then $30k for k-12. Double it for two kids. You might be 10 years away from that down payment. Welcome to the real world.

right, the nanny was cheap comparatively - the kiddos increase in cost over time.
private school + after school care if both parents are working.
ouch.

8:46/12:49, your combined bonuses alone will get you way more than "a crappy 2 bedroom fixer-upper in 5 years." The $3,500 a month is 100% disposable. And by the way, who has 13K of expenses per month? You're living it up and could probably USE some amateur financial planning. Also, you're a bad father.

I need some gift suggestions. I have a primary assistance who is lousy and does virtually nothing for me. She will get the same $100 she's gotten for two years. But there's another assistance who voluntarily helps me, is pleasant and actually remembered my birthday and gave me flowers, unlike my assistant. I want to give her something but I don't think money is appropriate. And I don't think she eats chocolate or other sweets. And this is California - what is a scarf and what is it used for again? I looked at her desk for clues and she has no personal items at all. All I know is that she is very family oriented, and spends a lot of time with her grandchildren. Any ideas? I was thinking of picture frames or one of those digital picture things, but then again, if she doesn't have pictures all over her desk now, maybe she's not the kind of person who likes to put up pictures. I'm really stumped - suggestions appreciated.

Personally, I think it's best to view the Christmas gift as just that -- a gift. Don't give cash or treat it as a bonus. Give a thing. I think that the easiest way to go about secretary gifts is gift cards/certificates. Yes, it's only a step above cash but there is some thought involved. A card to Borders or Barnes & Noble is actually pretty great, because you can buy books, movies, music or other little things. Alternately, one year, me and a couple other associates pooled up $200 and got our secretary a gift certificate to a nearby day spa - figured that she'd enjoy a massage or facial or something along those lines (and she did actually love the gift).

"I would LOVE a family to care for -- I could even use them as an excuse to leave work at a decent hour like most of you do, constantly, leaving me to finish your work."

Yes, and you'll be held in higher regard and get a higher bonus for your martyrdom. Please shut the fuck up.

The problem is not a sense of entitlement. My secretary is great, but that doesn't mean she's "entitled" to $100+ of my salary. Christmas giving is not a means of income redistribution. The problem is this feels like anything but a gift. I shouldn't have to consult with others and make sure we all match each other to avoid a negative reputation. The amount of an appropriate gift is not tied to salary. Christmas gifts should come from the heart, not from some table or a feeling that you "must" give a certain amount. The "gift" is just a pretext for extra compensation. I don't like pretending it's a gift. And my family members have asked for things in a much lower range than the numbers discussed here despite my change in circumstances. But how can I spend less on my mother than I do on my secretary?

I have a secretary assigned to me, but have a much better relationship with one of the secretaries in her pool. Any advice on giving gifts to a whole pool without making my assigned secretary feel unimportant (and without bankrupting me)?

I've been a legal assistant for 20 years and have worked for a lot of attorneys during that time. And I must say that after reading this site for awhile, not just this thread (although it makes it much more obvious) but all of the others as well, most of you are socially-retarded jags. Yes, there are some bad, and even worthless, assistants but there are also many bad, and usually worthless, attorneys that they work for. Most often, you get out what you put in. If you're an ass and treat your secretary badly or like he/she is dirt beneath your feet, you're going to get the same treatment in return. If you think your secretary is a bad one, you might want to analyze yourself and how you treat her and others around you. Perhaps the problem isn't the secretary but YOU.

I currently work for someone who treats me well, respects me, and not only acknowledges the fact that I have a brain but actually makes use of it. He encouraged me to get my paralegal certificate, although it was by mutual agreement that while I could take on paralegal assignments, I would not be reassigned away from him. I read up on case law that affects things we are working on and we discuss them at length, and he listens to my opinions and analysis of them. He's quick to give credit when its due. He refers other attorneys to me when they have questions about various court rules and procedures, where to find information, etc. I try to do as much as possible as far as things like learning the mundane court rules so he can concentrate on writing winning briefs and not worry about the details. We share books with each other, primarily on the SCOTUS justices these days, and discuss our impressions. Unlike the majority of attorneys I've worked for over the years, he treats me like an equal and not a piece of office equipment such as a fax machine or chair.

For Christmas, he usually puts some thought into it. What I get is much lower in value than the chart listed above, but for me, its the thought that counts. And I try to do the same for him. I always get him something nice (at least as far as my miniscule income can afford) for Christmas, and also get him a small gift for his birthday. Periodically throughout the year, if I see something I think he might like or think is funny, I get it for him. He occasionally takes me out to a nice lunch, such as on my birthday or when we win a decision.

I would walk through fire for him, and it has nothing to do with money. And no, for those of you scumbags out there, I don't sleep with him either. Unfortunately, as evidenced here, great bosses are rare and hard for us peons to find.

My secretary is a perfectly pleasant human being, but she has literally done nothing for me, ever.

I'm giving her a Christmas bonus because it's firm culture, but I don't feel I "owe" her anymore than I owe the random temps that covered her desk during her many, many absences over my 4 months at this firm (who typically have done more work for me).

I would imagine that the partner she calls "Mr. ______," while she calls me by my first name, should be happy to reward her generously for devoting 90% of her work hours to him (the other 10% being devoted to her personal business).

Dear LitAssistant-- I'm sure most of the so-called cheapskates here would have a completely different outlook on gift giving if they had an assistant like you. I have been on both side of the desk (worked as a paralegal before law school) and I see your point about respect in the office working both ways. But some secretaries are truly useless and unhelpful and it is not always payback for a boss who is condescending. For this type of assistant, the "mandatory" expensive gift giving mentality is quite honestly offensive.

This is BULLSHIT! The firm is meant to pay the secretary to do their job, just like they pay associates to do their job. You don't see partners giving associates a little extra cash on the side.

The firms should just include any such amounts in a secretaries bonus, or just pay the secretaries more.

I can't believe employees are so willing to hand over cash to other employees instead of demanding the employer does it like they are meant to.

What happens to those who have financial problems (student loans, sick relatives to support etc) and would rather not pay - do they end up getting bad work from their secretary? If so its almost like bribery or extortion.

As for differentiating between good and bad secretaries - fire those who are bad, keep those that are okay, and get the firm to give bonuses to those who are exceptional - EASY SOLUTION.

I'm a legal secretary who's planning on becoming a lawyer. My college friends work as paralegals, or are current law students. To tell the truth, most of you are cheap. CHEAP. A lot of firms don't give staff "gifts" or a holiday bonus. And as someone who is an actual staff member, yes, the memory of that $200+ gift goes a long way throughout the year. My friends and co-workers can attest to this. We don't always get to pick who we work for either, jerks and all. No one wants the cheap associate. It shows that you don't care, which in turn, makes us not care.

wait, i have to tip my doorman? i pay $4K a month rent in this bldg, now i'm supposed to shell out another $1K on the doormen and other staff here? you've got to be kidding me.

Dear LitAssistant -- most of the people posting on this site are junior associates. when i was a junior associate I shuffled through various secretaries and almost every one was quick to point out that my work was not as important as the more senior people. they never hustled and never ever offered to stay late for me (but they did for others). one even audibly bitched about my giving her work. in that context, having peers attempt to pressure me into enabling this behavior was nothing short of extortion.

DO YOU HAVE TO GIVE A GIFT IF YOUR FIRM ALREADY PAYS HER A BONUS????

Oh, and as a sidenote, the $200+ was a combination of both of the attorneys I work for, not $200+ each. I'd only worked for them for a year. And they each got a nice bottle of wine with a card from me. And if she already gets a bonus from the firm, if you want, get something personal from you such as a bottle of wine, etc. It is a nice touch. And lots of assistants aren't lazy and horrible. I've pulled some 36 hour days.

What do secretaries do "professionally" with their time anyway? At my firm they're not allowed to do research. What do they do with their time other than answer phone calls, book flights, do billing and work on time sheets?

I work in the library and also do some secretarial training. Most secretaries seem quite nice, but also pretty useless. I understand that some of them do some docketing type stuff but we have a preexisting docketing department. Ditto document production. Ditto paralegal type work. Ditto research.

The partners here use them to send (garbled) research requests that require repeated followups for clarification. The associates send the requests directly and often get an faster response to their query.

I understand and fully acknowledge that there are some crappy secretaries. I work with some. But most here seem to be tarring us all with the same brush, and that's not fair. There are some of us who work very hard for our assigned attorneys, and as some of you have mentioned, even our non-assigned attorneys. I have two assigned attorneys right now, neither of which treat me badly. Both have been attorneys for quite some time. Both are upper tier partners and one of them is the head of his section. But age and experience doesn't really play into it much, in my experience. I've worked with some long-time attorneys, including upper tier partners, who were absolutely wretched human beings. And I've worked with some brand new, just graduated and/or passed the bar attorneys who were very pleasant to work for. And everyone in between.

Personally, I don't understand all of the comments and attitudes about this being extortion. I thought we were talking about Christmas GIFTS. Last year, I also worked for a young attorney and didn't do much for him. Not because I didn't want to but because he was more self-reliant and rarely asked me to do anything. For Christmas last year, he gave me a $30 gift certificate for Amazon, because he knew I order from them quite often. He put a little thought into it and came up with something that I would make use of, and I appreciated it even if it wasn't $250 cash in my sweaty palm. All it takes to make some of us happy is a little thought, a little consideration, and not a whole lot of expense.

One year, our department head bought every secretary in the department a bottle of Dom out of his own pocket and left it in our chair with a personally written note thanking us for our contributions for the year. Last year, he got us each a $100 gift card from Crate & Barrel. Things like this are not considered part of our salary, nor should it be. Its a gift. If you don't feel like giving one, don't. I'm not sure how one goes about "deserving" a gift in the first place. But be forewarned, we peons network with each other, not only in-house but also with others around town. Treat one of us shabbily and word will get around.

I understand and fully acknowledge that there are some crappy secretaries. I work with some. But most here seem to be tarring us all with the same brush, and that's not fair. There are some of us who work very hard for our assigned attorneys, and as some of you have mentioned, even our non-assigned attorneys. I have two assigned attorneys right now, neither of which treat me badly. Both have been attorneys for quite some time. Both are upper tier partners and one of them is the head of his section. But age and experience doesn't really play into it much, in my experience. I've worked with some long-time attorneys, including upper tier partners, who were absolutely wretched human beings. And I've worked with some brand new, just graduated and/or passed the bar attorneys who were very pleasant to work for. And everyone in between.

Personally, I don't understand all of the comments and attitudes about this being extortion. I thought we were talking about Christmas GIFTS. Last year, I also worked for a young attorney and didn't do much for him. Not because I didn't want to but because he was more self-reliant and rarely asked me to do anything. For Christmas last year, he gave me a $30 gift certificate for Amazon, because he knew I order from them quite often. He put a little thought into it and came up with something that I would make use of, and I appreciated it even if it wasn't $250 cash in my sweaty palm. All it takes to make some of us happy is a little thought, a little consideration, and not a whole lot of expense.

One year, our department head bought every secretary in the department a bottle of Dom out of his own pocket and left it in our chair with a personally written note thanking us for our contributions for the year. Last year, he got us each a $100 gift card from Crate & Barrel. Things like this are not considered part of our salary, nor should it be. Its a gift. If you don't feel like giving one, don't. I'm not sure how one goes about "deserving" a gift in the first place. But be forewarned, we peons network with each other, not only in-house but also with others around town. Treat one of us shabbily and word will get around.

I understand and fully acknowledge that there are some crappy secretaries. I work with some. But most here seem to be tarring us all with the same brush, and that's not fair. There are some of us who work very hard for our assigned attorneys, and as some of you have mentioned, even our non-assigned attorneys. I have two assigned attorneys right now, neither of which treat me badly. Both have been attorneys for quite some time. Both are upper tier partners and one of them is the head of his section. But age and experience doesn't really play into it much, in my experience. I've worked with some long-time attorneys, including upper tier partners, who were absolutely wretched human beings. And I've worked with some brand new, just graduated and/or passed the bar attorneys who were very pleasant to work for. And everyone in between.

Personally, I don't understand all of the comments and attitudes about this being extortion. I thought we were talking about Christmas GIFTS. Last year, I also worked for a young attorney and didn't do much for him. Not because I didn't want to but because he was more self-reliant and rarely asked me to do anything. For Christmas last year, he gave me a $30 gift certificate for Amazon, because he knew I order from them quite often. He put a little thought into it and came up with something that I would make use of, and I appreciated it even if it wasn't $250 cash in my sweaty palm. All it takes to make some of us happy is a little thought, a little consideration, and not a whole lot of expense.

One year, our department head bought every secretary in the department a bottle of Dom out of his own pocket and left it in our chair with a personally written note thanking us for our contributions for the year. Last year, he got us each a $100 gift card from Crate & Barrel. Things like this are not considered part of our salary, nor should it be. Its a gift. If you don't feel like giving one, don't. I'm not sure how one goes about "deserving" a gift in the first place. But be forewarned, we peons network with each other, not only in-house but also with others around town. Treat one of us shabbily and word will get around.

WHAT WOULD DWIGHT SHROOT DO?

12/12 4:44 Anon: My prior post was a movie quote, fyi.

Satire: I know it's not in your Black's but may I recommend you look it up.

I do appreciate the fire in your belly, even if misplaced in my direction.

3:53, you're an idiot, and obviously 23 years old. If you have two kids, in school, plus aftercare because both parents are working, your school plus childcare costs alone will be about $8k/month. Now do you understand how easy it is to get to $13k without ever going out to dinner at a restaurant, ever going on any vacations, or ever stepping foot in a bar? Grow up and fuck off.

I understand and fully acknowledge that there are some crappy secretaries. I work with some. But most here seem to be tarring us all with the same brush, and that's not fair. There are some of us who work very hard for our assigned attorneys, and as some of you have mentioned, even our non-assigned attorneys. I have two assigned attorneys right now, neither of which treat me badly. Both have been attorneys for quite some time. Both are upper tier partners and one of them is the head of his section. But age and experience doesn't really play into it much, in my experience. I've worked with some long-time attorneys, including upper tier partners, who were absolutely wretched human beings. And I've worked with some brand new, just graduated and/or passed the bar attorneys who were very pleasant to work for. And everyone in between.

Personally, I don't understand all of the comments and attitudes about this being extortion. I thought we were talking about Christmas GIFTS. Last year, I also worked for a young attorney and didn't do much for him. Not because I didn't want to but because he was more self-reliant and rarely asked me to do anything. For Christmas last year, he gave me a $30 gift certificate for Amazon, because he knew I order from them quite often. He put a little thought into it and came up with something that I would make use of, and I appreciated it even if it wasn't $250 cash in my sweaty palm. All it takes to make some of us happy is a little thought, a little consideration, and not a whole lot of expense.

One year, our department head bought every secretary in the department a bottle of Dom out of his own pocket and left it in our chair with a personally written note thanking us for our contributions for the year. Last year, he got us each a $100 gift card from Crate & Barrel. Things like this are not considered part of our salary, nor should it be. Its a gift. If you don't feel like giving one, don't. I'm not sure how one goes about "deserving" a gift in the first place. But be forewarned, we peons network with each other, not only in-house but also with others around town. Treat one of us shabbily and word will get around.

Holy cow, sorry about the multiple posts. I kept getting server errors and they didn't show up on refresh.

It's ok, that's why you're a lit assistant and not an attorney.

NYC biglaw here and I think $100 for for first years going up $50-$100 per year of seniority (capped at around $500) is reasonable. I also prefer gifts generally in line with the above are nicer but will do whatever my assistant prefers. My previous assistant preferred cash and got AmEx gift cards (no fee is charged to recipient if used within a year) but my current assistant likes opening gifts on Christmas day and is getting a cashmere robe and box of luxurious soaps.

Lit Asst-- Let's say you buy a house in one of those association neighborhoods where are of the maintenace is supposed to be taken care of for you (gardening, snow plowing, etc). You move into your new house waiting a few weeks for the gardener to show up and mow your lawn. He doesn't come. Then you ask the gardener to mow your lawn in a very nice way and he says sure, then puts it off and puts it off until you finally do it yourself. This process repeats itself several times until you simply stop asking the gardener to mow your lawn and start doing it yourself every week (the desired effect, from the gardener's point of view). You are young and in decent shape and so you reconcile yourself to the situation, even though you see many people on your block getting their gardening done by the staff without much fuss. Still, not a huge deal. Then, out of the blue, around Dec. 10, the gardener leaves a note in your mailbox with a "suggested" Christmas gift list. Wouldn't you find this offensive? How is this different from an unhelpful secretary demanding gifts?

1:02 - You must be some over spending waste of breath yuppie that views $50,000 volvos as "unavoidably costs." No doubt your waste of breath brats are attending elite private pre-pre-schools to boot. I am truly sorry for your upper-class life's difficulties, and by 'sorry' I mean 'suck my dick and fuck off you waste-of-breath-yuppie-whining-bitch.' Get a conscience and give your poor assistant a fucking bone.

Ridiculous, have you ever actually had any secretary, much less an unhelpful one, "demand" a gift or give you a Christmas gift list? Would it make any difference to you if it was a helpful secretary "demanding" a gift rather than an unhelpful one? Either one is rude, in my opinion. If I ever had a boss demand a gift or give me a Christmas gift list, I'd have no qualms about telling him what he could do with it.

"I'm a legal secretary who's planning on becoming a lawyer. My college friends work as paralegals, or are current law students. To tell the truth, most of you are cheap. CHEAP. A lot of firms don't give staff "gifts" or a holiday bonus."
__________________________________

That means the FIRM (i.e., your actual EMPLOYER) is cheap, not the associates, who are also employees of the firm.

Short of you providing them something above and beyond the minimum expected of someone in your position, they have no obligation to provide you additional compensation. In very few businesses are employees expected to provide "bonuses" to other employees.

This is isn't about being "cheap"; it's about the expectation that because BigLaw associates make "a lot of money," they are obligated to give some token of appreciation to staff who may have done absolutely nothing to merit their appreciation.

Most BigLaw employees make "a lot of money" relative to other people in their respective professions--does that mean that they are thus obligated to tip service people even when they haven't provided a service? Do you, since you likely make "a lot of money" vis-a-vis other legal secretaries?

First year NY associates are getting, at the absolute bare minimum, a $10,000 bonus this year. That would be about a fifth of your secretary's yearly pay. Your secretary shouldn't expect anything...but saying that one one hundreth of that is too much to spend thanking your secretary is really unbelievable.

Hohoho, you motherfuckers *need* to *stop* using *astericks* to *emphasize* *random* *words*
Hohoho

3:45 LitAssistant, I'm not the poster "Ridiculous," but I think what s/he was responding to is the expectation that not only will you give gifts, you will give them in a certain amount -- and that this expectation is entirely unrelated to the relationship between the associate and the secretary.

4:24, If you read the comments, people are saying that they don't think they should be told what their "suggested or expected" gift is. Further, as many have pointed out, determining an appropriate gift based on salaries is built on a flawed assumption: Some secretaries are better off, financially, then the associates they work for.

In general, people aren't complaining about gift giving, they are complaining that:
(1) They are being told they *have* to give a gift when such an act is usually undertaken freely (lest, as LitAssistant says, they will be bad mouthed as cheap);
(2) They are being told to give this gift even where some secretaries aren't at all helpful (fortunately, not the case with mine who I like very much);
(3) They are being told how much to give without consideration of the fact that student loans, family obligations, prospects of attrition, etc., make the true financial position of an associate very different from what their pay stub may reveal;
(4) They feel pressure to give a certain amount of cash in order to keep up appearances at the office, some even cutting back on gifts to their own family members to do so; and
(5) All of this is being trumpeted in the name of "generosity" and "spirit of the season."

I don't think I'm coming at this from the position of someone who is unsympathetic, as I worked as a paralegal before law school. I didn't get any gifts from associates or partners, nor did I expect any. I think I received a $25 starbucks card and a thank you note from the firm. Frankly, my financial position was much better then than it is now (as an associate just coming off of a clerkship with lots of debt).

And yes, I will be giving my secretary a thank you gift this year, in appreciation for her help and happy attitude. But the posts on here implying that it's somehow my obligation to give a cash bonus, or that associates who don't give x amount are cheap and deserve to be trash-talked, are out of line and unprofessional. If there are bonuses to be paid, the firm should do so. When I make cash donations, they will be to charities and causes that are truly needy, and that I wish to support.

"your school plus childcare costs alone will be about $8k/month"

You see - you are completely missing the point. The point of the discussion is not making enough money to live AND pay secretaries bonus. "Paying" school means you have decided to live the "high life" of private schooling for your children. Paying for "childcare" (translation: rich couple with a live-in nanny) is also another example of living the "high life".

You, sir or ma'am. have CHOSEN how to spend your very large salaries. Private school is a choice. Having your spouse work instead of taking care of the kids is also a choice. So, instead of wining and dining, you have chosen the luxuries to be spent on your kids rather than yourself. Admirable, but still a choice.

Point is you DO have the money to pay secretary bonus and you are NOT poor. So, stop whining as if you are.

Self Disclosure: I live in westchester cty and pay $25,000 a year in taxes which takes care of schooling - schooling that is certainly no worse than your high priced private schools. You, my friend, just have to learn how to spend your $ wisely.

Good luck.

guys at my high school used to ask their secretaries for a holiday bonus...it was no big deal.

Ok 5:31, you're obviously from Texas or some place where houses cost a dollar. Have you taken a look at the quality of public schools in NYC recently? Didn't think so. Do you really think you could afford an extra room for a "live-in nanny" *plus* pay for school for two kids for $13k? You'd need about $15k to do all that. If your come-back is that I've "chosen" to work in NYC, note that the same point applies to my secretary. Thanks for coming out. But if you want to tell me some more about how an associate's salary allows you to "live the high life" with a family in NYC, please do.

5:31's argument is that you should take from your kids to give to your secretary. "Admirable."

ITA with LitAssistant. Don't tar us all with the same brush. I'm a good secretary and I appreciate recognition, whether a small, thoughtful gift from my associates or a larger cash gift from my partners. In my experience (7 years so far), my associates have given me $50-$150 each and my partners have given $500-1,000). The long-term corner office secretaries get several thousand from their partners. They don't do much for their associates, but typically get small cash gifts or gift cards. I do agree that cash is better, but if you take the time and know what your secretary likes (i.e., do you see her with Starbucks cards all the time? Get her a gift card!), she'll appreciate the thought and that may spur her into action.

I think, however, that if your secretary is really that bad, you should be talking to her instead of passive-aggressively bitching about her on a board like this and not addressing the issue. It can't hurt to have a short, polite conversation. Maybe the partner has her running from 8 - 8 every day. Maybe he won't "let her" (and YES there are plenty of these) do work for lowly associates. It couldn't hurt to ask. If she still doesn't help you, then she deserves coal in her stocking. ;)

3:22(2): If by "for free" you mean for $19.75, the service fee AmEx will charge you to order 5 cards ($3.95/each). So you are basically getting $5.25 "for free" and you can only use it at select electronics stores.

3:34(1): You can use the AmEx card on a split transaction. From their webpage:

"If you wish to use your Gift Card to purchase an item for more than the Available Funds, depending on the Merchant's policy, you may be able to use your Gift Card toward a portion of the final purchase price, and then use another form of payment to pay the balance of the final purchase price. This is called a "split tender" transaction because you would be splitting the final transaction amount between your Gift Card and another form of payment. Before you request a "split tender" transaction, please call the Customer Service Number to check your Gift Card’s Available Funds balance. Then, you must ask the Merchant if two forms of payment will be accepted for the purchase. If the Merchant agrees, first request that a specific dollar amount be placed on the other form of payment (e.g., the final transaction amount less your Available Funds balance), and then use your Gift Card to pay the remaining balance. Some retailers, particularly department stores, will only allow a "split tender" transaction if the second form of payment is cash or check. Internet and most mail order merchants do not permit "split tender" transactions. We do not guarantee that the Merchant will accept two forms of payment, such as two gift cards."

I've been a commercial lit secretary for 30 years next March. The last 14-1/2 years have been at an international firm that is one of the largest in the country. I work for 2 partners (20+ years each) and one paralegal. I don't make anywhere near $70,000. The firm gives us a small "gift" that is taxed (under $175 before taxes; the associates get this also) and we get a gift card from our individual office ($25). The idea of a mandatory gift schedule is completely wrong. It's a gift. I would sooner be treated decently all year long; I don't want someone to feel that they need to "give" me "xxx." One year, the partner I worked for gave me a small gift to open (probably under $50; I don't even remember anymore) and a plate of his wife's homemade cookies. That plate of homemade cookies was better than any monetary gift I could have been given because I didn't have the time to make cookies that year. But he treated me decently all year long; he never was too busy to answer a question or explain something to me. I knew what was going on and what had to be done on any given day. Unfortunately, he moved out of state. I would have walked through fire for him.

I am a 15 year tax paralegal with a firm that employs 80 attorneys, 20 paralegals and 50 support staff. My collections for the last three years have been far more than half of our attorneys. I have always felt like the firm should recognize this in the form of a bonus for production from the firm. What do you guys think?

I'm a legal secretary for one of the larger firms in Tampa, FL. As far as I'm concerned, associates don't owe me anything at the holidays. Last year, a first-year gave me $300. I was thrilled, of course, but even I had to admit it was too much, especially because I had only worked with her for a few months at the time.

Shareholders (or partners) are a different story. There's no excuse for not giving your assistant a sizeable monetary gift at the end of the year. Our firm pays out year-end bonuses based on seniority and merit, which usually ends up being about a week's pay for me (before taxes). At the very least, shareholders should be matching that.

Mine doesn't, despite the fact that I have to deal with him every day (he's one of those difficult types who no one else will work with), and that I'm one of the strongest assistants in the firm. Instead, once again, he gave me a $75 gift card to a local restaurant that's so pricey the gift card wouldn't even be enough to cover dinner for two.

While I am glad that someone actually thought about the small people and started this thread, as a stellar legal secretary who takes shit off of some of you arrogant nothings, I would like to add this: I am hired by the firm. I come to work to do my job. I don't expect anything from you elitist pricks! It is not necessary for you to bestow your generosity on me this Christmas or at anytime for that matter. I will say that having a little bit of class does go a long way. Hopefully some of you will get some. And to the prick who said "ef em", It is no wonder you feel that way. You probably treat your assistant/secretary poorly. You are only doing yourself a disservice.

1:51 you make accusations of condescension and yet you are condescending. You state that "I wouldn't mind a haircut (seriously, $200 isn't much to me, [sic] is to them) out of my bonus to give support staff, gasp, a professional bonus from the *firm* rather than a cash gift." So let me get this right, after announcing to the world that you spend 200 dollars on haircuts you state that you wouldn't mind giving it up if your firm makes a token gesture of equality towards those people who can't afford the luxury you denigrate.

Well, I've been in this business for 34 years. A male as a legal secretary. In my first 20 years, I rec'd nada from high-paying partners, counsel nor associates. Why? Because they usually bought flowers or took their assistants out to lunch, etc. Back in the day in Spokane, a man didn't take another man to lunch, nor give him flowers, etc. When I moved to California, there was diversity amonst partners, etc. and I started working for female attorneys. They know the value of dedication from an assistant and seem to share accordingly. Because I was a male and didn't have pretty legs to look at, I got the token gift and that was "whatever the firm was giving - was my gift." Today, times are hard and most junior partners, senior associates, etc. have school loans and mortgages to pay so I don't expect a thing.

Any comments/suggestions for 2008 Christmas gifts for secretaries?

Any comments/suggestions on 2008 Christmas gifts to secretaries?

12:02 - He's not saying he spends $200 on haircuts. He's saying he wouldn't mind shaving $200 off his pay for staff bonuses. Idiot.

Actually, what I want to know is when it is appropriate to give it to them? A little earlier if you want to give cash? A little later if it's a gift? I imagine with cash or gift certificates, earlier would be better, since they could take advantage of holiday sales and stuff.

Anybody? Anybody? Bueller?

The standard is 100 the first year and then 50 for each additional year of service to you.

I have been practicing just over 15 years, all in DC. I am a very busy partner in litigation. My secretary has been with me for nearly 10 years. She is dedicated, smart, and has a great work ethic. In the past three or four years, I have given her a check for $1,250. Before that, I think it was $1,000. She is an integral part of my practice. Although I tell her not to, she gives me about a $25 to $40 actual gift each year.

U WILL ALL BE OUT OF WORK BY THE END OF 2009.
SECRETARIES SUCK. 50 BUCKS FOR THAT!

I would like to share my two cents here. Most secretaries talk about the gifts given to them by attorneys and most of them are very nice. Once secretary I know received a Coach bag from one attorney and Versace glasses from the other. It is nice to see that some of you actually appreciate your secretaries and are very generous. I am saddened by the attorneys that don't/won't give their secretaries anything. If you think your secretary is worthless, why don't you ask for a reassignment, sometimes personalities just don't jive and if you're going around saying horrible things about your secretary, you can bet it's getting back to her. Maybe that's why she's giving you a shitty attitude. Most of us are very loyal, have good attendance records and high work ethic. If I really like my boss, I will go beyond the call of duty. Whatever it takes to make him/her look good and to make their life easier. What's most important is that I get along with the person I work for and that they appreciate me, sometimes thank you is enough. However, I like monetary gifts just like everyone else, but that's not why I show up for work. If my boss gives me a gift in these hard economic times, I realize he may have had to sacrifice something just to put a smile on my face, which makes me more loyal to him.