first!

i was first twice, losers!

What's this? Another story about non-news? Fascinating. Aside from 'firsts' and dumbass comments like mine, I declare this thread over.

I'm not looking forward to going to Cipriani in Jan., btw.

My holiday party is IN THE OFFICE CONFERENCE ROOM with beer and appetizers.

10:33, what firm are you at?

MINE TOO.

10:32 - go complain about something that costs you money

LAT - Best firm recruiting event thread???

My friend went as a platonic date to the S&C party and said it was incredibly boring, though there was good food. Great - sounds like dinner with my grandparents, no thanks.

I have vowed not to get completely plastered at my firm's holiday party. Last year I saw a female associate hump a male partner's leg and she had to pretty much find another job after that...out of sheer embarassment.

Why does the N.Y. Observer always want me to download something when I click the link? I've never done it, so, sorry Lat, not reading your articles.

A married partner made out with a paralegal at my firm's party a couple of years ago. Next thing you know, the paralegal is off to "pursue other opportunities."

willkie beats all.

Come on - let's hear some juicy stories!

Lat, nice plug to your own article.

10:48:

what part of

"Fratty Skadden is famous for its “work hard, play hard” culture—which extends to its holiday party, known as one of the wilder ones in town. Alcohol flows like Aquafina, and the dance floor is kept pitch-dark"

makes you think there is no booze at a Skadden party? was it the Aqaufina reference that threw you? i took that snippet to mean there's lots of booze.

wtf is DPW?

I guess the Wachtell kids can't bring dates because they were too busy studying in law school to get laid.

Department of Power & Water

Skadden did ban alcohol from the office for New Year's Eve (memo posted on ATL).

But of course they'd have booze at their holiday party, wouldn't they?

I think 10:48 is confusing Skadden's official holiday party with its unofficial New Year's party, at which there is apparently no booze allowed this year.

11:16,
If you have to ask, you don't need to know.

davis polk & wardwell, fool.

In terms of S&C... the article's quote from an associate does not reflect the attitude of the "staff." When the firm refers to staff, they mean only staff attorneys (degradingly referred to as litigation or corporate "analysts") and legal assistants (not secretaries or service-type positions). A few years ago everyone was invited, but the firm decided not to invite these non-associates without giving everyone notice. It definitely left a sour taste in everyone's mouth that year, and now the party is but an urban legand. Up until then everyone went to the firm's "holiday dinner" at venues such as the ritz. And they wonder why morale there is so low.... hopefully the mid-level bonus will help, if i make it that far.

Ours is at the Savoy in London, black tie. I hear we each get our own bottle of champagne before dinner...

Thanks for throwing Fried Frank and Cadwalader a bone Lat.

West Coast Representing - Firm's holiday party is at Loews Hotel in Santa Monica. Would have been nice to go, but spouses are not welcome and spending friday night (usually the only night I am not working) without my wife would suck. What is the deal with the no spouses policy?

How do you guys open the article? Mine just keeps asking me to download a file, which I obviously won't do...

Willkie's is always the most out of control. I worked there for 2 years. The secretaries take the afternoon off to get dolled up for the event. If there wasn't enough debauchery at the hotel, then everyone moves to a bar where a partner will inevitably throw down his amex to continue the party.

What about the more prestigous west coast offices? O melveny, Simpson palo alto, Latham LA, MoFo SF, etc.?

I don't have problems with being asked to download a file. It might be your firewall or something.

You can try to access the article directly through the Observer's website: www.observer.com. Lat's article is in the left column.

Black tie for Christmas parties (none of this "Holiday party" nonsense) seems to be quite standard, if not common, in London

11:39 = P-whipped

I have heard of a lot of firms that don't allow spouses/significant others. Does anyone know who these totally lame firms are?

What about the party in my pants?!

I hate that they call it a "holiday party". It is not a holiday, it is Christmas. Kris Kringle, Christmas trees, etc. The inflitration of aethist in the Christmas Season is disparaging.

11:31 - Which firm?

The Savoy is quite the Cat's Ass

Not all of us who like getting drunk around solstice time give a fuck about Jeebus.

Kris Kringle (12:04), for reals? Because Christmas happens to not be the ONLY holiday celebrated within a month of these parties. Surely you've heard of Chanukkah, but I'm guessing you've never heard of New Years Eve. Yes, NYE tends to also be considered a "holiday." Now, I don't give a shit if my firm calls the party a Christmas Party because "Channukah Parties" are lame (I can say that, I'm Jewish), but I don't think it's ridiculous to call it a "Holiday Party"...especially in New York City.

11:45 is correct. The staff at Willkie talk about the upcoming Holiday party for at least a week beforehand and leave to get their hair done, make-up, etc... the afternoon of. There is always an after party at a bar nearby (and the space is usually reserved in advance) where the staff comes to drink with the attorneys some more.

I don't even believe in Jeebus.

HELP ME JEEBUS!

Gotta love Homer.

Merry Christmas b-tches!

I'm rich, biach!

Agreed with 12:23. An evening with his wife is a much better time than a stuffy holiday party.

12:04 - I agree. It should be a Christmas party because the US is a Christian nation.

12:12 - I can say this because I am Jewish. And you should read up on the history of Chanukah celebrations. Not until the 20th Century (when the commercial aspects of Christmas were on full display in the surrounding culture) was Chanukah more than a minor blip on the Jewish calendar. But you have a Chag Kosher v'Sameach tonight. And if you don't know what that is then you have nothing to complain about with regard to Christmas parties.

Even my medium-sized firm here in L.A. rented out a swanky Santa Monica club for the night and is having a raffle with plasma tvs, ipods, and all expense paid vacations being given away. Plus I get off work around 5:30 every day. Suck it biglaw.

I think L2L should be on the list, possibly #1. S/He is probably studying for finals right now.

Lighten up 12:23 or get off ATL...
I disagree with 12:27, if 12:23's wife is anything like him, then I don't think an evening with her would be better than a stuffy holiday party!

and full open bar of course. It's time to get freakaay!

12:06 -

Baker & McKenzie.

My second-tier west coast firm is throwing a fancy expensive party to which staff *and* guests/sig others are invited. Of course, our bonus structure sucks ass, and I'd rather have a decent bonus than a party where I have to hang around with the partners who don't want to pay me what I'm worth (market value, not objective value, lest anyone feel tempted to make some assholish remark about lawyers making too much money).

12:32: Any list of ATL characters where Al Gore is listed anywhere but last is not a good list of ATL characters.

I'm quite "light", but I just find this talk a little banal (look it up). I guess I shouldn't be suprised though. This is what the Internet is for.

Back to work........

12:26 - The correct quote is "Save me, Jeebus!".

If you're going to cop out and quote the Simpsons, at least get it right.

D&L's is at DelFrisco's and they've reserved the whole two-story restaurant for the occasion. But no spouses/sig others allowed...and staff are welcome.

It is fairly amazing that Lat could write an entire article on law firm "holiday" parties without referencing the War on Christmas or, for that matter, without typing the word Christmas. Yet another painful reminder that, while some Christians are still fighting elsewhere in American society, the realm of top NYC law firms is one where we have clearly lost the battle.

Or have we? It would be interesting to know if any top law firm, in NYC or another big city, haven't yet adopted the War on Christmas bandwagon (be it by hosting a Christmas party, displaying a nativity scene with the firm's Christmas tree, playing traditional Christmas songs in the cafeteria, etc). I somehow doubt it.

My firm is so bad that the administration crosses out the word Christmas from any mass email where they would be expected to include that word, which sometimes gives awkward results.

Anyone find it strange that a lot of these holiday parties forbid spouses from attending? What exactly is the party celebrating? Your devotion to the firm over family? Or maybe it's just because the firms are too poor to permit spouses to come.

Lat:

We need a poll on the ranking of ATL recurring characters.

Stat.

How can Hof1L possibly be in the top 3?

Does Skadden or S&C allow people to bring spouses/guests to their holiday party?

You Christians are a touchy bunch. Christmas is more of a secular holiday today than a religious one, but nobody bemoans that. You just whine about the logical and superficial next step - removing 'Christ' from the holiday. It's a slow process, but this phase should not be seen as offensive to anyone.

Back when I was at a firm...the Christmas party often accidentally fell on the evening of the day they "cut up the partners' pie" (aka - decided the final partner compensation and bonuses for the year) and so there was always at least one or two disgruntled partners (you could tell by the tequila shots) that you could get drunk and get information out of about what the rest of them said and did....

1:38: The fact that Christmas is increasingly secular is exactly what we are complaining about. The problem is not just with replacing Christmas with "Holiday", but also taking out nativity scenes with Christmas trees, changing the lyrics of Christmas songs like Silent Night for an atheist version (Cold in the Night), etc.

I don't have a problem with the fact that Christmas involves gift-giving, so long as this comes in addition to, not as a replacement of, Christmas' religious elements.

Oh, Walter Sobchek, I wish this were Shabbos so you couldn't be on the computer acting condescending towards your fellow tribesmen. I went to Orthodox Yeshiva, so yes, ani mevina chag sameach, todah, hamor. The fact is that although Chanukkah wasn't a commercialized holiday until the 20th century (funny thing is, neither was Christmas really), but it has been a celebrated holiday for hundreds and hundreds of years. There are specific prayers to be read ("Y'kum Porcan", etc.) on Chanukkah and it's one of only two holidays (the other is Purim) that will continue to be celebrated after the coming of the Mossiach. You just got schooled.

What I'm most confused about is how this has anything to do with my comment that end of the year parties that happen around multiple holidays should just be called a "Holiday Party."

11:31/12:53,

Is this for the NY or London office (or both)?

"another painful reminder that, while some Christians are still fighting elsewhere in American society, the realm of top NYC law firms is one where we have clearly lost the battle."

Give me a break. Where exactly are other Christians "fighting" and what are they fighting about -- and how does their fighting line up with any actual mandate from scripture or tradition?

And what "battle" has been "lost" at NY firms? Last I checked religious discrimination is still illegal, so if there are any NY firms that are actively excluding Christians from their practice, I encourage the wronged would-be associates to file a class action and would wholeheartedly support them in doing so (as I would support Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, etc. for the same reason, if appropriate).

I buy and decorate a Christmas tree every year. I throw a Christmas party every year, to which I invite friends of any and all faiths. I attend church religiously (no pun intended) and listen to traditional Christmas carols and light advent wreaths. I volunteer during the holidays and buy gifts for needy families. I go to midnight mass on Christmas Eve. I tithe ten percent every paycheck. And guess what? Since this is a free and pluralistic society, I have the right to do all of these things. Everyone else has the right to celebrate the holiday however they choose. My Christianity is not threatened by the fact that my firm sends out generic "holiday" cards instead of "Christmas" cards -- I mean, if it were, what kind of faith would I have? If you want to celebrate Christmas, celebrate it! Do it with gusto, like I do! But don't expect everyone else in the world to treat the holiday the same way you do. That's presumptuous and arrogant -- and you may recall that pride is one of the seven deadly sins.

Hey westcoast jerks, whats the deal with the parties out there. I for one don't actually give a damn what is going on out east but would like to hear whether the handful of decent firms out west (or the decent firms with offices on the coast) have lame parties a la S&C or are a bit more fun.

From: David Boies
To: BSF_All_Attorneys
Sent: Thu Nov 29 17:46:09 2007
Subject: Formula Compensation Proposal

At the Firm meeting the morning of December 9 in Jamaica we will
discuss a proposal to eliminate the formula compensation bonus calculation
for associates and replace it with more conventional bonuses.

From the beginning of the Firm more than 10 years ago, the formula
compensation system for associates has been an integral part of the Firm’s
culture. The system was originally intended to serve two basic purposes --
first, to permit associates to share in the Firm’s revenues which they helped
generate, and second, to provide a flexible compensation system that
accommodated both associates who worked long hours and those who made life
style choices to trade-off more work (and more money) for the opportunity to
spend time on other opportunities and passions.

To a large extent, the system has been successful in achieving its
original purposes. However, both the Firm and the legal market have changed
considerably over the last 10 years. Although many associates still earn
bonuses significantly larger than even this year’s enhanced bonuses at the
Firm’s competitors, the increase in associate salaries and bonuses at other
firms over the last 10 years have eroded the differential -- and resulted in
a significant number of associates earning less at this Firm than they would
have earned at alternative firms. In addition, the expectations, goals, and
efforts of the Firm’s associates are more uniform today than when the Firm
started. Finally, the Firm’s growth has greatly reduced both an associate’s
control over what matters to which he or she devotes time and the
relationship between an individual associate’s work and a matter’s outcome.
Earlier this year, the latter point prompted the Firm to pay formula
compensation bonuses on the average return for an associates time, weighted
only by the associate’s standard billing rate and not by the actual premium
earned, or discount given, on the matter to which the associate was assigned.
This change, which was favorably received by almost all associates who
commented, prompted a number of associates to raise the question of whether
the entire formula compensation system should be replaced by a system of
generally uniform bonuses for associates that were performing satisfactorily.

Although the Firm’s partners have not formally considered a proposal
to replace the existing formula compensation system for associates, I believe
it is likely that the Firm would do so if (but only if) such a change were
supported by a consensus of the Firm’s associates. Accordingly, we would
appreciate it if in advance of the December meeting each of you could
consider this important issue and come to the December 9 meeting prepared to
discuss what we should do.

David Boies, Esq.
Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP
333 Main Street
Armonk, NY 10504
Tel: 914.749.8200
Fax: 914.749.8300

Dear Oda Mae:

Mossiach already came. Good luck!

A Christian (aka 2:04), Exactly!!!! I could kiss you, but that would be impossible and even if it weren't, it would be awkward and uncomfortable.

True Christians who are celebrating Christmas because of its significance to Jesus and Christianity do not care if the entire WalMart is covered in tinsel and whther they are greeted with "Merry Christmas" as opposed to "Happy Holidays" from the elderly retarded man at the door.

And for the record, this Jew responds in kind to "Merry Christmas." It's a greeting for Christ's sake (j/k).

I hate to rain on the Christmas parade as I generally dislike the over political correction that takes place and actually like the idea of keeping it a "Christmas Party" as opposed to "Holiday Party", but I'm not sure if Christians can really bitch about it. If they know their own history, they'd know that Christmas has nothing to do with Christ. Jesus is believed to be historically born in August. It's celebrated in December because the early Christians in an attempt to convert mass European pagans (Celts being one of the biggest groups), usurped the pagan winter solstice holiday. That's where the Christmas tree comes from----it's a pagan symbol, not a Christian symbol until the early Catholic Church declared it so. Same goes for All Hallows Eve/All Souls Day---otherwise known as Halloween--originally was Samhain in the British Isles. This was a typical tactic by those trying to assimilate others into their religion. If they took away all the former pagan rituals, it would be much harder to force feed the new Christianity. But let them keep the traditions, just give them a new purpose/meaning and after a few generations, Christianity became the mainstream religion instead of the main pagan tribal customs (and slaughtering those that resisted helped with the transition too).

We cant bring guests to our holiday party -- what BS

Fed Soc, whereas before I thought you were just daft, your enlistment into the O'Reilly Regiment in the War on Christmas has me leaning toward thinking you're actually a troll after all. Still, the whole "War on Christmas" thing is annoying enough to me that I want to spell out why.

You say it's the secularization of Christmas that you bemoan, but what does that have to do with allegedly PC substitutions of "happy holidays" or the disappearance of images of fir trees? If secularization is really your concern, shouldn't you be fighting tooth and nail to rid the world of Santa (whose name, as my soft-in-the-head 7th-grade Sunday School teacher helpfully pointed out, is an anagram of "Satan")? More than anyone else, he's the "real enemy" if secularization is your concern. When kids think of Christmas, they think of Santa. The goodness of Christmas--the presents you have no problem with--comes from Santa. The anticipation of Christmas is the excitement of awaiting Santa's arrival. Most kids--even those brought up in church--could give two craps about Jesus on Dec 24. They want their Wii.

Do you honestly think that if you took the commerce out of Christmas that it would remain the big deal it is now? No more presents, no more Santa--ooh, my kids can't wait 'til December 25th, when we get to go to church on a weekday and hold candles. They've been chattering about it for months. Face it, you lost that battle a long time ago.

Whining about the War on Christmas is just proxy desperation about the slippage in white Christian dominance in US culture. You'll lose that battle too, if you haven't already. The thing is, no one's going to make you give up your beliefs. And if those beliefs are dying out in the public at large, then they just don't have the hold on people you wish they would. If that's the case, then trying to fight a lost-cause "war" about what words and symbols people use is every bit as infected with the flaws of magical thinking as political correctness is in its attempt to change cultural relations through terminology. You can't change what people think by policing what they say. And when you frame it as righteous fighting to save Christmas, which is obviously in no real trouble, at least in its secular form, you just look silly.

2:20, great points. I have nothing to add but my agreement. My parish, at least, has an honest sense of its own history and doesn't shy away from it -- the truth shall set you free.

"Do you honestly think that if you took the commerce out of Christmas that it would remain the big deal it is now? No more presents, no more Santa--ooh, my kids can't wait 'til December 25th, when we get to go to church on a weekday and hold candles. They've been chattering about it for months."

Hehehe. Very true. I personally like the gift-giving aspect of it, but that's just because I think it's fun, not because I'm under the illusion that it has much to do with Christian roots (though it has worked its way into Christian tradition). The wise men giving gifts to Jesus was not a gift exchange -- it was an offering of worship to God. Like you note, 2:25, there's only a handful of kids who get excited about that.

"Whining about the War on Christmas is just proxy desperation about the slippage in white Christian dominance in US culture. You'll lose that battle too, if you haven't already."

I think this is the key point, and why I can't stand the people who insist that Christianity has to basically run the country, or something. As a Christian, if that happens, hey, what do I care, it's my religion, no worries. But if one religion can control how everyone is "supposed" to do everything, how can I actually believe that my religion will always be in charge? And if Christians are big enough assholes, it's likely the retribution will only be that much harsher(wrongly, but that's life). I sure as fuck don't want to have my religious freedom (meaning, my freedom to actually, you know, WORSHIP GOD) threatened in 30 years all because a bunch of rich white people decided to be whiny assholes about something that DOESN'T REALLY MATTER.

Christianity is a bunch of medieval superstition and the soooner you supposedly educated professionals get over it, the better.

2:38. Right. Unlike those other rational, scientifically-supported religions like....

What exactly is the significance of the poster rankings? Does the top spot reflect the most common poster? Most reviled? Most loved? Most likely to be a 1L at a TTT pretending to be a 4th year associate at BigLaw in NYC? The bitch on the list wants to know...

Very helpful, 2:38. Thanks for adding to the discussion.

Egg nog for everyone!!!

A Christian - I thought this discussion was going to be about awesome parties and the wonderful people who get drunk at them...

(not whether it's a big deal - and, i agree, it's not - that companies and firms dealing with a diverse population choose to use a secular term when describing their winter party, despite traditionally calling it a "Christmas" party... seriously, does anyone have *less* fun because of it!?)

Fine by me, 3:37. FedSoc is the one who derailed, I was just pointing out why s/he was wrong.

On with the boozing!

Who cares about how repeat characters are ranked on ATL when manbearpig is still out there? We have to stop him! I am totally serial.

"(beep) Mr. Lebowski, this is Bill Selliger of the Southern Cal bowling league. I just got a report that a member of your team Walter Sobchek drew a firearm during league play. If this is true, it controveens a number of leagues bylaws and also article 27 of the..."

A Christian,

You know, I used to fear all Christians, but now I don't. Thank you.

Cravath--used to rent out the Rainbow Room every year. No significant others. Yes dancing partners and paralegals and hookups and clubbin afterward (yes, Cravath attorneys are, for the most part, terrible dancers). Cravath London used to be at Claridges in London in a private room. It was quite excellent and there was so much alcohol that we quite literally could not drink it all, but the bartenders were at the ready. It was tasteful, except for the sticky toffee pudding, which is more of a pub dessert.

Aight, I'll make this a clusterfuck.

100th!

Boies Schiller has its holiday party at the italian club in the west village - they have a shooting range and apparently people just get drunk and shoot guns - seems like a pretty good idea.

also, they take everyone and their significant others/families to the Ritz Carlton in MontegoBay, jamaica this weekend.

on an unrelated note - i heard that 50% of people hear made well above market bonuses this year. i personally made 220% of market.