Nationwide Pay Raise Watch: Paul Hastings to $160K in Atlanta
The powers that be in the Atlanta office of Paul Hastings just announced associate pay raises for fiscal year 2008, which will take effect on February 1. Apparently ATL -- the website, not the city -- got a shout-out at the meeting, when the announcing partner asked, "Who is going to be the first one to email Above the Law?"
Here's the memo and salary table:
We are pleased to announce the Firm will be increasing base-level salaries for U.S. associates in the Atlanta office effective as of the new fiscal year which commences February 1, 2008.
FY 2009 Compensation by Class Year is as follows:
These increases reflect the Firm's commitment to paying at the top tier of the market in Atlanta.
We thank you for and commend your performance, commitment and hard work throughout the year and your contributions to our success.
(264) Comments
Compress much?
fizzurp!
NYC to 190 (Atlanta pushed it up!)_
Wow. This is huge news for Atlanta. Makes K&S and A&B look cheap. Which they are of course. Oh, and first.
In Atlanta? That's depressing.
first and breaking the story!!!
NYC to 190 (Atlanta pushed it up!)_
Crazy amount of money for ATL. According to the salary calculator on the NYT, 160k in the A is equivalent to 331k in NYC. Time for a NY bump!
160 in crap-lanta?? ridiculous.
That is just f'ing ridiculous. I'm packing up and moving.
Atlanta killed me...that and the belt around my neck!
NYC to 175?
NYC to 331!
Atlanta killed me...that and the belt around my neck!
NYC to 331!
Atlanta killed me...that and the belt around my neck!
CRAP-LANTA!!!
Why am I in NYC again?
CRAP-LANTA!!!
Lat to NEW SERVERS!!!
Atlanta killed me...that and the belt around my neck!
live in the boondocks much?
heath.. just hit post ONCE... you sick freak
I spend a 5th year's salary on one month's recording time.
I think it is interesting that the comments don't work for the featured lawyer of the year. Could it be that Lat, Hillary supporter extraordinaire, does not want the Barack Obama supporters to use that area to campaign?
BARACK THE VOTE!
Wow that is huge...what are bonuses usually like there?
although everyone knows that some firms in markets like Charlotte and Texas have been at the NYC scale for a while.
Gary, Indiana to 190!
Oh, come on!
In everyones honest opinion, what is the likelihood that NYC raises starting salaries to top Atlanta?
In everyones honest opinion, what is the likelihood that NYC raises starting salaries to top Atlanta?
This is getting friggin' ridiculous already. How can self respecting V10 NYC firms allow this to go on? Show me the money.
Lat,
There's so much trash put in here about associate compensation and why it is what it is and people complaining about the complainers, etc, etc, etc. It's all bullshit.
Do a post re: associate compensation doing a summary of this (and of course, appropriately linking to it):
http://www.bmacewen.com/cgi-bin/mt-tb.cgi/797
WHAT ABOUT POWELL GOLDSTEIN?
Lat to naked posts...
who cares about po go..there a nobody
who cares about po go..there a nobody
Lat,
Do a story about the percentage of associate salary that goes to recreational drug use and prostitutes!!
Great to 1st years, but what an insult to mid-levels. For 4th and 5th years, accumulated experience worth only 15k and 25k more, respectively??? Do Atlanta associates have lower learning curve than their counterparts in NYC? Or do their workload decrease somewhat as they move up in class?
The fact that I earn the same $ as an attorney in Atlanta but pay Manhattan rent is depressing.
Lat,
Sorry, try this link:
http://www.bmacewen.com/blog/archives/2007/12/a_compensation_meditation.html
OK dechert better move to 160 in philly
Great for the 1st years, but what an insult to mid-levels. For 4th and 5th years, accumulated experience worth only 15k and 25k more, respectively??? Do Atlanta associates have lower learning curve than their counterparts in NYC? Interesting mixed message from the firm...
White Girls With Asian Guys
6:44 - What the ....??? Setting aside issue of relevance, what about White Guys With Asian Girls?
S&C is going to $175 retro to 1/1.
"who cares about po go..there a nobody
Posted by: Anonymous | January 23, 2008 06:35 PM"
-----------------------------------------------
This sentence is the perfect example of why grammar is important. I had to read it three times to understand what it is trying to convey. I do, however, agree that po go is a nobody.
So PH raised in Atl, but what about bonuses, i.e. will they match in NY?
6:50--
White Girls With Asian Guys is azn penis in lovely white women.
CAN YOU DIG IT?!?!?!
YEAH!!!
so... who will match? K&S? A&B? all of the firms that matched the 145K (I think there around 10 of them)?
great, now my amlaw 100 firm is 30k behind market. gotta love how much cash those greedy ba$tard$ are shoving in their pockets.
Paul Hastings bonus for 1st year associates starts at 30K and like 94% of 1st year associates got it last year. You can't get more than that until your 3rd year, at which point you can get multiples of that number. For example, I know a few 3rd and 4th year associates that got 60k and 90k bonuses.
They have easily the best bonus structure in Atlanta. All making me more pissed off that I didn't get a job there.
charlotte will raise, if they already haven't
Fish has been on a higher scale in Atlanta since the first round of raises in 2007.
Paul Hastings bonus for 1st year associates starts at 30K and like 94% of 1st year associates got it last year. You can't get more than that until your 3rd year, at which point you can get multiples of that number. For example, I know a few 3rd and 4th year associates that got 60k and 90k bonuses.
They have easily the best bonus structure in Atlanta. All making me more pissed off that I didn't get a job there.
Paul Hastings bonus for 1st year associates starts at 30K and like 94% of 1st year associates got it last year. You can't get more than that until your 3rd year, at which point you can get multiples of that number. For example, I know a few 3rd and 4th year associates that got 60k and 90k bonuses.
They have easily the best bonus structure in Atlanta. All making me more pissed off that I didn't get a job there.
Damn, why struggle so hard and have zero quality of life (no car, no space, harsh weather, rude people, high rent) in NYC!!?? Hotlanta, here I come!
How's Atlanta diversity?
6:50(2): News to us. Someone must have forgotten to tell Rodge, Vince, and Co.
Damn, why struggle so hard and have zero quality of life (no car, no space, harsh weather, rude people, high rent) in NYC!!?? Hotlanta, here I come!
How's Atlanta diversity?
Can someone please tell me whether Paul Hastings has the best bonus structure in Atlanta? Anyone pissed off that they didn't get jobs there?
I think that Sullivan and Cromwell will raise in NYC.
Check this out!!!
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I heard that S&C was going to 331, to match PH in Atlanta.
WAKA WAKA!!!
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Hi. Someone asked about Atlanta Diversity. That's me, though most simply call me lip service. There is diversity at K&S, A&B, Kilpatrick, & Podon'tGo. Many other firms prefer "token" diversity (see the NALP forms).
I ate dinner with a partner here at a T10 atlanta firm who enjoyed using the n-word and the gay f-word with aplomb.
I think midlevels do pretty damn good under this scale.... While there is some compression during years 1-4, after year 5, you get "real" raises in base (for the Atlanta market).
I work at PH in Atlanta and I honestly believe that firm management listened to the associates in contemplating this scale.
I agree, 7:47. I'm a midlevel at a firm in Atlanta that allegedly pays top of the market and I'm not making anywhere near that. Maybe I should talk to PH....
Do you all think DLA Piper will try to keep above the Atlanta market or just match? Hadn't they been above the Atlanta market since coming to Atlanta?
PH is clearly the Atlanta market leader. They lead in compensation and have a great national bonus structure.
where are these sullivan rumors coming from?
According to AlreadyBored.com, which tracks law firm comp. in different cities in searchable format, K&S's total comp. is actually pretty strong. Not PH strong, but much better than A&B and some of the other regional firms in Atlanta:
Salary Details
Year Base Median Bonus Comments
Summer $2,788/wk n/a $10K acceptance bonus
Year 1 $145 $8
Year 2 $150 $10
Year 3 $155 $15
Year 4 $162 $25 22.5 - 35 bonus range
Year 5 $172 $30 22.5 - 40 bonus range
Year 6 $185 $35 27.5 - 47.5 bonus range
Year 7 $195 $40 30 - 55 bonus range
Here, by comparison, is A&B's crappy scale from AlreadyBored.com:
Salary Details
Year Base Median Bonus Comments
Summer $2,788/wk n/a
Year 1 $145 $5
Year 2 $150 $5
Year 3 $155 $7
Year 4 $162 $7
Year 5 $172 $10
Year 6 $185 $10
Year 7 $195 $12
Interesting move in light of recent economic excitement. Must be doing well.
So a 6th year at PH makes $200K, plus a big bonus;
a 6th year at K&S with bonus makes around $220 (with possible upside to about $232.5);
and a 6th year at A&B makes $195 with bonus. I hope those A&B'ers think the $25K+ gap is worth the "best places to work" listing.
8:21 -- It's not worth it. I'm told the equity partners really pushed hard this year to crack the $1MM PPP barrier because they have been killed by K&S in this town. To get there, they sh*t-canned some EPs (meaning, they became income partners) and cranked up the hours. Life as a staffer here is great; life as a lawyer, not so different than anywhere else, except we get paid less.
What about Powell Goldstein? Really? Have you seen their PPP? They are at or below many of the mid-size shops in Atlanta. That place is a dump waiting to get gobbled up.
Paul Hastings to V10!
To the person that asked about Pogo- yeah right. The couldn't even make the move to 145 without laying off a bunch of attorneys. While Pogo used to hang with the "big boys", they been going down hill fast in the past few years.
Atlanta blows. There's a reason the cost of living is so cheap. I'd rather make the same salary and pay ridiculous rent in NY or SF than live in some depressing McMansion-style Post Apartment and sit in traffic for 2 hours a day. Plus, Atlanta associates have to deal with the good ole boy mentality that is the norm down there. Unless you are a southern-style frat boy, you won't fit in.
A&B is second rate on its best days. It talks a good game, but relies far to heavily on gimmicks like their 100 Best ranking to compensate for lack of substance and depth.
Alreadybored.com is reporting that Charlotte CWT, Dewey and MB matched. Can anyone confirm?
Womble got a look at Pogo's financials and ran. Now the merger that Pogo thought would save them is oh-vah before it even got started. Pogo will = Brobeck in 9 months.
YEE-HAW! Where can I get me one o' them thar pardnershit tracks?
Guys at my high school used to make partner in Atlanta law firms. It was no big deal.
What the sh*t is this about S&C raising?!?
SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NY needs to go up to 190!
come on NY firms - this is getting ridiculous now.
NY needs to go up to 190!
So if PH is such a leader, why haven't they matched the special bonus in NY?
Why live in NYC making 160 and living in a small apartment when you can live like a King in Atlanta making the same 160!
NY must raise the salary!!!!!!!!!!!
8:39....CWT confirmed with NY bonus
K&S will not match this, and A&B sure as hell won't.
I heard Paul Hastings is about to annouce a special bonus match in New York and possibly an over-$160 announcement tomorrow as well.
You know what's sickening about this? PH Atlanta is a glorified labor and employment shop. It is not nearly as profitable as other PH offices. And they still kick the crap out of K&S when it comes to comp.
Prediction - exactly 0 NYC lawyers will move to Atlanta as a result of this.
And they PH Atlanta office kicks the crap out of K&S in PPP too. Don't kid yourself 9:25.
9:47 -- you are clueless. 9:25 is right -- the only first class thing about PH in Atlanta is the employment work, and that is hardly high profit work. The PH Atlanta shop does far worse than the average PH office in PPP. It is a drag on the firm's overall profitability. But, to its credit, PH treats Atlanta like the other offices re: comp. If PH shut down its Atlanta office tomorrow, PH's overall PPP would go up.
Milwaukee to $190!
Why would this make K&S or other large Atlanta firms move? I mean, how many lawyers does PH hire in Atlanta each year -- 5?
9:41: Think again. And even if they don't (which they will, Atlanta, sorry to tell my fellow New Yorkers, is NOT a horrid place), they will most definitely think twice before coming to NYC in the first place.
10:22 = K&S partner worried about his $1.3 million PPP -- it may dip to $1.295 million
Atlanta Diversity? (7:45)
Aren't you being a bit intolerant there? Shouldn't true diversity be inclusive of racists and gay bashers?
Perhaps your elitist, limousine liberal, northeastern law firms should start having real diversity--and put their money where their mouth is.
10:34 -- 10:22 here. I wish I had that change. I'm just being realistic here. We've all read about clients hating the increases. Given that atmosphere, if there is no real threat in the main stream of recruting, why would K&S or other big firms in Atlanta give a crap about PH's salary? Sure, those firms might lose a couple of top recruits, and maybe even a lateral or two. But the truth is that PH Atlanta simply does not have enough work to hire us all. Unless and until one of the big firms in the city moves again, the bulk of salaries will stay put. And I don't think there will be a rush to start another wave of salary increases.
Of course, if my theory is correct, you would expect A&B and other local firms to lose out over the next year to K&S in recruiting given the wide gap between K&S and the rest of the Atlanta-based firms. We'll see.
You are stupid if you think NYC firms are going to raise, ESPECIALLY IN THIS ECONOMY!
Fish & Richardson to Paul Hastings: "Been there done that, but without the compression."
10:39
Diversity means hiring a work force of a certain caliber with varied backgrounds. This allows bright, well-adjusted people to play to each others strengths. It does not mean hiring individuals with character flaws because they "think differently". Thieves clearly have different ideas about how things work and what they are entitled to than I do- that doesn't make their way of thinking "diverse" , so much as perverse (and criminal). Diversity does not need to include racists and gay bashers or, indeed, firms will be putting their money where the racists and gay bashers mouthes are when they are sued.
Hahahahaha. Move from NYC to Atlanta? Hahahahahahahaha. That's like moving from Tokyo to ... um ... Atlanta! What a sweet move up that would be. NOT.
Moving from Manhattan to Atlanta requires very little adjustment. Let me explain:
So what that within 1 block of my Manhattan apartment there are around 100 restaurants serving every cuisine on the planet (and they're open until 3am). And so what that there are 100 Broadway shows for me to choose from every week. And so what that there are constantly dozens of new restaurants and bars of every variety opening up within a 5 minute walk. And so what that I can go see the most interesting art at the Met or MoMA or the Guggenheim any weekend. And so what that I can take a 15 minutes subway ride to Central Park. And so what that every top retail clothing store has a shop within walking distance. And so what that there is a farmer's market every day of the week just blocks away from me at Union Square. And so what bars are open until 4am. And so what that the City is constantly alive with energy and movement and hustle and diversity 24 hours a day.
In Atlanta, you can get a bigger apartment, and that is what really matters! :)
And so what that I have no car. And so what that I have no space. And so what that Atlanta has trees and beautiful foliage everywhere. And so what that I have to deal with crappy weather. And so what that the people hear are rude. And so what that I live in a box of an apartment. And so what if I work 400 more hours a year than an associate in Atlanta.
At least in Atlanta you have great weather, some of the finest blonde hunnies you've ever seen, nice people, and your money goes twice as far.
. . . people *here* are rude.
(maybe I should actually read what I type before posting!)
HOT-LANTA TO 160??!! This has to be a f-ing joke. 160 in NYC is retarded. As a midlevel here, I still cant afford to buy a decent co-op (100 down?) or condo (700 asking). And if I do, it will be combination Closet/Bathroom. New York City sucks. $1000/sf my ass.
If Atlanta Pays 160, New York should reasonably start at 180.
Legitimate Philly firms have no excuse now, Philadelphia needs to make the 160 jump. (New York's looking more stupid by the minute).
Diversity means hiring more black people.
As someone who went to Emory and is now in biglaw NY I have to say I miss Atlanta a lot. I see a lot of haters here but I doubt they have any real experience with Atlanta. Fun town, hot girls (Anybody who ever stepped foot on UGA's campus knows what I am talking about) and great weather.
A buck sixty in Atlanta will let you live like a king.
I for one would be quite happy to go back.
9:25 - really? I've heard from insiders that PH ATL's labor & employment dept. has been tanking for a long time (+ lit for that matter) and that corporate brings in the $.
NYC has all the great things that 11:49 describes, but 11:49 obviously doesn't have kids (at least, not more than one). As a practical matter, all of those wonderful things that 11:49 describes largely fall by the wayside. NYC is a wonderful place to live when you are young, but it becomes really hard when you are trying to raise a family. Then, you have to move outside the city (NJ anyone), and at that point, you might as well be someplace warm where you work less.
Paul Hastings and Jones Day bill out their 1st years at over $300/hr. (and maybe over $400 for national clients). That's why these firms and perhaps DLA and K&S can raise in the ATL market but not regional shops like A&B and Sutherland. Still a huge gap b/w ATL and NY though. I don't get why NY hasn't raised yet.
Oops... I really FUCKED UP!
two girls one cup killed me!
5:27 - The rumors you've heard about PH are not true. The lit dept. is doing great (as that is my dept.). I can't speak as much to employment, but everything I see in the firmwide emails indicates that employment is doing just fine too.
9:41: you're wrong.
Atlanta has great weather (except for that whole drought thing). But at least there's a bright side to that, since the entire sewer system only backs up into the storm drains when it rains a quarter inch or more, so there's less of that happening.
As someone who has lived in both places, if you're in NYC and are addicted to everything listed in the 11:49 post (except the Union Square Greenmarket is only four days a week), Atlanta is not going to be a fun place to live. There's something about walking/training/cabbing it places that makes living in NYC different than anywhere else. Its called infrastructure and connectedness with your fellow man. And NYers aren't as rude as people think. Generally when I experience rudeness here, it stems from some tourist thinking that's how they're supposed to act. A NYer may walk right past you without saying hello, but that's not rude, people just have things to do. And Southern hospitality isn't always genuine.
Atlanta has generally nice weather and cheap housing. But really, how much housing do you need if you don't have kids? And if you do have kids, that was your call. In either city, they're going to private school.
If you have kids in Atlanta they are likely in-bred.
I don't think 11:49 has kids. The things you are talking about that are great about NYC (and they are great) are things that fall largely by the wayside with kids (especially if you have more than one). NYC is great when you're young, but if/when you want a family, living in the city takes quite a bit of sacrifice. My take is that you are likely to move out of the city (Jersey anyone?), and at that point you might as well (a) live somewhere warm (b) live where you can have a good living space that has a reasonable amount of cultural stuff to do nearby, and (c) live where you don't have to put in as many hours.
Not that I've given this any thought or anything.
Paul Hastings has always paid above market in Atlanta, both in salary and boni. That it is again above market will not put pressure on the other ATL law firms. Nor will it pressure NYC or other cities to increase their comp to "keep up with Atlanta."
To the haters: In-town living in Atlanta is awesome. Totally different from NYC, of course, but no city in the US is fairly compared to NYC for those who want what NYC offers and can tolerate NYC's many flaws. Apples to oranges. ATL burbs are horrendous, true, but only in the same way that any other suburb is miserable (traffic, cheap McMansions and chain restaurants), and of course, suburban living too is a personal choice.
To the person claiming that an ATL partner used the "n" word and the "f" word in a recruiting dinner, I call bullsh*t.
8:53 - WTF? Ass...
I hate Philly. How can it let Atlanta show it up??? :-(
Since 11:49 probably goes to the Met once every two years, his case for NYC pretty much amounts to "we have lots of restaurants and bars and they stay open late." Well, congratulations -- one really soaks up a city's cultural offerings when getting plastered at 4 am.
Of course, it's not like there are any art museums, bars, restaraunts, farmers markets, etc, in Atlanta. Nope, we all sit home and watch TV while eating frozen dinners.
Let's not forget the higher crime rate in Atlanta and a lack of a winning professional sports team.
I concede the Braves, but does anyone ever go watch them?
Delaware Chancery to 160!
The only thing that will force a move by K&S is another bad recruiting year. The firm got absolutely hammered in OCI this fall, and the morale problems caused by not raising in 07 were a big reason for it, not to mention the fact that rational students were not going to come to Atlanta for way less money.
The PH move, and K&S' silence, may further confirm to law students that K&S is just not serious about paying a true market salary. Atlanta is already being substantially outpaid by Charlotte and Texas, and now it's pretty clear that K&S is perfectly willing to be outpaid even in Atlanta.
The firm's position will be that it's already gone above and beyond by topping A&B's raise. Well, they did top it, but A&B's raise was an insult to its associates -- a desperate ploy to increase PPP at the expense of paying competitive salaries. What PH did was -- with the exception of the ridiculous starting salary of 160k -- implement the pay scale we should have had from the beginning.
The traffic in Atlanta is absolutely horrendous and they have no water. You have to avoid watering your lawns on certain days of the week because the water supply (a nearby lake) is drying up. Huge problems. Unless you live downtown (where there's no grocery stores), you're screwed.
I work in Philadelphia! I suck!! I make less than associates in Atlanta!!!
Chances of any NYC biglaw raising today are . . .?
HOLY COMPRESSION BATMAN!
NYC has to move. The special bonuses were a stall tactic, but these moves in ATL will push them to do something more permanent. I am not sure we will see $190k, but $175k is almost a certainty at this point. The bigger question is, how will a raise affect other markets. If NY goes to $175k, will DC, LA and Chicago follow? If NY goes to $190k, will those markets and other smaller markets, namely TX, split the difference and move to $170-175k? Rest assured, however, a move in NY is inevitable.
Safe to say I will be leaving NYC if they don't raise salaries by April. It's just economically inefficient to live/work here, while you can get a better value for your dollar, have a car, house, etc. in cities like Atlanta. I've been to Atlanta, and it's actually a great place. Those who will respond with someone like, "Yeah, but it's Atlanta" clearly haven't left NYC their entire lives, except to go to Europe or maybe LA.
NYC isn't the only great city in the US, people.
KS might raise, they have the PPP and economice to do so. A&B associates, stop holding your breath, this place is a TTT that will sooner rather than later assume it's proper place as a toddler trying to play in the big boy sand box. A&B's Charlotte office already makes more than Atlanta, and that office is dead right now. Unlike KS, FR and PH, A&B does not have the right combo of PPP and business to make the jump to $160.
KS might raise, they have the PPP and economice to do so. A&B associates, stop holding your breath, this place is a TTT that will sooner rather than later assume it's proper place as a toddler trying to play in the big boy sand box. A&B's Charlotte office already makes more than Atlanta, and that office is dead right now. Unlike KS, FR and PH, A&B does not have the right combo of PPP and business to make the jump to $160.
Atlanta sucks... There's traffic, annoying southern frat boys who wear pink pants, white polos and loafers with no socks, you can't buy booze on Sundays and every street has the word "Peach" in it. I really doubt NYers are moving to Atlanta in droves so save $$$ in rent.
This is a GIMMICK - the compression is insane.
Basically, the way to game this system is to work in Atlanta for 2 years (and save up to $2000 a month on housing compared to NYC) and then transfer to another office when the compression really kicks in around yr 3.
Speaking of Pogo, I heard there is a going out of business sale at One Atlantic Center today. Lots of cheap office furniture for sale, and 75% off hourly rates of all attorneys who have not left for other