first.

I know from personal experience that if you do well at a non-top tier law school, you can get into a top tier llm program. from there, you can get into big law. no problem.

Let me be the FIRST to ask-- in terms of later stages in one's career (i.e. moving from biglaw to AUSA, or from AUSA to professorship), how much does educational background/school "prestige" matter? If it does, would an LLM from a more prestigious school help offset having a T2 JD?

As a T2 graduate (summa), I was always somewhat curious whether getting an LLM from a T14 would help open more "prestigious" doors -- clerkships, maybe, or AUSA paths, and so on.

haha suck it firsters

Ha - 11:08(2), you asked basically the same thing that I [11:08(4)] asked.

I thought LLM was an ESL program?

I went to a non-tier 1 lawschool. I was in the top 25% at my LS and did a joint JD/LLM program at one of the top Tax schools and was in the top of my class there and had NO problem getting to a Biglaw firm.

You just have to put in the effort to ensure that your in the top of your class at the LLM and it has to be a respected school.

But only in Tax. Don't bother with other programs.

Let's Live in aMerica!!!

Totally possible to go this route. I know a tax partner that used his LLM to switch his practice from litigation to tax. He had a degree from a decent state school and then spent a year at NYU. Suddenly he was a hot commodity and it only took him 4 years to make partner.

Yes, with the economy taking a dive, increasing numbers of acceptances by those getting offers from BigLaw in the traditional manner, and law firms probably reducing incoming class sizes for the next recruiting cycle to compensate... racking up more debt is absolutly a great idea for you.

Other than NYU, what is a top LLM Tax program?

I did exactly what the tipster is asking about--went to a Tier FOUR law school, top 25%, went to Georgetown for an LL.M. in tax straight out, graduated with honors (that's important!) and now work at Biglaw in NYC, straight out of the LL.M. program.

I think it's a great idea and many of the Georgetown LL.M. students in the program were there for exactly those reasons. They now all have jobs at BigLaw (or wherever they wanted to land--IRS, DOJ, whatever).

Good luck!

Only a good idea for tax. And then only at NYU (maybe UF if you plan to stay in the south).

What if I want to teach? Can an LLM - but not in tax, probably in IP - help me?

11:21 -- How were your grades at the T4?

All -- is there a "generalized" LLM or does it have to be in a particular area (tax, international law, etc.)

I went to Georgetown because I wasn't sure about wanting to be in NY, but I had no problem getting several offers at NY BigLaw after the recruiting program. Plus, I got work for Senate Finance for the year.

What about a BCL at Oxford or Cambridge? Anyone?

I went to a tier-one law school (top third) and moved to NYC right before 9/11 without have a job lined up. Oops!

Practiced litigation for a while with small boutique firm, hated it, and went back for my LL.M. at NYU when the economy sputtered. The idea was to eventually get a BigLaw job. At NYU, I got B+ avg and worked my way into BigLaw (with a detour tax consulting at a Big Four acct firm). There were many people in my LL.M. class that did the same, and who graduated from lower-ranked law schools than I did.

Keep in mind that few BigLaw firms will take LL.M.s without any real tax experience. Some LL.M.s I graduated with did a year or two at the Big Four prior to the LL.M., and were snatched up come interviewing time.

Bottom line is (subject to market conditions) it can be done.

My grades were top 50% the first year and a half, and then went up to top 10% by the end of the third year as I took more specialized tax classes.

There's a generalized LL.M. but only foreign students do that, and it won't help with the job market.

What about an LLM in a non-tax-based curriculum from a top 10 program (JD from a tier 1, top 45 school) after my clerkship and before a return to BigLaw? How do firms look at these degrees? Do they give credit toward partnership track in a manner similar to clerkships? Bonuses?

Or are non-tax programs not valued by firms because they may lead to adjunct teaching positions?

Here's the deal. The only LLM worth the paper its printed on in terms of a portable, transferrable crdential is in Tax, but even there, the exit options are becomming narrower and narrower these day. By narrow I mean that a Tax LLm necessarily means that you'll have to go for a tax job once finished, which are few and far between in many markets. (E.g., It is axiomatic that the more specific a discipline, the less jobs there are requiring that skill; also, in a bad economy, there are more people out there with skills who are able to compete for the few jobs available.)

Indeed, with the overall bearishness of the legal market (i.e., firms withdrawing summer offers, CWT firing 35 transactional attorneys, impending recession?), don't think that top half at a TT coupled with even top 20 percent at NYU LLM is assuring you entry into biglaw, if that is your ultimate goal.

got my JD at Stetson, LL.M in international law at George Washington, passed the bar in FL and NY.....my professional life is still in the shitter.

Just to present the other side of the story, some firms do not particularly like LLMs and see through the attempt to beef up a not-so-spectacular JD with a name-school LLM. I don't know how many firms have this attitude, but I clerked at two of them during my 1L and 2L summers.

11:29, do you even have an LL.M.? You must not have graduated recently. Demand in Tax and ERISA practices at BigLaw is still high, because no traditional first years ever want to join the practice. This remains true regardless of the market.

The top tax programs are NYU, Georgetown, and Florida. In that order.

Everyone knows that plenty of students go to LL.M. programs as resume builders. You can't just slack and hope that the letters "N.Y.U." on a piece of paper will save you. During my LL.M. at N.Y.U., it wasn't hard to tell which students were motivated to be good tax lawyers and which students were there because mommy and daddy would still pay the bills as long as the word "school" was still in play. I think that second group MOSTLY got jobs, but not in biglaw, and probably not well-paying enough to justify the huge debt that NYU adds. I know a few who had a rough time.

Also, at least within N.Y.C., and especially for people coming from N.Y. J.D. schools, there is a tiny bit of additional suspicion towards people who got their LL.M.'s right after their J.D.'s. It can easily be overcome by doing well at a good program.

I went from a Tier 3 School into Georgetown's LLM Tax Program and before first semester exams was recruited into a Big Four Accounting Firm in DC. My grades were never requested and I then leveraged that exeperience at the accounting firm into a law firm job doing corporate transactional work. I rarely do tax now but when it pops up I don't run screaming for the hills like some of the other associates that I work with.

Thanks 11:27 -- I was more generally curious whether getting an LLM helps folks get the necessary "prestige" to open doors that might be closed if the best academic credential they have on their CV is a T2, T3, or T4 school -- not so much the Biglaw holy grail.

Any thoughts on that?

11:29, do you even have an LL.M.? You must not have graduated recently. Demand in Tax and ERISA practices at BigLaw is still high, because no traditional first years ever want to join the practice. This remains true regardless of the market.

I am a tax associate at a BigLaw firm and agree with 11:30's comment. Also, I highly recommend taking a couple of tax classes before assuming that you will like tax and want to be a tax lawyer.

NYCers only - Did anyone else have trouble this morning on the 1 Local Train?

Damn MTA will be the end of this city!

To those of you who graduated from T2, are you liquid metal or just T-800 with an exoskeleton? Thanks!

I've been told that masters degrees--LLM or otherwise--matter little for getting teaching jobs. Too many people have them for them to really be a difference-maker, especially if your other credentials aren't that impressive.

Eric M. Krautheimer joined Sullivan & Cromwell in 1994 and became a partner of the Firm in January 2003. Eric is a partner in the Mergers and Acquisitions Group and has advised numerous domestic and international clients on a broad range of acquisition transactions.

1994, New York University School of Law, LL.M.

1993, Western New England College School of Law, J.D.

1990, State University of New York at Binghamton, B.A.

I do not have an LLM, but I do know of someone who went to a 4th Tier school and did not graduate in the top of his class. Not surprisingly, he did not have amazing job prospects after graduation. He did, however, decide he liked bankruptcy law and got an LLM in bankruptcy in New York. I think this may be the only place to get an LLM in bankruptcy and the program is small, so their career services gave them individualized attention and every person in that program, including the guy I know, got a job in a bankruptcy group at a decent/good firm after obtaining their LLM.

If you are interested in bankruptcy and currently have no good options, that might be something for you to consider.

I'll put the IRS out of business, y'all!

That John Conner comment is priceless.

Keep in mind: even with good credentials from a 2nd Tier and a top LL.M. in Tax, tax jobs are tough to find outside of NYC, DC, and maybe Chicago. Out of town, tax openings tend to be need-based rather than long-term goals.

I went to a state law school (in the top 50 but who cares once you are outside the top 10 or so schools) and was in the top 10% of my class, on law review etc. I went to NYU and did the Tax LLM. Now I'm at a Vault Top 10 firm in NYC. So it can be done.

That said, it matters more where you did your JD, even beyond getting the biglaw job. I'm good at what I do, and it drives me nuts when people say "wow, you really know this" because beneath their comment is the unspoken sentiment of "we expected less because you didn't go to a top 10 JD program". People go to state schools (often lower ranked) for all sorts of reasons, maybe it was all they could afford, maybe it was the only school they were accepted to, maybe they were the first person in their family to go to law school and no one advised them of the consequences of going to a non-Top 10 school. Who knows? WHO CARES!? I'll tell you who cares... From biglaw perspective, it matters most where you went to law school, not why you went to that school. The assumption is (and it is probably generally true) that the kids from the better schools have more raw ability.

The LLM may help get you the job. But, if you went to a lesser ranked JD program, you'd better be prepared to show that you've got the stuff to get the job done.

I have also personally heard from the head's of two different NYC Biglaw tax dept's that they would rather have the JD summers accept offers for tax rather than hire LLMs. There is a general perception that the better talent is in the JD summer associate pool. However, I agree (as someone else mentioned) that usually the summers don't want to do tax. And therefore both of these firms have interviewed and hired LLMs.

An NYU (or GT) LLM, even with good grades, does not beat a good JD, but the dearth of people who want to do tax means that there are usually offers for the top LLMs in Biglaw. With the bad market perhaps firms will force their summers into tax, so that might change things.

With an LLM in tax, would you recommend that I pursue sophisticated, cross-border transactional work, or complex, bet-the-company litigation? Thanks in advance...I really need your tippps!

There are plenty of tax jobs in Chicago for good candidates. This is especially true if you are willing to consider working for an accounting firm.

Only Tax; Only NYU, Georgetown or Florida

11:34 and 11:37

Yup, I got LL.M. (GW '07).
11:36 was correct--my parents paid for both JD and LL.M

"There are plenty of tax jobs in Chicago for good candidates. This is especially true if you are willing to consider working for an accounting firm."

This is especially true if after 4 years of school you are willing to work for about 75k a year

i am a T14 2L planning to specialize in tax and have a top-tier summer firm job in tax. i asked during my interviews about doing an LLM first and was told in no uncertain terms that such a move would be seen as a sign that i couldnt get a job out of my JD. plus any firm that wants you to have an LLM will pay for it -- why pay the money yourself if you dont have to?

11:29: WHAT FIRMS ARE WITHDRAWING SUMMER OFFERS?

LAT, WHY AREN'T YOU COVERING THIS?!?

I also hear G.W. has a killer LLM in IP Law if you are interested in IP matters.

The down shot of an LLM in IP, especially if you are into patents, is that it is generally more advisable to spend the money you are considering on an LLM in IP on a Master's or PhD in a science discipline instead.

John, the T-800 has a metal endoskeleton. HTH, ktxbi

In the NY Metro area it seems that an LLM in Tax from NYU is a requirement for big law tax

NYC Tax Associate: I didn't know accounting jobs paid so much less. But I think there are also plenty of BigLaw tax jobs in Chicago.

For those of you outside of New York/D.C., SMU has an excellent LL.M. program, most notably Professor Hanna. Job placement can be tricky, but if you do well and wait for the right opportunity, you can work wherever you want.

You must be on crack. Check out the websites for any of the top 20 firm. The majority of associates (or partners) do not have an LLM. The majority DO have good JD's

don't forget the Banking LLM at BU. Extremely high ranked, and BigLaw as well as investment banks highly appreciate it.

It is difficult to get a job out of an LL.M. program at a law firm because most firms have already filled up their first year classes through their summer programs. If you are willing to go the accounting firm route (which I would recommend against), a tax LL.M. is a great path; and there is a well worn path from accounting firms to law firm tax departments. As a part-time student in BU's tax LL.M. program (full-time tax attorney in Boston, T14 JD) and would not recommend going straight to an LL.M. program to 2Ls who could be getting into firms via regular recruiting.

That said: (1) This is based on the job prospects of some of the full time students I know -- NYU may be a different story; (2) Boston is a particularly tough market to break into for non-New Englanders; and (3) doing an LL.M. part-time also has its drawback-- client work always comes first.

NYC Tax Associate: I didn't know accounting jobs paid so much less. But I think there are also plenty of BigLaw tax jobs in Chicago.

Yes, they do, especially outside of National Office (DC) and NYC. Agreed as to your second point.

Putting aside grades and the attempt to "beef up" your resume with a LL.M., some firms will give credit for the LL.M. - some both in terms of pay and partnership track, other in terms of pay only.

partners in the tax dept. at Baker Botts in Houston said that they prefer to hire grads from top schools (without an LLM), but if they don't get any then they look to the LLM program.

"got my JD at Stetson, LL.M in international law at George Washington, passed the bar in FL and NY.....my professional life is still in the shitter."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

anybody got accounting firm salaries?

heard pwc pays 1st year JDs over 100 in the northeast

From my experience, US students who pursue an LLM do so because they did not do well during their JD or because went to a lower tiered law school. They often think that if they get an LLM in securities, they will break into bid law. Unfortunately, they are competing with 2Ls and 3Ls from the same school as their LLM, and those students obviouslty are going to a better JD program.

However, the above doesn't apply when a tax LLM comes into play. For tax positions, firms equally hire out of the LLM and JD programs, and some only consider LLMs. If you prefer an LLM, then make it tax, or else it'd be a waste of time and money.

If you're in DC and want to get a shot in the professional arm, a G.W. LLM in Government Contracts can transform you into a commodity. Government Contracts expertise is so hard to come by and so useful that firms in this town will overlook pretty much everything except a criminal record.

That said, you then have to do Government Contracts work for the rest of your life. Not exactly sexy.

Talahassee T5->V10:

The top tax litigation (bet the company) isn't done by the V10 firms. If you have a prestige issue (as many ATL commenters seem to have), complex cross-border transactional is your best bet. Cravath and Wachtel have outstanding practices in the latter, but if I've got a bet-the-company state tax litigation problem I'm calling McDermott.

I'm a current 3L at low TT and ranked in the top 5 of my class. I have a job in biglaw lined up after graduation. I don't know how long I want to attempt to stay at that particular firm. I'd like to move into appellate law in the DC market, appellate clerkship, or maybe one day DOJ. Would an LLM help me in any way with any of these goals? Already having a biglaw job, will it be worth while to find an LLM program - I have no desire to do anything tax related.

Would someone weigh in on whether it's better to get training as a Ninja prior to working in a Karate dojo, as opposed to working in a Karate dojo for several years and having the dojo pay for your Ninja training?

12:08 - 2006 LL.M., top third of J.D. program.

Offer from Deloitte $58,000; interviewed with KPMG (salary #45,000), thankfully, obtained starting $135,000 in law.

Accounting with be better QOL (maybe) with much less money

The downside: Tax is the only LLM worth a shit, and even then, you have to practice Tax.

What do you do when your firm puts you in the tax department against your wishes?

Many firms look at people with LLM even from Gtown or NYU as just dressing up a bad jd unless the jd is good with good/medium grades.

Tax is the only LLM that can get you employed, unless you do a certificate in employee benefits (non-LLM mini certificate)

3l at 12:12,
Don't bother with an LLM. Concentrate on getting a clerkship first. With your credentials, you should be able to get one. If you really want to do appellate, try for a District Court then apply for Court of Appeals, or a state Supreme.

I got my JD from a tier 2 school and my LLM from one of the top 3. I can tell you that if you want to become a law professor, forget it. First of all, despite all the talk about the "American JD academic" tracks for LLM programs, there's NO investment made by the schools to get you a faculty position. They take your $50,000 and run. I deeply regret getting my LLM degree irrespective of the ivy name.

70k offer from deloitte (1st year JD), offer to pay for LLM up to deloitte's std policy

Transactional tax work for Big4 accounting pays 100k base (in nyc) plus some so-so bonuses. Almost everyone here is an attorney. Not quite Biglaw $$$ but enough to go to Sparks for dinner tongiht.

Seriously, what are the offers from the Big 4? I never considered it, always thought QOL would be the same, but far less money. Obviously, include market.

ONE MAJOR CAVEAT:

As has been said, the Tax LL.M. is probably the only one that's worth anything at all.

MAKE SURE YOU ACTUALLY WANT TO PRACTICE TAX BEFORE GOING THIS ROUTE!!!!

Don't throw good money after bad. If you only graduated mid pack at a top 25, what makes you think you will be a good tax lawyer?

11:50 is dead on.

I am at V15 firm and the only reason I got this job was because of the NYU LLM in Tax. I think the program is helpful but more of a glorified union card.

12:18,

The chances of you getting an LLM degree from HYS is about .1%. Cut the crap.

I'm a 3L at a T2 school ranked in the 60's. Top 12%, law review, publications, state clerkship, and seven tax courses under my belt at the J.D. level. I actually want to do tax work, and I've applied to NYU and Georgetown.

Given the comments in this thread, there seems to be a split as to whether a tax LLM from either of these schools would be worth it to me. I don't want to spend another $60k and still end up unemployed, as my T2 school has left me.

3L at T2 - I think you'll be fine. First, if you took all those courses as a J.D. and did well, you'll probably ace them as an LL.M. (you would be suprised how many LL.Ms have only taken income tax). Second, you did well in law school, and that really matters to employers.

If you truly want to do tax work, this will show, and getting an LL.M. in your case is probably smart.

Seriously people, why do you expose yourself to the mockery of others by admitting that you attended a less than T5 law school.

I, on the other hand, attended top-of-the-line Regent Law School. I am also interested in pursuing a LLM in government from Regent Law School as well. What are the odds of becoming a professor at Harvard, Yale, or Columbia?

12:18--

Did you get your LLM in a general area at the top 3 school in which you enrolled? I'm planning on applying to pursue my academic interests, to publish more, and with a hope of returning to my BigLaw position with a little boost. What specifically was bad about your program?

What about certificate programs without an LLM, too? Are those worthwhile?

12:44

A certificate is worth less than the tissue I used to wipe my man-juice off of your mother with!

All of the LLM and Certificate seekers need to come to the sad reality that you will top out with a salary of ~50K/year.

The dream is over people! You suck!

Get Over It - my sad reality with my LL.M. is that I make $160,000 as do many of my other classmates. Sad indeed.

12:24 -

After getting my LL.M. I was given an offer to work at Deloitte Tax for $70k (back in 2004). That was with credit for an LL.M. degree. Hopefully they've upped starting salaries since then.

All the Big Four do on-campus interviewing at NYU for LL.M.s - but I'm not sure how many they are taking these days. They won't pay a lot of money, but it's a great place to develop some skills that you won't at BigLaw.

"12:08 - 2006 LL.M., top third of J.D. program.

Offer from Deloitte $58,000; interviewed with KPMG (salary #45,000), thankfully, obtained starting $135,000 in law.

Accounting with be better QOL (maybe) with much less money"

I don't know what office you interviewed in but I had an offer from KPMG for 50k in NJ - with only an accounting degree in 2004.

NY Big 4 consulting groups, especially the speciality groups (M&A, SALT, Int'l) pay 100-110k.

That said I'm going to a law firm making more.

meanie!

I don't think he was talking about the NYU/GT tax LLM people (or at least those with good grades)

11:34 AM, to answer your question, no, I graduated 4 years ago, and am actually at Biglaw. In other words, I know about which I speak.

No, there simply aren't many jobs out there in such a narrow area of the law -- Tax. Firms wouldn't fire transactional associates in NYC -- NYC! -- and withdraw summer associate offers if there were, as you say, a "high" demand for tax and ERISA jobs.

You haven't thought your arguments through logically. You actually write with a straight face that there are many open tax jobs at biglaw waiting to be filled, but that no one will apply for them?!!! Huh?

If this were true, then why are people on this thread, for instance, actually contemplating resume padding with LLMs to get their foot into the door of biglaw (i.e., an any means necessary approach)? In other words, why in the world wouldn't they apply to ANY biglaw practice area where there are jobs.

I recently saw a good friend of mine with stellar credentials and an LLM from Georgetown struggle to get an ERISA spot in DC. In the end, after about a year of applying and applying through a reputable headhunter, he had one pretty crappy offer to show for it. (That is, the job required him to travel south a few times monthly and didn't even pay "market.")

Sure, this tale is anecdotal, but we're talking about people with lacking law school numbers and/or schools seeking to get LLMs to beef up their resumes. This is plain sketchy in a good economy; in a bad economy, well ... why not just try it, see what happens, and then report back.

I dream of one day finding a box of money.

I hope to eventually teach. I'm #1 at a T2 school. If I get an LLM from a top school, do you think this will help my chances at academia?

if you want academia, it's just like the rest of the academic world - a master's means nothing, you need the terminal degree.

in law, that's a JSD, not an LLM. it won't guarantee anything, but a JSD from harvard or columbia will at least help your prospects somewhat.

Why not allow a great LLM to dress up a poor JD? After all, many people dress up poor UGs with great JDs.

Its SJD not JSD btw.

Here are some observations from personal experience and close friends who have done it:

1. For American students with good JDs and who want to improve their chances of getting into teaching, an LLM at a top foreign school (and I really mean only places like Oxford, Cambridge or London Universities) would be more useful than an LLM from a T6 school here.

2. For foreign students who speak fluent English and are from good foreign law schools, an LLM at a T6 US law school would be very helpful in getting a job at Biglaw. I know many, many Harvard and Columbia LLMs at top firms in NYC. But I stress, this only works for international students from top foreign law schools.

Anyone have an opinion about Harvard's LLM in International Finance?

I am a 3L at a top 25 school, top 5 in class, law review and have a Biglaw job lined up after graduation, but am thinking the Int'l Finance LLM is a good way to get additional specialty.

Would I be wasting my time?

11:57 AM, its me again.

Look to the posts on ATL yesterday or maybe the day before about firms talking people that they've extended offers into NOT accepting because the firms have overcommitted and wouldn't likely be making many perm offers. I believe that Skadden NYC was mentioned, along with a few others.

I say all of that to indicate that while biglaw is stronger than a lot of other markets, it's not two years ago. Hiring is slowing a bit as there is less work in certain areas. People should be aware of this when considering applying to law school; they should use this as motivation for doing well in law school; and this should influence what they do after law school.

The state of the market should also inform what kind of law you decide to practice once you graduate (i.e., broad, general, largely recession-proof practice areas as opposed to overly-specialized practice areas like ERISA, for instance.)

You'd be surprised how many NYC biglaw firms are looking for tax midlevels (and in many cases even juniors). Of course, as people have already pointed out, firms are hesistant to hire LLMs without good JD credentials, so the LLM only helps in getting your foot through the door if you do well.

12:12-

12:17 is right. Get the clerkships first. Depending what you want to do at the DoJ, you'll probably need a CoA clerkship to do any of those things. And starting with the district court level is probably your best chance at a circuit clerkship.

Your class rank will help, but it's tough to break in from T2. To put things in perspective, here is the data on this year's appellate clerkships:

"Distribution of clerks by law school tier
Distribution of clerks by law school tiers, calculated for 513 total clerks.

T1 470 91.6%
T2 32 6.2%
T3 6 1.2%
T4 5 1.0%

T30 446 86.9%
others 67 13.1%

T18 396 77.2%
others 117 22.8%

T14 346 67.4%
others 167 32.6%

T7 248 48.3%
others 265 51.7%

HYS 157 30.6%
others 356 69.4%"

Ok, this is repetition, but the good LLM Tax Schools are NYU, Georgetown, Northwestern and Flordia. I place Northwestern above FL strictly b/c the likelihood of getting a BigLaw job in the North from FL is slim (not impossible, but slim.) Also having seen the people at NU interview last year a lot of them job at BigLaw and the Big4.

Did you know only lawyers can get an LLM? I am a lawyer and I do not have an LLM, but as a lawyer, I could get an LLM because I am a lawyer.

3 V25 firms withdrew summer offers...

SLightly different variation on the question: if you have an excellent JD (both rank & grades) and you want to transition as a mid-level into a very different kind of practice (say, from general litigation into securities; or from lit to bankruptcy, or from public interest law to big law), will an LLM help?

after my nyu llm tax class last night, i overhead one of the students say "i understood everything [the professor] said for the most part, but when he did numbers, he lost me"

also, there was a fanny pack in the room.

12:11 took the bait hook-line-and-sinker.

12:11 - Do you work at Wachtell or Cravath? If so, when did they start hiring morons?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

T5->V10 pwns!!!

12:12 - I would get your ninja training first. I was a 4th level blackbelt coming from a T2 dojo, but went I tried to break into biglaw I just couldn't cut it. That's when I got into the LLM program at Cobra Kai. Now, I'm a 5th level black-belt and get to do complex-cross-border leg sweeping and bet-the-dojo litigation all the time.

Like Miyagi said, "don't learn karate to fight, learn karate so don't have to fight."

personal experience -- nyu tax llm will help you get a job in nyc/dc only if you have really strong grades (b+ and above, usually *above*); if you put in an effort at nyu and care about learning tax, you will get the necessary grades on the other hand nyu tax llm will help you get a job in almost any small-midsize regional firm in a regional market regardless of what your grades are (because if your record is good enough for nyu, it is good enough for regional law).

12:17, 1:08 - Does it matter where I do a district clerkship or are some areas (besides obviously someplace like SDNY) better than others? I'll be working biglaw next fall. Will that hurt or help me in terms of clerkships? (Sorry to get off topic). This past round I just applied to CoA and SDNY - got some interviews but obviously no offers.

Finish him, Johnny!

What about foreigners who get their LLMs here and get a jobs in NY BigLaw. I know couple of them.

I recently spoke with a partner at a top firm in NYC. He graduated top of his class at a second tier school, but got an LLM at NYU. he said that without the LLM, he wouldn't be where he is today. but for someone who goes to a top school, an LLM isn't necessary to get a job, unless you're in the bottom of your class.

Do incoming LLM associates make the same salary as JDs?

I did my law degree in a Commonwealth jurisdiction. I started it when I was 17 straight out of high school (standard where I am from). It cost about USD3,000 per year. At 21 I joined a local corporate firm where I worked for two years. At 23 I joined the ranks of BigLaw in NYC. I was given credit for a year so went in on 170 + bonus. And I didn't have to spend $150k at Yale to get there. Furthermore, as I'm not from the US I don't pay NY city tax, social security and Medicare. My rent is tax deductible also. You can say what ever you want about law schools that you deem beneath you, but at the end of the day, at 23 I was earning $170k, paying a third less tax and had no student debt. I am very happy I didn't spend a fortune on my education.

Get an MBA and move to the client side if you have some good work experience. In keeping with all this LLM garbage (excluding tax), I remember at a roundtable discussion at my T2 law school one moron asked a real estate partner at a fairly large Chicago firm whether getting his LLM in real estate law would help his career prospects in that field. The partner actually laughed out loud and said "No, it won't. Next question" Drew Rosenhaus style. Said partner was (and remains) a douche but spoke the truth.

During my interview lunch with a V10 firm, one of the associates said that after getting a foreign JD and a T6 LLM, she got NO biglaw offers. She went back to the school that gave her the T6 LLM and spent three more years there earning a JD before she was able to crack into biglaw. Total bummer.

"I also hear G.W. has a killer LLM in IP Law if you are interested in IP matters."

There is no such thing. An LLM will not help you get a job in IP. Period.

Sorry. To clarify, I don't mean she went to a tier 6 school (whatever that would be). She went to Penn.

Lol @ Tier 6.

1:33-

A lot of judge like prospective clerks that have worked a year or two, plus grads don't have to abide by the law clerk hiring plan, so working for a year will help. I'm not sure that judges care too much about what firm you worked for.

Anyhow, yes, certain districts are definitely more prestigious than others. These tend to be the districts around major cities, such as S.D.N.Y., E.D.VA., N.D.IL., D.D.C., N.D.Cal., C.D.Cal., etc. My feeling is that coming from one of these places would help you.

That said, its also worth noting that district judges will know the circuit judges in their circuit from the judicial conference, so a recommendation from a respected, well-connected district judge is a good way to move up in the same circuit.

guys in my high school got LLMs all the time to help em get chicks...it was no big deal.

Right on Patent Litigator! I agree 100%! An LLM in IP isn't going to help a wannabe patent litigator get a patent litigation job just like being a patent litigator will never make you a real patent attorney . . . unless you actually have a hard science background and can sit for the patent bar.

1:01 -

it can be jsd or sjd

http://www.law.harvard.edu/academics/graduate/programs/sjd.php
http://www.law.columbia.edu/llm_jsd/jsd/candidates

Ipso Facto said:

"Why not allow a great LLM to dress up a poor JD? After all, many people dress up poor UGs with great JDs."

This is analogous to what "NY Patent Litigator" has done. As mentioned by 2:15, a Patent Litigator is not a patent attorney - he's a litigator. By calling himself "NY Patent Litigator" he is essentially dressing up the fact that he's nothing more than a litigator. NY Patent Litigator probably does worker's comp litigation in addition to his patent litigation as it all falls under the ambit of litigation!

01:35 PM (Posted by: me), just because some partner who is God knows how old and graduated in God knows what legal market was successful doing something doesn't mean that that "something" is applicable today.

Case and point: Go to the website of any top 100 firm, AM Law or Vault, and do a search for supreme court clerks. The one/s under, say, 50 usually followed the traditional path to these types of clerkships, i.e., HYS law review to feeder judge on DC, Second, or 9th Circuit onto the SCOTUS. The ones over 50 largely went directly from law school (primarily HYS too but not necessarily journal) to their supreme court clerkships. Generational difference.

Things are a lot more competitive now, especially with the turn in the economy. I always smile when law students or prospective law students cite as an exception some 60 year old partner who went to a TTTT school and made it because (likely) his dad golfed with the Governor. I gently point out to them that (1) it was before rankings, and most importanly, (2) relying on exceptions is not a good rhetorical tool, nor is a good thing to count on in life.

1.39 - You can deduct your rent? What visa are you on and how can I get in contact with your accountant? I am on an E-3.

it's best to go to a top 14 jd and get an nyu llm, if you want to be a tax lawyer.

I know some associates and partners from NYC biglaw that have foreign JD and US LLM and it got them to the big law without any problems. They might also have some international legal background which sometimes is helpful.

People on this board are really overlooking Florida for Tax. You can, and will get a big law job with a UF tax LLM. You'll also get that chance to see a great football team, and not have to pay private university prices for one year.

11:21 said:

"I think it's a great idea and many of the Georgetown LL.M. students in the program were there for exactly those reasons. They now all have jobs at BigLaw (or wherever they wanted to land--IRS, DOJ, whatever)."

I have a hard time believing this. I graduated from Georgetown LLM, and biglaw jobs definitely were NOT handed out like candy to students.

The LLM is a credential, not a cosmetic. It cannot wipe the stink away from a toilet JD. Almost all of the people I know who landed in biglaw from Gtown had something else going from them -- specifically, relatively strong JD backgrounds (e.g. top 15% from top 75 schools).

Most of the persons who did TIP were shut out. Many landed in accounting firms, some doing equity taxes in Dallas.

The IRS and Tax Court both hire a fair amount of LLMs, and employment with one of those two may be a more realistic expectation. However, they don't pay all that much.

If OP wants to do the tax LLM because he is interested in tax, then it's probably a good choice. But, doing it to wipe the sh!t off of his JD is not a compelling reason to obtain the degree.

2:34 (E-3)

I'm on a J-1 visa. The rent deduction isn't permanent (once I switch to a more permanent visa the rent deductions are no longer available). But I will ride them while I can. Sorry, but no rent deductions on the E-3.

Anyone know anything about the Securities and Financial Regulation from Gtown? Job prospects in DC after grad?

I'm doing the Securities and Financial Regulation program part-time at GT next year while working full time. To all you tax people, can I deduct my tuition above the 2% AGI limit?

119:

Thanks for the props! NOW PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR TIPPPPS!!!

3:31 deduction is a big "maybe"

get your employer to pay for it moron

Employer (government) won't pay.

Has anyone heard of Harvard's LLM in Litigation Maximization Specialization? I am currently a 3L at a Tier 4 school (Toledo) and my career services officer recommended it to me so I could get a job. You see, I am in the bottom 25% and I really want to get a NYC BIGLAW job doing some business stuff. Cravath would be ideal but S&C would be a decent backup. Do you think Harvard's LLM in LMS would put me in contention?

As the ol'e saying goes, "You can't polish a terd."

3:31:

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p970/ch12.html#d0e11584

there's a lot of case law on this...if you're not working in a securities-related position, it's going to be difficult to deduct

I would like some serious comments on this. You see, my career services officer really recommended this program to me, especially when I couldn't get any interviews with the midsize firms here in Toledo. I would just hate to go to law school for 3 years without getting a job, and I wouldn't mind going for another year if I could end up at Cravath.

And does anyone have any info on Harvard's LLM in LMS? I can't seem to find any on their website, though it is relatively difficult to navigate. Does anyone have one?

Graduated T25 law, top half of class. Worked at boutique transactional shop that went belly up along with real estate market. Getting LLM in international (completely different field than what I practiced before) at GW...think it helps, I've gotten good clerkships at the ITC and USTR, but Biglaw is still skeptical about why I have no Biglaw on my resume.

I'm hoping that with the LLM and two clerships I'll be able to get a job, but the verdict is still out.

At any rate, doing the LLM is better than doc review.

Caveat for would be GW LLM applicants: the career services girl at GW assigned to help LLMs is the pits. She'll tell you to network and then throw you out of her office.

Anyone know the acceptance rates for Yale's LLM? I'm second in my class at a (lower) T1 school and have two articles published (or pending) in law reviews.

I hear Regent has a great LLM in Jesus Law!

I really wish you guys would take me seriously. You see, when I went to Toledo, I thought I would be able to end up in BIGLAW making the BIGBUCKS. I am very disappointed in not having a job, though my cousin does manage a Joseph A. Banks suit store and I think I'm gonna get a job there. You rich lawyers can at least come visit me and buy your expensive suits from me since you won't give me advice about Harvard's LLM in LMS.

3:54

The Yale LLM is extremely tough to get in - they take like 20 people a year. I think it is restricted to applicants who are committed to a teaching career.

Would you recommend a NYU LLM to a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd-year tax associate (with little tax/accounting experience) at a Vault 100 firm (who does not work in the firm's NY office) and is considering earning the NYU LLM to increase (a) the odds of making partner at the current firm or (b) that associate's marketability with respect to potential clients or other firms/businesses?

Would you recommend a NYU LLM to a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd-year tax associate (with little tax/accounting experience but who graduated from a top-20 law school) at a Vault 100 firm (who does not work in the firm's NY office) and is considering earning the NYU LLM to increase (a) the odds of making partner at the current firm or (b) that associate's marketability with respect to potential clients or other firms/businesses?

trolls are less funny when you try so hard, 4:12

I am currently a first year, getting my JD at NYU Law. No prior tax/accounting experience. What should I do to get the best possible tax job coming out of school?

4:34 I think the best thing for you to do is contact me.

I would love to get you some great tax experience at H&R Block; afterall, the tax season is upon us.

4:34 - Take tax classes and do well in them. When you interview for your 2L summer, tell them you want to be in the tax group and interview with the tax people. Have a good answer to the question "why do you want to do tax." If you have good grades, you should have offers at any firms with good tax departments.

T2 grad here. I've got a (federal) COA clerkship but am wondering if I can wash even more of the ick off my T2 degree with an LLM from a top 5 school. In particular, will that LLM increase my chances of becoming AUSA or working for the DOJ in DC at some point?

4:40,

You have a COA clerkship, and you still have such an inferiority complex? Get over yourself.

T2 JD - you'll do fine with the COA clerkship alone. If you get a Tax LLM (the only one worth a sh_t), you'll simply look confused. Besides working on tax crimes (a narrow area), how would the LLM assist you with the DOJ or as an AUSA?

Even if you graduated first in your class at Davis, you still went to Davis.

Get an LLM degree from Georgetown. It will make you feel better about yourself.

I went to a top 25 law school, graduated in the top half, but not by much. No love from the firms. I started an LLM in tax at a lower-ranked school, and got a job at a firm before I even finished the degree (one more semester to go...) So, I think it helped. Then again, maybe I just finally learned how to interview well.

"Happy with her non-Yale..."

So you're a student now?

FYI. 2008 US News Top Tax Grad Schools (with ties)

* 1. NYU (#1 last year)
* 2. Florida (#2)
* 3. Georgetown (#3)
* 4. Northwestern (#4)
* 5. Harvard (#5)
* 6. Miami (#5)
* 7. UCLA (#7)
* 8. Boston University (#7)
* 9. Texas (#15)
* 10. San Diego (#9)
* 10. Virginia (#11)
* 10. Yale (#11)

I know the comments here are focused on biglaw and tax llms and such, but I wondered if anybody had any comments on the job prospects with an LL.M. in International Law, not in biglaw, but in actual public international law (UN, OAS, etc., or perhaps federal government)?

Southern state school grad

If you want to do high level public international law (UN, ICJ, World Bank, etc.), an LLM in International Law from a top internationally recognized school will definitely help. As far as I know, among the US law schools, the Harvard LLM probably offers the best prospects. It also allows you to get to know many future colleagues and peers in the international arena.

more than a few HLS/CLS/NYU JDs get the tax llm - not because they need it but because tax is a technical field and additional formal education is valued by some.

acudemiks - you're wrong. All one needs to enter legal academia is the JD. Legal academia probably the snootiest of the legal worlds however, and schools routinely hire only HYS.

12:18 has a good point. A T2 grad absolutely can get an LL.M from a top three school (12:30's comment is typical ATL garbage), but most law school hiring committees see that for what it is: a way to sanitize a smelly degree.

A better route for a T2 grad is to look into one of the teaching fellowship or Visiting Assistant Professor programs. Those programs do provide support on the academic market, and give provide teaching experience and scholarship support as well.

I got my LL.M. in tax from NYU after doing very well at a toilet law school. I quickly realized the LL.M. is not a magic wand you can wave to get into Biglaw, so I clerked at the Tax Court for a couple years after NYU. It was the clerkship, more than anything else, that got me the job I have today-- counsel at a top law firm, with prospects for partnership. By the way, they never EVER let you forget where you went to law school.

5:58 - Yale does not offer an LL.M. in taxation.

For a thorough list of graduate tax programs, please look here: http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2007/03/new_2008_us_new_1.html

Everything I want to say has been said already. An LL.M. is a credential only. And, if you do spend the 40k to obtain one, it had better be in tax. I just met a waiter at a restaurant who has an LL.M. in International Law from George Washington who has been looking for a job for over a year, just to put things in perspective.

i have a JD from a bottom tier 1 school and then went and got a LLM in an area other than tax. It worked very well for me, but primarily because I networked like crazy while I was there and landed internships. Also, LL.M. programs do give scholarships, which meant it was an easy decision for me. The best advice I can give anyone considering such a move is to contact as many alumni of the program as possible and find out where they ended up. Out of my ll.m. class, the ones like me that got biglaw jobs were mainly those with decent credentials to begin with, but there was at least one T4 student who landed a great job directly as a result of the ll.m.

I went to a low tier law school. I got an LLM. I got a job at a big firm. blah blah blah blah blah.

You still went to a shit school and then were one of the loser LLMs that all the JDs laughed at behind your back.

I got my tax LLM from NYU. It is definitely a resume booster, and got me my current job as a tax associate in a big law firm. But I think prospective LLM students should be aware that if you want to be located somewhere other than NYC and Washington DC, it's going to be tough. You have to know your market. If you're in LA and not interested in doing estate planning, you're going to find it tough to find a job even with an LLM.

Toledo has a law school? Why dont you try looking at the attorney profiles at Cravath and see if anyone has managed to go from a tier 4 (lol) to Harvard to Cravath (or something similar). I am betting against it. I would not usually post such obvious advice but I assume you need it since you are foolishly listening to anyone in your career services office.

I went to Miami for an llm in estate planning. Now I have a great job at a boutique firm in a great city, and while I was in Miami I nailed more hot pussy than you guys would honestly believe. Smartest decision I ever made.

11:11

I wouldn't normally respond to comments with personal info, but your stupid and arrogant comment really annoyed me and gives other JDs a bad name. I work at DPW, and some of the most brilliant and nicest partners and senior associates are foreigners who got their law degrees abroad and an LLM here (admittedly, almost all from Harvard). But we (and I mean T6 JDs) greatly respect these guys and enjoy working with and learning from them.

T2 law school, graduated top third, practicing civil rights litigation for the past five years. Currently interested in moving towards International Law/Human Rights. Any LLM advice?

Foreigners: get an LLM if you want to work in the U.S. (but for the love of God don't talk during the 1L classes you are forced to take).

Americans: get an LLM if you want to do tax work but don't have the credentials.

Otherwise: don't get an LLM or an SJD. (No, they will not help you get a teaching job; if that was your ambition, you should have obtained a prestigious JD and/or law review position and/or clerkship.)

11:11 has a small penis. And he squats to pee.

Excuse the ramblings, but I am trying to make this quick. I graduated from a law school sitting at the top of the fourth tier (anyone impressed?). I, however, was not at the top of my class. If you can get into the top five tax schools (NYU, Georgetown, UofFlorida, Miami or Boston) you should go. If you cannot get into the top five, then go to the location where you want to live and practice and apply to their LL.M. in tax.

I went to NYU. Everyone in my class, excepting two or three, graduated from non-first tier schools.

For those at the top of their class, they don't need an LL.M. to get a biglaw job. But for all others, getting the LL.M. substantially reduces the baggage you carry for not attending a top school (it basically wipes out your past for many biglaw firms). For example, my particular fourth tier law school class turned out about 10 LL.M.s and we all work at top tier firms.

The point is that you don't need the LL.M. if you can otherwise get into Biglaw. But if you find the doors are closed, then go to the LL.M. But if you do, you have to make sure you grade well there.

Last point. These LL.M programs accept on a rolling admission. I suggest getting your professors behind you and applying on the first day of rolling admissions.

Excuse the ramblings, but I am trying to make this quick. I graduated from a law school sitting at the top of the fourth tier (anyone impressed?). I, however, was not at the top of my class. If you can get into the top five tax schools (NYU, Georgetown, UofFlorida, Miami or Boston) you should go. If you cannot get into the top five, then go to the location where you want to live and practice and apply to their LL.M. in tax.

I went to NYU. Everyone in my class, excepting two or three, graduated from non-first tier schools.

For those at the top of their class, they don't need an LL.M. to get a biglaw job. But for all others, getting the LL.M. substantially reduces the baggage you carry for not attending a top school (it basically wipes out your past for many biglaw firms). For example, my particular fourth tier law school class turned out about 10 LL.M.s and we all work at top tier firms.

The point is that you don't need the LL.M. if you can otherwise get into Biglaw. But if you find the doors are closed, then go to the LL.M. But if you do, you have to make sure you grade well there.

Last point. These LL.M programs accept on a rolling admission. I suggest getting your professors behind you and applying on the first day of rolling admissions.

Does anyone have any thoughts with respect to University of Washington's LLM in taxation?

11:38 - no, you're a towel... i wasn't talking about foreigners, they're cool in my - and everyone's - book. I am surprised you assumed I was talking about foreigners. You're a lawyer at DPW? Wow, talk about completely missing the point. I feel sorry for your coworkers.

9:58 - you're absolutely right. In fact, I squat to do pretty much everything. Unfortunately for you, you're still a turd LLM. Zing.

11:38 - no, you're a towel... i wasn't talking about foreigners, they're cool in my - and everyone's - book. I am surprised you assumed I was talking about foreigners. You're a lawyer at DPW? Wow, talk about completely missing the point. I feel sorry for your coworkers.

9:58 - you're absolutely right. In fact, I squat to do pretty much everything. Unfortunately for you, you're still a turd. Zing.

Columbia's LLM program is awesome.

11:11 is witty.

11:55 - you responded to a post that was sarcastic. You missed the boat, buddy. Get a clue.

an LL.M. in Tax is a CREDENTIAL, NOT a COSMETIC.

Law is an elitist profession (shock!), and it doesn't matter how much makeup you put on that pig, I mean 3rd or 4th Tier J.D.

The market is the market. When it is hot, firms want warm bodies and care a little less about the beauty pageant. When it is not, it is not. Going from a J.D. #20-50 in the rankings with good grades (at least top 25%) probably won't get you in the door at BIGLAW, but add an LL.M. in Tax from NYU and you should be able to get in the door (probably G'Town too).

As for the NYU vs. the field, remember there are like 200+ law schools and all anyone cares about is being a top 10 law school. Well, there are about 20-30 Tax LL.M. programs, so you do the math--if you are not at the best 1 (or #2) you might as well be adding the equivalent of a Tier 3 or 4 J.D. to your Tier 3 or 4 J.D.

Exception to the NYU rule: if you go part time at night in a town with an LL.M. program and plan to stay in town and do tax it can be worth it.

And all the Florida LL.M.'s are going to flame on now, but on geography alone it is easier to go from DC or NY to DC or NY than from Gainesville to NY, DC, or any large city. Alas, the NYU rule flame war is old hat and not worthy of rehashing.

Truth be told: it is better to be lucky than good (and better to know people than have credentials).

8:46 - truth be told, it is better to keep your mouth shut when you have no clue.

bottom line, if you are $100K in debt and can't get a good job because of bad credentials, you probably shouldnt spend another 30K on a ll.m. as its not a sure thing but a tax ll.m. is your best bet. if money is no object then sure, roll the dice as it certainly won't hurt.

I went to a fourth tier law school and was in the top 20% of my class and graduated with honors. I had job prospects but they were not what I wanted. I am now in the UF Tax LLM and have since gotten a BigLaw job. I was offered the job during the first semester without having my LLM grades.

However, I also worked for two courts, a corporation and a public defender during my time as a JD. I like to think that my experiences also helped get me the job.

In my experience, the LLM does help bolster the resume, but I still do not think it can make up for poor JD grades or work experience on the resume.

I got an LLM in Securities & Financial Regulation from Georgetown right after my JD. (My law school was ranked about 30 in USNews, and I was somewhere around the 70th+ percentile in my class.)

I got the LLM because I knew I wanted to do securities enforcement work--and do it in D.C. I thus hoped the LLM would be a bridge between law school (in the Midwest) and getting a job as a securities enforcement attorney in D.C. (whether at a law firm or at the SEC). Ultimately, I got a great job doing securities enforcement in D.C. shortly after graduation, so the LLM served my purposes perfectly. But I was rather lucky; a lot of my colleagues in the Sec Reg program had to settle for not-very-glamorous jobs or positions completely unrelated to securities law. (For example, I think two LLMs out of over 40 of us got into the SEC.)

I'd say the caliber of LLM student was basically on par with my law school (maybe a little lower; there were some screwballs in the LLM). So, to my mind, you really just have to balance your career interests, financial situation, and risk tolerance.

Oh. And just FYI -- the GU LLM career services people were absolutely worthless. Their advice was basically: "Congratulations on being admitted to the LLM program. [blah blah blah] Now, go find a job. Good luck!"

I'm a 3L at a 15-18 school; I'm at the median. I have two tax classes so far - A- in one and B+ in the other; I'm currently taking a third (I'm assuming for LLM admissions straight out of school my grade here wouldn't matter much, since it won't show up). Would going to an LLM program, assuming it's NYU/Florida/G-Town be worth it? I'm looking ideally to get a midlaw-type position; I think now I'd work for a larger firm if I had the chance, though (I mean after graduating from the LLM program).

Also, how are admissions for the programs?

Does anyone know how difficult it is to get into these programs? NYU or Gtown?

Graduated magna from a T2 school with several tax courses and worked for the IRS for two years then joined a Big4 national group - all this is entirely research and writing. Big4 paid for my LLM at NYU (about 80% of the cost). I make about 115K and work about 40 hours per/week. I had the chance to switch to Big Law (approxmiately 50K raise) but turned it down after discussing the billiable expectations.

I did an LLM in bankruptcy. I never had any interest in changing jobs but many of the other students were getting great offers in big lawfirms in the bankruptcy arena.

I don't see how an LLM can ever be a negative and the specialized knowledge is always an asset.

Also, I firmly believe that a part time program is the way to go if you can coordinate it. You don't lose your employment income.

Im #1 in my class at the #1 law school in the nation and I still can't get a job...should have gone to medical school!

I know an attorney who went to a T4 (Whittier), got his LL.M in tax at SMU, spent a few years in the big five, and went to Simpson Thacher as counsel.

I'm a tax professor at Loyola Law School Los Angeles, whose Tax LLM program is now ranked first in the western United States. We typically accept students in the top half or top third of their JD class, depending on the school. In the recent past, we have had an extraordinary placement record. Last year, EVERY graduating LLM had landed a good job -- some BigLaw, some Big Four, some boutique tax firms. The reason is simple: we put a lot of effort into placement. When choosing an LLM program, you should take this factor into consideration; many programs do not view placement as a core part of their mission. When choosing an LLM program, I recommend that you think of an LLM as a knowledge enhancer rather than as a resume enhancer. If you've received a solid grounding in tax and tax practice, you'll do well. I you haven't, you won't.

I got an LLM at Boston University in tax (ranked 5-6ish in the country). The key is do you want to do tax? Now I did relatively well at a tier two school (top 17%) and didn't really look for a job too much, but I had some good offers, no big law. I knew I wanted to do tax and I didn't have any loans, so I decided to go for an LLM.
At first I was disgusted that I was having difficulty in finding a job, the offers eventually came. BU's program is only ranked 5-6, but really it's a much better program than the ranking and is quite well known in New England and the general northeast. I got a good job at a boutique tax firm. So from my experience, this is what I say: If you want to do tax, get an LLM, especially if you aren't going to Harvard or a tier one school. You will probably NOT work at a big firm. But do you really want to work with elitist snobs for 75 hours a week?

I'm in my 3rd year, #1 in my class at a 2nd tier law school... worked both summers in law school at a big regional firm in the south. I really love tax work, and I want to do tax, and everyone in their tax department has an LLM, it's essentially necessary to work in it. They offered me a job in their corporate group, but said if I wanted to be in the tax group I need to get my LLM. So now I'm applying to get the LLM (UF, NYU)... is this a mistake? Should I just take the job in the corporate group and suck it up, and hope to somehow weasel my way into tax? I don't mind going to school for another year, it just seems from all the posts on this board that the LLM may not be worth it. But if I want to do tax law, it seems necessary. Any thoughts?

I'm in my 3rd year, #1 in my class at a 2nd tier law school... worked both summers in law school at a big regional firm in the south. I really love tax work, and I want to do tax, and everyone in their tax department has an LLM, it's essentially necessary to work in it. They offered me a job in their corporate group, but said if I wanted to be in the tax group I need to get my LLM. So now I'm applying to get the LLM (UF, NYU)... is this a mistake? Should I just take the job in the corporate group and suck it up, and hope to somehow weasel my way into tax? I don't mind going to school for another year, it just seems from all the posts on this board that the LLM may not be worth it. But if I want to do tax law, it seems necessary. Any thoughts?

195/196, take the offer and get your LLM part-time. In this economy, passing up the job offer may not be wise. Besides, why don't you like corporate law?

I have a jD/MBA from Hofstra and have no current Job prospects. I was just accepted for an LLM at BU in finance and banking law. Any suggestions of what I should do?

You guys are funny. Biglaw this, biglaw that!!!! You guys need to stop living for your resumes and the "honor" of being annointed by some firm to be their 80 hour a week, 2500 per year billable hour slave. Who cares where you went to school. I'm applying for a Georgetown Taxx llm because I love tax. I make good money, but I also have the time to spend it.

You guys are funny. Biglaw this, biglaw that!!!! You guys need to stop living for your resumes and the "honor" of being annointed by some firm to be their 80 hour a week, 2500 per year billable hour slave. Who cares where you went to school. I'm applying for a Georgetown Taxx llm because I love tax. I make good money, but I also have the time to spend it.

How about an FU from Harvard?

How about an FU from Harvard?

How about an FU from Harvard?

Biglaw does not recruit at Florida

Went to a top 25 J.D. school in midwest, worked in a decent firm doing real estate finance in Washington D.C.. Firm started tanking, I enrolled at GW LL.M. program for international law (then top 25, and with much better name recognition in the area). I figured the RE experience with the LL.M. would help me get a job doing project finance. I ended up liking the trade classes more...got two internships at government agencies that do trade, and with that was able to get a job at a third government agency doing international trade law. Its a good gig, and I certainly couldn't have gotten it without the LL.M. an internships.

Went to a top 25 J.D. school in midwest, worked in a decent firm doing real estate finance in Washington D.C.. Firm started tanking, I enrolled at GW LL.M. program for international law (then top 25, and with much better name recognition in the area). I figured the RE experience with the LL.M. would help me get a job doing project finance. I ended up liking the trade classes more...got two internships at government agencies that do trade, and with that was able to get a job at a third government agency doing international trade law. Its a good gig, and I certainly couldn't have gotten it without the LL.M. an internships.

Went to a top 25 J.D. school in midwest, worked in a decent firm doing real estate finance in Washington D.C.. Firm started tanking, I enrolled at GW LL.M. program for international law (then top 25, and with much better name recognition in the area). I figured the RE experience with the LL.M. would help me get a job doing project finance. I ended up liking the trade classes more...got two internships at government agencies that do trade, and with that was able to get a job at a third government agency doing international trade law. Its a good gig, and I certainly couldn't have gotten it without the LL.M. an internships.

I completed the tax LLM at Univ of Washington in Seattle. I am still unemployed 1 year after graduation. I believed that they provided job assistance, but this turned out to be a falsehood. Although they are not NYU or Georgetown, I was told that they placed over 96% of grads within 9 months. Also not true. My advice- if you want to become employed as a tax attorney, do not assume that the Univ of WA is going to help your career aspirations.

200

You are weird.
Why would you love something you are horrible at? People tend to enjoy things that they are good at.

I mean as a hobby it is totally understandable. But don't you think $40k is little too expensive for a hobby?

This is what I think of you:
1) As a kid you thought you would grow up to be someone special and important
2) During college you still thought that, although you were becoming aware of your realities.
3) You dreamed of becoming a hot shot lawyer.
4) You tanked the LSAT and went to a 2nd tier school
5) Even at your 2nd tier, you heard about successful alums and aspired to be like them.
6) But you just ended up not being good enough for BIGLAW.
7) You got dinged by few midlaw and decided to go for public interest or TTT midlaw.
8) You wanted to do tax because for some reason you think your brain functions that way very well (although it probably doesn't)
9) Applied to NYU LLM but got rejected.
10) Now dreams about being a hot shot lawyer through GULC LLM
11) Still Dreaming...Just a Little Kid!

209 - Your a douche. Stop putting down others to satisfy the needs of your inferiority complex.

1. You are probably a moron at a fourth tier school
2. You are at the bottom of your class
3. You can't hack it in law school, so you troll boards to put down other people's achievements to make you feel as though you have a bigger d*** than really do.
4. Who cares about big law? - people who aren't in big law.
5. I went to a "TTT" and I am in Big Law LLM from GULC - TAX - ooh! big deal.
6. You are a loser.
7. Reality is harsh.