Quinn Emanuel: john quinn’s state of the firm address
Some of you might think we have a strange obsession with Quinn Emanuel around here. That’s really not the case; it’s just that, for whatever reason, we have a lot of tipsters over there. It seems that QE associates love to talk about their firm, for good or ill.
Today, for good. From a source at the firm who is quite content:
John Quinn gave his annual State of the Firm address today and I think he really did a great job addressing the bonus fiasco. In a section of the address where he mentioned things the firm has to work on (which included an honest list of wide ranging topics), he mentioned that the partners have to do a better job of communicating the bonus system. After first noting that, historically, bonuses are awarded differently every year, he stated that the partners will provide a detailed list sometime in the middle of the year of what hours will be required, and what types of hours will apply in what amounts. He said that the amount of the bonus will stay open (of course), but the partners do believe this will help prevent future dissatisfaction. He also mentioned that the firm’s leadership did something “stupid” with the lateral hires by using the wrong denominator in calculating their special bonus. (You might not remember, but there were complaints that laterals were cheated out of an extra month of hours due to the discrepancy between QE’s fiscal year and the calendar year.) Quinn stated that they will recalculate hours and distribute special bonuses based on that recalculation.
More after the jump.
Our tipster continues:
Some of your readers will crow and say this is the result of public shaming on your site. I disagree. What was lost in the previous hysterics (on both sides of the fence) is that QE’s partnership is extremely accessible. Every year, in this same Address, Quinn answers questions posed by associates and partners. The only time he refuses to answer questions is when they would require a response that goes against the firm’s policy of promoting cooperation and teamwork among the offices. (A question like that was refused this year, and Quinn explained why he wouldn’t answer it.) Making about faces in policy and admitting screw ups is part of QE’s culture, and John Quinn’s response to the reaction from associates helps prove that.I think the reason you saw some real zealotry for QE’s defense in the comments to your previous bonus thread is that some here feel that people are too quick to read ill motives into the QE partnership’s decisions despite sometimes overwhelming evidence to the contrary. What really came through in Quinn’s speech is that he and the other partners, by and large, are very proud of this firm. They are proud of its quality, they are proud of its growth, and they are proud to be different. They are proud that they can attract top flight trial talent and, consequently, try to treat their associates well. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but I can say from personal experience that partner-associate relationships here work on a more personal level than at other top litigation shops.
What yesterday’s call and comments from partners indicate is that the firm is finally realizing they are no longer a small litigation boutique in downtown Los Angeles. One of the things QE has always prided itself on is its informality. You see it in their advertising, in their recruiting and in the way the firm is administered. But now, with more than 350 attorneys (per Quinn’s count yesterday), there are some informal approaches that must necessarily give. Bonuses seem to be one of them. By giving associates a goal, the firm can protect itself from being viewed as anti-associate and partner-greedy. This transparency is wonderful, but I think that it will also come at some cost. QE is not the type of place to reward dead wood. Some of your commenters noted that other big shops will pay the big bonus no matter how many hours one worked in the year. QE is not about that. It is about teamwork, about everyone pulling their own load. You saw some of that in the angry reactions by QE associates who think the partners treat us well. I am almost positive the partners will not set a low goal like 1800 hours simply because I do not think they want to incentivize associates towards mediocrity.
QE’s strength is its adaptability. Do they screw up? Absolutely. But what business ever gets everything right? Associates (and potential associates) should know that the partners prefer open and honest communication. This comes from the top down, and I know it for a fact because I speak directly with the partners when I have problems with the firm. So far, I have never been brushed off.
If you post this, I am sure many people will call me an apologist for the firm. I can’t prevent them from doing that, so I won’t even try. What I will say is that there needs to be more reasoned debate about this firm. There is a reason QE has grown so amazingly over the past several years, and that is because it is different. It has shaken things up in the legal world, both on the business and employment level. I won’t deny they are experiencing growing pains, but Quinn himself (it seems) is dedicated to making the transition to a large firm while retaining what makes QE different. If associates wish to help in this process, they need to take more than just pot shots at the partnership. On the flip side, we also cannot just accept missteps in the name of higher PPPs.
I’ll be honest, I like my job. And Quinn’s openness yesterday is one of the main reasons. Sorry for going on so long, but I hope this helps give some perspective on how QE handled what was obvious associate dissatisfaction.
We thank our tipster for these thoughts. We do strive to be fair and balanced here at ATL (up to a point; this not the New York Times or Wall Street Journal, and we reserve the right to inject our personal opinions into matters large and small). The foregoing nicely balances out some of the anti-QE sentiments that have been voiced in prior coverage.
Earlier: News that Quinn Emanuel Associates Are Sure To Love
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Comments
Agree with the email and its take on the speech.
Quinn also dropped hints of taking another look at a DC office in light of our growing ITC practice. London is a distant second, but also came up last year.
I declare shenanigans! There is no way this is an associate. Who takes the time to write an essay like this? Is there a billing code for ATL testimonials?
Working 1800 somehow means mediocre????
Wow, what has gone wrong in this profession that lawyers actually see it as a badge of honor to sacrifice more and more of their lives to work and that working less is somehow indicative of mediocre/poor performance.
I work hard to not work much over 1800 hours. Call me whatever you like, but you are the idiot that is still at the office at night. Enjoy your extra 20-30k, your soon to be ex-wife and kids who don't know your name will appreciate it.
You realize the rest of the world laughs at us for this type of mentality.
If it is acknowledged that what was done about bonuses was unfair, and they will do things differently in the future, why don't they fix it and correct the wrong that was done to side-swiped associates? It is not an irreversible mistake as partners comments seem to imply.
3:02 - Spot on.
3:04 - we love to confuse quality with quantity
Total BS, this is written by a partner. Moreover, the bonus information is to be disseminated by the end of this month not middle of this year.
Lat, this "content" source is a partner, to suggest otherwise is disingenuous.
so the partners don't want you to work 1800 because they don't want you to be "mediocre"? oh, how nice of them for looking out for the associates. yeah right. Meanwhile the partners are making $3mil a year, so even giving out special bonuses is chump change.
"What I will say is that there needs to be more reasoned debate about this firm."
No, there really doesn't. But if you really want that to happen, please start your own quinn emmanuel blog somewhere else in cyberspace.
3:04:
"Enjoy your extra 20-30k"??
Please share with us which firm you work at where, say, a 5th year works 1800 hrs and makes 200K instead of the market 230K. I think you meant: "Enjoy your extra 100K," right?
Sorry you're poor dude, but don't hate.
so the partners don't want you to work 1800 because they don't want you to be "mediocre"? oh, how nice of them for looking out for the associates. yeah right. Meanwhile the partners are making $3mil a year, so even giving out special bonuses is chump change.
3:14, I meant 20-30k extra in bonus, not salary. This was a post about salaries remember?
3:14, I meant 20-30k extra in bonus, not salary. This was a post about salaries remember?
And I'm making NYC $ in texas, if that is poor, then I'm ok with that.
3:14, I meant 20-30k extra in bonus, not salary. This was a post about bonuses, remember?
And I'm making NYC $ in texas, if that is poor, then I'm ok with that.
Well I guess I am mediocre, I can't work ATL... :(
Did he address the multiple accusations of sexual harassment by partners at the firm?
"After first noting that, historically, bonuses are awarded differently every year, he stated that the partners will provide a detailed list sometime in the middle of the year of what hours will be required, and what types of hours will apply in what amounts."
Why not provide this detailed list at the *beginning* of the year, when it's most useful to associates trying to gauge whether they're on track?? This is obviously better than waiting until the day bonuses are distributed, but could still result in a "gotcha."
Who gives a sh!t if it's a partner?
Does anyone who heard what quinn say disagree with the post (and this doesn't include the Sakdden flamers that lurk around in here)?
I listened to the whole thing, and to be honest, think the guy really addressed the problem, without getting caught up in the muck that got slung in the last round. Yes, the associates that didn't get the full bonus are still annoyed, but I have yet to hear one negative response to his address.
He couldn't get caught up in it because no one can directly address him during his State of the Firm. Its like George W. - prescreened questions, etc...
All the alleged "fighting" within the partnership and dischord with associates has already taken place. Associates were told to turn the other cheek. This all happened ahead of time. What else could he say about bonuses. But lets be clear: he did not mend any broken fences.
Uh, here's what's negative - the attitude that the quality of a lawyer is the amount of hours he bills.
I've never interacted with QE, but I have a friend who has. These are the people who stay up late to file last minute motions. That sounds exactly what I'm looking for in a law firm!
oh but their name partner never uses capital letters. that's so hip.
I think John Quinn must be a very charismatic person, because the substance of his words and his firm's policies do not merit such praise.
That, or this was written by a partner.
"These are the people who stay up late to file last minute motions. That sounds exactly what I'm looking for in a law firm!"
OH NOES! I never want to file motions! You sound like a moron.
3:21:
No you don't. hth.
So you meant something like, "Enjoy your extra 20-30K (in bonus) (_and_ you're extra 100K in salary)"?
Now you've demonstrated that the person who works 2000 hrs gets 130K more in total comp than the person working 1800. What is that, $500/hr. A pretty decent trade-off for most people (at least those who actually have the option of working at biglaw). hth.
"These are the people who stay up late to file last minute motions."
Say it ain't so! I've never heard of something so ridiculous.
WTF are you talking about 3:44? It seemed very clear to me (and, I'd imagine, everyone else except for you) that 3:21 was talking about a bonus differential. It is true that at most firms 1800 will get you the same exact base you get at Quinn; it just won't get you the same bonus. I don't know of any firm that requires at least 1800 for a salary that is $100k below market.
it might be unfortunately all too common, but I would prefer to work someplace that doesn't resort to underhanded discovery tactics. QE isn't one of them.
What is "underhanded" about filing a motion? You're not making any sense.
uh, not just filing a motion, but doing so at 11:59 (literally) before a deadline. That's what I meant by "last minute."
4:02 -- We filed it at 11:59 because we were too disorganized to get it done earlier. Anyone who works at Quinn knows this to be the case.
/\/\ary!
4:02 -- We filed it at 11:59 because we were too disorganized to get it done earlier. Anyone who works at Quinn knows this to be the case.
afraid for the future, 1800 hours billed is nothing. It's worse than pathetic. Billing even as high as 2000 doesn't require staying late into the night or working weekends.
3:54:
"at most firms 1800 will get you the same exact base you get at Quinn"
Please link to this firm. tyia.
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- Bruce Campbell in Army of Darkness.
My name? FUCK YOU, that's my name.
I made $970,000 last year. How much you make? You see pal, that's who I am, and you're nothing. Nice guy? I don't give a shit. Good father? Fuck you! Go home and play with your kids. You wanna work here - close! You think this is abuse? You think this is abuse, you cocksucker? You can't take this, how can you take the abuse you get on a sit? You don't like it, leave.
-Glenn Gary Glenn Ross
"Teamwork" = "everyone pulling their own load"? Isn't teamwork when everyone pulls the same load together?
Oh for crying out loud...what a ridiculous assessment of the speech. His "aw shucks" routine is getting way old. "Gee guys, we always make bonus decisions at the end of the year and they've been different every year. Every year we have complaints...."
This was a calculated business decision by a shrewd lawyer. My response: "Gee thanks John for giving us goals to achieve what amounts to a substantial percentage of our pay." What you should have done, like other firms that similarly miscalculated market pay, was correct yourself.
Quinn Emanuel's New York office is not in the top tier of firms when it comes to compensation. That's a fact. You can be as hip as you want and you can even get some associates to drink the kool-aid (see above), but you did not change that fact. But hey - you finally reached that elusive $3M/yr PPP mark! Congrats!
Quinn is a pressure packed, intense place to work. You make a lot and the firm has success but you pay for it.
You see this watch?
This watch cost more then your CAR!!
Any associate who has to work with Faith Gay should receive an additional $150k in combat pay.
I actually like QE, but the poster is a definite apologist.
1. Saying you majorly screwed over associates on bonuses but then keeping them screwed will not increase happiness. Talk of apologies is cheap.
2. Partner-associate relations are generally good. But this is a one-man dictatorship and everyone knows it. Unless you are talking directly to JQ, nothing at the firm will get changed.
3. Transparency? Associates get no information, none. Quinn makes all the decisions and they are announced like pronouncements from Heaven. There is no transparency.
I do like QE. The work is good. The partners are generally very good. The salaries are rarely beat. But to praise it the way your source did is absurd.
I actually like QE, but the poster is a definite apologist.
1. Saying you majorly screwed over associates on bonuses but then keeping them screwed will not increase happiness. Talk of apologies is cheap.
2. Partner-associate relations are generally good. But this is a one-man dictatorship and everyone knows it. Unless you are talking directly to JQ, nothing at the firm will get changed.
3. Transparency? Associates get no information, none. Quinn makes all the decisions and they are announced like pronouncements from Heaven. There is no transparency.
I do like QE. The work is good. The partners are generally very good. The salaries are rarely beat. But to praise it the way your source did is absurd.
anyone want to guess at initials in this round?
Is the $500K(non-equity) - $16MM range for partnership comp accurate or not?
As you were told in the last Quinn thread, there's no such thing as "non-equity" partnership at Quinn. So no it is not accurate, and please stop asking.
Also, 4:51: let's not start the initials thing again. That was messed up last time.
4:18, please see every single firm that pays on the $160k scale and won't immediately fire you if you have a slow (1800) year. There are lots of them. What the fuck are you talking about?
"non-equity partner" is an obvious oxymoron. my wife works at kirkland and it makes me wince every time i hear some 30 year-old mid-level associate referred to as a "partner." what exactly is the management/financial/or liability stake these people have in the partnership? oh yeah, none.
This was either not written by an associate or the lamest associate to walk the halls of QE.
all "new" partners at QE are on a guarantee, and not equity. that includes laterals and new promotions. get your facts straight 5:29.
03:40 PM - I love filing at 1159. anyone who doesn't woke up too early that morning.
04:24 PM I - I have no idea how "teamwork" is the same as "pulling your own load," but if you were here, you would understand.
04:24 PM II - how do NYC associates at QE make less than anyone apart from Wachtell?
05:42 PM - a guarantee does not sound the same as "nonequity partnership" to me. Is it the same?
Yes, it is a salary.
Interesting . . . thank you 5:42. anyone disagree? Maybe the partner who wrote this email cum above-the-law post ... or the associate who emailed it to Lat?
"Guarantee" is non-equity with a guarantee of equity after a fixed period of time. Many firms do this. You are paid a salary (like an associate or any other employee) in the meantime, and will never get into the equity if you leave during this time. Such arrangements do, however, differ from the *non*-guaranteed non-equity tracks present at such firms as K&E.
Wow. that does not sound like partnership.
I guess QE promises all its lawyers (partner or associate) an origination % for drumming up business, so there is some room for wetting one's beak here.
6:13 - (regarding 04:24 PM II) If you billed 2099 hours or less at Quinn last year, you got significantly less than every associate (in your class year) in good standing at Weil, Skadden, Cravath, Shearman, etc... I.e., the average pay at Quinn is less than many, many firms.
Parties on both sides filing within minutes of midnight on motions of all shapes and sizes is completely par for the course. Frankly, the few times a party does file something that isn't with the hour of a deadline is always a big surprise to me. I've been at two biglaw firms already, facing other biglaw firms as well as boutiques, the government, and plaintiffs firms of all shapes and sizes, and I've found this to be universally true. If you really think filing a motion at the deadline is somehow underhanded, and not the standard "We sent this to the partner two days ago for review and only at 11pm does he send us the redline" I regret to inform you that you're mistaken.
3:27, what multiple accusations of sexual harrassment? By NY or LA partners? Anyone else know about this?
Maybe it's because the firm truly is a great place to work, but the people who stick up for QE on this board sound kind of like Dwight Schrute to me.
Wow-- anyone that thinks a "gurantee" at quinn= non equity is a REAL jackass.
The gurantee is a MINIMUM GURANTEE. known at other firms as a minimum draw. So,if you're guranteed $10, and at the end of the year, your shares in he firm entitled youto more, there is a reconciliation. On the other hand, if they made less..
Other firms call this a "guranteed draw." It's just a mechanism to allow you to transition from a salray to a dispersal.
Jesus, are you guys that stupid? ALL new partners vote. ALL new partners get a share of the profits. ALL new partners share in the downside, if there ever is one. Just becuase they are guranteed a minimum does not mean they are non equity.
Sorry-- I just have to double post.
Do you guys see how this supid shit starts? One jackass who's jerking off in a stall to pictures of jessica simpson hears a partner talk about his new "gurantee," then uses the two lone cells in his brain (the rest were killed off by years of drinking on the quad) to fill in the blanks, that "gurantee" MUST mean non-equity, and then run like the whiny mis-informed shit heads they are to any public forum they can because, god forbid, they ever just ASK someone at the firm.
Just goes to show you-- even at quinn, some of the botom-scrapers somehow manage to get idiot filter. No matter though.. they'll soon quit and find meaningful employment at Skadden.
4:39 that was harsh. who would you rather work for?
and before a law review wannabe points out the multiple errors in my previous post, go wank yourself.
I've worked with faith. If you know what you're doing, she's very fair. If you're dead wood, she'll let you know, without stabbing you in the back. Guess what, 4:39..
partners on "guarantee" are non-equity. plus, there's no "share" that entitles you to more, it's all decided at the top. just ASK quinn. or read the american lawyer's ppp for last year.
repeating it doesn't make it so 8:39. dirt simple. you should b eable to grasp it. Partners get a gurantee + reconciliation. That's equity.
The reconciliation for junior partners is small, but it's still there. No matter how many times you say "non-equity," it's still equity.
Dear Quinn:
Your 15 minutes are almost up. The only reason you get any press on here at all is because you screwed over your associates and they're pissed enough to come out en masse to bash you.
I love the Quinn guy acting like Skadden gets their rejects. Get a clue. You're 43rd on the Vault prestige list. And you arguably aren't even on the list of the 10 best California firms. Forget acting like you're a New York player. The "we're exclusive" schtick is cute, though. Your recruiting results and reputation among other lawyers belie your bravado.
14:57
14:58
14:59
10:32: oh, come on skadden associate. You're just mad 'cause your firm's thunder is being taken by so many other shops these days. Get over it.
and if you took the time to look past your nose, you'd see that Quinn is on here for a lot more.
yeah, yeah. you must have missed the announcement. even the amlawyer lists QE as a 2 tier partnership. have you been sleeping under your desk?
I'm kinda crushing on the poster at 8:39, 8:43, and 8:46....
"You're 43rd on the Vault prestige list."
So? We're on Vault's Top 10 litigation practices list. Do you really think we care how we rank in broader mindshare? People who need litigators know what we're about.
"even the amlawyer lists QE as a 2 tier partnership."
Of course it is a 2 tier partnership- John Quinn in one tier, and everyone else in the other.
uhh, and there's that little thing about making over $3mil ppp.
OH yeah.. we can chalk that up to ficticious non-e partners and office supply ghestapo. RIIIIIGGGGHHHHTT.
guarantee + bonus = salary + bonus = non-equity.
Bottom line: You want litigators and trial lawyers that win, go to quinn.
You want a firm that is considered "prestigious" byother firms, well, check out the vault and amlaw. We'll have no problem representing your adversary.
It would be very interesting if other firms started advertising their win ratios.
Anyone have an answer?
11:38 left side of the equation isn't quite accurate. should read:
minimum gurantee + reconciliation tied to profits +right to vote = equity.
Sorry.. Are you a law student? Really. You should learn this stuff before leaving.
Last time I checked nonequity partners could not vote. that is one of the primary defining characteristice (aside from not sharing in profits... which, all quinn partners share in)
All partners at quinn vote. So, this non-e talk is really silly.
newassoc should ask for the quinn memo on e and non-e. then post back here apologizing.
No, I'd rather not look like a jackass in front of jq. Although I note you didn't dispute anything I said-- it's very well known that ALL partners at quinn.. even newly minted ones.. ship out to LA and vote. so, if you want to be a dumbass and ask jq for a statement that we have non-equity partners, go ahead. Although, since you're not even an associate at the firm, I'm sure that would be... difficult.
10:32 -- you pompous loser, how many years has Skadden been around? A bit more than TWENTY-ONE, no? Also pretty good for a firm that has no corporate attorneys.
Hahahahahaha . . . I'm very happy to be here. Top flight firm.
old age < quality.
actually, you are right. you're doing pretty good for a firm that doesn't actually win that many trials... want to compare win ratios? I'm sure ours is bigger than yours :-)
11:56: I'm a second year in LA preparing for an oral argument tomorrow. What are you doing up so late? Doc review?
Yup. Sure glad you chose Skadden!
11:59 -- old age < quality??? old age is less than quality?? do you mean old age does not equal quality? please be more precise with your language.
-- john b. quinn
12:04: It's commmon usage, although in 11:59's context, vernacular. When used in that context, it usually means that the LHS of the qualifier is inferior, when compared to the RHS of the qualifier. So, in the above example, I believe the author was saying:
I'd rather be young and good than old and mediocre.
You may sincerely believe that it is "very well known that ALL partners at quinn.. even newly minted ones.. ship out to LA and vote" and good for you. Keep drinking that koolaid. Clearly you're not attending any partnership meetings, now, or any time soon.
12:09 -- thanks for the straight-faced explanation -- really amplified my joke. Remind me not to invite you to any parties.
ok-- so, let me know when you have that memo!!
Frek'n Skadden guys.. did someone forget to lock the door again?
12:24: and who said Quinn associates don't have a sence of humor? :-)
Looks like I struck a nerve. The Quinn egos are coming out from under their rocks. Hit 'em where it hurts. "We're a selective, prestigious firm. In our own minds."
As far as win percentage, hasn't it gone down since the last time I saw your ad in the Burbank airport? Oddly worded. "Our partners have won X%." Is that while they have been at QE, or does that include cases won when they worked for the govt? More bait and switch? If you can't win 100% of your self-selected cases working for the govt, you probably shouldn't be a lawyer at all.
As for $3 million PPP, you should consider sharing a few grand with the people who helped you get there. Not pay them like you pay your staff.
And no one believes that you have a single associate backing you up. So you spare yourself the effort of typing "QE associate" or "QE midlevel."
I don't work at Skadden and wouldn't want to, but QE trying to make fun of Skadden? Not sure if it's more laughable or pathetic. Skadden doesn't know you exist.
*SENSE* not *SENCE*
crap.. ATL nees a spell checker.
12:29 believe it or not, most of the associates believe the substance, if the the exuberance, of msot of the previous posts from quinn associates.
It's a graet place to work. We get paid market (oh boy, here we go), and the people are really great. I have a feeling that most of the "quinn" associates posting on here are, to be frank, not, or might have a bit too much time on their hands (give me a call. I'm going to trial next week, buried and could use some help).
Isn't the whole point of this board to provide a bit of transparency, and congeial sharing of information? C'mon guys-- quinn or otherwise... can't we all just get along?
@1236
"believe it or not, most of the associates believe the substance, if the the exuberance, of msot of the previous posts from quinn associates"
Not the ones I know.
"Isn't the whole point of this board to provide a bit of transparency, and congeial sharing of information?"
No, you obviously don't understand the difference between a board and a blawg. Partner telltale.
12:45: 12:36 couldn't be a partner.. poster wouldn't be calling for transparency.
And btw-- JQ is a close friend of mine. He confirmed that there are no non equity parners at quinn.
the one time i went against QE, I was a 2nd year taking deps across from a partner.
QEers, you're not that special. Except for the fact that you don't get special bonuses. That is special.
I jacked off in JQ's bathroom. Afterwards he told me that there are no non equity partners at Quinn.
I haven't seen Quinn on any big deals, and they're almost non-existent in the league tables. Definitely not a player.
"I haven't seen Quinn on any big deals, and they're almost non-existent in the league tables. Definitely not a player."
Yeah, I know. I've been trying to get some deal work here for weeks, and they keep telling me anyday now. Sheesh-- I'm almost starting to believe that we're a lit-only firm.