The Presidential Race Loses Two More Lawyers
Official announcements haven't been made yet, but they're imminent. Two prominent attorneys are about to drop out of the presidential race: former U.S. Attorney and Associate Attorney General Rudy Giuliani, and super-successful trial lawyer John Edwards.
Random factoid: Giuliani and Edwards both attended top law schools, NYU and UNC - Chapel Hill, respectively. These schools are respectively ranked #4 and #36 by U.S. News. [FN1]
But the remaining candidates who happen to be lawyers went to Harvard (Barack Obama and Mitt Romney) and Yale (Hillary Clinton). These two schools, national institutions for many years, are ranked #2 and #1, respectively.
Loyola 2L claims to be "retired" from the blogosphere. But if here were still around, he might wonder aloud: Are American voters "tier-ist"?
P.S. And who cares about these stupid rankings anyway? A number of top law schools may be overrated.
[FN1] And the law school rankings didn't exist back when Edwards and Giuliani attended.
Update: First, it appears that some of you have misread this post. We doubt that many voters know or care about where a candidate went to law school. We just (1) pointed out a "random factoid," and (2) suggested that people who are obsessed with law school rankings, like Loyola 2L, might try to read something into this.
Second, from an observant tipster:
"It might be worth noting that according to the exit polls the most influential lawyer yesterday was none of the ones you mentioned.""Rather it was T3 graduate Gov. Charlie Crist (Cumberland Law), whose endorsement seemed to boost McCain past Romney while at the same time destroying any hope Rudy had since Rudy had been courting Crist for weeks."
McCain Wins; Giuliani Set to Drop Out [New York Times]
John Edwards to Quit Presidential Race [AP]
The Most Overrated Law Schools: A Student Perspective [TaxProf Blog]
Which top school do law students think is most overrated in US News? [Brian Leiter's Law School Reports]
Earlier: One Fewer Lawyer in the Presidential Race
(41) Comments
hi
Do most American voters give a shit about law school rankings? Only a tool would think about this crap.
Oh, please, Lat. Many political junkies don't even remember where these folks went to law school, never mind voters.
Hillary = EPIC BAR EXAM FAIL
since when is #36 a top law school?????
Billary is shaking in her boots. Or is that just from the weight of her enormous cankles?
Graduating NYU Law in 1968 is like graduating from Cooley 40 years later.
news on Milbank layoffs please. how many?
why would they lay-off in litigation - i thought structured finance and real estate is the area to NOT be in at the moment
The comments on this website regarding the so-called prestige of law schools is really stupid. On one previous post, a commenter wrote that there are essentially only 8 or so law schools in the top 3 tiers, while all other schools "equal Starbucks" or something to that effect. While he was certainly on the extreme, many other comments on this blog exemplify the arrogrance of many individuals. We can argue all day long about whether UNC is a "top law school," but what the hell does "top law school" mean. (By the way, I did not go to UNC). UNC, just like many other law schools considered to be more prestigous, and less prestigous, produce outstanding lawyers. While Harvard and Yale may produce more SCOTUS clerks than UNC, in the end, there is still plenty of room in the legal profession for the lawyers that these so-called "TTT" schools produce. Just ask John Edwards; he has been more successful, has more money, and has a larger home than many of the lawyers who post on this blog.
"Just ask John Edwards; he has been more successful, has more money, and has a larger home than many of the lawyers who post on this blog."
John Edwards = TTL (Two time loser)
10:16 - Couldn't agree more.
As many know, the whole ranking system is out-of-whack with reality. When factors such as "% job placement at graduation," which is a completely artificial number that can be manipulated by institutions' career placement offices, remain part of the calculation, then the rankings lose all credibility.
The only ones I pay attention to are "peer institution evaluation" and "judges and lawyer evaluation," since those are the people who are going to be determining whether you get a job or not.
Hey 10:05, regarding your thoughts on what areas "to NOT be in at the moment," consider the following posting (from yesterday's thread on TPW lay-offs) by "RE Associate: 200 Hours Billed in Jan":
Something is seriously wrong with the leadership at these firms (TPW, CWT, ML). In the age of ATL, this period of greed (i.e. partners not wanting PPP's to take a $50-100k hit) shall not be forgotten.
Something is also wrong with many of the partners, insofar as they have allowed the work to dry up. Finance and real estate assoicates were working like crazy up until August, and ever since have been doing next to nothing (yet even at firms with major "slow-downs," most came close to 2000 for 07')?
Ever since the fall, I've been working just as much, if not more: the same partners who generated "positive" work (i.e. deals blazing forward) up until the credit crisis have shifted gears and have generated plenty of "negative" work (i.e. work outs and distressed deals).
Plus, with all the hype about looming bankruptcy activity and certain litigation upticks, well managed firms should be able to keep finance and real estate associates plenty busy in collateral/support capacities (beyond mere doc review - though I'd wager plenty of TPW or CWT associates would gladly do so).
Becoming President doesn't make you a winner...ask Bush and his sub-25% approval rating.
10:21, so he has twice lost the bid to be the Dem nominee. Wow, his life must be an absolute failure, he must be a loser, right? When are you running for President 10:21? What state did you or do you represent in the United States Senate? I didn't realize that losing a bid to be the Dem nominee is the measure of success. I wasn't referring to his success in the primaries. I was referring to the successes throughout his life. I'm sure that you went to a fabulous law school that is ranked higher in the US News and World Report than UNC, but don't feel bad that you will never been as successful a trial lawyer as John Edwards was, nor will you be a US Senator.
10:16/10:25: You're a terrible writer.
Sorry 10:30. I didn't realize I am writing a law review article.
"I have decided to exit the race so that I can spend less time exploiting my family's suffering and more time being with them."
I second 10:30's statement. 10:16/24, your argument is valid, but I cannot think of a worse way to frame it. The result is a complete loss of credibility, in addition to distracting the thoughts of your audience.
ATL...implying that the candidates remaining are there b/c the voters really wanted someone who went to a top 5 law school is just ludicrous.
That would require voters to know (1) where these individuals went to school and (2) where these schools are ranked. When most voters don't even know that Barack's last name isn't "Osama," that's giving voters a little too much credit, don't you think?
Too bad Gallion isn't here to fellate Edwards.
I have pursued and caught many ambulances during my life, so that I might redistribute the wealth of this country while taking my 30% of said redistributed wealth.
During my service as a United States Senator, I have continued to pursue the ambulances of poverty, war, and suffering, so that I might redistribute the wealth of this country without taking a 30% cut.
Yet these past eight years, the greatest ambulance of all has eluded me--the presidency. Air Force One, the greatest ambulance of all that would fly me from sea to shining sea, flying over Both Americas.
But do not feel sorry for me. Do not feel sorry for my dead son or my wife's cancer. Do not feel sorry for the doctor I have bankrupted with junk science. Do not feel sorry for me that my greatest pursuit of all must last at least another four years.
If there are still Two Americas in 2012, then I will be back. I will ride my white horse of righteousness, my $250-coiffed locks flowing in the wind as my steed outruns the ambulances of my competing candidates to arrive at the White House and render redistributive justice to all.
God Bless America.
you rang?
10:49, nicely done, thank you.
10:49: I think the haircut ambulance cost $400, not $250.
Well done 10:49, very well done indeed.
Edwards may well be back in 2012, but not necessarily on the Two Americas theme. Depending on how the next few years go, he may decide that its better to go back to being a moderate southern Democrat, or maybe even a Republican. Or maybe he will go even further in the other direction and become a Socialist.
'
10:49 is post of the year.
Prestige is important.
Twenty-eight tires!
Twenty-eight tiers? or tires?
Hey guys, you forgot all about me! Um, don't you remember 9/11?? The question that will haunt me for the rest of my life is how come a one-track pony like me didn't win the Presidency, especially since a one-track pony like Dubya got to serve two terms?
It's one-trick pony.
Trick.
As mayor of New York, I am aware that we have many enemies. These enemies hate us and want nothing less than our total destruction. They will bomb our cities, poison our water, slow down our subways, and defeat our baseball teams.
I moved the prostitutes out of Times Square in the 90s, and I handled the most significant attack on U.S. soil since Pearl Harbor.
You silly evangelicals care too much about my centrist social views. The terrorists are coming with planes and backpacks and bombs, not divorces, gay marriages and abortions. Our enemies are bin Laden, Jong-Il and al-Qaeda, not Elizabeth Taylor, Richard Simmons and Planned Parenthood. The country has changed because of a deadly collision between planes and towers, not between man genitalia and man ass.
If you stupid primary voters can't get that through your thick skulls, then I don't want to be your candidate anyway. I'll just go back to making boatloads of money, and you can all come crying to me when Barack Obama tells you to fight homemade napalm with audacious hope.
God Bless America.
Look you imbecile, you think I don't know that? I guided this country out of 9/11! Wait, next you'll start telling me that I should've campaigned in more states. Idiot.
Lat,
You devoted more writing in your original post to your "random factoid" than to the fact that two candidates dropped out, yet you claim the commenters misread your post?
How about writing about what you want to comment on instead of blaming posters for commenting on the issue you wrote more about.
It's a sad day when commentors on a blog for lawyers and law students adopt the tired "ambulance chaser" rhetoric.
What's next? I know -- let's criticize the defense bar for representing criminals.
11:53, hilarious. "Fight homemade napalm with audacious hope." Awesome.
Or BigLaw associates for getting paid obscene amounts of money...
12:54, this board is for Biglaw lawyers. Not for ambulance-chasing, plaintiff's attorneys from TTT law schools.
Why has no one called Lat out on labelling the Mittster as an attorney? He never took any bar, and never practiced. Just because I have a history degree from undergrad doesn't make me a historian.
However, Mitt did make history in Massachusetts by becoming the first gubernatorial candidate anywhere in the country to do a campaign ad topless. No joke.
Kerry almost won the election last time, and he went to a pretty bad law school.
Thanks for the info, 2:03. I'll rephrase my original comment:
It's a sad day when commentors on a blog for [Biglaw] lawyers and law students [interested in Biglaw] adopt the tired "ambulance chaser" rhetoric.
What's next? I know -- let's criticize the defense bar for representing criminals.
Guys at my high school used to adopt ambulance chaser rhetoric all the time. It was no big deal.