Is this any different from any other law firm. Having worked at several, I have never know what the vacation policy was because I always a)worked during the vacation some, and b) had to make billable hours anyways.

Is this same as unlimited sick time - i.e., no sick time at all.

Sounds like a fancy way of saying that you're expected to work (and be in touch with the office) while on vacation.

It's unclear to me whether there's a payout if you leave the firm. Outside of CA, do you only get a payout for the year in which you've accrued the vacation days?

I worked at a firm that had this same type of policy. At first glance, it seems like a perk. However, it sucks if you ever decide to go someplace else because you don't get paid for your accrued vacation time.

I work for a gov't agency now and love it because you can actually use the vacation time you accrue.

This is BS. Any firm where the billable hour counts knows that associates will never take anytime off. Like they said, I'm sure not one of those associates has ever taken their "4 weeks" of vacation off (except maybe before they decided to quit)

Here's the catch -- employers implement thes kind of changes so that they don't have to pay "accrued and unused vacation" when people leave.

To 9:54,

Yes, that reads that you won't get paid out when you leave the firm except if you work in a California office.

In reality, unless something else comes out, this is a worse deal for associates.

Hey Lat,
How about a thread on MBAs--bonuses, tenure credit, etc

Ugh. That is a terrible policy. I know lots of firms have it, but it sucks.

My firm has this policy and I love it. You can sum it up to: just get your work done and bill your hours.

Anyone else find these threads interminably dull?

My posts are the best.

Paid out accrued leave? Most states are use it or lose it. What states require employers to pay out unused leave? (My only guess would be employee-friendly California).

All and all, I think that most firms are moving away from a fixed vacation time period because a small number of associates tend to view this as a right to take off 4 weeks a year.

Taking more than 2 weeks of vacation a year (plus maybe a few days for personal errands) often puts a huge burden on your fellow associates.

This policy also has the effect of allowing partners to take more than 4 weeks of vacation a year. There was a partner at a BIGLAW firm (Atlanta-based, Charlotte office) where I used to work who would take personal vacation at least 6+ weeks a year and growl at his overworked associate who would ask for a mere week or two a year. Strangely enough, this "partner" magically billed almost 2,700 a year. Thank goodness I didn't work for that jerk!

Baker & McKenzie has an unlimited vacation policy.

You bill your hours and no one cares how many days you show up. So you don't get to accrue any time....who cares. You can come and go as you please.

can we get a thread of biglaw (v50, v100, whatever) firms that don't provide baseline benefits? Whether its no car service, no seamless web, no blackberry. Extra long maternity leave is great but there are firms out there not even providing "perks" that only make it easier to work the long hours that keep PPP high.

PHJW switched to this a couple of years ago. It was basically a way to avoid paying out accrued vacation time when associates left. They were tougher about it, too. If you wanted vacation you needed partner approval and had to be on pace to meet target hours for the year.

I must have taken like 5 or 6 weeks of vacation last year at PHJW and still made my hours. No one seemed to have a problem with it.

It does suck that we don't get paid out when we leave though.

Are there really firms that don't have Seamless? That seems to be very off market.

People who don't see "unlimited vacation" as "unlimited bullshit" are drinking some serious Kool-Aid.

Following with 10:37... spreadsheet would be nice.

Many states require employers to pay out accrued but unused vacation, including Illinois, where Seyfarth is located.

Even with use it or lose it policies, you "lose it" only after a period of time. So maybe at the end of the year, you go back to 0, but if you quit any time during the year, you can get the 1-4 weeks that you have accrued.

SEAMLESS TIP

anyone in midtown should order crab soup dumplings from joe's shanghai.

one order is enough for the ladies and two for the big boys.

What this means that when you leave the firm, you don't get a check for unused vacation. This is a dirty cheap trick, unless you actually use five weeks of vacation a year.

This isn't a PERK. It's a slick way for the firm to save TONS of money by not having to pay out accrued vacation upon separation from employment. With the prior policy if an associate was accrued four weeks of vacation a year and never used it then they could conceivably accrued eight weeks after two years. When they left employment, the firm would have to pay them eight weeks worth of salary which works out to a decent chunk of change. Now they don't accrue anything and the firm is off the hook.

It is a perk. When we accrued vacation, I would bill .1 or .25 everyday on "vacation" so I wouldn't have to use my vacation days and could save them up as a severance package. Now that we have unlimited/no vacation days, I take off a lot more time and when I'm on vacation I don't feel bad about not checking my BB or responding to e-mail.

Now that we have unlimited/no vacation days, I take off a lot more time and when I'm on vacation I don't feel bad about not checking my BB or responding to e-mail.

WOW man you're edgy- I want to party with you.. You sound like a blast.

This probably also means no adding on unused vacation time to the end of paid maternity leave. . . .

As expected -- Seyfarth Shaw just announced to its chicago associates that they are increasing salaries for years 3 and up -- finally going to pay "market" for mid-upper classes. Sorry first and second years, looks like unless you are in NY you are stuck at 145k. Hopefully someone will have a memo soon.

5:37--what's the new scale?

so what is the California policy? if i'm at a firm with a CA office and unlimited vacation, what kind of vacation payout would i get when i leave?

6:17- probably nothing. California law only requires that employers pay you for accrued but unused vacation. It doesn't require employers to allow you to accrue vacation though.

WOW MAN = Law student in for a rude awakening.

5:37,

Funny, it wasn't announced to me. What are you talking about?

10:08 - There already was a thread (maybe multiple threads) on MBAs. Go look for it in the archives (or post specific questions at Infirmation or xoxo).