the color list is as follows (in my always humble opinion):

1. redline
2. blacklist
3. blueballs

first to say first. YEAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!

Worst poll ever.

Track Changes.

I think "redlining" comes from the fact that the strike-throughs were red when viewed on the computer screen that were created using the compare features in Word and the old Wordperfect. Use of those products by lawyers is de facto malpractice because of the metadata they leave behind. Most lawyers use Deltaview (or similar products) that show strike throughs and insertions in black. Thus, it's correctly referred to as "blacklining."

I've never heard blackline. I assume redline comes from the fact that Word does it in red so that it stands out (at least does the first person's edits in red).

I've never heard blackline. I assume redline comes from the fact that Word does it in red so that it stands out (at least does the first person's edits in red).

The origin of these terms DEFINITELY predates word-processing software like MS Word.

Perhaps people use both redline and blackline as appropriate descriptions of document comparisons depending on their firm's comparison program and common usage?

I thought redline was "tracked changes" with specific editors identified, while blackline was just a comparison of two versions of a document, without stating who made the changes.

I'm originally from Australia, and there it's called "markup".

Here's my take:

A redline is a Word document showing the track changes, which you can accept, reject, etc. using Word.

A blackline is a comparison document created by an external program, like Deltaview. You can't accept or reject changes in a blackline; all you can do is look at it and go back to the modified document (i.e. the one that you selected as "modified document" when you created the blackline). (Also, if you graduated from law school prior to 1996 or so you will probably hand-mark a bunch of shit on the document and then send it to an associate who will send it to a secretary who will send it to word processing, just because you are too lazy to use computers.

It totally sucks when you send out a blackline in a .doc version, instead of turning it into a PDF, and some moron sends you back a reply like "There is something wrong with your document, I can't accept or reject the track changes, so I just put all my comments in the document," amirite?

Also, they are not "Redwells," they are "Redwelds."

Deltaview refers to it as a redline on my computer, but attorneys in my office have always asked me to run blacklines. I was confused the first time this happened but was told that it used to be called a blackline because color printing was not available so it always printed in black.

I heard that the term "redline" originated with the practice of having staff literally compare two versions of a document and mark changes in red pen for the attorneys to review (the same staff, apparently, who picked up the other end of the dictaphone line to take dictation). Can anyone confirm this actually used to be common practice?

who gives a fuck?

Marked copy.

I think it has less to do with the 'strikethrough' line through the words and more to do with the line that Word / Deltaview puts on the side of the page in places where a change has been made.

this is why i hate my job.

There's a GC here who is a zillion years old and literally redlines documents with a red pen. I'm sure it was a struggle to get him to switch from fountain to ballpoint.

I worked for an engineering firm prior to beginning law school. We'd take the architect's plans and add HVAC and electrical schematics. When we'd implement a revision, we'd literally take a red pen to the drawing. We called this "redlining."

As this concept relates to the practice of law, I agree with the posters from 11:16 (both of them). The attorney making the changes used a red pen to make changes much more noticeable long before computers were used.

I think referring to the practice as "blackline" is like pronouncing "sherbet" as SHER-BERT. Totally fucking lame.

this really confused me as a summer associate. firms, please decide on ONE term and go with it.

11:15 - a "markup" is when I scribble my changes in the margin and send it to a junior corporate associate to input.

I had a partner tell me that "blackline" is the more current way to refer to a "redline". Where I work, both refer to a comparison of documents -- we don't use track changes here at all.

11:06(2) and 11:19 - amen brothers

11:23(2): it's "sorbet" you philistine

Chicago Manual of Style uses redline. 'Nuff said.

Wow, Lat, you are a blogging genius! How the hell do you think this shit up?

11:33-
Two different things you wannabe. Sort of like "knowing what you're talking about" and "thinking you do."

I use both. Who cares?

11:08, holy shit! If you're at a firm that doesn't have software to remove metadata, then "TTT" might actually be a generous description for you.

I call it DeltaView Compare Wordfile. When I email it, I call it DeltaView Compare Wordfile Distribution.

Cheers,

I use both, interchangeably. This is the stupidest poll ever.

You might just ask whether we call it
- soda
- pop
- a drink
- Coke (no matter the brand).

Seriously.

Redlining is an ancient art. When I began as an associate in 1979, my first assignment was to go to a corporate paralegal and learn how to redline changes on documents back from the financial printer or the typing pool using a red pen and a ruler. We used red ink because black ink changes could be missed, especially the careting used to show certain insertions and omissions.

I still do it two or three times a year against docs that we don't receive electronically and that won't OCR well.

I heard that it used to be called, in the days when people used pen and ink, redline/blackilne, to denote the different colors that a comparison was put in. Red strikethroughs for what was deleted, and black underlines for what was added. Therefore, both "blackline" and "redline" are inferior and unacceptable. For now on: "redline/blackline" if you want to sound classy, old timey, and wise.

back to the semicolon debate:

do you always have to put a semicolon before a "provided, however?"

like, "parties will use best efforts; provided, however, that x won't do y."

Redlining is an ancient art. When I began as an associate in 1979, my first assignment was to go to a corporate paralegal and learn how to redline changes on documents back from the financial printer or the typing pool using a red pen and a ruler. We used red ink because black ink changes could be missed, especially the careting used to show certain insertions and omissions.

I still do it two or three times a year against docs that we don't receive electronically and that won't OCR well.

Redlining is an ancient art. When I began as an associate in 1979, my first assignment was to go to a corporate paralegal and learn how to redline changes on documents back from the financial printer or the typing pool using a red pen and a ruler. We used red ink because black ink changes could be missed, especially the careting used to show certain insertions and omissions.

I still do it two or three times a year against docs that we don't receive electronically and that won't OCR well.

The terms "redline" and "blackline" predate the Deltaview and other applications used now.

In the distant past, a "blackline" referred to a document comparison where new language was underlined with a single black line, and deleted language represented only by means of a small upside-down triangle. This was because blacklines mostly were prepared by hand, and it therefore was not possible to show the old language unless it was written in the margin. Most lawyers who started practicing before the mid-90s will have vivid memories of preparing blacklines by hand this way.

Although there might have been an earlier version of hand-generated redlines where deleted text was written in the margin, by the time I started practicing law (mid-90s), redlines were produced with a computer application that provided for new language to be marked with a single black line under the text and deleted language also to appear in the text, but marked out with a single red line through the middle.

Before the conveniences we take for granted today (like email), partners would ask for associates to prepare redlines or blacklines of documents, depending on factors like how significant the changes were, the audience, whether the document was on the law firm's system etc. Since no-one would dream of asking for an associate or paralegal to prepare a blackline by hand now, and new comparison functions use new conventions and have different names, the terms redline and blackline have become interchangeable.

11:33 - Sorbet is not sherbert. Sherbert contains milk fat while sorbert does not.

11:33 - Sorbet is not sherbert. Sherbert contains milk fat while sorbert does not.

It is a "comparison" or a "comparison view." A respectable email will explain what is being compared.

I just say "clean and marked." BTW, anyone who uses track changes should be shot-just create a new version and run Deltaview to create a blackline. I've heard older folks call it "Compare-rite" or some such term which I assume was a predecessor program to Deltaview. This is a stupid discussion for a slow Friday.

Better is when you're emailed a PDF of handwritten changes, you put them all into a document, and send a revised copy only to have the counterparty come back and ask, "Can I get a blackline copy?"

When I worked at Cravath, they gave us a specific handbook on how to mark documents. The copy was ancient, and it referred to the blackline department. (BTW, I rock at the Printer because after years of that, my markups are impeccable.)

Yes, back in the day (shoot yourself now just reading this), there were people who sat in a room and did manual blacklining ALL DAY LONG, as the poster at 12:06 mentioned. This is the origin of the term blackline.

"legal blacklines" show changes to documents prepared by attorneys. "Redlines" show changes to documents prepared by non-attorney professionals, such as accountants. Therefore I prefer to use "blackline", so as to always be as elitist as possible.

i just call them "documents in track-changes format."

track changes

I've never heard of "blackline." It sounds stupid. "Redline" makes a lot more sense -- most typeface is in black, so if you make changes in black they'll be harder to distinguish from the original language. But if you make them in red it draws your attention to the changes, which is a far more efficient means of editing and revising. This is also why teachers grade papers and exams in red ink. Who the fuck came up with "blackline"?

blackline predates redline by a ginormous number of years you ignorant twatwaffle.

"I rock at the Printer because after years of that, my markups are impeccable"

Greatest post in the history of ATL. It represents, on both a micro and macro level, the entirety of the business of practicing corporate law.

12:16, this is done to demonstrate that whatever monkey fucking scribe putting changes in to the document did not fuck it up.

1:05 - You missed the point. The lazy counterparty can run the two versions on Deltaview himself (or get an associate to do it).

12:06-- "no one would dream of asking a layer to prepare a blackkline by hand now."
I worked for a partner (a few years ago) who did not trust computers. He had all new versions sent by opposing counsel hand blacklined. He never hesitated to make us do this. It sounds crazy, but very rarely we did find changes that had not been identified in the computer generated blackline.

"Track changes" is a specific format in MS word that allows you to accept and reject insertions from multiple authors. A blackline/redline is not editable like that.

Blackline/redline at my firm are used interchangably. I prefer blackline, but deltaview titles its documents redline.doc.

I weep for 1:21's clients. Why not just use Deltaview on clean versions? No one is saying that you should trust the opposing party's blackline, but you should be able to trust your own software. If not, you need new software. Or maybe your clients need a real law firm. No offense, but if I found out that my outside counsel were comparing documents by hand I would fire them.

Hey, 1:03,

If you have every been at the Printer for a day or two straight, and the bankers, auditors, outside counsel, GC and underwriter's counsel are all trying to get their views reflected in an OM, or someone screws up the master, you better bet that you'll be glad that SOMEONE can mark up the document such that all parties' comments are incorporated properly and the page only has to be turned once. Bowne and Merrill charge some nonsensical fee like $75 every time you enter a page for changes, so, believe it or not, good markups ARE important. But, you're too busy and important to have worked in a situation like that.

Neatness counts. It saves clients money. It matters.

Redline if it's in color.

Blackline if not.

Track changes sux.

Redline = track changes

Blackline = Deltaview

Job tip: Make sure you know what the partner/client wants because it can be a huge F-up to send track changes to a counterparty if you did not enter them carefully and avoid anything that could be inside info intended only for your side of the deal. When in doubt, use Deltaview and send a clean and editable original with the Deltaview.

I think "comparison" or "comparison version" is the best. "Mark-up" isn't bad either. These all tell you what you're getting. "Tracked changes" in word should only be called that, and otherwise it's probably best to use a comparison program.

Of the colored-line versions, redline wins because some changes are by default red, while none are by default black - at least by the defaults used at my firm. Although I suppose if you're not printing in color the red lines become black lines.

I believe the instructions for the proofers before redline/blackline programs was "word-for-word comparison", and you could choose either the original or the revised document as the "mark" copy.

The term "redline" was popularized by CompareRite (the program was the gold standard until it was retired by Lexis Nexis five or so years ago). Anybody who practiced law before 2000 remembers the text: "This redlined draft, generated by CompareRite (TM) - The Instant Redliner, shows the differences between original document ...." It was at the bottom of every blackline.

OTOH Microsoft Word uses the term "Legal Blackline". Not sure why.

my lord lawyers gey

plz pass the shorbert.

As someone who sat around many conference tables with a black felt tip pen, a wooden ruler and three, four or five prior drafts in front of me to determine the changes from multiple drafts ago to the then-current version, it's always been "blackline".

Perhaps some people made their original "blackline" in red and the photocopies were then blacklines, but I never saw any in red. I've only seen black and always called them blacklines. At any rate, the term was around LONG before computer blacklining programs.

While we're on our walk down memor lane, anyone remember Barrister? That was a heck of a lot more useful for lawyers than Word or WordPerfect, because it numbered every line in your draft and made taking comments from multiple parties on your 8 hour conference calls much easier.