FIRST!

Tremendous stress + depression + firearms = bad idea.

SEN, instead of fishing for comments, just write comment-worthy stories.

Cravath to Glocks!

I brought a gun to class and shot myself.

You have to be kidding me. "Gunner" takes on a whole new meaning.
I am from a place where gun control means using both hands but in class?

This isn't Nam' - we have rules here man.

Mark it Dude

sharon: a little biased, or most biased ever?

Just for shits and giggles I would like to try going back to 1L con law under the "right to bear arms" and promptly be arrested and carted off while my liberal as all hell profs insisted that the founders anticipated abortion, stem cell research and the like. Law School, a breeding ground for emerging Republicans.

Considering that most of the student shooters committed suicide after their attack, I doubt that knowing other students have guns will deter them.

That being sad, there was a student at my law school who was arrested for having several guns, and other weapons in his apartment. He lived in DC at the time and such possession is illegal. It was very scary because he was always considered "weird" by other students but few would have suspected him to be potentially dangerous. I personally always avoided him because he often made statements that made me think he was mentally unstable.

Glocks suck. Get a real weapon and carry a Springfield or Walther.

OMG, SNE, Like worst idea ever... well, other than Lat's idea to let you blog.

Contrast the recent Hamas gunman--killed by an Israeli student who was carrying a handgun, with an assist from a rifleman--with the unchecked rampage at VA Tech.

Nobody who wouldn't already bring a weapon to class is going to use it during an "odd turn" in Property, nor are they going to start shooting the moment some prof pops in suddenly during crim law (assuming said prof is unarmed). The fact is, very few people will choose to get licensed and actually carry. Those of us who choose to do so know the responsibilities that come with carrying a gun in public, and act accordingly.

ahead of my time?

worst idea ever

1:32's first sentence is right on. The shooters committed suicide after their attacks. The prospect of death did not deter them. Why would they care that the victim-students might have guns? And more importantly, would the risks outweigh the benefits?

Personally, I would not want to go to a school where I knew my classmates had guns. I think professors would not want to teach at such schools either.

I have never seen anyone with a gun in any of my classes. Of course, I go to school in redneck heaven, i.e., New England.

I think it would be a good idea though if it kept dumb liberals from saying ridiculous things. I say this as a liberal. It's just that some of the things that liberals with no experience of the real world will say in class are absolutely amazing, and really quite counter-productive if you ever want to convince someone who doesn't already agree with you.

People need to learn how to deal with the real world. And in the real world, everyone is packing heat.

Daydream over.

I'm here.

in ur class.

and

i am carrying.

1:40 - deterrence is just one aspect of the equation; the other is mitigation. Crazy gunman surrounded by unarmed victims: Columbine disaster. Crazy gunman confronted by armed opponent: shooting spree cut mercifully short (a la Appalachian School of law shooting)

Sharon Eliza Nichols guestblogging: Bad Idea, or Worst Idea Ever?

1:32: Agree.

I don't think the issue is deterrance so much as it is limiting the harm an armed attacker can do. Alternatively, feel free to station a student version of an air marshal in every class room, or effectively remove the possibility of a gun entering the school (I have no qualms about not being allowed to carry into court, since I'm confident that that space is secure).

Uh, yeah, deterrent effect - that makes a lot of sense. Most if not all of these shooters off themselves at the end. AMIRITE?

Our first year crim law professor had an intruder come in and attack a girl in the front row; he beat the shit out of her for like five minutes and left. Turns out the law professor didn't know anything about it... some girl just got beat down by a pimp. I am transferring (in Georgetown night school now).

To 1:34---maybe you should see how well Glocks fire after being dropped in the mud before you say they suck. Personally, I fire a Kahr and am thinking about Walthers, but if a glock fit my hands, I would be perfectly happy to shoot it. Better than berettas, in my book.

To the author: There is nothing wrong with concealed carry being permitted on campuses. True, if the attacker is suicidal it may not deter, but it may prevent them from taking anyone with them. My fiance has pointed out that shooters don't seem to be deterred by gun-free campus signs.

I have completed Utah non-resident concealed carry training (which permits me to carry concealed in 28 states following a background check and application) and let me tell you that those who carry concealed take the responsibility very seriously. Many of the men in the class I took (who were being re-certified) told us that when they were carrying, they were even more careful to stay out of fights, because they knew they would have to pull out the gun before letting someone get to close so it couldn't be taken from them. Most of the people in the class had never drawn their firearm, let alone shot anyone.

But one of the women had scared off four knife-wielding teens that were coming after her and her child. (And yes, she tried to defuse and leave, and yes, she only displayed the gun, she didn't shoot.)

WE need to get rid of suicide hotlines and suicide "prevention" -- let people kill themselves before they get carried away and kill others.

As far as I can tell, this isn't just about law students, but university students generally.

This post was predictably ignorant about the nature of concealed weapons laws. People who are responsible enough to get concealed weapons permits are no the type of crazies who shoot random people.

This isn't about deterring - it's about stopping. Look at Appalachian school of law and the Israel example. If you want to disarm everybody with metal detectors, fine. But until that time it doesn't make sense to leave normal people unable to defend themselves.

Once you accept we have concealed carry permits (which most states do) and you realize there are very few restrictions on where you can take them - what makes a school so special that people with permits shouldn't carry there? We allow people into malls, yet CCP people don't go shooting random people there. It's just a knee-jerk reaction against guns in schools.

18 year old kid can carry a gun in military. 14 year old can carry gun hunting. But a law student -- they are too crazy and irresponsible...

FACT: Guns deter criminals more than any other factor, except dogs, when considering a home break in.

SEN to CWT so someone can fire her. Fridays use to be a good day to daydream and surf the net. Now I have to do real work because ATL and 1Ls don't mix.

Guns in class = bad
Prohibiting guns in class = good

Even assuming that armed students are likely to make a shooting spree shorter (as opposed to making things worse - shooting the wrong person, bad shot, whatever) the merits of allowing guns should be contrasted not with the percieved safety of knowing that no one is armed. The real upside to a no gun rule is that you can instantly arrest anyone with a gun. Seeing a gun and reporting it is a likely way of preventing a shooting. No such rule and you have no chance to see it coming until bullet fly. How many incidents have been avoided because someone was caught beforehand with a gun? How many avoided or cut short because someone else (other than an officer) had a gun?

1:45 - WORST IDEA EVER! Maybe Lat's on crack...

Most of the school shoooters kill themselves... when they're good and ready.

I don't think that Palestinian gentleman got exactly the carnage he wanted, thanks largely to some jewish lead.

I'm with 1:37. An armed student prevented considerable additional loss of life at a post-secondary school in Jerusalem just last night. Case closed, I think.

"knowing that no one is armed"

How do we know that? All we know is that nobody is legally armed--as we've seen time and time again, anyone who wants to can show up armed.

1:57 (II),

You do know what "concealed" means, right?

No one sees the school shooters' guns before they come out. That's kinda the point.

Is "perceived safety" a value? If it is, do you honestly think CCW state residents (you're probably one) have less "perceived safety" than residents of non-CCW states?

Typical,

I know nothing about concealed weapons laws, beyond what the name implies. If you would, please elaborate on the process involved in obtaining a concealed carry permit. I am not convinced that our gun laws prevent "crazies who shoot random people" from obtaining guns in the first place. What is it about the process of obtaining a concealed carry permit that weeds out the loonies?

I recognize this is likely a state-by-state process, so anecdotal evidence and generalizations are welcomed.

I have to third 1:37's point. Regulate the type of handgun carried; limit the ammo to something sensible; require biannual testing with shooting ability, understanding of justification law, and psych eval elements; require that weapons not be shown or discussed... but to prohibit it outright is irrational.

You want to carry a gun on campus? Fine, no problem. Here's the application process:

1. Sign up with the Office of the Dean and submit to a criminal background investigation.

2. Strap a big rubber penis to your head for two weeks, pending the outcome of the investigation.

3. Remove big rubber penis from head and begin carrying gun after passing background check.

Why do we need a permit to exercise our fundamental second amendment rights to carry a weapon?

Imagine if we needed a permit, background check, training, and a hefty license fee to get a voting permit?

I'm fine with the background check, 2:15. The synthetic phallus seems , however. Please elaborate on how this will enhance campus safety.

I'm fine with the background check, 2:15. The synthetic phallus seems superfluous, however. Please elaborate on how this will enhance campus safety.

"They've even got an official acronym"

Oh lord. How about, "They even have an official acronym," rather than what you posted? For someone who has a grammar blog, your writing leaves much to be desired.

2:18 - I have a new idea. Many people blame religion for a lot of killing so lets require permits before people can go to church.

To H&K PSP:

Limit the ammo to something sensible? I'm scratching my head trying to think of a way in which this makes any sense in light of (a) the basics I know about terminal ballistics and (b) your outstanding choice in firearms.

9mm is still weak, though.

Not to deter you fine upstanding citizens but do a google search on Appalachian law school shooting from and see what happens when guns are allowed on campus.

hint: the shooter was shot and killed by another law school student before he could kill additional people.

I carry a Beretta to my BigLaw job every day - got a problem with that?

1:32
in your own post you admit that those with whom you are most concerned already flout gun laws. If crazy dc dude possessed weapons illegally, why do you think he wouldn't carry weapons illegally?

As far as the deterent effect, that still applies even if shooters do kill themselves. The motivation behind shootings is the feeling of power and infliction of fear. If law abiding citizens can handle themselves during shootings and are not powerless and not afraid, then you have disincentivised the shooting.
The mitigation effect has already been discussed.

STI .45: I think anyone carrying FMJ in public should be shot; it's unsafe for those beyond your target. I'm not entirely comfortable with the idea of being stuck with only frangible ammo for my concealed carry (i.e. glaser saftey slugs), but I'd take that over not being allowed to carry at all.

As for 9mm, +P does what you need to do just fine, and I find I am more accurate with it than .40 or .45, which matters a lot in what I carry for use in public. My nightstand weapon is a full size USP in .45, since I'm less concerned about the effect of recoil on my aim in that context.

is it a more of a deterrent to carry a gun openly or to know that others may have concealed weapons?

"Imagine if we needed a permit, background check, training, and a hefty license fee to get a voting permit?"

Have you been to the South?

FACT: Guns do not kill people. George W. Bush kills people. The entire gun debate is a diversion from George W. Bush.

just a reminder that everyone in switzerland has an m16 in their closet (universal conscription) theirs Is not a violent society. This guns=violence leap doesnt hold.

Confession:

I roamed the halls of SHULaw for three years with concealed bluefish sandwiches that I didn't even refrigerate.

PSP,

If you haven't already, you should google over to firearmstactical.net (or similar). After speaking with Dr. Fackler a few times, I'm pretty convinced that caliber matters. Which is why I'd replace that USP with a 12-guage loaded with 00.

Relative penetration of particular rounds shouldn't be considered that heavily: most shots miss. ALWAYS consider what's behind your target.

Agreed on accuracy, though. So get a steel frame compact .45, and recoil won't be such a problem for your carry gun thanks to the weight.

My .02.

I pronounce myself Sultan of Threadjacking.

1:28 (Jeremy):

You are awesome!

Amen to my gun rights brethren. There is an irrational fear of people being able to carry guns. I tend to side with liberals on many issues, but they do have a penchant for the irrational. It isn't the people that go through the certification and background checks to get permits that you need to worry about. The people that shoot up schools are going to do it regardless. Has a SINGLE school shooting been committed by a concealed weapons permit holding individual? I think not.

Here’s my challenge to all those that irrationally fear concealed weapons carried by those that have permits: show me some statistics showing that concealed weapons permit holders are involved in a higher rate of gun-related crimes than the general public.

Abortions are constitutional right, far more clear and explicit than 2nd Amendment "right." Abortions kill FAR more (people) than guns. Abortions are purchased without any training, license, background check or permit. You can get an abortion at any age. Law students can get abortions. But guns? NOOOOOOOOO

Has anyone noticed that the quiet Injuns are the worst type of gun nuts? I am not talking about real Injuns, the firewater, good for nothing kind that every law school has one of. I mean the one from India that troll around American law schools getting all A's. Anyway, whenever you see one of them, if they are really fat and shy and quiet and don't talk much, you can be sure that they are reading Guns N Ammo in the toilet when they move their bowels. I think that is messed up. Can those guys get concealed carry permits? We should look into that.

There are three types of people out there:

Sheep (i.e. don't carry guns, which is fine)
Wolves (i.e. the bag guys with guns)
Shepherds (i.e. those that carry concealed weapons)

How could anyone possibly think that restricting concealed carry permits or eliminating them altogether would in any way stop people who've gone off the deep end from shooting a bunch of people?

I think it's sort of silly to say that someone who is literally psychotic would be scared off from going out and shooting people; however, there is no doubt that concealed weapons in the hands of law-abiding citizens/students would prevent further death in these situations.

I think it's a great idea. I've had my carry permit for 6 years now....I carry everywhere else, why shouldn't I be allowed to carry at school?

I'm in Texas. I have a gun by my bed, one in my car, and one in my office. It keeps the crime and office violence down.
I don't understand the pictures above. That gun isn't really concealed.

Who would have thought an ATL blogger would surpass even Billy Merck in terms of left-wing partisan hackery? Will Lat *ever* find a centrist or conservative substitute to balance out these hacks?

In moonyland, an alternate universe where murderous serial-killers dutifully follow gun laws and gun-free-zone restrictions, banning guns makes some sense. In the real world, not so.

Unfortunately, as John Lot has already demonstrated in "More Guns, Less Crime", gun regulations is an area where partisanship is not just a major invenience to sensible people (as with most PC policies) but responsible for many deaths.

Great idea! Now, perhaps fewer students will become victims of every nanny-state psychotic who decides to try to blow them away.

Who or what else is going to protect them? Campus police? Gun laws?

2:37: You fail to account for the near dearth of minorities in Switzerland. That is the real secret to low crime rates. Neutrality and homogenous (white or asian) society.

I was at lunch with my friend, a counselor at Bellevue (pshychiatric hospital) and he says that they have started playing Obama speeches for deranged or hysterical patients. It actually has a calming effect and reduces signs of paranoia and violence (hostility). It is incredible breakthrough!

More proof Obama is amazing!

I think the line of logic that is being ignored here is as follows:
1. Impose tight gun restrictions
2. Hard for licensed people to get guns
3. Very hard for unlicensed to get guns
4. Even harder for legitimately held guns to fall into the wrong hands

Didn't the Va. Tech kid buy his guns legally? Don't you think tighter restrictions could have prevented that? Why give out guns like candy and expect that to create an environment of deterrance when we can prevent the whole situation to begin with by keeping guns out of civilians' hands altogether?

Why everyone doesn't carry a gun has always been a mystery to me. I've been carrying for 5 years now, and I have to say - its kept me ut of trouble on several occassions. At first when I used to go trolling through the dark streets of Jersey City on my own for some late night Latina action, I would be scared - not anymore, friends, not anymore...

Fact: Obama is the white MLK and the black JFK.

Fact: Obama's middle name is Hussein.

Fact: Obama did lines of coke and carried a gun.

Fact: Obama's father is a polygamist.

Fact: Prius drivers suck dick. All of them.

There are some freaks at my law school (George Mason) who started a students for concealed carry group on campus. I see absolutely no benefit to allowing guns on campus. These people claim they'd feel safer if they could have guns, but I see slim to no chance that they'd actually be able to shoot a VA Tech style gunman (or any other gun-wielding criminal). The potential for disaster, however, seems very, very high.

To 3:04,

Because of two facts.

1. There are about 250 million guns in the U.S. (I'm getting that from anti-gun sources, so I don't know if it includes military firearms.) Fat chance of just getting rid of 'em. Also, a similar approach has not worked in England, D.C., Chicago, or anywhere else.

2. The right to adequately defend self and family from crime and tyranny is the bedrock of our system of government.

"we can prevent the whole situation to begin with by keeping guns out of civilians' hands altogether."

[1] As we will likely see post Heller, that approach is probably not going to be constitutionally viable.

[2] Even if it were, I've seen nothing to suggest that precluding the lawabiding members of society from having something has much affect on that item's availability to those who want it. We can't prevent drugs from being imported, what's to make you think we can prevent illegal weapons from circulating?

[3] Even ignoring my above points, there are a LOT of weapons in criminal circulation in America even now. If we forcibly disarmed every citizen who legally owned a weapon, there would still be enough guns and ammunition floating around to keep illegal gun use thriving for decades.

What are we supposed to do in the meantime... wear kevlar and hope we don't take a headshot while waiting for the State to rescue us?

Fact: McCain carries a gun to every press conference to brandish at offending reporters.

Fact: Reporters all drive priuses - ref above.

Fact: Doing lines of coke out of the barrel of a loaded gun is a great way to impress the chicks.

"I see slim to no chance that they'd actually be able to shoot a VA Tech style gunman (or any other gun-wielding criminal). The potential for disaster, however, seems very, very high."

Wow, that's pretty compelling reasoning you've given us there! And backed up by evidence! Shoot (no pun intended), based off that alone I have no problem forcibly removing the right to an effective means of self defense from others, much less giving it up myself!

Logical Gun Laws:

1. Any military veteran should be armed (especially senile, WWII veterans).

2. Women should not be allowed to carry guns absent extenuating circumstances.

3. Criminals with guns should be required to store those guns in a gun-safe with a trigger lock.

4. Sharks with lasers on their heads should patrol areas of low-lying water, such as coast and ports, as well as swimming pools.

5. Obama beleives in a individual right to bear arms as stated in the second amendment

6. The real reason for Iraq invasion was to secure Portals of Kazzan which, for 2500+ years have allowed interstellar travel.

7. 9-11 would have been prevented by everyone having a handgun. (FACT: handgun beats box-cutter like paper beats rock).

The truth will set you free...

It is better to be able to defend yourself than to be a victim a la VA Tech or NIU. As per the story out of Isreal reveals, it was a seminary student that killed the assassin, not the police. I would rather have a chance if some off his meds person who is upset over being "different" storms a class room and starts shooting a captive audience.

To 1:49-I have a .40 Walther P99, a Spingfield XD .45, and a Taurus 1911 .45 as well as a .357 snub nose SW. I have owned a Glock and it is not all that great. I trained with one in the military and had one for years when I decided to see if there were better weapons out there. You should just try something else, I was shocked at how much I liked the Walther. The snub is great for concealed carry, and the 1911 is a classic. The XD is a good target weapon that is accurate and easy to get on target.

Carrying legal guns is allowed at most Israeli university campuses. To bear a gun in Israel you must get a permit, which is usually granted to mentally stable people with army service in the past and without criminal record. Some of the students - e.g. reservists on vacation - are allowed to bear automatic weapons (M16) as well.
It works for some 50 yrs. No of student shootings by other students that bear guns during all that time? Zero. How often did the students with guns mitigate damages and put down terrorists on a shooting spree in campuses? At least 5-7 times during last 7 yrs. The last time it happened yesterday, in Jerusalem judaism seminar.
Make your own conclusions.

To atypical, about concealed carry laws:

For a Utah non-resident permit you must:

1) Complete a 2-day class on safety and gun/self-defense laws in your jurisdiction and qualify by hitting a 11 x 17 target with 18/25 rounds. You shoot the first 10 at 7 yards, the last 15 at three yards. If you qualify with a .45, you can carry any thing up to a .45 (so no .50 desert eagles for you, friend).

2) Get fingerprinted and go through a background check.

3) Have no serious criminal record. (Certain misdemeanors are ok.)

4) Send in an application and submit a fee to the State of Utah and be accepted.

Re: carrying concealed: some states only require that you not show your gun, i.e., no one can see the butt, barrel, etc. Others have a "no printing" rule. "Printing" is when the outline of the gun is visible through your clothing.

My fiance told me that out of the 10's or 100's of thousands who carry concealed, there are only 5 documented instances where a permit was revoked for firearms-based misconduct.

BTW, re: the VA Tech student, he should never have been permitted to buy guns, because he had a federal judgment against him (I think he was committed or something). It was only due to a computer error that it did not prevent him from buying a gun. 3:08 and others, look at the posts upthread about the Appalachian law school shooting and the shooting in Israel. A lot of people who like to carry concealed, like my fiance and his best friends, are crack shots.

2:59 - remember the killing fields? that was a homogenous asian society.

Hitler. Need I say more?

Interesting note: look at the (non-Israeli) news stories about the seminary shooting yesterday. You'll see the student who brought an early end to the killings described in the most general terms, almost never is the fact that he was a *student* who was *armed* mentioned, much less discussed. The most recent reports have seized on the fact that, due to compulsory military service, this man can be described as an "off duty army officer," allowing them to make it sound like it wasn't a student who responded.

Gotta love the spin. I wonder if this is an international incident that should be considered by SCOTUS on the 18th.

3:19 - I'll give you my conclusion: I wouldn't live in Jerusalem if you held a gun to my head.

Nor, will I allow crazy fearmongers to turn my country into some kind of facsimile of Jerusalem.

To 3:19

You shot a glock in the military? Really? I knew law enforcement shot them, but our M-9's were berettas. I didn't like them much, too much slide bite. But I can see why you'd like a Walther, I like how they feel in my hand in terms of balance, but I've never shot one.

2:59: good point. ergo, white homogenaity is the only solution to genocide and crime.

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/ccrkba-says-press-purposely-downplays-key-role-of-armed-student,306928.shtml

To ms 3:19 - has there been a scientific study of gun violence in Israel? It really is an amazingly gun-happy society.

This isn't even a "what if" question. It has happened, armed students stopped it at 3 instead of 15, and they guy didn't "go down in a hail of gunfire in a last ditch stand" -- he gave up right away, like the coward punks that all these mass shooters are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting

3:25:

Ever been to Jerusalem? Or checked the crime stats that don't make the news? If I recall correctly, it's almost certainly safer than your town, regardless of where that is.

3:26- I was fortunate that our Gunny wanted us to be able to pick up any weapon, fire it accurately, and be able to field strip it and reassemble it without a second thought. I took to carrying a Glock because of its resilience. However, I really enjoy the feel of my Walther, it lines up easily and will put 12 shots down range with a great facility and not much rise on the muzzle. I love 1911s. If they were easier to carry concealed I would have one on me all the time. The Glock is a good utlitiarian weapon but I would really encourage you to consider other weapons. Glocks make great 9s but beyond that I am not sold. I prefer a .40 or a .45. I want to only have to fire one shot if I need to draw at all.

3:30 - I don't choose to lead a "safe" life you pathetic fishdick. I choose to live my life free of fear and in the pursuit of my dreams.

I like when you go through the metal detector.. and something invariably beeps and they pat you down. They ultimately strip me, because I am "packing" in the groin area, and no one beleives it is "all-natural beef."

To 3:33: Ah, a Marine. Despite my zoomie need to mock y'all, every now and then the corps. displays shocking common sense for being part of the DOD.

I personally can't really shoot berettas (especially) and glocks (mostly) because I have tiny hands so I either get a bad trigger pull or really bad slide bite. Right now I shoot a single-stack Kahr. Do you have any suggestions for someone with small hands? (I wouldn't want anything lighter than my poly Kahr, in fact I'm thinking of getting a metal one to minimize kick.)

I thought that one shot thing was a myth, unless you hit them in the brain/nervous system, which can be difficult w/a moving target. Am I misinformed?

seems like there's a whole lotta soldiers on here all of a sudden. Aren't there some women you can rape somewhere? or kids to kill?

Fact: The human rectum can hold enough C4 (explosive) to take down a 747.

Fact: The government refuses to close this gaping security breach.

To 2:40 (1) - you are only partially right about the perpetrators of past campus shootings not having permits. With respect to Virginia Tech shooting, the state was criticized specifically because the perpetrator was able to buy a gun legally in the first place, due to lax reporting standards that did not pick up on his mental illness background (but should have, if more appropriate laws and reporting requirements were in place).

As for feeling "safer", while I never have a problem with increased law enforcement, I generally have a problem with self-appointed "protectors", particularly if they are the types who feel the need to be my protector (overly aggressive, etc.)

3:17-- wow, your right to own and carry guns really has done a lot to cut down on the number of shooting victims in the U.S.! I love the conclusive evidence that people who legally carry really do stop gun-wielding criminals from shooting more victims every day! I feel so much safer now that I remember they are out there ready, able, and proven capable of protecting us all.

If you are or were such an emotional wreck, suffer from poor impulse control and incapable of sufficent self control in law school that your posession of a firearm in or out of class presents a danger to yourself or to others due to stress or whatever, then you should perhaps not be an attorney at all and get a nice simple low stress job picking up dog sh*t for City Parks and Rec.

Its a fact that fear of armed reprisal deters criminals: my wife carries a gun and the first time she caught me looking down a waitresses blouse she threatened to shoot my peepee off. As she is not given to exaggeration, I now only gawk at mens asses.

"One shot, one kill" -- army sniper, here.

What you need "tiny hands" is a high powered, large gauge rifleman at your back. Since you have tiny hands and were in the Air Force, I can safetly assume you are a woman. The "lady glock" is effective at close range. The Walther PPK is stylish, sexy and lethal.

We should go shooting sometime.

OIC Capt Hall

Check out floridashootersnetwork.com. They have a "definitive thread for handguns for small hands" IIRC.

Metal-frame Kahrs seem to be a good choice. Long trigger pull, though.

To Eagle: He didn't have a permit. He was allowed to buy a gun, although the background check should have prevented it. We're not saying there should be no requirements for permits/gun ownership.

to 3:47, yep, I'm female, and hell, if we can carry rifles, I'm shooting. (Well, unless I'm hanging with a sniper.)

The lady glock is too big--since it is double-stack the distance between the grip and the trigger is still too long.

STI .45, thanks, I will when I get home. Good advice.

Check out floridashootersnetwork.com. They have a "definitive thread for handguns for small hands" IIRC.

Metal-frame Kahrs seem to be a good choice. Long trigger pull, though.

"you are only partially right about the perpetrators of past campus shootings not having permits"

No, 3:43, he is completly right. In Virginia, no permit is required for a resident to buy a handgun. 21 or older, two forms of ID, and a criminal background check. To legally carry that gun concealed, however, does require a permit. Get your facts straight.

Fact: The human rectum can hold enough C4 (explosive) to take down a 747.

Fact: The government refuses to close this gaping security breach.

3:40- There is a new Ruger out that is thin in the grip and holds 17+1. Maybe you should try that or go with a subcompact. Several makers have them and if you have small hands that would be a good fit. Also, OIC Capt Hall is right about the Walther PPK, a great gun for a woman. The .380 is a good caliber and it fits well in small hands.

The one shot thing is not a myth. I have seen many a shot go down range that would fall any man. I like larger caliber hollow points because I know that when I do draw down on someone the hole left behind will certainly be fatal with a centrally placed shot.

If you are or were such an emotional wreck, suffer from poor impulse control and incapable of sufficent self control in law school that your posession of a firearm in or out of class presents a danger to yourself or to others due to stress or whatever, then you should perhaps not be an attorney at all and get a nice simple low stress job picking up dog sh*t for City Parks and Rec.

Fact: Guns make me horny

3:40- There is a new Ruger out that is thin in the grip and holds 17+1. Maybe you should try that or go with a subcompact. Several makers have them and if you have small hands that would be a good fit. Also, OIC Capt Hall is right about the Walther PPK, a great gun for a woman. The .380 is a good caliber and it fits well in small hands.

The one shot thing is not a myth. I have seen many a shot go down range that would fall any man. I like larger caliber hollow points because I know that when I do draw down on someone the hole left behind will certainly be fatal with a centrally placed shot.

I will pick up dog sh*t with a MAUSER 20 GAUGE OVER UNDER!!!

to 3:59---are we talking single handgun shots, or single rifle shots? I won't contest a rifle, but for carrying concealed, I was taught (and told that law enforcement was taught) that you shoot 2 and 2, and that people have a good 30 seconds where they can still harm you if you shoot them in the center of mass/heart, even if the shot is lethal.

Between the eyes... the only shot I take!

And we're off topic. Let's keep the weapon choice and shooting skills discussion off the latte-sipper's radar: they're liable to become scared and upset.

And we're off topic. Let's keep the weapon choice and shooting skills discussion off the latte-sippers' radar: they're liable to become scared and upset.

if the long trigger pull is a problem, you can always get it lightened by an experienced gunsmith. just be sure to get a good holster..

None of this would happen if Bush were to be impeached! The amount of war and violence perpetuated by this administration is unprecedented in the history of the world. We have essentially created a monster in terrorism that has turned on us. WE are our own worst enemies and we are arming and training both sides. WE are like a disease of the white blood cells where they attack the human body. This AMERICA needs CHEMOTHERAPY -- or a blood transfusion.

Cheney has been arming the militias for 8 years -- the next president will have a revolution to deal with -- and military worn down by terorrists. Our only hope is evironmentalists, that have in the past resorted to violence.

The only problem with allowing guns in the classroom is that only the pyschos would actually bring them. You know the the type - they're in every class. They're the ones who turn bright red and dark blue at the same time making policy arguments having nothing to do with the professor's point about the law. Then they bitch about getting Cs on their exams. These are the freaks that would bring them in. If not for that, I'm all for it - along with scotch, blow and strippers.

Holy crap, who decided letting a "good ole Suthin belle" with a penchant for the melodramatic write about the law was a good idea?!?! I wondered why the posts were total crap this week... then I remembered who's writing them. Thanks Sharon, for officially making me glad I left the state of Alabama and reminding us all why you're at Alabama. Your doin' a guuud job of shewing how prestigeeous Alabammer truely is. Freaking A, I'm on boycott till the writers come back to work.

Its like my college EE professor used to say: "One man's psycho killer is another mans freedom fighter" Do YOU really feel qualified to determine the difference?

Sharon, show them how hot you are!