You sleep sitting up. And when caught you insist you were praying.

I've done this.

I went to a Baptist High School.

/Fucked up for life

pu$$y

Seriously, what makes this lawsuit ridiculous? If the boy was suing for being awakened, that would be a stupid lawsuit. In this case, however, the boy alleges that his teacher caused him physical injury when she tried to wake him up. Though the teacher had a right to wake him up, she cannot use any method she desires to do so. If she had physically punched him or slapped him and caused him physical injury, I think most people would agree that the suit has merit. I don't think the result should be any different just because she did not directly make physical contact with him.

2:16 - Actually, maybe the result should be different. It was not reasonably foreseeable that such injury would result from her trying to wake up a sleeping student.

What if she woke him up and, in response, he sprinted out of the classroom and crashed into the door? Could he recover for those injuries? I doubt it.

2:16, what makes this ridiculous is that it is virtually impossible to make enough noise by slamming one's HAND on a desk to injure an ear drum.

Kashy, you're beautiful, but it's still wrong to steal posts from Overlawyered. Knock it off.

Most likely his head was resting on the desk, or on his arm (which was in turn resting on the desk). It's at least plausible that the conducted vibrations from a hard impact to the desk could damage the eardrum in such a situation.

This was an assault. Criminal charges should be filed immediately. HAHAHAHAHAHA. This country is something else.

Dear fucked up for life:

I feel you brother

I don't know. I've been seriously annoyed by teachers who wake me. Lets hope this teacher is sued to the ground.

If there is no evidence of causation, then the suit will be tossed out. In many cases, not just those that involve awakening sleeping students, there might not be evidence of causation. We don't know if there is or isn't evidence of causation at this stage, so how can we make this determination? I could definitely see how a forceful impact on a hard surface right next to his ear could cause an injury to the eardrum. But if it did not, then the suit will be tossed on summary judgment or the jury will return a verdict for the defendant.

Eggshell plaintiff. F**k your reasonable foreseeable consequences, 2:21. If she slammed her hand on the desk and it damaged his eardrum, she's liable whether she reasonably thought it would harm him or not. "You take your plaintiff as you find him."

2:21, proximate cause would likely cut off the teacher's liability in your hypo.

in high school, my algebra teacher once woke a kid up by lifting the desk up and dropping it from about a foot up. no suit. must be a better way.

Dear fucked up for life:

I felt your brother

Only ridiculous thing here is that the "teacher" (hate to use that word for someone so unprofessinal) decided they had the right to invade the physical integrity of a child. If he is asleep in class there is probably a very good reason and he is not making a disruption. Why should a "teacher" commit a battery (hitting something attached to someone, like the desk a head is resting on, is a battery) at all, much less for something so silly? This unprofessional, abusive person was only angry that they were not keeping this child's attention because they were not doing their job of TEACHING and so they lashed out an innocent child. Shame on them, hope they lose everything!!

2.36 - are you shitting me? seriously, are you shitting me?

"We welcome slamming and loud noises"

Kashy, you're a tease!

2:21, I hope you've been in practice for a looong time and just don't remember torts, because there is clearly proximate cause here. When the type of injury is foreseeable, but not the degree, then proximate cause is satisfied. Obviously, when one slams one's hand on a desk, it is entirely foreseeable that the vibrations will make a noise. The fact that the foreseeable noise caused greater damage than the teacher expected is not relevant because of the eggshell plaintiff doctrine.

Good luck with the Bar if you haven't taken it already.

I wake students up by putting my tongue in their anus...

Guys in my high school had their eardrums damaged by overzealous teachers all the time, it was a pretty big deal. There was a lawsuit and the teachers got put on administrative leave and I think it even made the paper or something, it was no big deal.

2:38, 2:36 is spot on.

BEST FRATSTUD VARIATION EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOUD NOISES

This happened at Penn Law right before a Nittany Lion football game (if I remember correctly).

Apparently the teacher is claiming it was not the slam of the hand that hurt the student, but the pencil jammed in the students ear.

BigLawBoard often has some good news stories.

2:44, please tell me you're kidding.

1) "Very severe" really? as opposed to merely severe?

2) What are possible "severe" eardrum damage? Perforation. That is it.

3) it is IMPOSSIBLE to rupture a human ear drum by slamming a hand on a desk. The amount of noise generated by a hand slapping on a desk is not REMOTELY close to the 180dBs required to perforate an eardrum. However, an IPOD cranked at high volume (amped in recording setting) could easily damage an eardrum with slight perforation. The vibration from a slap could trigger pain to a pre-existing injury. However, causing pain to a pre-existing injury is not the same as causing the injury itself.

4) a perforated eardrum (likely no more than "partial") is a relatively simple, and common, medical problem, particularly among teenagers with horseplay, loud music and developing bodies. The "damages" awarded in Connecticut would be a doctors visit.

5) Slamming desk with hand or book or ruler is a common way to wake students since at least Aristotle slammed Plato's stone desk. It is not abusive or egregious and shows the teacher actually cared enough to wake the student up.

6) Sleeping in class is a profound sign of disrespect by students -- but could be caused by poor eating, sleeping or abusive home/school environment.

Something tells me this sleeping incident wasn't the first with this kid.

The "eggshell" plaintiff rule is a gee-whiz case taught in first year torts. Most states, including Connecticut, have established reasonable standards for proving damage.

2:58, you just don't allow for the facts of childrens' lives with what you say. Probably the child meant no disrespect but was just tired or ill or the teacher was boring because they were doing just enough to get by and teaching to the lowest common denominator in the class. Even if the child was angry and being disrespectful, the teacher should have been professional and not physically invaded the child's personal space--that is even more disrespectful and sets a very bad example of how to interact with others when they are not integrating with the group.

Try this little experiment... put your head on the desk. Slam hand against desk. Not much noise. Slam as hard as you can... still nothing. (I slammed desk really hard, and hand slipped and nailed myself in the nuts... I felt that, but my ears were fine).

2:36, are you his mom or something?

i'm dumber having read this thread. i can't believe you're all having this discussion.

I've gotten bigger awards on less than this. Of course, I'm a defense lawyer :-(

When I was at Penn State Law, this happened all the time. Only, students would be awakened by the gunfire in West Philadelphia rather than by a teacher's hand.

3:04--you immediately assume student was showing no disrespect, a model student, and teacher was doing minimum required and invading personal space. You have certainly never taught in a public school or raised teenage boys -- like I have, both! It is the teenagers responsibility to stay awake in class. A students desk is NOT a students personal space, and teachers often slam hands together, slam books on desk or ground. This is a clear attempt by some punk kid, his family, and their lawyer to take advantage of the system and get paid by school board -- with TAX DOLLARS. People like you are the reason no one wants to teach. Parents who cannot get their children to be responsible citizens in the classroom or do the homework -- but suddenly have unbounded energy to sue teachers and school system when something happens they can cash in on.

Excerpt from the Feb 29 Wall Street Journal Article entitled "What Makes Finnish Kids So Smart," discussing why Finn teens always score so high on international tests (as opposed to American kids, who routinely do very poorly):

"Last summer, at a conference in Peru, [Mr. Tapio Erma, a Finnish principal,] spoke about adopting Finnish teaching methods. During a recent afternoon in one of his school's advanced math courses, a high-school boy fell asleep at his desk. The teacher didn't disturb him, instead calling on others. While napping in class isn't condoned, Mr. Erma says, 'We just have to accept the fact that they're kids and they're learning how to live.'"

3:12, I find your statements interesting and wise. Please, tell me more.

I think using "child" for a 15-year-old's a bit much. 3:13: Do you really think schools should take a "hey, they're learning how to live?" approach to things? Don't forget that we have NCLB in this country.

As a former teacher, parent of a teenager, ENT surgeon, and expert witness in medical malpractice trials, I think I might have some more insight than the random TTT law student.

It has been pointed out that: a) it is highly unlikely that the "slam" perforated (assuming this is the "very severe" damage) the eardrum. Perforation is indeed (partial or total) the worst damage than can be caused by injury. EVEN IF a fact finder decided the teacher caused the injury -- the teacher could show mitigation, by child's horseplay, ipod use, degenerative disease, juvenile ear infections etc. -- becuase it is highly unlikely that an eardrum could be damaged this way. I have seen hundreds of perforated eardrums and 90% are in young males and caused by loud music or trauma (far more than slamming hand next to ear). The biggest problem in this case, in my opinion, is whatever "quack" doctor that is helping with the medical analysis to allow this to go forward.

I got the shit smacked out of me more than once in school by teachers. (and I'm not kidding)

I laugh at the "how dare they invade the student's personal space" talk. Honestly? Teachers have very little leverage with students in regards to actually forcing them to sit down, shut up, and do their work. (or in this case, wake up) If a kid says fuck off, the teachers can do nothing, and as is clear, the discipline will not be instilled at home at an early age.

After getting whipped a second time in high school by the gym teacher I straightened up. Not that I encourage that sort of thing, but it didn't scar me for life. A reasonable use of corporal punishment administered at an appropriate time can go a long way.

"Mr. Erma says, 'We just have to accept the fact that they're kids and they're learning how to live."

You're kidding me right? All else put aside, that statement is scary in its scope. Gang bangers might be learning how to live but that doesn't mean they don't belong in jail (their actions have negative impacts on themselves and others). Likewise, to the extent that napping in class is detrimental to the napping student and to other students around him/her, it is the teacher's responsibility to intervene. We, as a society do not and should not condone the kind of abdication of responsibility that Mr. Erma advocated. Furthermore, 3:13 seems to commit a fallacy in quoting that statement: namely that poster appears to be attributing causation to correlation (assuming, arguendo, that there is correlation). Never do that.

Note: I recongize how extreme my example is, but I am just trying to illustrate a point.

3:13: Apparently there is not a "logic" portion on the Finnish test -- the anecdotal evidence of a sleeping student does not even RELATE to higher test scores. How do Finnish standardized tests compare to US standardized tests? What have the Finns contributed to the world lately? Their GDP is the size of Boston...

2:41 -- best post EVER - she was hot TOO!

I used to put my genitalia in peoples ears and mouths when they passed out at a frat party -- we would take pictures and laugh and laugh. Now I realize....that was pretty gay.

I call B.S. No surgeon or anyone else above the age of 35 would ever use the abbreviation/phrase TTT.

I think 2:36 just baited all of you.

MR. PEANUT says:
What did the desk do wrong? Next time, hit the "innocent child."

Some of you folks are a little extreme -- I posted the excerpt from the WSJ article on Finnish kids because 1) I remembered it had a similar example of a student sleeping in class that I thought was anecdotal and 2) I thought the article was a good one and some might enjoy looking it up on google and reading it.

I did not cut and paste the entire article, but of course the paragraph I did cut needs to be read context of the entire article. In addition, my earlier post was solely informational and objective, and I offered it solely as a piece of info relevant to the topic.

The absurd post by assclown that gets into a "causation"/"correlation" discussion completely misses the mark; go back and read my post: I was not trying to "prove" anything, so you can take your A+ from statistics 101 at TTT college and go show the Finnish kids -- I'm sure they will be impressed.

Glad someone figured that out, 3:28.

3:13

actually that comes from philosophy (i was a philo major lo these many years). in any case the reason i went to law school was my inability to get any sort of A in any sort of math. i disagree that my causation/correlation comment missed the mark. it was a fair inference from you post that you were trying to show causation. if you don't want things taken out of context, then provide some context. Thank you that is all.

"i was a philo major"

You need not say anything more.

2:58, why is Aristotle hitting Plato's desk relevant? We're talking about sleeping students, not sleeping teachers.

Who is student and who is teacher -- depends on your perspective...deep thought

3:13

touche. :-) i was a self-depricated philo major. heck, if i'd have taken myself seriously i would have been forced to cry myself to sleep every night. i just hope you don't take yourself too seriously. ok, that was a lie because i really don't care how you take yourself. but, if you got mad at all over anything i wrote . . . then i think you deserved what you got.

Love,

assclown

AC -- to quote the late Tupac Shakur, himself a great teacher of the people:

"Shit, I'm wit cha, I ain't mad at cha.
Got nuttin but love for ya, do your thing boy."

2:58, just because teachers used invasive disciplinary measures in the past doesn't mean they were appropriate. The teacher didn't have a right or a need to slam the desk. S/he clearly has anger management issues and shouldn't be teaching. I hope his or her career is destroyed.

4:03, this thread has already been trolled. Move along now.

"S/he clearly has anger management issues and shouldn't be teaching. I hope his or her career is destroyed."

This post is just dripping in irony.

Actually, if the desk in question happens to be one of those wooden and steel contraptions with an open cubby to store textbooks, pencils, etc., then I can see why the boy would be complaining about damages.

I remember putting my head down on one of those desks in high school with my ear pressed on the surface when someone dropped a history textbook on it.

Felt like my eardrum exploded.

Parents like 2:36 are the reason why we have so many whiny and lazy kids today. If that young man cannot handle "loud noise", the teacher could try using a bucket of water next time, and see if the water would "burn" that super-sensitive young man's delicate skin.

5:05, thanks for making my day.

P.S. You're an idiot.

XOXO,

2:36

4:40 is right, I remember having my ear down on one such desk and the mere rubbing of fingers on the top of the desk was quite audible. I can only imagine what a book, slammed down, would sound like.

I think cracking a horse whip next to his ear would have been funnier, and made more of a lasting impact.

Seriously, people, we're turning into a country of whiny pussies. What is this teacher supposed to do? Whisper gently in his ear? Use aromtherapy oils to gently rouse him?

4:40... This was at my school, and there are few desks like that, I've only seen one in the whole school. This whole thing is completely ridiculous.

6:02, I think a gentle tapping would have been appropriate.

Actually, 9:08, it was at my school, too, and I've only seen one desk in the whole school that WASN'T as 4:40 described.