Actually, upon further review, this is pretty stupid.

LAT, why put WLRK and Willliams & Connolly together? they are both top shelf firms

Yeah, it's pretty dumb, but I voted anyway.

the terms "cool" and "law firm" should never appear in the same sentence.

so fucking lame

I think this wuld be more fun if you did 64 firms instead of 16.

Diito re 12:35 and 12:38. This is BS: Lat's letting his preference for his alma mater influence him.

This just underscores how stupid the Vault rankings are.

i understand the seeding is confusing, but y'all should be smarter than that

So stupid. Where is this blog headed?!

They are vault seeds - does no one know how tournaments do rankings? 1 plays 16, 2 plays 15, 3 plays 14...It's also set up so the winner of 1/16 plays winner of 8/9, 2/15 v. 7/10, 3/14 v. 6/11...Morons...I work in a field of morons.

I am confused re the bias issue. Lat put #1 w/ #16. Where's the bias? Of course they're both top shelf firms--he picked only the top 16 firms (according to vault anyway)!

Completely ridiculous! This is why lawyers get such a bad rap.

Uh, you forgot the powerhouse boutique which handles high-pressure "bet the couch and the Honda" post-matrimionial work, Justin & Timberlake.

i hope this wasn't your idea, kash. SEN went down hard for something as lame-o as this.

This is like watching the Cowboys play the Eagles. You root for no one to win and hope that there are as many injuries as possible to all parties.

Hill---Did Lat approve this post? It is totally absurd and pointless -- Sort of like asking who is cooler-Lat or Hill?--Truth of the matter is that no one cares. Should have allowed write ins--then everyone could have written in CWT

Losers.

i think the top 64 would have been a lot more fun and would have avoided some matchups like wachtell v. WC at the very beginning. but i do like the idea!

I thought this was a pretty cool idea. Then I realized everyone voted by the rankings, so you can almost determine the winner already.

K&E should advance ... they're pretty cool. They offered me a spot on their firm basketball team during interviewing.

I like how people that don't like this actually take the time to post the fact that they think the "tournament" is lame. Couldn't you have just not participated/gone on to the next blog entry? I don't like half the posts on Above the Law. And you know what? I simply don't read them. These are the same people that don't think you should be able to smoke in private establishments. Too much effort to simply not go to the establishments that don't agree with your view of where people should be able to smoke. Instead, you feel that you should make everyone conform to your views. So much for freedom of choice and voting with your feet.

1:07: Kash is cooler than Lat.

co-sign 12:42.

1:07 and 1:31 2 votes for Kash

Too bad there are a bunch of Vault-obsessed first years in New York who will spend half the day voting on this.

Can we also have a post on how you want to correct your professor's pronunciation? Sweet!!!!!

1:30: you are obviously a moron. I have no idea what "freedom of choice" and "voting with your feet" have to do with crappy blog entries, and I'll wager that neither do you.

I just wanted to say that I love the Justin Timberlake schtick. It is the highlight of my day. Thanks JT for bringing sexy back to Atl

Which firm is "cooler"? Has the blog been hijacked by an 8-year-old?

All these nonsense polls of late... Abovethelaw is jumping the shark.

12:42 has it right. Law firms are not cool. They're where you go as a lawyer if you want to maximize your income. Period. The "cool" lawyer jobs all pay $40k a year. I work at a firm, but telling that to anyone who's legitimately cool would definitely downgrade me big time. I would just add that the "Vault Top 16" is basically a ranking of the most sweat-shop (and thus least cool) of firms. So whoever is #16 is probably the "coolest," in relative terms.

I wonder why 1:54 stopped at #16. Does that mean that it works at #17?

why are people on this site obsessed with latham?

white & case should be in the sweet 16

I agree that Williams & Connolly should not be facing Wachtell in the first round, and that the idea of those two firms squaring off is like a baseball team facing a basketball team - they play different sports entirely

D&L would beat out all of these.

@ 2:02: no, stupid. So let me spell it out: the Vault Guide, as a whole, is a ranking of the places least pleasant to work at on a day to day basis. So Wachtell, where you work 90-hour weeks as a matter of basically firm policy (I went to HLS and have a number of friends there, so I'm not talking out of my ass), is the worst place to work, and so on and so forth. This doesn't stop at #16. But the "top 16" comprises the 16 biggest sweatshops (with a few exceptions -- e.g., Cadwalader is undoubtedly worse than Latham; so really, the better gauge of "worst firms for an associate" is the AmLaw PPP rankings, which correlate almost perfectly to how much associates have to bill for the same salary everyone else gets -- but Vault is fairly close).

But they're not

In the NCAA's, they say a 12 always beats a 5.

Here I believe that status goes to 6/11. Kirkland pwns STB in terms of coolness.

Quien es mas macho? Fernando Llamas o Ricardo Montalban?

I think a lot of people are just voting Vault rankings, not their own approximation of "coolness."

Obviously, coolness is relative. But the idea that Cravath is cooler than WilmerHale--that's pretty screwy, I think.

Despite the lameness, I must agree with the Kash voters.

1:41, seeing as how your are a little slow, I'll spell it out for you. People have the FREEDOM to CHOOSE to post whatever they want on the blogs that they run. If you don't like it, simply go to the next post. Chances are, there are many people out there that do like the post and they shouldn't be deprived of the content because it doesn't appeal to you. If you don't like the blog as a whole, stop reading it (vote with your feet).

cadwalader best firm ever

You all know what Lat is gonna do next, right? He's going to start a bracket for law schools and let all the dumbass law students flood this site with thousands of idiotic comments.

"My law school is better than yours!"
"T14 T14!"
"X law school is a TTT!"
"I'm an insecure law student and I think the rankings validate my existence as a human being!"

Oh wait, law students won't admit the last one...

please do it again with 64 firms and include OMM and Gibson.

2:49, that was last year (http://www.abovethelaw.com/2007/03/atl_march_madness_law_schools_1.php). Also, it says as much in this post...

1:05,

I am pretty sure you meant to say Cowboys versus Patriots.

Sure we will, 2:49. Why is that any less of a meaningful validation than those pro bono tools or anything else people tout?

Why have the best corporate firm (Wachtell) face off against the best lit firm (W and C) in the opening round? Crappy seeding Lat.

Lame.

Kash, why don't you do webcam or something instead. That would be much more interesting.

At the very least, maybe something like a tournament of Judges or Lawyers or Lawsuits of the Day/Week/Mayan Epoch.

1:30,

I take the time to post comments about how this is lame, for several reasons. One, its lets the posters know when something sucks, so that hopefully we will never something like it again in the future. Two, I am trying to avoid doing something productive and it is as good a way to kill time as any. Finally, it causes people to post comments about how stupid it is for people to post comments that a post is lame, which allows me to make this comment:

I like how people that don't like this actually take the time to post the fact that they think the "tournament "comment is lame. Couldn't you have just not participated/gone on to the next comment? I don't like half the comments on Above the Law. And you know what? I simply don't read them. These are the same people that don't think you should be able to smoke in private establishments. Too much effort to simply not go to the establishments that don't agree with your view of where people should be able to smoke. Instead, you feel that you should make everyone conform to your views. So much for freedom of choice and voting with your feet.

Lame.

Kash, why don't you do webcam or something instead. That would be much more interesting.

At the very least, maybe something like a tournament of Judges or Lawyers or Lawsuits of the Day/Week/Mayan Epoch.

1:30,

I take the time to post comments about how this is lame, for several reasons. One, its lets the posters know when something sucks, so that hopefully we will never something like it again in the future. Two, I am trying to avoid doing something productive and it is as good a way to kill time as any. Finally, it causes people to post comments about how stupid it is for people to post comments that a post is lame, which allows me to make this comment:

I like how people that don't like this actually take the time to post the fact that they think the "comment" is lame. Couldn't you have just not participated/gone on to the next comment? I don't like half the comments on Above the Law. And you know what? I simply don't read them. These are the same people that don't think you should be able to smoke in private establishments. Too much effort to simply not go to the establishments that don't agree with your view of where people should be able to smoke. Instead, you feel that you should make everyone conform to your views. So much for freedom of choice and voting with your feet.

Skadden over Weiss? ridiculous

Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP changed its name in 2005 or something, but people keep spelling it wrong.

I would apologize for the sort of double post, but I made a bet with a buddy that I could go 24 hours without following a single rule of etiquette.

KIRKLAND!!!!!

This is the stupidest thing I have ever seen in my life

How come Nixon Peabody didn't make the cut? Because, as we all know . . .

Poor Weil doesn't stand a chance against the ATL crowd favorite Latham & Watkins.

How could you rank STB vs. Kirkland in the 1st round?? They are both tops in coolness, IMHO. I guess that's what their head-to-head match-up is so close. I think STB marginally is cooler.

The only thing worse than a law firm bracket would be a law blog bracket.

Instantapundit v. White Collar Crime

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2008/02/law-prof-blog-r.html

KIRKLAND WINS!!!!!!!

Nobody will stop the Latham powerhouse!

It's upset season. Latham will take down Wachtell. There's nothing "cool" about billing 2800 hours.

OMM, welcome to the NITTT

There is nothing cool about billing 2500 hours at Latham and getting paid half as much.

There's nothing cool about any of these firms. To the extent there's any firm that's "cool," I guarantee it's not in "The Vault"'s top 16.

Fix, I call Fix!
The high seed got top billing in all except Skadden v. PWRWD. There, Skadden - the 4 seed - is listed second. It's no coincidence that PWRWD is nearly pulling the upset, since every other firm listed on top is leading!

Second rule of making polls: set them up so as to avoid influencing the outcome. Kash, who I normally love, missed on that one. Of course, she also missed on the first rule, which is to make polls interesting.

Sorry Kash, I love ya, but this was a poor post. None of these firms are remotely "cool."

What is wrong with Shearman? I thought that was a really good firm.

None of the lower seeds are winning, what a joke.

LOL! SKADDEN SENT OUT MASS EMAIL TO GAME TEH NUMBERS!

Is there a medical blog that features shit like, "Which HMO or hospital is cooler?" Could there be young douche accountants arguing over PWC vs. KPMG? More salad-tossing, less douche debates.

1:54 seems pissed off that it went to Harvard and does not work at the vaunted Vault Top 16. And of course, much like many HLS grads, it had to point out that it went to HLS. Whoopdy doo, 1:54, Whoopdy f-ing doo! I'd feel angry too if I went to HLS and got denied a job at the Vault Top 16.

This is fun. Anyone who says otherwise either: (1) works at firm ranked lower than 16, or (2) works at firm that is losing the first round.

Latham to the Victory!

Given what shitty places these are to work at, I had no wish to work at any of them, and thus didn't apply to any of them. I thought that would have been obvious. Of course I could have gotten a job at, e.g., Skadden, which scrapes the bottom for HLS students. The only one of these firms that's competitive for HLS students is Wachtell. I knew plenty of people who went to Cravath with far worse transcripts than I had. Wisely, I chose to make the exact same money at a firm that required less of my time. Prestige-whorism is the only reason anyone ever does otherwise.

But enjoy striving for your doc review job at Skadden coming from your shit school that leads you to believe any of these places are actually competitive hirers.

Now Here's a Good Idea wrote (at 3:20(2)): I would apologize for the sort of double post, but I made a bet with a buddy that I could go 24 hours without following a single rule of etiquette.

I recommend next time you try to break all rules of etiquette you make your post in all capital letters.

1:54 is right, 2:02. Little secret: anyone from HLS (or YLS or SLS, for that matter) who is not at a "Vault 16" firm is where s/he is by choice, not because s/he couldn't get a job at a fucking safety firm like Skadden or Weil. I would say that Cravath is somewhat competitive at HLS, but other than Wachtell, none of the others in this "top 16" are. Munger Tolles is though, as are a number of boutiques (who are also absent from The Vault's list).

In general, law students like yourself don't seem to understand how stupid "The Vault" is. When you become an associate and receive the survey from the Vault that generates its rankings, and are asked to arbitrarily rate hundreds of firms that you may have never even heard of, let alone ever worked at, faced as opposing counsel, or know people at, you will understand exactly why the list is generally static (because everyone says, "oh, i heard in law school (from other clueless law students who read The Vault) that Firm X is very prestigious, so I'll rate them accordingly") and almost entirely meaningless.

This comment thread seems to be dominated by people who are completely unfamiliar with Above The Law in all its trivial, irrelevant, just-for-fun glory. Of course this is dumb - it's meant to entertain people who themselves know how absurd it is to be entertained by such things...but still are. Did you come here looking for substance? You have only yourselves to blame.

O'DOYLE RULES!

I wanna cash in on Kash!

Sidley

9:29 - Thanks for the laugh. I needed that at 10:30pm with no end in sight.

1:54 and Another HLS Grad:

I find it surprising that people with your credentials would find the need to tout them anonymously on a blog. Perhaps graduating low in your class ranks did a number on your self-esteem.

I don't think it's productive to berate other commenters, or for that matter, to troll prestige-whore-oriented blogs with self-righteous blather about you somehow chose the noble path by going to a not-prestigious firm.

Please don't mistake firms' lust for top-tier school grads as a proxy for actual intelligence or legal talent. But I guess I don't have to tell you that -- your low self-esteem speaks for itself.

Finally, the hypocrisy you've demonstrated is actually quite humorous. There is something funny about a law school prestige whore calling out a firm prestige whore. If you truly embraced your own theory (and were confident in your brain) you would have gone to a cheaper, lower-ranked school and just graduated top of your class. Any Top20 grad who graduates top 5% of his/her class can get the same jobs as a Harvard grad -- especially one who chooses to go to a not-so-prestigious firm in search of the "better life"

Thanks, but I graduated magna.

And I see this blog as obsessed with money more than prestige. Also, while your charge of hypocrisy has some superficial appeal, the analogy on which it stands is, in my opinion, quite incorrect. The difference between HLS and, e.g., Michigan, isn't just a difference of prestige -- it's a difference of quality. HLS has better professors, more demanding course work, and better discussions. This was plain to me from every experience I had taking a class from a visiting professor (thankfully few). This was plain to every friend I had who participated in the HLS-Boalt "third-year exchange" program. By contrast, doing doc review at Skadden is hardly higher quality work than taking depositions as a first year, which I was able to do.

1:54: "And I see this blog as obsessed with money more than prestige."

If you truly place prestige above money (at least in the long-run), you are a fool and a tool. Any "prestige" that you cannot convert into cash is pointless.

Good luck continuing to keep that ego of yours supported by telling people at cocktail parties how you graduated magna.

Money rules

lat - do we really have to endure 4 posts of this nonsense?

That was the point, 11:28. I don't place prestige over money. That's why I didn't apply for jobs at any of the sweatshop firms that are competing for the title of "coolest" here, based entirely on their Vault prestige ratings. I work less for the same money, and thus earn a higher hourly wage; so obviously I place prestige over money. But thank you for your misplaced condescension.

Then why so bitter, 1:54? Seems like something has gotten yours and 9:11's panties all up in a bunch. Could it be the places that require less of your time and entail taking depositions as a first year? Or is it the fact that you're both virgins?

1:54 and Another HLS Grad, you are both douchebags. Some of what you say is actually correct, but God damn, how annoying. I have to admit, I am convinced you two (or likely you one) are in fact HLS grads, or at least Yale grads posing as HLS grads.

Tip for people: Good reason to avoid top Vault firms: There are lots of HYS grads running around those places.

More intensive courses, that's rich.

my classes are so rigorous! our class discussions are mind blowing!

Clearly, reading Daubert v. Merrel Down in Torts whilst at Harvard is more intensive than reading the same at STTTanford!

Whoops, Merrel Dow!

1:54 at 11:17 said that HLS has "better discussions" than other law schools. Bullfeathers.

That just might be the most idiotic thing that I've read on ATL. To have a good discussion, you can't be self-absorbed as you have to be willing to consider the other side. Proof why HLS doesn't have "better discussions" is that HLS has self-absorbed people like 1:54 himself.

1:54: I work at one of those top firms and I took depositions as a first year. I don't think that's that impresssive. My guess is that a smaller firm actually requires more of your hours. You can't have it both ways; either you have more responsibility and more hours, or less responsibility and less hours.

The fact that you are trolling this particular thread, which is unmistakenly devoted to the "top 16," demonstrates that you are not as comfortable with your non-top 16 choice as you claim (or maybe believe yourself). You don't see me going to medical school blogs saying: "I could have gone to medical school, but law is better -- medical school takes more years to finish and you ultimately get paid less."

I, too, doubt the rigor of Harvard coursework. I'm not saying Yale is any better, but it's my impression that HLS kids spend a lot of their time getting high and coasting, with the knowledge that they'll get a job anywhere anyway (which was the point of your post).

Also, I have worked with people from various schools in various capacities. I have met idiots from Harvard and geniuses from University of Minnesota. That you did well on your LSAT and had good grades in undergrad does not actually mean you are made of gold. Don't flatter yourself.

Also, your I-went-to-Harvard-for-the-intellectual-rigor-not-the-prestige argument is bogus. In what capacity are you using that deep intellectual experience? Run-of-the-mill civil litigation is probably the easiest legal job there is. I doubt you are having debates about the finer points of the 4th amendment with your colleagues. Keep pushing the paper and stop posing as an intellectual.

Damn YLS '05, that was better than the Ultimate Warrior's promo for Wrestlemania VI when he threatened to assume control of and crash Hulk Hogan's plane into parts unknown

Which firm is "cooler," WLRK or W&C? Wow you are really all losers. Was wondering who spent time blogging on this stupid website.

By the way, whether you work for Vault ranked firm #1 or #1000, as long as you're a lawyer, you are and always will be the client's little BITCH.