I am done with this blog.

It's no great secret why -- many people need lawyers only on the worst days of their lives (being sued, getting divorced, maybe even bringing suit) and a majority of people have strict, internalized views of morality that do not allow them to find anything upright or noble in defending what they presume to be the dregs of humanity/big business. If you don't feel like every person deserves fair representation, of course you find defending child rapists unconscionable and vile.

"I am concerned that the American public now sees the average lawyer as being more like Denny Crane on “Boston Legal” and less like the heroic Atticus Finch of “To Kill a Mockingbird.”

That's because it's true.

We have a quota on immigrants that may legally arrive in our country every year, why not the same for lawyers?

"At the bottom of the list are car salesmen, HMO managers, insurance salesmen, advertising executives, stockbrokers, and then lawyers...."

Most lawyers deserved to be ranked this low on the prestige scale. Less than 1% of lawyers can be considered "elite" and between 2% to 5% are be altruists and/or bleeding heart liberal do gooders.

The rest are PI, Family, Criminal lawyers who, quite correctly, are less prestigious than your average used car salesman.

I imagine if the story had Atticus Finch charging Tom Robinson $500/hr it might make him a bit less heroic.

Why the picture of Dave Campo?

I think the perception that Atticus Finch is the thing we should be reaching for is a seriously flawed one.

2:09,

Yeah, PI lawyers may not be all that prestigious. But the good ones make more money in a day than you do all year long, so I don't think they care.

Douchebag.

2:17,

Atticus Finch was a 6th year associate?

Thank God Obama is a lawyer. I think his presidency will do a lot to improve the image of lawyers everywhere.

Not many people can afford to be Atticus Finch these days.

John Yoo, fugitive war criminal, J.D., has a few ideas about how to get to the bottom of this mystery.

2:22 = son/daughter of PI lawyer. Please define "the good ones." I am guessing that you mean the successful ones, which is about 1%. And they are the dirtiest sons of bitches you will ever meet (paging Dickie Scruggs & Co). They should be on the bottom of any list when it comes to "honesty" and "ethics."

The other 99% don't make more than people on this board. And they smell strange.

Echoing 2:25, thank Jeebus that UT-Austin's law school decisively rejected George W. when he applied. His acceptance would have surely spelled the end for the American legal profession's reputation. Of course, his torture justifying and liberty snatching lawyers, like John Yoo and Michael Chertoff, didn't exactly help the image of lawyers either.

The article raises a good point. We can start by closing down all of the T2 - T4 law schools. And then start shutting down schools from #50 and stop when the profession becomes somewhat respectible.

The problem is all of the sh*tty lawyers from the sh*tty schools. Eliminating the schools = elminating the sh*t. Who wants a lawyer with an LSAT below 165 anyways?

2:28,

No jackass, I mean the poors.

Of course I mean the successful ones. See my prior comment - "the good ones make more money in a day than you do all year long."

And learn to read, as I never said they were prestigious. Just rich beyond your wildest dreams.

Now go back to your doc review - unless you don't have any work to do because of the economy. In that event, I'd suggest you start packing your office up, as you'll be out the door soon enough.

I second your comment, 2:34! Because LSAT score is absolutely, positively the best indicator of how good of a laywer someone is going to be. Man, why didn't I think of that idea?

The ABA has let this profession destroy itself. Schools are churning out thousands more graduates than there are jobs.

To ensure good salaries that enable law grads to pay off their loans and live comfortably the ABA should make barriers to entry higher. (See the British Medical Asscoiation for details, where General Practice doctors working in socialised medicine make $200,000 a year). The BMA fights for its members...the ABA does nothing but churn out platitudes about "diversity" at big firms....much like the Boston Bar Assoc and Mass Bar Assoc I might add.

There are simply way too many lawyers. Example, in Mass there were about 25,000 lawyers in the 1960s.....now there are over 60,000.

Actually, 234, it is your elitist ass that makes everyone cringe when they think of lawyers. I think it is time to face the fact that there are d-bags that come from every law school. While I am a lawyer, who generally hates lawyers b/c of their arrogance, I will still defend the profession b/c there are many out there who are not as assinine as 234 is.

2:24, it was the Depression.

2:17.

i agree with 2:04, no one is ever happy to see their lawyer because well, why would you go if stuff wasnt going to hell?

Thanks for the shout-out, Rita!

This is so not cool. Lawyers were the least respected profession. WOW. ATTTL

If Atticus Finch were alive today, would he lean more toward sophisticated, cross-border transactional work or complex, bet-the-company litigation?

T5-->V10

The larger point is that even though people come see us when their life is going to hell, they don't think we help. We aren't the learned advisor who lends strength to our client or our society. We are d-bags who see clients as dollar signs and churn out motions rather than discussing emotions.

2:57, nice.

2:28 (2.09?), I love the idea of biglaw drones as the "ethical" "elite"

"I worry that the increasing reliance on technology and specialization have caused lawyers to lose the personal touch that used to characterize our profession. There is a rich heritage in our country of the lawyer as counselor – a knowledgeable person who gives advice and guidance. When we lose that personal relationship with our clients, we run the risk of becoming technicians instead."

BigLaw, anyone? Technician seems to sum it up quite nicely.

Nice title, lady--a cutting edge Ally McBeal reference really hits the nail on the head. People don't like lawyers because they wear short skirts and never eat.

If people paid attention to Enron, Bear Stearns and the Bush administration, they would hate MBAs more than JDs. Who's with me, America?

313...agreed, but I don't think the general populace disassociates stockbrokers with I-Bankers ... I think most people think of them as one in the same, and they are just as equally disliked as lawyers as the article states.

basically, unless you are a doctor, the general populace will hate you if you are a white collar worker. period.

3:26, I don't know... I'm not liking doctors too much in recent years. Similar to public's perception of lawyers, MD profession seems to be evolving to "love to hate until you need 'em".

I agree with 3:26. Unless it's a truly altruistic line of work, jealously will prevail. When people have to hire a lawyer, it clearly illustrates that the lawyer's time is worth much more than their own. Throw in the fact that most lawyers ordinary individuals deal with are hacks doing wills, divorces, or real estate and the bitterness is pretty understandable.

i hate any profession that tries to sell me stuff.

2:34 is a complete d-bag. Maybe s/he has already forgotten about: Spitzer (H), AGAG (H), Yoo (Y), Scooter Libby (C), Mike Nifong (UNC), F. Lee Bailey (BU) and I'm sure there are more I'm forgetting. Yeah, we should really close down all but the top schools because of the criminals they're churning out.

When are people like you going to realize that top schools and money alone don't make a person ethical, respected, a good lawyer or a good person in general? Get a clue!

What is this idiot thinking? Try "Lowering the Bar: Lawyer Jokes and Legal Culture": lawyers have always been hated, and for the same reasons as we are now.

The only difference in the past has been our relative economic power: now, we're barely scraping by, nobody's afraid of us. That's reserved for hedge fund managers.

"Similar to public's perception of lawyers, MD profession seems to be evolving to 'love to hate until you need 'em.'"

This is in keeping with the general evolution of the American--nay, Western--public into a bunch of snot-nosed, self-entitled ingrates.

1) I am a law student currently attending a Tier 2 school who secured a summer associateship at a Chicago "BigLaw" firm. I attended a public high school (gasp! the horror) AND a public university (mais, c'est impossible!).

The elitist comments on this site amusing. You folks really just like to hear yourself talk, don't you?

The degree to which your sense of self-worth and accomplishment is tied up in the size of your law school's endowment or some arbitrary USNWR ranking is pathetic.

Have any of you ever spoken to a real attorney before? Any lawyer worth his salt (or his billable hour rate) will tell you that after you pass the bar, it's not about the diploma in your little office, it's about the work you do and the cases you win.

The first time most of you will learn that less will be when you get your ass handed to you by the likes of me in court.

Your "Top 14" world is an illusion.

2) People hate one profession more than law: telemarketing. That I think we can all agree on.

You are the senior litigating partner of one of the largest, most respected law firms in the world. You are a legend!

Arthur Edens: I'm an accomplice!

You're a manic-depressive!

Arthur Edens: I am Shiva, the god of death

I think we can all agree that 4:27 is a d-bag and that his/her ego (with no real-world experience to back it) is the real reason lawyers are hated.

4:33- You're allowed to say douchebag. I got your mom's permission.

1) Real world experience can be had prior to graduation in the form of externships and summer employment.

2) Could you please point out what, if anything, in my comment indicates that my ego is inflated?

@2:34:

I went to public high school, public university, and T3 law school. Did well in law school and have clerked for a circuit and a district judge, and now work at V5 firm in NYC. So, in the end, your little ivy league degree didn't get you anything special, and while you were studying and hanging out with other nerds in HS, college, and law school, I was having fun banging hot women.

Sucker.

Guys in my [public] high school used to beat up 4:27 all the time. It was no big deal.

Dr. Gonzo/ 5:31/ Pederast:

Girls in my [private school] Torts class used to rag on you for having halitosis.

For more on why Western society is going to hell in a handbasket and why lawyers in particular suck... read "The Future of Freedom" by Fareed Zakaria

P.S. 2:34 is clearly some pimply goof who just got a 166 on his LSAT and thinks the world is his oyster... until he gets to his Tier one but not T14 school, finishes in the bottom third of his class, and doesn't get a job.

The only question that matters is this: what does Kash think of us lawyers.

Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer Syndrome!

Phil Hartman on SNL, circa 1992.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3939962199551852407

Geez, we're not respected? This is news?

Shakespeare wrote "Kill all the lawyers."

When the colony of Georgia was founded, they banned all lawyers.

Please. Who cares if we're respected? I didn't get into this profession for respect.

"The first thing we do," said the character in Shakespeare's Henry VI, is "kill all the lawyers."

Contrary to popular belief, the proposal was not designed to restore sanity to commercial life.

Rather, it was intended to eliminate those who might stand in the way of a contemplated revolution -- thus underscoring the important role that lawyers can play in society.

Any non-lawyer who has worked at a big law firm for any period of time can tell you that most lawyers are condescending jerk-offs. They think if you didn't go to law school, you are not as smart as them. They tend to be prick-i-er to people as they go down the ladder (e.g., they're nicer to their secretarires than they are to people in the mailroom) and MUCH nicer as they manage up - the biggest jerks (to everyone else) being the nicest to the nearest partner.

So, is this any surprise?

Shakespeare put lawyer jokes within many other works. Since you obviously googled your response, here's a link you no doubt ran across also.

http://www.spectacle.org/797/finkel.html

It's rather obvious that Shakespeare intended it to be a joke with his audience.

Honestly, for the good of the profession, the idiots who enter law school by taking on 200k in debt with no chance of ever recouping, and society as a whole, we should close about 50% of the law schools currently in service.

Honestly, it would be a great form of self-paternalism. Outside of the T14, you are DELUDING yourself if you think that you're going to be able to suddenly or easily 'live the life' by pulling in low-mid six figures in your 20s working in a large city. It's not going to happen, at least easily.

By the time you're looking at T3 to T4 law schools, it's gone beyond 'deluding' and 'not easy' to practically criminal fraud. Swaths of people every year are being suckered into a fantasy of success and prestige that is NOT going to manifest itself. This is to say nothing of the fact that we are allowing the profession to be flooded with lower-intelligence individuals.

Fyi, I call bullshit on 90% of the 'oh he wasn't that smart and he didn't go to a great school but he's become a great lawyer' stories. Look, no doubt they exist and I give them my respect and admiration. But for most of those, it is a bunch of bullshit. (Particularly in this day and age when you can more or less secure open financing to attend a great law school regardless of your socioeconomic status, assuming you have the intellectual chops)

The legal profession should, without question, engage in an active campaign to align themselves with the quality, consistency, and public image of the medical profession in terms of how 'lawyers' are viewed. Pretty much across the board, if someone says 'oh, he's a doctor' you think - an intelligent man or woman. The same thing should be true for the legal profession.

Btw, fuck the ABA. They're contributorily negligent for this mess.

People hate lawyers for some fairly basic reasons
After telling a story for 45 minutes, the only response is Yeah? But can you payme?
If an attorney screws up a case the client is held accountable.
If a client reports an attorney for malfeasance the state bars rarely do anything. Since most are paid from active membership dues, it does not pay to take their food from your own mouth. So much for self-regulation
In an effort to preserve a constant pool of employment the legal profession has blocked most people from their rightful access to the courts.
The profession itself robs from its own. Price of education, forced membership in an association that gives you an annual dinner or lunch. Outrageous costs of continued education. The profession itself is feeding off its membership. Seems logical that the rest of the fish would feed off their clients.
Attorneys rarely hear their clients and represent what they want rather than their client. Attorneys forget that they are the employee.
It makes no sense to hire someone to make an argument that you have to train them in and then pay for the pleasure.
The only reason court rules are so complicated is because the legal profession was attempting to discourage public access Pro Se.
It appears to be a profession for someone with no special talent
AND, we have to get a judges from somewhere

I live in Illinois. It is ironic that this blog is about IL Supreme Court Justice Rita B. Garman and the image of the legal profession or lawyers. In our state of IL there has been a lot of controversy about Justice Rita Garman and particularly her involvement in the alleged political appointment of judges. Judges can not be removed by recall in IL. Judges don’t run for re-election; instead Judges only have to run for “retention” in IL. In essence they run against themselves as no one opposes them in the retention or quasi re-election. So the public has no way to get rid of a bad judge. I think we all agree that some in our profession should not be judges for the sake of politics. At the end of the day bad judges are bad for all practicing lawyers. Some of us will benefit from a political connection but it kills integrity and the reputation of lawyers in general. Here in IL, there has been a running storm of public outrage and criticism over two judges who in my opinion should have never been appointed to the bench. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Illinois State Judge MITCHELL K. SHICK and Judge ALBERT G. WEBBER IV were both reportedly appointed by recommendation of Rita Garman. If you Google Rita Garman and these judges you will see what I mean. Clearly something is wrong. With the internet, the people who think they have been put upon by some lawyer or judge suddenly have a voice. Screw over enough people and that voice gets loud. Besides, I love my Wife and Son who just happen to be lawyers.

Coles County Illinois Circuit Judge Mitchell K. Shick has been caught having sex with a subordinate at the Coles County courthouse during work. Mitchell Shick’s wife Deanna has reportedly kicked Shick out of his house and he is now living in an apartment. Now members of the Coles County community are debating Judge Mitchell Shick’s latest indiscretions while at least one of Shicks five children tries to defend his father’s actions. This is not the first time a family member has tried to defend Mitchell Shick. It’s probably his son Andrew. How sad. If we can not look to judges for the truth and more importantly honesty where do we look? Mitchell Shick is a low down liar and acts like a common thug. He should have never been appointed to the bench. And that just shows what happens when politics are more important than merit and qualifications when judges are selected. That old wrinkled up bag Rita Garman appointed Mitchell Shick when there were many more qualified and honest candidates available. Mitchell Shick screwing some woman on his job at the courthouse is certainly of concern to the public. Where I work anyone would instantly lose their job for doing that (Having Sex). This is NOT just a “family matter”. Rita Garman’s Republican Goons. This collection of partisan Bigoted and crooked A-holes are now in our courts judging us. Mitchell Shick, Albert G Webber IV, Chris Freeze and other were all appointed by Rita Garman. They are all terrible judges by any reasonable standard. Mitchell Shick should be thrown out of the people’s office. We all need a tool to remove these cancers for our court system.