The student loan industry is crushing the dreams and creativity of a generation and relegating today's youth to corporate enslavement.

I passed on the Ivy knowing full well that clerking and working at a couple of "top" firms would never be an option. Instead, I bit at a non-T14 that paid for 2/3 of my education. I still made it to Biglaw and my debt is minimal.

Do I regret my decision? Occasionally, particularly when all of my colleagues are from HLS. But when I hear about "hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt," I am reminded that I made a rational - perhaps the *most* rational decision of all of us.

Aspiring law students: go to the best school you can for the least money -- the rest will fall into place.

at 10:41,

my credit card company actually gives me a lower rate than my student loans. I don't understand finance much, but that seems crazy to me.

10:44--It worked out well for you--but I would love to hear from the people that went after the scholarships and were not so fortunate to land biglaw--

It is a risky move to jump outside of the T-14 for a scholarship in my opinion

Remember when ATL posted some of those... what are they called ... oh yeah, stories? I guess a constant stream of market research polls for Lateral Link is just as good.

Word of advice for law students heading to well-paying firms this summer - don't blow all the money you make. Save as much as you can and use that for expenses next year, and take out less in loans. You'll be glad you did later.

Don't go to law school, period.

11:00 is right. I asved most of my 2L summer earnings and paid for my third year of law school with the rest. After 2.5 years of working I'm down to only 65K in federal loan debt.

I never understood the people in law school who would go out big every weekend, bottle service, etc. or live in a luxury apartment in the best neighborhood. They didn't seem to get that it was only borrowed money...

I'd have to agree with 10:55. I recently had a family friend ask if he should apply to a "safety" school. My first question was whether he wanted to end up in biglaw. When he said yes, my quick answer was no. As a person who went to a low-end tier 1 school, graduated at the top of her class and made it to biglaw (after a couple of clerkships), I know that most people who went to my school weren't so lucky. No question -- the debt sucks. But if you know biglaw is the place you want to be, the safest path is to shoot as high as you can. To a certain extent, grades will always be arbitrary; I wouldn't have ever bet on graduating in the top 5% of my class, even if that is where I ended up.

My law school loans: $130K
Wife's law school loans: $120K
Wife's undergrad/grad loans: $100K
Mortgage: $360K
Future kids: $$$$$$$

Hello BigLaw, here I come.

10:55 - I went the other route, going to a TTT b/c they offered me $. I've graduated now with no debt, and am now at a decent regional firm actually keeping some of the money I earn. Only a handful of people from my school went to BigLaw, but it wouldn't have been impossible if that's what I'd chosen to pursue.

The one thing that passing up on a top school has cost me seems to be the chance to break into legal academia. If you have no interest in that, then I don't think it's such a huge sacrifice to give up the name degree and debt that comes with it.

Overall, 11:01 has provided the "most right" answer.

10:44(2) - they may give you a lower rate, but the balance transfer fees will kill you. Recalculate after that and see what the total cost of debt will be.

terrible survey. the student loan categories are all wrong. there should be only a couple of choices below $100k, with the bulk in the $100k to $200k range. everyone i know, except for the few who went to public law schools, are all north of 100k in debt.

11:11 hit it right on the nose.

not to be a suzy sunshine here, but at least this recession has brought us declining loan interest rates.

my private loans were at 8.00% in December, dropped to 7.25% on Jan. 1, and then down to 5.75% on Apr. 1. between me and my wife (and our $165k of non-consolidated private loans), that saves a lot of $$ each month.

11:11--"only a handful of people"--is the exact reason why you should go to the better school. I would never bank my future career on the sentence "it wouldn't have been impossible . . . ."

I went to a TTTT for free, but I have 60k in UG debt. I got Biglaw and I am starting in the fall. Ill keep a lot of my salary as well...

It feels really bad to have to click the highest debt option :(

I graduated in 2000 with $180,000 in student loan debts.

I'm now a seventh year associate in a big law firm with a student loan debt of $124,000.

Eat that, suckas.

Survey is arbitrary - i dont have a mortgage, but i still pay rent!

Well said 11:08. Definitely aim as high as you can (either T14 or Tregional school). Remember not everyone in a T14 below school can graduate at the top of the class.

Paying off loans sucks, but with good financial planning, it can be over within five-seven years (assuming you make more than minimal monthly payments).

Also, avoid private loans, unless you dont have a choice - I know i didnt.

And only take the minimal amount of loan! Its not really free money since you have to pay it back (with interest)

To: 10:55, 11:08:

You make great points that I think is folded into my general nugget of advice: (assuming you are dead set on going to law school), go to the best school you can for the least money. If it's Harvard for 40K a year vs. Fordham for 20K, the 20K differential may not - actually, *will not* compensate for the disparity in prestige and pure name power. However, if you're deciding between Fordham for 40K and Brooklyn Law for free, it may be worth giving some thought to Brooklyn Law.

No question, it's a gamble. Law school isn't for everyone, and very, very smart people can very easily do poorly if they don't know how to perform well on finals (I'm sure we've all seen many). But life is about gambles, and the question here isn't "Should you go to Harvard or Suffolk?" (laughable no-brainer) it's "Do you go for the guarantee/lock but get 'locked' into the profession until that debt is paid off, or do you take a risk at a lesser school and see what happens?" I would not want to make the decision again, but I think there's something to be said for those who get into Harvard, Yale, etc., and willingly choose to go to lower-ranked schools: they're probably (and forgive me if this sounds elitist, it's not my intent) at least slightly more gifted/better prepared to do well at any law school than those who could not, under any circumstances, get into top schools.

(Sorry if that was rambly.)

I went to a TTT for money--will graduate with about 30k in loans and will be doing biglaw, but I regret not going to a better school or transferring after my first year--I am not complaining, because I've got it much better than most people at my school, but the name of the law school alone will open more doors for someone not only early on, but later on in your career.

My law school loans: $150K
Wife's PhD school loans: $100K
My undergrad/grad loans: $15K
Mortgage: $430K
And, we had three kids while in law and PhD school. Thank heaven last year's raise made it to some of the smaller markets!

Now accepting donations

This survey should have had 100-150, 150-200, 200-300, and 300+. I have between 150-200 and know people that have over 300K when you add their UG debt to law school. The only reason I chose the high debt load for law school is because I had no debt from UG. If I had 150 from UG I would have a TTT diploma on my wall in my office.

11:24 - Yep, that's my only regret as well. It's nice being in virtually zero debt (mortgage notwithstanding), but it sucks to think that most judges won't give my resume a second look (hahha, maybe not even a first) for my lack of prestige (never mind the grades, experience, etc.). Ah well, c'est la vie.

The problem with the survey is it asks for the current balance. My student loans are under $50,000 now but they were over $100,000 when I graduated in 2002. Even though they are more manageable now, I'm still working in biglaw until I pay them off.

It is a risky move to jump outside of the T-14 for a scholarship in my opinion

Only if you have brainwashed into believing that the only place to practice law is a v10 sweatshop.

11:29, how much do you pay a month in repayment?

I have $190K in debt (all law school and post-grad) and am on the level repayment plan. I keep thinking of doing extended repayment, but I want to pay as little interest as possible, while still trying to keep my head above water.

Do people have thoughts on choosing level, graduated, or extended payment plans? Can you change plans more than once?

do people recommend paying off private or federal loan first? and how much more do you usually pay a month over the minimum amount? Thanks!

You pay off the debt with the highest interest rate first which is usually, but not always, the private loans.

It's so ironic that you T14ers warn about lower ranked schools because you "may not do well."

I think it's funny that so many T14 students are scared of TTT. Does it threaten you that I was confident and smart enough to accept a T2 school with NO debt, have the number one liberal arts undergrad on my resume and have a biglaw job waiting for me?

Yes, I'm threatened.

Tier Three
Full Ride
900 Month Rent
No loans
225k all mine...and the govt's too....
I'll quit when I am bored with Biglaw

I went to a lower tier 1 school because I received a full scholarship. Now I am at biglaw. I don’t have a penny in debt. I clearly made the right decision. However, it was not easy getting into biglaw, and lots of my friends didn’t get in, so it is not the right decision for everyone.

@11:45 -- could you explain what you mean by "ironic"? I'm just another one of the T14 sheeple, so I don't understand how your anecdote buttresses your usage of the word.

I owe
I owe
So off to resolve ambiguity in my clients' favor I go

Da-da-da, da-dum, da-da-da, da-dum

I owe
I owe, I owe, I owe

Tier 2 school on full scholarship
5th year associate at regional firm
4000 square foot house
2008 Corvette Z06

AND...WAIT FOR IT....$0 debt

enjoy working for the rest of your life to pay off that prestige, idiots

11:45,

Huh? What? Don't fool yourself. No one is scared of TTT. They're only trying to look out for those who might otherwise find themselves in a bad situation. See Loyola 2L. Look, I admit to being a mediocre law student, primarily because I've been working full-time. However, even with my mediocre record, I still have a job lined up paying me $145K. If I hadn't gone to a T-14, I'd probably still be wondering how I was going to pay my loans and avoid foreclosure on my house. If you want to roll the dice, that's on you, but when the phone rings at 3:00am...oops, wrong forum.

People who went to sub-T14s, have tons of debt and don't work in biglaw don't read ATL. We'll just hear about the few % who made it big and need to tell the world. I think they shut off L2L's internet when he couldn't pay the billz.

Either go to a T14 or a state school with in-state tuition. A random law school just isn't worth the risk. And when I say state school I mean somewhere in the Midwest, not Buffalo.

11:45. That's a stupid comment. Grades in law school are beyond arbitrary. I had a 4.0 in undergrad (decent school) with a difficult major and multiple minors. I had my pick of the litter in law schools. I decided to go to a 2nd tier school so as not to accrue debt. Suffice to say that for the first 2.5 years of law school I had wished I went T14. I received several less than stellar grades (1st year), for reasons that are unclear to me to this day. Eventually I ended up in biglaw (found job as a 3L), but only after doing every single externship and job known to man, and receiving nothing but stellar grades after the few bad ones (still don't know what made the differece - my guess: nothing! law school is arbitrary). I know full well that just as I ended getting biglaw, I may have also missed it. T14 is an investment, TTT or even 2nd Tier are a gamble.

11:59

Ohh, A corvette!

12:01,

Ohhh, the subway!

And if you do have a car, which I doubt, unless it's an Enzo Ferarri, it sure as hell isn't faster than my vette.

Go back to your doc review.

The issue here is gamble vs. investment. If you take a gamble and win, the returns could be huge and immediate (though the likelihood of losing is greater). If you choose to make an investment, you won't see returns for a very long time, and need to be able to commit to your investment (i.e., stay in the field).

11:59,

Guys in my HICH SCHOOL used to brag about how fast their car could go.

Did you get a free pair of wraparound Oakleys with that 'Vette? Or did you go for the "Calvin Pissing" decal instead?

11:21--

Are you laughing or crying?

12:06 is correct. I am tired of people claiming that they made the correct decision in hindsight.

If you actually like to drive, those Z06's are about as good a deal as you're gonna find. Unless you don't mind driving around in a shoebox-sized Lotus.

However, if you choose your ride based on what will most efficiently save you the time of leaning out the window to tell each and every driver on the road that you make six figures, the Vette probably isn't the way to go.

Here's the thing: Say you don't go to a top school and you pay very little money in tuition. You may not do well enough academically and, horror of horrors, you may get shut out of BIGLAW. Well, you don't NEED to be in BIGLAW if you don't have a ton of debt. Your legal career is a long one and you'd have the freedom to start at the DA's office or doing something similar where you're actually in court and actually a lawyer and then move on. Those jobs, outside of Human Rights Watch, the Federal Defenders, etc., generally aren't as prestige-obsessed as BIGLAW. On the one hand, going to a top school gives you the freedom of having (relatively speaking) your pick of jobs. Having very little debt gives you the freedom to not have to make tons of money right out of the gate.

I love the people who "know" they want a BIGLAW career. Make no mistake, for the vast majority of associates it is a shit job with shit hours and very little preparation for actually representing somebody (at least for litigators). The prestige factor is essentially the only thing the gig has going for it.

I went to a T10 school, make good money and will likely (no jinx) make P in the next cycle. Would I trade it all in for a 9 to 5 with good benefits and decent pay? Yup. Can I? Nope.

My neighbor has the same McMansion that I have. He is a plumber. We are both in the "service" industry. The only difference is - he knew well enough to say to hell with "prestige."

My degree opened doors that shut right behind me. I rattle my gilded cage occassionally, but then I resign myself to the fact that I voluntarily signed up to be in this "exclusive" club.

At least there is still booze...

12:16 - and the paycheck. Loans or not.

Aldridge - can you go in house somewhere? That might not be 9-5, but it seems somewhat close.

hahahahahhahaha, corvette. idiot.

11:59 "TTT grad" says, "Tier 2 school on full scholarship
5th year associate at regional firm
4000 square foot house
2008 Corvette Z06

AND...WAIT FOR IT....$0 debt

enjoy working for the rest of your life to pay off that prestige, idiots"

Sorry about your penis.

As a summer who will likely be no offered because of the economy, it really annoys me to hear about all of you who didn't get fucked with bad timing. I will graduate jobless with 50k in debt. At least you guys had a few good years of earnings.

I lucked out in a gigantic way and I am happy to share...

dreadful high school grades (maybe a 2.5);
worse SAT score (taken with a stinging hangover -- sub 1200);
state university with open admission;
abysmal grades (until last semester when I became terrified of the thought of working in a bar forever and earned a 4.0);
mind-numbing but character-building work for two years;
160 LSAT;
chilly welcome to 2nd tier state law school;
law review (editorial post);
dual JD/MBA with honors;
local district court clerkship (obtained through faculty connection at law school);
biglaw NYC (where I'm now a fourth-year earning $215k);
law/grad school debt: $65k;
underdgrad debt: $18k.

These days, I admit to being a little jealous of the prestigious degrees held by most of my colleagues. However, I do not envy their enormous debt.

I get a kick out of the fact that most people underestimate me at first. And I'm always pleased by enthusiasm of their later praise of my work. (Like it’s such a fucking surprise that I’m not retarded because I didn’t attend an Ivy.)

I also admit to being jealous of that 4,000 square foot house Mr. Corvette wrote about. I hate my shit-hole apartment (but I pay way less rent than most of the idiots I work with, who keep a $4,000 a month apartment that they leave empty 85% of the time).

I went to a good public law school (UGA) with a strong regional reputation, and ranked somewhere in high 20s/law 30s USNWR. I graduated with about 25K in debt at 3.6% interest.

I am at BIGLAW in ATL, and the top 25% of the class at decent regional schools (like UGA) can swing it in ATL. It would obviously be more difficult to try to go to DC or NY, but most people who go to UGA aren't interested in going to DC or NY.

I occasionally get annoyed at the school snobbery at BIGLAW, and there are drawbacks for not having gone to an IVY or Duke. On balance, for me (from Georgia not interested in leaving and may want to jump into state politics), however, UGA was the way to go.

I don't think generalizations are helpful, and I think appropriate law school choices depend on the individual.

@11:59(1) - how did you pay off your house and car in 5 years? Even on a biglaw salary, that has to be tough.

I went to a public law school and paid off all of my loans during fed. clerkship. I have no credit card debt.

12:57

Eat a lot of ramen noodles and learn to live in a dog house or, if you prefer, an efficiency in a crappy part of town.

12:11

Crying of course. I'm up to my eyeballs in debt. Can't make anything beyond the minimum payment on the loans because dear wifey makes a habit of shopping daily ("But it's on sale!"). On the other hand, she does make a good show when having dinners with the partners.

11:11 is right about legal academia careers being narrowed by your law school... but the neat exception is that you can teach at your alma mater. My law school would be a blast to adjunct at!

I often wondering:
Out of the group of law students {have debt}:

* what percentage actually doesn't want to work in big law, and only does it to manage debt repayment
* what percentage really is in it for the $$$ period, and makes opportunistic use of the fact that they are saddled with debt to make themsleves appear less shallow?

Going in to law school, I would have said something like 90/10. Now ... not so sure. Do you ever see it in their eyes? The money grubbers who are too ashamed to admit it?

That second group ... we all know what the response will be in 5 years -- oh, my debt's paid off, but I've made it this far.

Then they'll take on more debt (kids, house, cars, etc.) to justify their decision to stay. Pay that off, then:

"But I've made partner". Etc. A self-perpetuating cycle of self-deception and false-projection?

Question: HYS with full debt load or T14 on full scholarship, limited big law aspirations (no NYC)?

Difficult decision at the time, answer is far from clear even now.

I graduated from UG with zero debt, went to mid-tier 1 public law school where I received in-state tuition and a small scholarship. I still graduated from law school with about $60K in debt.

I'm working at a V10 right now in DC, but I'm the only one from my law school that I know of who accomplished that. I was on law review (ed board) and in the top 5% of my class.

I think a few others from my class got V10 jobs in NYC, but that's the extent of it. Most people from my school that wanted biglaw (read V100) only got it if they were in the top 25% of the class and on a journal.

2:25, what did you end up doing?

What's the deal with all the Biglaw haters? If I say I enjoy my job (DC Biglaw) it must be because (1) I'm lying or (2) I'm money-grubbing, opportunistic, shallow, and self-deceiving?

How about this? I like the work, have managed a work-life balance, don't mind the hours the job requires, and, yes, enjoy the income.

If it matters, I went to a tier 2 state law school out west and managed a biglaw job after a COA clerkship (obtained through school connections). I have no school debt, nor mortgage (yet), no car payments, and no kids (yet). I just do this because I like the job.

The vast majority of the grads from my law school work in regional and local firms, have more free time than I do, but do work that would drive me crazy with boredom.

Sometimes it is a choice, and your "analysis" doesn't leave room for that.

4:37: I don't think anybody's seriously contending that everybody in BIGLAW hates his or her job (though my experience in BIGLAW showed that the vast majority of my colleagues did). I think the issue is people being so confident they'll love BIGLAW with very little sense of what the job entails for many (not all, as in your case) associates.

you are a fool if you don't spend your summer cash on hookers and blow. seriously, get used to it, because that's what your future holds at biglaw. Then again, I always confuse hookers and student loans, since both get me fucked. zing!