Jersey Boys (and Girls) Do Alright for Themselves
Time for a shout-out to this writer's home state. Over in New York, Biglaw lawyers tend to look down upon their cousins across the river. Dismissive jokes about "Jersey firms" are commonplace.
But large-firm lawyers in New Jersey are doing just fine, thank you very much. From a tipster:
As a Jersey guy, you may find this interesting: According to the NJ Law Journal, Lowenstein Sandler just became the first NJ firm with profits per partner in the seven figures: $1,102,700. Average compensation per partner is not far behind, at $977,500.
And it's not just Lowenstein Sandler that had a good year. Although New Jersey firms slowed their hiring and trimmed equity partner ranks in 2007, showing signs of being affected by the dire economic times, they still did pretty well. From the New Jersey Law Journal (subscription):
Growth in total revenues and net profits [among the New Jersey Top 20 firms] thus slowed in 2007. Revenue rose by 7.67 percent to $1.53 billion from $1.42 billion in 2006, compared with a 9.6 percent hike in last year's survey.Profit growth was even slower, up only 5.62 percent to $519.3 million from $491.6 million, compared with a 9.9 percent bump the prior year.
When fewer lawyers produce more revenue, it means each is working harder. Indeed, revenue per lawyer showed a pronounced spike: up 5 percent to $517,650, more than three times the 1.4 percent rise to $493,000 reported last year.
Likewise, since there were fewer equity partners sharing the bottom line, profits per partner growth enjoyed an eight-fold increase, rising 6.62 percent to $594,100, compared with a sluggish 0.8 percent to $557,200 in last year's survey.
By New York standards, PPP of $600K is small potatoes. But it's still a handsome income -- and grows more appealing if the hours, cost of living, taxes, and partnership prospects are better over in Jersey. [FN1]
Time for New Yorkers to think about jumping to the other side of the Hudson? Or time for another round of pay raises for Garden State associates?
[FN1] These matters are open to debate, of course. Some New Jersey firms, such as the super-profitable Lowenstein, have reputations as sweatshops for demanding a lot of their associates.
Streamlining for Austere Times [New Jersey Law Journal (subscription)]
(117) Comments
First
by First Again
So what? Jersey is a shit hole.
Lat, what's the point of quoting part of an article and linking to a site that requires a subscription to read the rest? Smells like advertising for NJLJ.
I think that should be profits per Seton Hall or Rutgers grad, because no one else wants to work in NJ.
We would appreciate it if you elitist New Yorker Assholes would stay on your side of the Hudson. Thanks.
most large NJ firms are sweatshops and suffer from penis envy..
I believe there should be a policy here that if you are going to call Jersey a "shit hole", "armpit of the country", or some other hackjob name, you need to disclose where exactly you are posting from.
In other words, fly over states, Florida and Texas posters should look around a bit before they start firing off a post.
Jersey firms are great, if you want to work just as hard as in BigLaw while making 20k less and expose yourself to hilarious salary compression.
The way these NJ firms sell themselves as 'lifestyle' firms is really hilarious.
10:18,
Can you clarify? I am a 4th year at a big firm in NY but live in NJ (you know, kids). Lately, I have been tempted, through recruiters, by that "lifestyle" siren song. Can you tell me for what firms this is false advertising? I know Lowenstein is a tough place but was wondering if you could share any rumors of the other big Jersey firms, like McCarter, Gibbons? Thanks for any info.
10:18,
Can you clarify? I am a 4th year at a big firm in NY but live in NJ (you know, kids). Lately, I have been tempted, through recruiters, by that "lifestyle" siren song. Can you tell me for what firms this is false advertising? I know Lowenstein is a tough place but was wondering if you could share any rumors of the other big Jersey firms, like McCarter, Gibbons? Thanks for any info.
IROC-Z, IROC-Z, I come from New Jersey
10:15 -
Yes, Florida is a terrible place to live...if you hate sunshine, warm weather, and hot women. So you are right, NJ is probably perfect for you and the women with mustaches.
New Jersey is an armpit. Full disclosure, I live in Hempstead. Long Island is 10 times better than Jersey.
10:41: Hempstead is the armpit of Long Is., which of course is the armpit of NY. You've got no business talking trash to Jersey.
10:41(2) - I made a few corrections to your post. See below.
"New Jersey is an armpit. Full disclosure, I am a douche. Long Island is 10 times better than Baghdad."
Gibbons will have you working on such cutting edge matters as finding trial binders, drafting transmittal letters and agonizing over boilerplate agreements... Its really elite cutting edge stuff- Ask them- they'll tell you.
Hey 10:45 - Hempstead is far from the armpit of LI, you ever been to Rockaway? You've clearly never been to Hempstead, so zip it. The only time I go to Jersey is to watch the Jets. Other than that, if Jersey fell off the face of the earth, I don't think anyone would notice or care except for the TTTers who live or work in Jersey. SeTTTon Hall should be closed and sold for scrap.
Go Hofstra.
sorry about your penis 10:58
NJ smells bad. Yuck.
From,
Brooklyn Girl
D'Jais in Belmar is filled with Brooklyn sluts-
HofstrsMagna: You graduated magna cum laude from Hofstra Law? Seriously? That's pretty sweet man; I would advertise that too. If there's anybody that should talk down to others, it's definitely you. Keep living the life my man!
Lowenstein is a slave ship
Florida boasts about sunshine in the same way a hooker boasts about her new high heels.
In a perfect world, that is something to commend and to possibly be attracted to, but in reality, they are attached to fetid, diseased, disgusting entities.
Enjoying representing Orlando natives in Disney related slip and falls.
Does anyone know anything about McElroy, Deutsch, Mulvaney & Carpenter? Specifically, the Morristown office?
HofstraMagna: Are you serious with the link on your ATL profile? (http://law.hofstra.edu/NewsAndEvents/PressReleases/pressreleases_20080403.html)
You're bragging that Hofstra has "proudly rejoined" the USN top 100?
You haters, like most people outside of NJ, are ignorant that NJ is really three states - North, Central and South. Central Jersey is nothing like the others, and has some pretty nice areas. There's still undeveloped, picturesque land, and very few girls have mustaches.
"The only time I go to Jersey is to watch the Jets."
ah...that explains a lot.
11:06 - - Absolutely true. Ramming speed at all times.
Brooklyn Girl,
Please don't let me see you "down the shore" this summer. Go to Rockaway instead of Belmar or Pt. Pleasant and enjoy.
I love NJ enough that I interviewed there after my 1L year at GULC. However, the prospect of commuting to a corporate park to do the same quantity of work as I would elsewhere, to get paid $20k less (plus bonus), made me ultimately choose another market.
If I truly thought the "lifestyle" gap was that large, my decision would have been different.
Why are you guys hating on Hofstra? This thread is about Jersey and how terrible it is, not Hofstra. Hofstra is tied for third with Fordham in terms of best law schools in the NYC area, just behind NYU and Columbia, so yes, I'm proud to represent the Hofstra Pride.
I am a second year associate at Gibbons. Usually get in around 8 and leave around 6. Rare to work weekends unless something really pressing comes up. I make over 200k a year and live in a nice house in Somerset County.
Oh and "Brooklyn Girl," I think you should take a shower because your Gowanus smells.
11:17: You bashed Seton Hall but Seton Hall is ranked in the 60s; Hofstra is #99. I'm a bit confused...but then again, you graduated magna cum laude, so you're obviously smart enough to have figured something out that I didn't.
Riker Danzig in Morristown pays well, solid year end bonuses and Morristown is a nice place to work.
Hofstara dude, why do you have some rodent looking guy at a sports bar in your avatar?
2nd years at Gibbons do not make 200K- Thanks for playing
11:26 -- Wrong
Hey 11:25 - cool it. That's Wayne Chrebet. When he retired, he was 2nd in all-time receptions for the Jets. He's also a Hofstra grad, like me. I have 3 of his jerseys and I wear one of them at least once a week. He's one of the most prolific receivers in the history of the NFL.
I'm sorry - there's NO way Hofstra is on par with Fordham. Brooklyn (#63), Cardozo (#55), and even St. John's (#88) are superior to Hofstra - and not just in the rankings.
I can't tell whether or not 11:30 is serious, but I bet that he is. Sad.
Gibbons "litigators" are great at preparing trial binders and other assorted papershuffling. Its emplyment law defense group (or at least the group's clients) have been taking ass kickings from Juries lately
Thanks, man. I thought it was David Hasselhofstra.
Even if you think you might eventually want to to work in NJ, don't summer at a NJ firm. The most lavish lunches they will spring for will be at chain restaurants in strip malls once a month. You will be made to drive all over the state to do hard-copy document review or research titles/records. The firms are very stingy with Westlaw. Most of the associates are bitter because they do unglamorous work for (relatively) shitty pay and still live with their parents.
Whats a gowanus? Is it dangerous?
10:25-
I don't really have any specifics. Riker Danzig in Morristown and K&L Gates in Newark are both pretty good firms lifestyle-wise, but McCarter, Lowenstein, Sills Cummis, and Herrick are all pretty much sweatshops.
I don't have any specific numbers like "you will have to bill 2200 hours" but I've heard from friends of mine from law school who are now at these firms (I went to a jersey school, so there is a pretty large sample size) that their lifestyles are not that much different from mine (in BigLaw).
Riker Danzig and K&L Gates also have hilarious salary compression and nonexistant bonuses -- you will not be making 170k until you make partner.
NJ is nasty. Period. Doesn't matter if the profits were 2 mil per partner; they live and work in Jersey. Can't get worse than that. I served in Baghdad, and I'll take Baghdad (or any city in Iraq) over Jersey.
Anyone have info about wokring in Latham's NJ office?
2nd year at Gibbons making $200K is bull.
"Riker Danzig in Morristown pays well, solid year end bonuses and Morristown is a nice place to work."
Obviously posted by a Riker partner or recruiting staff member. The truth:
1. They do not pay well at all (near bottom of "big" NJ firms for first years, and compression is crazy).
2. Bonus is stupid. It is not paid until you reach 2100 hours, and then is only $10K. Truly a joke.
3. Morristown is ok, I guess. Good bars and ass.
First years at Gibbons make $125k. That $75k raise the second year, however, really sets the firm apart.
New Jersey's law firms are the bacteria that thrive in armpit sweat, swamplands, and garbage dumps:
McCarter & English--oldest firm in the state; full of stodgy old men. Some people lateral out there from NY Biglaw but are still miserable. Runs big pharma products liability doc review sweatshops.
Lowenstein Sandler--wannabe NY Biglaw. Dumb associates.
Latham and Watkins, Newark--only does toxic torts.
Gibbons, DelDeo--Well regarded by judges, does a lot of pro bono. Did away with summer program in order to be able to pay regular associates.
Drinker Biddle (Florham Park)--big (by Jersey standards) branch office of Philly firm that mostly does products liability; partners look like hobbits or other freaks of nature.
Riker Danzig (Morristown)--always hiring because no one stays long.
Wilentz (Woodbridge)--plaintiff's side work, dark offices.
Greenbaum, Rowe, Smith (Woodbridge)--in the past five years, name partners and hoardes of associates have left, taking clients and cases (or at least their sanity) with them. Sinking ship.
Wilson, Estler---has a Newark office. Asbestos.
HofstraMagna -
You have said so many dumb things that if Hofstra gave you magna, it belongs in a special fifth tier. Let's see, Hempstead beats Rockaway? Where's the beach in Hempstead? Hofstra is tied with Fordham for third in the NY area? According to whom? Are you saying that Hofstra beats Brooklyn, Cardozo and St. John's? I don't think so.
11:44 -- are you proud to be an American? You make me proud to be an American. Semper Fi!
Once while I was walking home to my apartment in Brooklyn, a gigantic Gowanus Monster jumped out and bit my arm. It hurt a little, but I guess its just part of living in Brooklyn. It will be a good story to tell the grand kids though.
Is the NY office for Cravath any good? I am having trouble finding any info. from what I can tell its sounds like a pretty nice place to work.
Gibbons is still milking the cache associated with its name partner, John J. Gibbons, former Chief Judge of the 3rd circuit and advocate extrodinare- He kicked Ted Olsen's ass in Rasul v. Bush thereby confirming that the detainess at Gitmo are entitled to habeas review-decision later abrogated by statute) The dude is bad ass- He told Chief Justice Renquist that he was wrong and "didn;t get it").
11:53, love it. What about these:
Sills Cummis
McElroy Beutch
Archer & Greiner
Wolff & Samson
Fox Rothschild
Connell Foley
Budd Larner
Cole Schotz
McGivney & Kluger
Sorry, meant McElroy Deutch. McElroy Beutch looks funnier, though.
I would like to see a merger that produces the firm Cummis Shotz.
I would like to see a merger that produces the firm Cummis Shotz.
Haaaaaaaaaaa
Does anyone know if the offices of Fried Franks in NYC are nice?
Lowenstein is great- you give them your entire existence and in return get free sandwiches and a ride home. You will also be surrounded by truly humorless and boring people.
Cummis Shotz? I don't get it. Is that a real firm or are you joking?
Damn, 12:13. Only one ride home? I don't see how that's "great," but I guess you're just a very appreciative person.
LS doesn't even give that ride home.
Fried Franks are a NY delicacy- I like them with relish.
Do funny people work at Skadden? I hear they can be pretty fratty and fun loving over there.
Yes, Cummis Shotz is real firm. I speak from experience.
Gibbons will always be Crummy to me
Has anybody ever been to Harlem after midnight?
i find it pretty hard to believe anyone would want to live in Baghdad over Jersey. then again, i suppose this is assuming i prefer to live rather than be blown up
11:53 = Gibbons troll
If I want to go to a law firm where I know my efforts will be properly rewarded and people aren't tight with money, should I go to Schulte Rothberg or Sullivan and Cromwell?
Hey Hofstra Douche, have a look at the link below. Allow me to list NY Area schools that place more students in the NLJ 250 than your shitbag Junior Law School:
NYU
Columbia
Cornell
Yale
Fordham
Rutgers-Newark
Cardozo
St. John's
Brooklyn
Seton Hall
SUNY-Buffalo
Syracuse
The news isn't all bad. You edged out NYLS and have gotten the best of CUNY. But those Jersey schools are putting Hofstra to shame (RU-Newark sends 3x more to NLJ 250).
Hofstra = Nassau County College of Law
Didn't Cousin Vinny from the movie go to school there?
Here is the Hofstra = Nassau County College of Law link:
http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/regional_NY.pdf
"New Jersey is an armpit. Full disclosure, I live in Hempstead. Long Island is 10 times better than Jersey. "
Wow that's funny! One herb from one hellhole trying to talk down to another herb from another, quite similar, hellhole.
Take it from a true NYCer: both places suck. Like really, really suck. Although geographically close to NYC, both might as well be lightyears away in terms of culture, lifestyle, and people.
Bruce Springsteen is from NJ and still lives here along with Bon Jovi and a host of other global icons so suck it... P.S. our Supreme Court is regarded as one of the best in the nation. Suck it again..
NJ firms are big on salary compression - they'll go to $125 or more for first years but then pay their 4th yrs $128 to make up for it (and 5th yrs too sometimes). I've heard Gibbons is a better atmosphere and Sills is a sweatshop - 2000 hrs min, 2150 for a $2500 bonus if you're a 1 - 4th yr.
I don't want the gowanus monster to get me. Can't the police do something?
HA, second all-time leading receiver on the Jets is like coming in first in the Special Olympics. Hofstra dude, if big firms are breaking down your doors to hire Hofstra students, why are you getting your MBA? JDs who get an MBA are just trying for one more shot at Biglaw OCI; the firms realized what douches they were the first time around and sent the rejection letter.
Why is everybody so angry on this website? Do all attorneys really hate every other attorney? If I am an attorney at Dewey LeBoef, can I not still be friends with someone at Fried Frank? Or is that like someone from Long Island dating someone from Spanish Harlem?
I hate Hofstra so much! I am about to throw up all over my secretary right now because her first name begins with an H and I am just so angry!
I nailed a hot jewish girl from Hofstra Once-
I once moved to New Jersey to take a state clerkship. We all make mistakes. Before I knew it, I was taking the California bar and headed west to escape as soon as my year was up.
I have lived in Third World countries with more charm than New Jersey.
Hofstra dude (his profile, and all of his posts) are just a joke, right? NO ONE could be that lame.
I think he's sitting back, laughing at how hard you've all fallen for the gag.
3 Wayne Chrebet jerseys, and he wears them once a week? I repeat: NO ONE could be that lame.
Jewish girls are hot?
some jewish girls are hot
About this Hofstra dude, have you read his profile and other posts? Not sure if he is legit or not. If he is for real, wow, just wow. If he's a put-on, he's very good at it.
Perhaps he is looking to supplant Loyola2L?
Is Queensbridge a nice area to live? Are the prices reasonable?
Hey Hofstra, putting aside your biased opinion of Hofstra for a moment, do you really consider Brooklyn and Fordham to be "bad schools" (as stated in one of your other posts)?
Hey moran at 12:38:
Go back to college and study the globe for another 7 years, idiot. SUNY Buffalo, Syracuse and Yale aren't NYC area schools.
Irregardless, your citing of Yale brings up an interesting point about Hofstra. Like Yale, Hofstra grads are highly sought after for prestigious clerkships, positions of prominence in business (consulting, banking and PE) and have a strong desire to help others through public interest. Because of this, Hofstra's representation in the group that you idiots call "Biglaw" might seem a little low, but when you go up and down the list of Hofstra grads from my class, it is clear that the numbers that you are relying on don't tell the story. Don't let facts get in the way of a good rant, though.
Irregardless, haaaaaaaaaaaa he syas irregardless--- moron status confirmed.
1:38 - I think Fordham is good, it is tied with Hofstra for the 3rd best rep in the NYC metro just behind NYU and Columbia. Brooklyn is not so good, people who go there who aren't at the very top of the class graduate with huge debts that are impossible to pay off, so I think going to Brooklyn is like buying a $150k lottery ticket, there is a lot less risk going to Hofstra or Fordham, thus I put them towards the top tier, with Cardozo and Brooklyn a cut below.
Alright, with the "moran" & "irregardless," I am convinced that HofstraMagna is a joke. Admittedly, I thought he was serious for a while.
TO EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD WHO IS BASHING HOFSTRA:
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/add925/moran.jpg
1:50 is right. We were duped. Well played, sir.
These statements confirm it:
"I think Fordham is good, it is tied with Hofstra for the 3rd best rep in the NYC metro JUST BEHIND NYU AND COLUMBIA." .... and "Hofstra grads are highly sought after for prestigious clerkships, positions of prominence in business"
Are jewish girls fun to date?
12:28--cleary you do not know how to read. Perhaps you are a graduate of one of NJ's law schools?
The entire list was preceded by a phrase comparing all NJ law firms to bacteria. The Gibbons entry, repeated below, contains two sentences:
Gibbons, DelDeo--Well regarded by judges, does a lot of pro bono. Did away with summer program in order to be able to pay regular associates.
Perhaps you neglected to read the second sentence or didn't understand its meaning. Let me break it down for you: Gibbons scrapped its summer program ~6 years ago because it couldn't afford to pay its already compressed salaries to regular associates. No money, no pride.
2:16 -- Are you angry because you're fat? If so, then thats ok. Just lose wait and people won't laugh as much.
Are jewish girls fun to date?
YES, YES..... They like alot of sexy
"Hofstra grads are highly sought after for prestigious clerkships, positions of prominence in business (consulting, banking and PE)"
He's right about the Phys Ed part.
What do Pitney Harden partners make? They are meant to be a good firm. . . right?
jewish girls are whoores
3:20 -- It's Day Pitney now. PPP=570K and average compensation per partner is the same.
Bravo Hofstramagna, that was by far the best string of comments I've read on this site in weeks. You really had me going
2:29--my collarbone puts Kash's to shame. Are you angry because you don't know English grammar?
What's a collarbone? Why is Kash ashamed of her collarbone?
Posted by anon | Permalink
Friday, March 14, 2008 9:50 AM
head shots often mean big backyard.
Posted by Patrick | Permalink
Friday, March 14, 2008 9:55 AM
I'd prefer a lawyer for a law blog, but I agree that her writing already far outshines SEN's. Huzzah!
Posted by guest | Permalink
Friday, March 14, 2008 9:58 AM
Not good grammar. Ex. 1:
"I'm a Washington, D.C., non-profiteer (aka low-paid nonprofit organization employee) and come to ATL from the journalism world. "
Posted by guest | Permalink
Friday, March 14, 2008 10:00 AM
9:50(2) --
That's right as a general proposition, but look at those collar bones. There's no way she's beefy.
4:14--
http://abovethelaw.com/2008/03/kash_in_on_atl.php#comments
Ummmmmmmm ... this sucks
Irregardless, it should go on, moran.
Dear HofstraMagna:
Wikipedia has a post on you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douche
Hofstra Guy,
You are the dochiest bag of douche ever to claim to graduate from Hofstra Douchiversity School of Law. DOUCHE.
11:32. Pretty sure this HofstraMagma guy is a joke !
Tues 10:27am: If your kids are still young and you can deal with reverse commute, stay in NY for a bit longer and beef up your savings. I too sought the elusive QOL at NJ firm after 5 yrs in NYC (also doing reverse commute) only to return within 2 yrs. Why, even though firm/people were great (for the most part) and particular practice group pretty good? Not enough truly sophisticated work (read: got bored fast), salary compression was ridiculous and hours worked, while not horrendous, not reduced enough to justify salary differential (got $80k+ bump at new NYC firm).
NJ:
Only the strong survive.
But only the smart get out.
McElroy, Deutsch, Mulvaney & Carpenter is an awesome place to work. I'm a mid-level lit associate there and all of the associates are on a first-name basis with even the named partners. Our billable requirements are good, but bonuses still leave something to be desired.