Finally ATL gets some original content. The recycled link posting shenanigans were gettin' old.

When did "Asia" become an adjective?

Great post. I'm looking forward to reading more from the Asia Corporate Lawyers.

Very interesting stuff. I, too, am looking forward to reading more from ACL.

I'm moving to Hong Kong!

I imagine there will multiple posts regarding WGWAG?

good stuff, Asia Corporate Lawyers! I look forward to reading more.

Interesting. I look forward to a follow-up on the Skadden partner who reportedly died at an Australian airport with cocaine, and something about the prevalence of Asian fetishists. Or is this all sponsor-paid content?

this post is interesting to the .01% of US law grads who end up practicing in asia. great idea.

The whole post was one long recruiting brochure.

7:29 - It was Japan, not Australia.

Can I has AZN prostitute?

any good options in asia for american jds not qualified to get a vault 100 job?

Guys at my high school went for BIGASIALAW all the time. It was no big deal.

I'm a corporate associate in Asia - what do you want to know?

I'm a corporate associate in Asia - what do you guys want to know?

why not post about biglaw in mexico and canada?

@8:19 - go to shanghai, put on a suit & pound the pavement.

Can someone tell me which school #1 in Asia please?

what about biglaw in baghdad? litigation has to suck, especially when opposing counsel can just argue "allah wills otherwise" and have you beheaded for your blasphemy

Hello. This Roger Luo. I am apply in HLS for the 2009 after the long hiatus for care for family in Asia. This column does the very good thing for me. Thank you.

Hello. This again is Roger Luo. One person say which school is best for Asia. My experience is the follows. HLS is best school for practice in Asia. Common person in Asia respect HLS and know HLS name even if never travel for America. For these reason I say HLS is best school for law in Asia.

well done 9:27

9:41/9:43 - you are SO not Roger Luo. You're getting the dialect totally wrong, beginning with the fact that Roger would write "HLS is best in Asia," not "HLS is best school for law in Asia.'

roger luo you are a total joke. and the joke blows.

Hello Mr. Guest. And if it is Miss Guest then I sorry. This Roger Luo. I am say HLS is best in Asia. This is also HLS is best for law in Asia. This sentence carry same meaning. I am know this for I am study english three year in Asia while recover black lung and care for ailing mother. English instructor say this learning is impressive and likely help in application for HLS. I am only apply for HLS. HLS is best in Asia and I am want to practice for Asia after law school. So I am apply for HLS and HLS only. Thank you.

Does this count as Asia Lawyer trolling? Lat this is shameful. Why not just pay Kash to pose nude on the internet if you need more money?

This column is *so* unnecessary. And the posts above that say things like "Very interesting stuff. I, too, am looking forward to reading more from ACL" are clearly the ACL writers themselves.

Who. The. F. Cares. Lat, I like that you are branching out with other contributors and more subjects, but i think this blog has gotten too diluted. I used to read every single post wiht interest. These days, I skim through about half of them because they are too long and just not interesting.

What about Baker's office in Tijuana...we need an update on the cartel action and homicide rate...also what about firm events in Tijuana..

Do you think Roger Luo made his point?

Please address the following issues:

1. The workload/hours (rumored to be fairly heavy) and office culture difference with the US
2. How easy/hard is it to move BACK to the US after gaining experience in the high demand Asia practice, pressure from firms to continue to do Asian work or send you back abroad again?
3. Tax considerations
4. American vs. British firms
5. Partnership/advancement locally and with the firm in general

Been waiting for something like this for a long time now, good luck!

1. Depends - different firms vary. I have friends at firms out here where the hours are similar to the pre-subprime mortgage crisis hours of a corporate associate in NY(meaning 2000+ hours) and there are those at firms where the work comes and goes - meaning days of doing nothing and days where you work 24 hours a day (literally).

2. Can't answer that question (yet).

3. You know the foreign exemption under the IRS Publication 54 I think, right? Depends on where you are - HK taxes lower than the US (income taxes - of course, housing gets you, but you may be able to avoid this depending on how your income is structured); PRC - taxes fairly high and in some instances higher than in the US; Singapore - have heard they have a low tax rate there. For other countries, not too familiar with the tax rates.

4. Again, not too familiar with this area either.

5. Some US firms have similar tracks as to what we have in the US; some firms promote you to partner based on the quality of your work (meaning you're not on a set track - you could make partner earlier than your contemporaries in the US, but this also implies that you could make partner later than your contemporaries as well). Also, at some firms that have smaller offices, the opportunity to make partner is higher than at bigger offices.

Hope this helps.

this post is crap, it says nothing.

i hope for more entertaining and less informing but i have a feeling Asia Corporate Lawyers aren't engaging in much gossip-worthy activity due to their 80 hour work weeks.

I can't believe I'm only the second guy to nominate WGWAG as a big motivation for US trained lawyers to relocate to Asia. If nothing else it's at least a good motivation to VISIT Asia.

Someone should create dueling WGWAG characters (Asian guy/White guy) and use them to post all over. I'll lend my photo for the white WGWAG guy.

Thanks 12:07, I appreciate the info (though I am still hopeful for more comprehensive/inside info later from ACL)

on 3 specifically,

I am familiar with the tax rate, on the surface, but I refuse to believe that corporate lawyers (you know, the people that gets paid to help people duck taxes legally?) pay the regular rate :)

Especially in the PRC, famous for richness in legal loopholes, lax enforcement and ambiguous statutes. Anyone got a clue as to what % people actually end up getting held up at?

Freshfields is opening a new office in Lhasa.

Asia sounds awesome, but my wife would *never* let me do this.

- Whipped.

P.S. Good column; glad, as are others, to see original content. Now where are the legal world's equivalents of Bess Levin and Equity Private?

What are the elite US offices in, say Japan and China? (I...must...see...rankings!)

Hello Mr. Guest and if it is Miss Guest I am sorry. You are ask for elite US offices in, say Japan and China. This is Asia. Are you plan for the Asia practice? I am say these one advice to you. Apply to HLS or transfer to HLS. All elite US offices in, say Japan and China (this is Asia) highly regard law degree of HLS. I am desire to practice in, say Japan and China and also therefore apply for school in HLS in Boston. Thank you.

Please change the name of this "author" from Asia Corporate Lawyers to Asia Attorney Recruiters.

Or you can change it to Evan Jowers.

I think the best foreign firms in Asia are, by and large, Magic Circle firms. Cleary, Simpson Thatcher, Skadden, Paul Hastings, Baker & McKenzie, Sidley Austin and a few others put in a good showing, though.

9:14 -- Shut up and go back to whatever TTT you creeped your way out of. You are scum. Go tackle a bus.

Yeah, I'm not sure if coming back is all that easy. First of all the training. Years of flying by the seat of your pants in a make do organization does not actually give you skills to compete against New York attrys who are learning from the masters of their field. Example: do you think they have a UCC expert in your little Asian office? Nope, so you look it up and wing it. In the home New York office you go to the resident UCC expert (perhaps a drafter of revised UCC) and get a real answer and understanding of the issue. Repeat this example once a month for four years and you are way behind your New York classmates in your knowledge base.
Also when you come back you leave all your business connections behind. That is tough on your rainmaking potential.
But there are opportunities if you want to stay over there forever. China might continue to really grow (barring civil unrest from the half billion illiterate peasants, which is a possibility), and getting in now while the competition is still relatively weak (compared to what you face in London and New York) might be a great move. I've got three good friends in Asia and they are all more successful there (not lawyers) than they ever were or ever could be in the U.S. I'm a little jealous, in case you can't tell. So it is working out great for them. But they don't have any plans to come back and it would be hard for them to do so.

9:24 (aka Evan Jowers) - Sorry I offended you Evan. Get back on the meds and take your hands off the little asian children.

Yours Truly,

9:14

Is this really the kind of crap we have to look forward to? How does working in Asia justify more than a single post? The Asian Corporate Lawyers need to join SEN in ATL purgatory.

I hate 9:14 so much. and what is an Evan Jowers? I just hate 9:14 because I hate 9:14. Can't we just hate people for no real reason other than to hate?

Hong Kong to ¥1,328,099?

I enjoyed the post. It contains much more original content, albeit sponsored, than some of the mundane gossip posted regularly. I also believe the intention of this post was a means of introduction to a future series of posts.

Out-sourcing and foreign firm competition is a hot topic in our profession, so I fail to understand why more attorneys would not like to hear more from the frontlines.

Great post - I'd like to see more of this, and on other regions of the world where U.S. attorneys could realistically get a job. Ignore the whinny punks that are bitter because they have a wife and/or kids and could never escape and move to Asia.

Let's be honest here. It's all about the yellow fever.

Free TIBET!!!!

FILTHK - Failed in London, Try Hong Kong

9:26 am:

Interesting post. However, could it be argued that the experience gained by learning to "wing it" is similarly valuable to learning the specific provisions from a master in the field? Taking your UCC analogy, wouldn't it be valuable to learn how to find something yourself in the UCC for four years versus being fed the narrow rule once a month? And when that lawyer returns to the US, couldn't he then take advantage of the master while still being able to do some of his own work?

I understand your point, and I can see that advantage, but from my perspective I think you're underrating the different experience of a lawyer given more responsibility and less resources.

Thank you.

日本語ができるの弁護士がここにいますか。

If the next post from these guys does not address WGWAG, then it is a useless column.

11:31 -- yes. no need for the "no" between dekiru and bengoshi.

why is it necessary to sponsor a post? did it cost a lot to write or publish? or is it just that nobody who is actually a lawyer in asia was willing to write anything for free? i agree with the other commenters, enough folks are interested in the topic (admittedly not a lot, but enough) that it could be useful, but if it's meaningless recruiter drivel ... well, i could get that just by picking up my phone when they call.

11:47 - Just trying to be proper. So how's the market over there?

You go into some of these law firms in New York, and like a lot of law firms, the jobs have been gone now for six months and nothing's replaced them. And it's not surprising then the associates get bitter, they cling to antipathy to high-flying, hard-charging corporate associates working throughout Asia as a way to explain their frustrations.

11:02- somewhat credited.

Serious Question for Asian Lawyers:
Do you fear the Chinese? Are you careful never to criticize the Chinese Communist Party or its policies? I would worry about being reported to their secret police or being attacked by my colleagues. It seems that almost every native Chinese person I've met is a stooge/troll/spy for the Chinese Communist Party.

For American lawyers working in China, do they provide surgical mask and breathing assistance?

I'd be interested in hearing about the opportunities for litigators in China. Is there much arbitration work?

Do these firms provide IVF coverage for women? How about ED treatment for men? Liposuction or botox? Do they pay for haircuts or makeup?

Do all three of the kanji after "no" spell bengoshi, or is there another word?

9:26 - I see some of your points, but I also agree with 11.13. I do think there are different skills to be gained.

For starters, do you really think the middle-aged brilliant partner in New York who drafted UCC is going to spend 30 minutes meticulously teaching you the law when you have a problem?! I think you are way exaggerating this.

My own experience has been, if you have a problem, you can email the expert, and he may email you back, or at most call you for a 5-minute chat if he is nice. This lovely convenience is equally available to my colleagues in our Hong Kong office.

The advantage you do gain in NY is that you are trained to be more meticulous and anal, to satisfy both your partners and your clients. I have heard that in the Asian offices, people are a little more lax and "flexible" with sloppy drafting and/or filings. Another big thing about the Asian legal market is that it is undeniably still dominated by the British Magic Circle firms. Your 25-attorney office in HK is not as fun/professionally enriching/supportive as Allen & Over's HK office with 120+ lawyers.

- V5 NYC

"It seems that almost every native Chinese person I've met is a stooge/troll/spy for the Chinese Communist Party."

It seems that almost every douchbag such as yourself I've met loves to troll for angry comment clusterfucks. What a dick.

Why does this post require a sponsor? And will every future post include a paragraph about it?

Oh, and 12:46am: Just a heads up - tax lawyers are the "people that gets paid to help people duck taxes legally", not corp folks.

1:39, isn't Baker's HK office close to 200 attorneys? Also, are the sloppy drafting and/or filings done in local language or English? Trying to figure out if it's due to sloppy US vs. local attorneys.

what about "European Chronicles"!?!?!?! This is BLATANT DISCRIMINATION!!!!

"Do all three of the kanji after "no" spell bengoshi, or is there another word?"

When did this post turn into language lessons?

3:03

yes, corporate lawyers don't deal with tax issues regularly in their work *rolls eyes*

the poster obviously meant that ONLY corp lawyers deal with tax/that they are in fact the specialized tax people and NOT that as a corporate attorney they might have more awareness of ways to avoid taxation compared to say.. burger flippers

why do people insist on dwelling on poor expression when the meaning is patently obvious? oh wait, we're lawyers, nevermind.

Doesn't MoFo rule the Tokyo law scene? Yo?

2:48: clearly a communist troll. Go kill a Tibetan or repress freedom or whatever it is you do for kicks

uh, can we all try to be a little less racist in our posting?

The Asians invented Bukkake- A very advanced people..

Blade Runner.
Those who know will know.

12:46 - I actually work in the PRC and the tax rates varies. However, this is how people pay tax according to the various tax rates:

The first 4800 is tax free. Then the remainder is taxed according to this schedule:

Tax %....Bracket..........Deduct
45%......Over 100,000...15,375
40%......Over 80,000....10375
35%......Over 60,000....6375
30%......Over 40,000....3375
25%......Over 20,000....1375
20%.....Over 5000........375
15%.....2000-5000.......125
10%.....500-2000.........25
5%.......Under 500........0

So an example would be:

If you are making 16k, you would be in the 20% bracket with a 375 deduction. Ipso facto, without supplying any fapiaos (receipts) at all, your tax would be

(16,000 - 4800 ) = 11,200
(11,200 x 20%) = 2240
2240 - 375 = 1,865
TOTAL TAX: 1,865

Trust me when I say people actually pay the above taxes - the problem is, you have the foreign lawyers paying their taxes and the rest of the country (locals) avoiding paying. Their system still has a lot of work to do in terms of figuring out exemptions, exceptions, etc... but pwc puts out a good publication explaining the taxation system.

http://www.pwccn.com/webmedia/doc/633277896197817850_cn_tax_facts_figures_2007.pdf

Corporate lawyers do pay the tax rate - that deduction helps but we still have to pay it. Problem is the Bank of China doesn't take credit cards.

每个老外喜欢中国小姐，对不对？

12:59 PM, serious question for you:
Can you give me a blow job?

4/25@7:55am, tax table helpful but more meaningful if you structured example for US atty's salary (unless it really is US$16k over there?!) and took into account IRS's foreign tax credit. Bottom line, US atty has to consider total of taxes payable to both PRC and US.

@5:22 - not necessarily - think about it. You get paid base salary of $170K - you have the roughly $84K exemption/exclusion and you can claim a housing exclusion as well.

So we get taxed on a monthly basis here - they look at your salary and what you're paid on a monthly basis and divide that by the exchange rate- if you're making, say 105,000 RMB a month, then you're taxed at 45%...BUT, according to the calculation above, you'd punch in your quick deduction, then multiply what's left over by the % amount, then deduct what you are permitted to under the table and that would be your monthly tax.

I.E. - 105000-4800 = 100200

100200 * 45% = 45090

45090 - 15,375 = 29715

you'd be paying 29715 RMB per month, which at the 7/1 rate, is like $4,245 USD.

Think about the last number though - 29715. When you divide that by 105000, you're actually only paying taxes at a rate of 28%.

Hi guys - I'm writing this as a lawyer originally from the UK who is in Asia now.

There are two kinds of people who do this, and they are often completely different character types.

Kind 1: The failed 'spiv' from London who has managed to leverage his firm connections to get him to Hong Kong. May be relatively seniour.

Kind 2: The second kind who spent many years in the mainland - probably not as a lawyer - but who learned Mandarin to a really good level and starts on that basis.

One pretty obvious trend, I can tell you, is that we will be seeing fewer and fewer of the latter, even though right now they might technically be more senior.

Why? Well, just try to get a client without Mandarin!

The days of the "failed in London try the East" are beginning to come to an end. And, I might add, it was far harder to find work out here than in London. Don't assume it's an easy 'out' when the financial markets fail over there.

By the way, I don't think the motive can be WGWAG, unless you are in Shanghai. In some of the other places here, e.g. Hong Kong, the girls are "not-the-best".

The free apartment is only for short-termers (<6months). Otherwise forget it.

Oh, and you will work longer hours.But you will get more exposure at a more 'generalist' level.

Forgot to mention: the crap English drafting is almost always from crap Asian lawyers the firms have to recruit to make themselves look less 'white-heavy'.

Forgot to mention: the crap English drafting is almost always from crap Asian lawyers the firms have to recruit to make themselves look less 'white-heavy'.

Forgot to mention: the crap English drafting is almost always from crap Asian lawyers the firms have to recruit to make themselves look less 'white-heavy'.

Please replace 'latter' with 'former' in post 83 above.