Endless Summer? Not at Pillsbury
(And start dates possibly pushed back for first-years, too.)
[Ed. note: Apologies for the radio silence for much of today. Alas, we've been experiencing some rather severe technical difficulties, in connection with the site redesign and relaunch. The next few days (and perhaps weeks) may be a little bumpy around here; please bear with us. Thanks for your patience.]
Here are two pieces of information that we've heard about Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman:
1. For incoming first-year associates, their start dates, originally set for early October 2008, are being pushed back. These new associates could start as late as January 2009. The delay is due to "a serious slowdown in business."2. For 2008 summer associates, the summer program has been reduced from 12 weeks to 10 weeks. Summer associates will not be allowed to work more than 10 weeks, even if they want to.
With respect to the first tip, concerning incoming full-time associates, we've heard it with respect to the Los Angeles office specifically. With respect to the second tip, concerning summer associates, we believe it to be a firmwide policy.
We contacted PWSP for confirmation and comment, earlier this week and again today. A firm spokesperson confirmed receipt of our inquiries but had no comment (as of the time of this posting; if we hear from her, we'll update this post).
More details, plus reactions from some of our tipsters, after the jump.
With respect to first-year associate start dates, this is what we've heard:
You might want to look into some potentially troubling news out of Pillsbury (Los Angeles) and maybe other Pillsbury offices as well. Their new crop of associates was originally scheduled to start around October 1st of this year (these are folks who summered at Pillsbury L.A. in 2007). However, at least in L.A., the incoming associates have been told that their start date will be delayed. They haven't been told when they'll start; apparently that decision will be made soon. But there is speculation that the start date could be pushed out as far as January 2009. This is a huge problem for many new associates who were counting on paychecks starting in October -- they've got rent to pay in addition to putting down security deposits on new apartments/houses.The incoming associates have been told that the delay is due to a serious slow-down in business. Not a good sign.
If you have info about Pillsbury start dates outside of L.A., please email us.
With respect to the shortened summer program, we've heard specific mention of the ten-week policy applying to San Francisco, Washington, and New York. But it appears to be nationwide, based on what our sources were told. From one disgruntled incoming summer:
[Pillsbury has] reduced their summer program (that is, this summer’s program) from 12 weeks to 10. I actually had planned on doing 13 weeks with them, so there goes $10,000 of summer salary. The partner who called me said that it was “partly economic,” and partly a matter of uniformity among the offices. I’m partly pissed, and partly worried about the firm’s future health.
From a second SA:
The hiring partner called me this week and said that they're shortening the summer program from 12 weeks to 10, saying it's to put our office on the same schedule as other offices and firms.Obviously, I think this is total bs and they're running short on money -- rather than firing a few of us, they've just cut everyone's salary by 1/6. My hopes of getting an offer for next year are even lower than they used to be and I'm starting to focus even more on alternatives for after graduation.
From a third tipster (we received word of this from many sources):
Pillsbury just called me to inform us that they are cutting their summer program from 12 to 10 weeks. [They] said that they were doing this in part due to the merger between Shaw Pittman and Pillsbury Winthrop, as well as to cut costs. This comes as quite a shock with the summer readily approaching. I haven't had confirmation that this has happened to anyone else yet, but he did say "nationwide switch" in his phone call.
A fourth Pillsbury SA was less grumpy than the others:
In the end, I am fine with their decision. I am sure these summer programs are a huge expense, more so during a downturn. However, I do hope things pick up soon!I just want to say that they have been amazing with the way they have treated me as a "recruit" from the beginning - so I do hope the story doesn't portray them in a bad light.
Times are tough all around - but they have been very classy all around. They chose to have a smaller summer class on purpose - due to the market. I had a few offers with higher ranked Vault firms, but PWSP stood head and shoulders above the rest in the way they treated me, and I actually liked the fact that our class would be smaller than the classes at some of the other firms I contemplated. I was quite impressed on how they stressed the importance of work life balance, and I heard this from every person with whom I met....
Despite this hiccup of having 2 weeks trimmed, I still think I picked a great firm and am excited to get started.
After we responded to this tipster by commending their good attitude, we received this reply:
I had a career before going back to law school -- and worked very hard for almost 1/3 the same amount of money. I am very thankful for the opportunity, and I would do the same thing if I were a business owner trying to assure the long-term financial success of my business. In a downturn, people need to think of the big picture and the long term, rather than being shortsighted.I do hope this won't taint the attitudes of my classmates coming into the program.
So, ATL readers, what do you think? Do the Pillsbury Winthrop summers have legitimate grievances? Or do they lack the sense of perspective of Tipster #4, who is just grateful to have a well-paying job during a tough economic climate?
(103) Comments
If I were in this position, I would use that extra time to look for a position at a different firm. At least Pillsbury had the decency to not fire people. Not much the summers can do about it. Hopefully, they'll be truthful with the people they no-offer this summer.
Hey incoming first-years: make lemons out of lemonade and just have a really great bar trip! I recommend Belize, which is not only lovely and warm, but has no extradition treaty with the US, meaning your creditors will have a really hard time reaching you there.
THIS LAYOUT SUCKS THAT IS WHAT I THINK. THIS LAYOUT SUCKS THAT IS WHAT I THINK. THIS LAYOUT SUCKS THAT IS WHAT I THINK. THIS LAYOUT SUCKS THAT IS WHAT I THINK. THIS LAYOUT SUCKS THAT IS WHAT I THINK. THIS LAYOUT SUCKS THAT IS WHAT I THINK.
The incoming SAs, like everyone else in our economy, have a right to be upset at the effect this economy is having on them. However, they must at the same time be grateful that they will have a paycheck for 10 weeks and will be returning to school for at least 1 more year. Hopefully 1 year from now they will enter the job market with a better economy. There are many people who are being laid-off, both in law firms and the economy at large, so everyone should put things in perspective. While it would have been nice for the SAs to know ahead of time about the shortened length of the program, this economic slowdown was probably as much a surprise to Pillsbury as to everyone else. I give the firm credit for trying to make the best of a tough situation and hope these SAs see that.
Boo f-ing hoo. I only make $140K for my first year as a PWSP associate. Cry me a river. Whiny T1 a-holes. Come work as a doc review attorney out of a T2 school for 75K a year and then let me know how life is in comparison. Whinny bitches.
To tipster #4, agreed that it is important that the firm make sure they are making sound business decisions and do what needs to be done. However, I can't help but think that your entire summer class will be motivated to find positions with other firms for full time employment. Why choose to go back to a firm that couldn't provide adequate $$ for a summer program, and, more importantly, is now starting full timers 3-4 months late. By being 'long term', haven't they just shot themselves in the foot for the next couple recruiting cycles among those that have a choice?
Pillsbury is a fairly reputable firm. They aren't going to be the last to make such a move, and in the end, won't look as bad for having done so. Many others are probably preparing to do the same.
i dont think it s a bad decision at all re. the summers. The economy is bad, all companies have to cut costs. Knocking two weeks off the wine and dine experience seems like a better decision to me than laying people off.
2 weeks salary saved * 26 summers = 1 first year.
Obviously, idea situation is for the partners to take the hit, but barring that, better to cut off SAs than to lay off associates or support staff.
Do they realize that first years have loans that come due 6 months after graduation?
This is definitely becoming a trend. Milbank, which usually offers a 14 week program, is now limiting us to 12 weeks.
The full time offer situation is going to be a blood bath this year.
3:46 wrote: "At least Pillsbury had the decency to not fire people."
I'd encourage you to dig a little deeper.
here's an idea of how to fix your "tech troubles": GO BACK TO THE OLD LAYOUT. THIS NEW LAYOUT SUCKS,
Pillsbury is a fairly reputable firm. They aren't going to be the last to make such a move, and in the end, won't look as bad for having done so. Many others are probably preparing to do the same.
They better hope so.
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the LA office of Pillsbury fairly small and also focused on a lot of securities, finance, and real estate?
Also, the start date delay affects less than 10 people, and they could have very well been hired for those groups that are now lagging.
the cutting the summer program down is not only pillsbury.
look into Shearman and Sterling- they are starting their summer early May, even though many law school exams dont finish until late May, and then forcibly ending the summer program the last week of July. ie not many people will be able to fill out the full 10-12 weeks.
i know my firm has a firm end date of Aug 8, which provides a 12 week program but no extra work (as i was hoping)
I feel like Donald Sutherland's character from JFK when I say this, but you're so close to the truth. It's right in front of you; if you dig a little deeper it will come out.
Unfortunately, firms way over hired over the last few years. I fear we are headed for an economic apocalypse and big law firms will be just as brutalized as corporate America.
This is just the beginning of the cost cutting measures
Perfectly reasonable response. It's not one crappy firm in trouble - it's the whole economy. Students should just get that. And for those threatening to leave the moment your firm cuts your "non-work" experience by 1-2 weeks, where are you going to go? Do you really think every other firm has a desperate need for additional 1st year associates?
Just my fucking luck. So all that work in 1L for what? To be no offered at the end of a (now much shorter) summer?
Pillsbury has been considered a sinking ship since at least 1998. This should not trouble the law students who get knocked back weeks/months as they have already overcome that hurdle.
I guess this is the beginning of the end of all the wining and dining for SAs.
Really sucks for the 1st years though. But a word of wisdom: Focus on the BAR (and graduating). Screwing either one up wont help your situation. Gluck.
Sinking ship...isn' that a little dramatic? As an incoming PWSP summer, I'm hopeful that the economy will recover by the time that our class would be set to start, Fall 2009. Plus, PWSP already has a relatively small summer class. Maybe they are just being responsible, unlike some shaky firms that have taken on summer classes of over 100??
Putting aside the fact that suing a firm would be career suicide, if I have an offer saying it's a 12-week program, I accept, and then they only pay me for 10 weeks, do I have a reliance interest such that I am entitled to the entire 12-weeks' pay?
Recession-shmession!!
4:53 - No, because it is employment at will. That means that they can fire you 5 minutes after you show up and you can do nothing about it.
Also, that is a stupid question only a law student would ask. Stop being such a twit.
4:53 - Seeing as how it looks like you've spent more time reading ATL than your Contracts book, I doubt you'll have to worry about that kind of problem. Cheers!
Do real lawyers ever say "reliance interest"? Or is it strictly law school students and people studying for the bar exam? 4:53 - learn some humility and keep your mouth shut. You sound like an idiot.
lol, what a ttt
Pillsbury was on our database for OCI this year and then withdrew before interviews (well respected locally, T2 school, top students get great jobs). That's a sign they anticipated a lot of this in hiring, and very well may have enough offers for all of their summers.
Sucks for anyone who already signed a lease for the summer and is paying for 2 extra weeks.
We are entering a new era for biglaw. Only the V10 will be able to weather this storm. And don't expect the economy to pick up in 2009 (see the most recent IMF report).
This is a very short sighted move on PWSP's part.
I really feel for those incoming first-years. So that its partners can make an extra $30-40k or so for 2008, those associates are now going to take out bar loans, run up their credit cards, and spend what little savings they have, just to get by (unless they don't have any loans kicking in this fall, have free rent, or have highly paid spouses/partners or very generous and rich parents).
And before the TTT's (or T25 silver-spooners who deliberately chose some righteous public interest path) jump in to scream "lots of people are taking bar loans, running up credit cards, and have no savings, all in the hope of landing a $70k/yr job once bar results are in," save it. Those PWSP first years worked hard to get their jobs, most of whom had more than one (summer associate) offer. Yes, the partners bring in the business and it's their butts on the line for the deals and cases, but their clients also expect that those doing the non-partner legal work hail from top law schools or were top students at good law schools.
Law students (and career service/placement offices at all respectable law schools), associates AND clients should all take careful note of the firms that are this poorly managed and greedy (to say nothing of the dumps that are actually laying off associates, which, all things considered, make PWSP look like Cravath).
seriously, im more concerned about the firms with HUNDREDS of summers. White/Case, Weil, Skadden, Simpson... what are they going to do? Work is slow and they are about to take on hundreds of salary-demanding attorneys... i dont get it!
had dinner with a partner at cadwalader the other day. he blatantly said that they chose to let people go rather than take a pay cut. someone asked him what kind of a PPP cut would have allowed the attorneys to stay and he said he had no idea, didnt matter to him.
gotta love cwt.
When an employee chooses to forgo employment with another employer and remain with his current employer, there may be sufficient consideration to enforce his employer's promise of job security.
The same is true when an employee presented with multiple job offers chooses one over another.
The courts are divided as to whether the forgoing of employment opportunities is additional consideration. Some have looked favorably on the employee's detrimental reliance, while others have refused to find detriment sufficient to constitute independent consideration. Some courts have refused to treat job offers or employment opportunities as sufficient consideration for implied promises of permanent employment or employment terminable only for cause. Mere assertions that an employee gave up job opportunities, without evidence of those opportunities, will not suffice.
Forgone alternate employment opportunities may also be the basis of promissory estoppel claims alleging detrimental reliance on employers' promises of permanent employment or employment terminable only for cause.
82 Am. Jur. 2d Wrongful Discharge § 49
And there was a contract for 12-weeks' employment. Sounds like a fixed term to me, subject only to for-cause discharge.
5:34=4:53
An offer letter is not a contract...are you people listening in class?
I have no idea how Pillsbury has covered up its layoffs in L.A. for so long. I also haven't heard any public mention of it not promoting some attorneys to the next level on the pay scale. Either Pillsbury really knows how to cover things up or ATL is not fulfilling its role in the legal community.
I think I'll go to Med School next....This is all too reminiscent of my first experience out of undergrad in 2001. Before graduation, I had two job offers: one as a consultant and one as an I-banker, both in NYC. I chose banking. Initially, I thought it was the right choice because immediately afterward, the consulting company "delayed" start dates for incoming first year consultants. Sound Familiar? I dodged the bullet, or so I thought. 5 months after I began work at the bank, I was laid off, along with another 20,000 before it was over. Of note, the soon-to-be consultants never started. They were initially offered a stipend to defer for a year, and finally, (if memory serves), had their offers rescinded. In the end, there was no good option. Now, I stand to graduate law school in May and return to the firm I summered with. I have a real knack with timing this economy. Anybody want to sell me their MCAT books? Medical attention is recession proof, right?
Setting aside the academic exercise whether offer letter from firm + acceptance by law student = binding contract, am I the only one who thinks that a LAW FIRM would have considered this issue b4 notifying the students????
5:45 is right on. I was sure that Pillsbury would have shown up on here already. It's not just LA either.
Wahhhhhh!!!! Babies cry when they wet their pants. Graduating from a top law school doesn't guarantee you a firm job. It's called employment at will and capitalism. Now, get in the basement with your tier 2 brethen.
I second 5:57. It's not just LA.
I had 2 friends who summered with them in 2002 and were no offered as 3rd year. Both graduated the top of their class but had no job offer upon graduation. One never practiced law. Pillsbury appears to do this every 5 years or so. Nice.
I had 2 friends who summered with them in 2002 and were no offered as 3rd year. Both graduated the top of their class but had no job offer upon graduation. One never practiced law. Pillsbury appears to do this every 5 years or so. Nice.
anyone have details on the recent layoffs at Pillsbury referenced by 5:45 and 6:03?
Not getting an offer makes you just as TTT tainted as a Hofstra grad.
Bitter fruit , that hubris.
The layoffs, slowdowns and general depression are the result of: Decadence.
And Little Johnny Biglaw finally got his comeuppets.
comeuppets?
to 5:27pm
so you feel sorry for these kids having to do what 80% of the kids who graduate have to do? it sucks but now some will feel waht most feel which is too struggle....and really its only a few - 160K jobs are few and like golden eggs - apparently those who thought they would get them arent....them there life breaks - but seriosjly thats not the end of the world thats typical
"look into Shearman and Sterling- they are starting their summer early May, even though many law school exams dont finish until late May, and then forcibly ending the summer program the last week of July. ie not many people will be able to fill out the full 10-12 weeks."
Harvard's exams end May 11--they can all do the full 12 weeks. Why should Shearman concern itself with TTT students (e.g., UChicago)?
gotta wonder about the tip for the LA office; not sure there is any way that a new biglaw associate in LA could afford to buy a house and also very unlikely that any are even buying condos right away
"seriosjly" we all worked our asses off to get these jobs. Golden eggs are just handed out.
"Obviously, I think this is total bs and they're running short on money -- rather than firing a few of us, they've just cut everyone's salary by 1/6."
WAAAH! Go fire someone so I can get my two additional weeks!
(To say nothing of the presumption that he/she wouldn't be one of the persons fired to give others two weeks).
comeuppets are porn muppets
Work-life balance. The balance they talk about is that your entire life will be work. FUCK LAWFIRMS. THEY SUCK COCK
With exams ending in mid May and law review starting in mid August (before OCI) there are barely 12 weeks left to summer anyway. The summer class should be glad of the chance to take a vacation between summer employment and the return school. Plus, I don't buy the "cutting my salary" line -- most law students live on loans, and in any case should view the summer as a long job interview rather than actual work for pay.
Forcing new attorneys to start in 2009 is another story, though.
It is indeed frustrating to be denied a potential job offer, but remember: The position of Summer Associate is simply a chance at a potential offer. This is a very well paid trial period. There is no entitlement.
Another element to consider is that organizations operating in shaky economic conditions have every right, indeed, the duty, to protect their interests.
I am sure that none of the law firms mentioned above are pleased about making this kind of decision, it is extremely distasteful for an organization to admit that it may not have planned as carefully as expected.
To all you people whining about having to pay for two weeks of rent: You are right, you had expectations, and now they are bruised. This stinks. But get off your high horses and dig yourselves out. (What were you thinking engaging in such an expensive place? You were pretty ready to jump into the BigLaw mind set...)
You still have excellent educations that position you head and shoulders above the average job seeker.
6:57: "They...." Until you need one. And then you're mighty relieved to have an attorney on your side.
somebody earlier mentioned layoffs at pillsbury recently. care to share specifics?
Indeed, someone mentioned Pillsbury layoffs. Joke?
stop being whiny bitches and just get some PT work (e.g., starbucks) until your start date
it's unbelievably how high maintenance people are
Everybody at my school (UVA) has jobs for the summer (despite being always pissed on)
7:09
Not sure what you're talking about with engaging in such an expensive place. 2 weeks rent in a major market is around $700 on the low end. That's probably just a pair of suit pants for a baller like you, but for others with more modest means it makes a difference. The poster above didn't say it was the end of the world and I agree it's only a minor inconvenience compared to the incoming 1st years having their start date pushed back.
7:30 - nope. It will come out eventually.
To the SAs: Wah! You are going to make a sh*tload of money for doing nothing such as preparing useless memos with phrases such as "reliance interest." Enjoy the $30,000+ for your 10 weeks of "work" and try not to be the idiot who voices his/her discontent to any associates/partners during your 10 weeks.
As for the incoming first years, yeah, that sucks. Hopefully, you haven't already entered into ridiculous leases (apartment, car, or otherwise) in April for the money you expected to earn in October as the ATL post suggests.
Pillsbury SF associate headcount has not changed by more than 1-2 people in the last couple months.
No sig change in Pillbury NY either.
I don't think people understand how significant this is. For a reputable firm to be reducing its summer, things must be REALLY bad out there.
I can't imagine how slow the firms are right now. At the end of the summer, I anticipate a 50% no offer rate for most of the firms. How will the firms place 100+ associates when there will be no work in 2009? They won't.
7:49, quick: name 3 "major markets" where standard sublets are weekly rather than monthly. Next, name 3 designers that are both (a) "baller"/expensive and (b) sell suits as separates.
As an incoming first year at PWSP, I have not heard anything about a delayed start. Then again, my offer letter didn't set a specific start date. My experience with PWSP has been fantastic to-date. I do hope that, now that this rumor is out there, PWSP contacts incoming first years to let us know one way or the other. I don't like reading something on ATL and then having to wonder if it is true.
9:44
Most sublets are monthly, but a lot of the people I looked at subletting from pro-rated. That's on craigslist though where its mostly individuals posting, not sure what you mean by a standard sublet. I also figured CL was the cheapest way to sublet, I could be wrong there too.
The suit comment was tongue in cheek, I was hoping we'd get some comments about suits from Men's Warehouse and Brooks Brothers.
7:49
I've always wondered why all summer programs aren't 10 weeks, not 12. It's not like anyone actually does 12 weeks worth of work. A lot of people are dying to leave by the 11th and 12th weeks because they're disturbed by how few hours the firm has actually billed for their work and by the fact they've gained 10-15 lbs.
6:47 - most people bust their asses in law school - most people do not get 160K jobs.
Pillsbury SF has certainly not done layoffs and is in fact so busy they are having some incoming first years start early.
Less-grumpy tipster = Pillsbury recruiting
11:17 - totally agree
9:51 - not-so-subtle PWSP trolling.
About Shearman - That is similar to when they started last year, when things were booming. Plenty of schools were out in time, plus Shearman has lots of summer associates from foreign countries and/or people rotating in foreign offices - they all started on the early date. I could be wrong, but it I think most Canadian, UK and Australian schools are out way before that - Shearman recruits heavily in those places.
What about DC? Has anyone heard about DC? There are rumblings that things are not going well.
ATL to old format!
Here is what most of the comments sound like:
"These firms are TTT's for screwing over their summer and incoming associates. By the way, I think all law students and lawyers that attended a school lower ranked than me are TTT's and I would likely treat them like shit and fire them if I could."
Be honest with yourselves. You guys are miserable and are just looking for things to hate.
ATL's new Layout Sucks!!!!!!
I feel terrible for these Summers. A paltry $30k for 10 weeks is, dare I say, criminal. What if they actually make them work or pay for lunch too?
Grow-up. First, if you're pissed, you can always find yourself another job. Let me know when you find one that pays this well. I'm sure Pillsbury will have no problem finding a replacement (I'm sure many equally qualified would do it for free). Second, if you cannot take getting screwed (and this in no way is being screwed), your time would be better spent trying to get your tuition back, and trying a different profession (see below or do the math: $320 (billable rate) x 2100 (min. billable hours ) = $672,000 - $150,000 (salary) = $522,000 in profits, of which you see 0). I in no way feel bad for someone paying an extra two weeks rent: a) you can afford it, and b) it’s not like you are going to have any other expenses anyway.
As for the First years, 3 months, seriously? Think of it as 3 months not spent in a basement, typing away on excel, logging twenty boxes of one-page copies of all the individual checks your client has written over the past 20 years for that pending litigation - only to find out your case settles at the last possible second. Use this time wisely: bulk-up those arms / start training for a marathon because you will be carrying a lot of brief cases, and the ones that get the call at 4:50 to file that brief across town by 5.
The sense of entitlement is appalling. Like I said before, you are replaceable (i.e. you're not that special). This is an incredible learning experience. You should be kissing their a**es. Rather, you are bad mouthing your future colleagues, mentors, and references.
If I were a partner at Pillsbury and saw / heard this, I would be tempted to scrap the whole class. As a partner, operating in a struggling economy, should they lay-off junior associates they like, or hire a group of unappreciative summers (a few bad apples)? The choice is easy.
Sorry for the rant, but this is disgusting.
12:52 - Keep in mind that most people posting on here aren't going to be summering at Pillsbury. Also, it's not that people are that worried about losing two weeks in the summer. I mean, sure extra money would be nice but in the end it's pretty insignificant. It's also not the fact that first years are starting 3 months later, although I'm sure for some that may present a legitimate financial hardship. I think the real issue is that summers are worried about getting no offered even if they do the right thing and incoming associates are worried their start dates getting pushed back is an early warning that there may not be jobs for them. The people posting that aren't going to be going to Pillsbury are prob. just worried the same thing could happen to them.
I think people understand the economy is struggling, but it doesn't make it any easier to accept that one may not have a job after graduation. I can see where you might think people on here are being petty, and maybe I'm giving people too much credit, but I think it's the underlying concern of not having a job that is bringing out these comments. Hopefully that adds some perspective to things and makes you feel a little less hateful.
1:23 - Hateful is strong. If so, I certainly do not not intend to be. I think you missed or I did not make clear the underlying point. Summering is a privilege, a chance to get great experience, see what the legal field is really like, and make contacts. Summers schooled by seasoned attorneys, who have nothing to prove but take time out to teach. The few that get selected are very lucky, and should be appreciative. I'm sure there are many others out there who would jump at the chance knowing full well they have no shot at getting a job afterwards.
Not having a job is entirely different, than not getting the job you want. What do the majority of students that do not get SA positions do? Fact of the matter is these individuals could probably perfectly good jobs elsewhere if it so required. They may not be the jobs they want or even legal jobs, but they pay the bills.
Job or no job, in the end it is invaluable experience, and they get paid generously for it. I think these individuals should be appreciative of the opportunities presented, and work their tails off. If they do not have a job in the end, then do what everyone else does: figure something out. I guarantee if they put half the energy into working as they are into complaining, then they will have a job - if not immediately, then 6 months a year down the line on a call back.
AIRCRAFT FINANCE TO 190K!!!!!!!!!
Shearman people: no matter how wonderful the summer program was last year, it's not going to fix your firm's reputation.
Less grumpy tipster here -
No, I am not with recruiting. In fact, I am getting ready to go to 8 AM class.
I just think crying over 2 weeks is ridiculous. What summer job pays this kind of money?
This isn't about the summers. It's about the incoming first years.
It's about both. Read the story.
However, I wouldn't be so understanding if I were an incoming, and my date was pushed.
6:56 - you're taking this out of context. First years and summers could have gone elsewhere and not faced these dilemmas. That's the point. Relatively speaking, they're getting the shaft. Compared to the rest of humanity, you're right--there's not much to complain about.
Well - yes, they could have gone somewhere else, but what's not to say that the same thing wouldn't happen at the other place they would have chosen.
No one can predict what's going to happen, which poses a risk that associates, incomings, and SA's -are experiencing.
With regards to the incomings, I do think that, yes - that really is not cool at all.
Sorry if I may not have been clear. I am speaking more with regards to the SA's.
I bet that last douchbag cc'd the email to the Pilsbury recruiting dept. Stupid kiss ass. He should value himself more or maybe start watching Dr Phil (another douchebag) to get better self esteem!
To 9:28am,
Who would cc any email sent to Above The Law? It seems to me any smart poster would avoid doing that... Even if it's to say something nice about the firm.
Plus, it seems to me if you lose your value because you have 10 weeks instead of 12 weeks, then it's time to revisit your value system.
This is a Tabloid folks. A self-professed TABLOID. Half of you people shouldn't be allowed to vote in a general election.
I just want to point out that incoming Pillsbury summers (at least in DC) did not have a confirmed salary or start and end dates when they accepted their offers, so any idea that that they are being robbed of something they had relied on is completely false.
2:45 - is that really the tact you want to take to attract qualified summers? Buyer beware?
Ideally no, but I think it's an appropriate to point out in response to the claim that they have "cut our salaries by 1/6."
The current 'industry norm' of these lavish pre-hire summer associate binges is economically insane and inefficient.
Mark my words, it will not last. I'm not being some legal equivalent of a Malthus scholar: I think overall salaries will continue to rise, business will be good, etc.
But every year, firms get more and more profit-maximizing business like - behaving like public corporations more than private partnerships in a professional field. And, in line with that behavior, they're going to cast a harsh light on the SA programs.
I think this SA concept peaked in the 'good times' of 200-2002. I think that we're already seeing kinks in the armor, and I think that, by the time we are truly through this economic downturn, we'll see at least one major firm (major, so that it can pull it off without losing too much cachet) fundamentally revising its SA program if not eliminating it alltogether.
Others will follow suit. By, say, 2020 (which isn't that far away) these lavish, profit-wasting, and inefficient as a means of economically screening SA programs will be a thing of the past.
Work in Pillsbury's LA office - no layoffs - most practice groups are busy. Haven't heard of any layoffs in other Pillsbury offices - wonder where the crazy rumours start?
I know I'm a little late to this thread, but as an incoming Pillsbury - Houston SA, I can say that there haven't been any cutbacks here. Of course, we in TX split our summers, so our original program is 6 weeks long, not 12.