This isn't surprising. I think everyone in Charlotte was waiting to see how Kennedy Covington would respond to the pilfering of many of its partners and associates to the national firms in town.

This is not a dive into the capital markets. KC's structured finance attorneys left for A&B last summer, and the leveraged finance group left for Winston Strawn a couple months ago.

Poor Preston Gates. Never should have gotten involved.

Yee haw.

i hear at KC they make you buy your own cokes and coffee.

Good luck to A&B and Winston with their two new underwater groups.

Economic downturns are the time for strategic growth. This merger would seem to make good sense for both firms.

The Charlotte legal market is a JOKE. There is now at least a 3-tier (correct me if I'm wrong) pay scale at 130/145/165 to start.

What rate do CLT associates get billed out at? Can the "national" firms in Charlotte (ready tiny offices that pull off low hanging fruit banking work and rarely make anyone partner) really bill out their associates at high enough rates to justfy?

I'm guessing that's why the local star, Moore & Van Allen gets consistent accolades and hasn't had to bow to the $160k pressure and still gets the best talent, from what I've heard.

Charlotte should never have been a "national" market. It's, if anything, a nice banking niche, but nothing more.

TTT TTT bLAh BLAH

1:10 is right on. The strong NC firms aren't paying the national firm salaries but arguably have more prestige and get better work. Either way, if BofA or Wachovia has top level work, they are sending it NYC anyways, no matter who has in office in CTL. Same is true for ATL.

1:10: there is a 3 tier system (130/145/160), but only two or three places are at 160. Most are at 130. MVA pays 145, I believe.

MVA isn't really the "local star." They're a nice local firm, but they're not any higher regarded than Robinson Bradshaw or Kennedy Covington. Most would dispute that they get the best talent. They get good talent, but not notably better than any of the other big, well paying places in town.

First years in CLT get billed out anywhere from $ 200 -400, depending on practice group.

I'm 1:28--I meant to change that last sentence to read "First through fourth years." I'm not intimately familar with the nat'l firm billing rates, but I'd be surprised to see a 1st year at 400.

Yeah, but 160k in charlotte gets you a 3-4 bedroom house with a pool and a country club membership. (I grew up in CLT).

That beats my 600 sq. ft. apartment in Manhattan, I must say.

And we don't work all weekend.

And we sleep with bardyard animals. Good luck finding those in NYC, suckas.

Go to any cost of living calculator and see what $145K in Charlotte is worth in NYC.

1:10 = MVA tool.

Funny, most of none of you know anything about KC...profitably is great and the groups that left did so because they wanted more money while their billings kept falling. Good business?

As far as MVA as great....you've just showed how much you know about the Charlotte market

KC is a sinking ship. MVA, Parker Poe, even Helms Mullis have overtaken it in Charlotte influence.

Kennedy who? I've at least heard of MVA before.

Who cares.

i saw K&L Gates and the name "Covington" and actually blinked.

but no, the world is as it was ... carry on

Good call 2:51. You truly show your knowledge of the Charlotte market by referring to Helms Mulliss, a firm that merged with McGuireWoods and no longer exists.

Even Charlotte attorneys will admit that MVA is the strongest local firm in Charlotte. I'm not at MVA, but I am in Charlotte. Are they miles ahead of RBH, old KC, old HMW, Parker Poe? No. Same league, but they are ahead. How they compete with the new MW and KL will be interesting.

2:51 here, I'm also in the Charlotte market, at Lolas for lunch and of to the golf this weekend. Maybe you we see me at the Penguin during the week, laughing at the sinking ship that was KC. The Helms Mullis reference was to emphasize what I think of KC. It has lost its top talent, it has lost its prestige and it has lost relevenace. KL welcome to them.

MVA has the deepest finance practice in town because of their historical ties to both banks. But their best folks aren't any "better" than the best folks at Winston, HMW (now MW), RBH or other firms---there are just more of them, and the bankers have their share of gripes about MVA just as they do for other firms. That said, the finance practice there is highly lucrative and feeds some of the other practice areas, although they have their share of "partners" in M&A, litigation, real estate, etc. who aren't doing any better (and many who are doing worse) than their counterparts across the street.

I've been practicing in Charlotte for close to 20 years and I certainly wouldn't characterize MVA as the "strongest local firm." They make, on balance (and because of their finance practice), more money, but if you move down the line and look at business litigation, corporate/M&A, and real estate, they are certainly not at the top of the local list in any of those areas, although they have some very good lawyers in those practices.

KCLH is a fine firm that has taken some very big hits in the last 9 months, and is in danger of losing more folks if they don't do something to stabilize and support certain practice areas. Being swallowed up by K&L Gates (the only one of a number of larger firms that KCLH approached that had any continued interest) may be a good near-term solution to instability, but it will forever alter the nature of their firm and will change the outlook and atmosphere for their young lawyers, most of whom joined that firm in large measure because they liked the size, structure, and local nature. That's about to end.

KC lost its top talent? As in the people who inserted trustee fee rates into CWT and TPW's documents for years while thinking they understood securitization? Please.

6;20, you are right of course, but it was *their* top talent, but you are correct they certainly were not *charlotte's* top talent. Have you seen some of the losers left behind? Their RE group is a collection of hangers on, hasbeens and neverweres.

@6:36, really? I'm not at KC, and I'm not a real estate lawyer, but isn't it pretty much conventional wisdom that they have the strongest dirt real estate practice in town?

6:36 = buffoon.

6:08 = Was KC, now at Winston & Strawn

7:27 = correct

4:11 here--with the most lucrative and biggest finance practice and comparable practices in the other groups, I still think MVA is strongest. I'll emphasize again that it isn't miles ahead, and I think the people at RBH, MW, Parket Poe and KC are just as skilled as the lawyers at MVA. But I also think there's a reason MVA merger rumors/annoucements aren't flying around town. They are strong enough to exercise more control as the market changes.

And KC definitely has/had the best RE practice, at least that was always what I've heard.

KC absolutely has the best RE group in all of NC (and you can throw SC in there as well). Top to bottom, in terms of work and talent (numbers and quality), it's not even close. The lawyers they lost were paid exorbitant amounts by national firms looking to break in to the CLT market. They were not core groups for KC and were not particularly profitable.

This merger will probably end up being a good thing for the KC folks and will allow them to deepen all practice areas and compete with the national firms. People are hating just to hate.

MVA has a good finance practice but they are together with KC and RBH in the top tier of prestigious CLT firms, with MW (formerly HMW) falling in that second tier. KC and RBH both have very strong relationships with both banks.

K&L Gates is just looking for more cities to suck in.

Not affiliated with any of the Charlotte based firms...but it's worth noting that KC has the best private equity shop in Charlotte. MVA has a few key corporate clients but the bench strength in their corporate group is weak compared to RBH and KC. If you've been in Clt long enough, you really are not reading or posting on this anyway because you know it's all written by people who have perceptions but no reality.

Breaking news: K&L Gates STILL unable to find Chicago on a map.

Just curious - we've heard about the Charlotte layoffs and renegging on offers - is all Charlotte transactional work tanking? What about R.E.? Which Charlotte firms continue to get real estate work in this market?

Alston picking up the KC group during a downturn in the credit market was about the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Kudos for the partner who spearheaded that fiasco.

Who cares about the merger of TTT firms?

6:36- fucking assclown.