She will be a summer associate at Kirkland in New York this summer.

*projectile vomits out the window*

Yale eats shit--and so does the author of this crappy article.

Author will never cut it in a lawfirm...hopefully she went to Yale to become a future professor so she can tell her students to be nice.

Is anyone else getting Jedediah Purdy flashbacks? Does she also "contemplate" her lemonade as she drinks it? And, good golly, she's got herself a resolution. http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/2003_04/fulltext/hr309.htm
I'm speechless.

So I just read the Post article by the Yale 1L. Not only is it very badly written (can we just banish the word "plethora"?), it's nauseatingly self-righteous. Is whining about her classmates to the readership of the Post her idea of nice?

Here's a thought: given that she's only attended Ivy League schools, what makes her think the students at other schools would be any different?

She's kinda - and I mean *KINDA* cute. Hard to tell, the Facebook picture can go either way: http://profile.ak.facebook.com/profile5/1120/27/s1106077_3587.jpg

Not terribly interested in Y1L's hotness, but I think she has a point. These overcompetitive turds make me want to yack on a regular basis. If you want to be a master of the universe, man up and do it without playing the whole compassion card. Found a hedge fund, join blackwater, start an organ-harvesting business, whatever. But when you start a campaign against hunger and discrimination against people who smell bad b/c they can't afford showers, don't act grossed out by people who don't sport bespoke suits.

smell ya--

biglawscotch

Um, the article seemed kinda spot on to me. Clearly those bashing it are who she was talking about...

think about it Y1L - who would rather want as president to tell some 3rd world nation to stop committing genocide? a nice person, or a hardass bitch? and i don't see how taking out the trash is linked to the moral fabric of america.

It's been nailed on the head: She's a self-righteous shit. And possibly cute (definitely "law cute"--like a reason to go to yet another summer associate cocktail party/dinner if you work at Kirkland NY--not sure if she's rest-of-the-world-(other-than-MBAs) cute).

Niceness is overrated, especially in our line of work where it will only get you shit on--by partners who will dump more work on you, peers who will stab you in the back, and women (on those rare chances when I remember how to talk to them, and how to talk about something other than indemnification). Let her work for 41 hours straight pounding out a purchase agreement and then see how "nice" she is.

Self-aggrandizing "look at me" nonsense, and nothing more. Yale is pretty much the most laid back place that ever existed.

Oh, and the comment about Jed Purdy is spot-on.

An honest show about the lives of SCOTUS clerks would be pretty much the most boring show ever made. Who wants to watch nerds writing memos all day? Not even lawyers would find that mildly interesting.

"Nice" is for average people with no remarkable qualities. Think about the friend who attempts to set you up on a date. If they say the person is "nice" you know two things immediately. One, they are not very good looking. Two, they are very smart either.

My favorite Ivy league type is the hypocritical feminist. They go to Ivy league schools so they talk about how some girls disrespect them selves, then go out get hammered and screw random dudes.

- Maybe its finals time frustration, but god I hate hypocritical philosophical people.

I'm a little confused as to how trashing her Princeton and Yale Law classmates qualifies as "nice." In fact, it appears to be precisely the self-aggrandizing, hypocritical behavior she complains of.

Despite this, I agree that she has a point -- the nice ones, the genuinely collegial and supportive ones, often get left behind and go underappreciated. I think this is particularly true in BigLaw.

co-sign 9:09, para. 1.

I liked the 1L article and actually thinks she makes some good points. Nice can get you places that a-hole won't. All things being equal, if you have to choose who to hire and who to fire, wouldn't you pick nice?

9:55, that assumes two things:

1) That all her classmates are really "a-holes." I find it pretty doubtful that this was the case at BOTH of her schools. Maybe she should should look for the common denominator at both places.

2) It assumes that she is actually "nice." Once again, 9:09 hit it right on the head. There is nothing "nice" about trashing your classmates while bragging about your Ivy credentials.

Yale 1L seems to have hit a nerve. Lot of sharing the love going on. Maybe all the nice people are out with friends and only the shits are still in the office.

Assuming Y1L is correct, why is she being mean? Perhaps hypocritical if she herself isn't nice, but the article in and of wouldn't be mean, it would be accurate.

Regarding that assumption, I think she is somewhat correct (though perhaps she extends her argument too far). People who have their eyes so closely fixed to the top sometimes seem to forget to pay attention to those they actually interact with on a daily basis; though I can't imagine we aren't all a bit guilty of it. Moreover, it isn't hard to do what she is asking; it isn't incompatible with ambition. People who think that are just to lazy to be conscientious.

If the whole point of the article is to talk about how people at top schools aren't nice, how can she demonstrate this without saying how she came to that conclusion (i.e., by going to top schools). I don't really get the bragging comments.

"Nice" is for average people with no remarkable qualities."

Hahah, wow, something tells me you may not be nice.

For her to be hypocrytical, doesn't she have to claim to be nice herself? I don't think she says that, I think people are assuming she views herself as nice.

Why is that article in a national newspaper when it belongs, at most, in the Yale law student fishwrap?

Spot on. Far too often I see these entitled pukes kiss the rear ends of the Partners while in the same breath verbally abuse the support staff. Idiots. On the other hand, they are helping me out: since they piss-off the very folks whose help they'll need at 3 am, they look like tools while I'll get the job done with my public ivy degree and a little kindness.

Spot on. Far too often I see these entitled pukes kiss the rear ends of the Partners while in the same breath verbally abuse the support staff. Idiots. On the other hand, they are helping me out: since they piss-off the very folks whose help they'll need at 3 am, they look like tools while I'll get the job done with my public ivy degree and a little kindness.

umm....what's a "public ivy"?

It's called self-delusion, 10:03, and it's all that's holding 9:52 together.

Wait, stop the presses, there are self-indulgent hypocrites at Ivy League schools! There are self-important, entitled, privileged, liberal "I wanna change/save the world types" who will wind up in corporate America only a few years later ignoring the homeless and the environment except for the charity galas and golf classics they yearly attend. Wow, that was new to me!

I'll bet the Supreme Court show would have had an episode in the first season about abortion law, and how "difficult" the decision is. Oh, and the bad guy would be someone who was against abortion and religious, who was also a hypocrite (e.g. paid for an abortion, had an abortion, etc.)

Screenwriters are so predictable and unflagging in their propaganda.

I think Cornell is the only public Ivy.

>

Sucks to be you. Or to have to deal with you.

Isn't the State University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia a "public ivy"?

I guess there's no room on national TV for shows about junior attorneys - anyone remember Girls Club on Fox??? The show about "the the lives of three young female lawyers willing to leave their marks on the legal system. Set in the always romantic and very agitated city of San Francisco, Girls Club explores the personal and professional relationships of these women that aim for sucess, despite working in a male-dominated environment."

I remember one of the episodes was about one of the first year associates being upset that had she spent an entire night in the library working on a research memo and then the more senior back-stabbing associate got to second-chair the trial, not her.

wow, so yale sounds like a mean place by this. harvard is nothing like that, i don't know why it's different but people are so very nice & swap outlines all the time without even being asked, just by noticing if someone is stressed. maybe because our new dean kicks butt and spent the entire first week coming to meet our classes and saying ad nauseum that the competitions over and we already won so just make friends here and enjoy the ride, because nobody will care about our grades. which should be true at yale, so it's sad that they're still nasty.

public ivy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Ivy

That Georgia Legislature resolution is hilarious! And she went to the Woodrow Wilson School, so she isn't just talking about Yale or 1L's.

11:06 - seriously? Harvard 1L's are so very nice? not in my day ...

11:18, as someone who went to one of those for law school (and to one of the "25 New Ivies" for undergrad), it's just embarassing (and delusional, as has been noted). That "____-Ivy" terminology sucks and screams insecurity. Sure, they are good schools with some smart folks, but this "Ivy" talk makes me cringe.

Lay off. That 1L is an incredibly kind, charismatic and fun person who speaks her mind. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with her article, there's no need for personal attacks. It's just an opinion piece, expressing a provocative opinion. Sheesh.

This 1L bases her whole thesis on a fallacious assumption -- the idea that people at YLS are any nicer or less nice than the people at average law schools. She doesn't attempt to support this assumption, which isn't surprising, because it's baloney. I'd like to know where in the world she thinks you can find a group of 600+ young people that doesn't include a bunch of jerks.

I think Princeton/Yalie types are different than students at most other schools - a those schools you have a much higher percentage of people that have always been #1 at everything and the "best" at everything and have a resulting entitlement/attitude problem.

12:49, get real. She put herself out there with her absurd, preachy, self-(fill in the blank) piece. Provacative my ass. "Naive" is a better description. Go back to studying torts.

" i don't know why it's different but people are so very nice & swap outlines all the time without even being asked"

This is ridiculous. Everyone at Yale shares outlines. The Yale Law Women even keep a master database in trhe library, and anyone can get copies any time they want.

Yes, there are a significant number of stressed out, unpleasant people in every class. There are people like that everywhere. There are also 100 or so people in every class who take advantage of the fact that Yale does not have grades, enjoy their 3 years, and guzzle beers at lame bars like GYPCY.

I think whoever cleared her op-ed for publishing went to a state school and enjoyed the ivy league bashing. Her article was so poorly written that no other explanation makes sense.

The word "nice" doesn't mean anything anymore. The only people who use it are ditzy high school girls or parents so entirely uninterested in disciplining their children they just yell "be nice!" every so often. She should have used more meaningful adjectives like "humble" or "generous."

Alternatively, she could have written an article with more depth on issues of intellectual consistency and intellectual honesty. Having gone to a top 3 liberal arts college and a top 5 law school, I know for a fact that some of these students' humanitarian "accomplishments" are grossly exaggerated or completely fabricated. Further, even for those that are honest, most were not altruistic but done entirely for the purpose of gaining college admission. This is the real problem, not some subjective, superficial "niceness" issue.

co-sign 2:55

I don't know why we'd expect "niceness" from a group of students who we've tought to be superficially interested in helping others in order to get into college (EVERY Ivy applicant now starts food drives, volunteers abroad, campaigns to save the rain forest, interns, etc.) rather than genuinely interested in these issues. We then reward this shallow pretense with admission into the elite schools and then expect humility and compassion? Please. Dealing with these self-absorbed, self-important brats is part of working in biglaw.

2:57 = 2:55. Try waiting a few minutes longer before you co-sign yourself.

B.S. I am 2:57. I was not 2:55. The timing was just lucky.

Is it not conceivable that one other person could possibly agree with what was said by 2:55?

Wow. Tony Zirkle's website is a total gas. I'm sending everyone I know to it for a good laugh. Is this guy for real? Who really believes all this stuff? The "Derringers for Dildos" campaign post was my personal fave.

I've been in a lot of settings with a lot of extremely intelligent (and semi-intelligent and not so intelligent) people. Universally ... and I really do mean universally ... I've found that

p((intelligence, competence, understanding)

is inversely proportional to

magnitude of (assholishness).

Not saying that you can't do great as an asshole. Not saying you won't find people at the top of their class who are.

But, the reality is that, the ultra-capable people in this world don't NEED to be biting, striving, bitter, arrogant, mean people. It's the middleweights ... the 'gifted' but not genius set spawned from the 90s feel good era, that tends to be the most jerky.

It's amazing to me how many people have proved the Yale 1L's point for her with their unnecessarily nasty comments. Looks like it really hit close to home for some people.

It'd be one thing if she was a big ugly bitch. But she's super friendly, pretty, and well-liked. Maybe a bit idealistic, sure, but we have enough cynics in this world already.

"It'd be one thing if she was a big ugly bitch. But she's super friendly, pretty, and well-liked."

Actually, this makes it much worse. If she were, as you "nicely" posit, a "big ugly bitch," that would at least partly explain her lashing out. Since she is neither big nor ugly, that leaves little in the way of explanation except self-aggrandizement. As for your last factor, well, she did brag about her Ivy credentials while throwing a tantrum and attacking her classmates in a nationally-read newspaper. Res ipsa loquitur.

Actually I think she was thoughtful and gracious. People are making it more controversial than it actually is. She wrote down what most of us think. Big deal. Her "classmates" sound a little wrapped up in themselves and insecure, if you ask me.

"Her 'classmates' sound a little wrapped up in themselves and insecure, if you ask me."

Only if we assume that her characterization of them is correct. A number of comments above have disputed that. Some have even pointed to proof that her specific examples (not being able to get notes, boo hoo) are not accurate. But hey, why let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Umm, op-eds aren't really the kind of thing that are "correct" or "incorrect". Its highly likely that some people at some schools have had her experience, some people have had worse experiences, and some people have had better experiences. It's a social commentary that's supposed to be thought-provoking (and clearly succeeded, given all the hubbub).

1:18 sounds like one of the classmates nervous that the article is about him/her.

Good one, Surfing around the web at 4:23 AM looking for references to your lame op-ed, so that you can anonymously defend it. That's "nice."

um i am pretty sure girls like her go to bed at 10 PM sharp every night

I've known this girl for years, so I've gotta put in a plug: Amelia, you are great! (and so is your article!)