Why would there be any shame in that? Nice kiss up Lat. The shame is they are in a cut throat business and it is their own throat being cut. The exist to make money and they can't do it right now.
Good firms love to have an associate they can pay 200K and bill out for revenue for 800K each year. E.g., Cravath took on 160 summers, even more than the year before. They, and other top shops, are eating the shameful firms lunch right now. If is was at KL Gates right now, my resume would be floating all over the market.

Just to hammer it home - If Jim, in payroll accounting, annouced that he hasn't got laid in months, "would there be any shame in that?" Yes. Yes there would be.

My start date just got pushed back to October 20, 2011.

Hope these delayed start dates come with bigger salary advances. How do you pay rent for 4 months with no job and no new student loans? Plus, student loan payments start sometime around December. That's a mess if you are in that situation.

Top firms don't need to do this because top legal talent hits the ground running from day one, often with their own book of business.

Let's say my firm asks for volunteer new associates to take a later start date, in order to "stagger new entry" and "ease scheduling."

Is there risk in taking my firm up on its offer, aside from a delayed paycheck? What are the chances, should the economy and firm meet harder times in the fall, that those associates with the latest start dates are the first trimmed from the payroll?

"crazy scheduling" is the funniest attempt at an excuse I have seen from any of these firms. How long has the firm been bringing in new associates? And they have like 1,500 attorneys. You would think they could figure this out after 50 years.

It really is just laughable. They should have just said it was due to the earthquakes in China. It would make exactly the same amount of sense.

the way i see it, a later start date is better than a rescinded job offer

2:01 -

The risk is that you are going to a TTT firm and they will immediately start canning associates (of any class/starting date) if it means they will increase PPP by $5.

2:20 - a later start date and a rescinded job offer are NOT mutually exclusive as you seem to (naively) believe.

"top legal talent hits the ground running from day one, often with their own book of business"

2:00pm, you're an idiot. i am at one of the big boy v10 firms, and no one has "their own book of business" as a first year.

"later start date is better than a rescinded job offer"

today's later start date is tomorrow's poor work review

2:01- Don't volunteer for that. First, have some self-respect and realize that the firm has given you an offer with an understood start date and is now trying to change the agreement to your detriment. Unless you've got a compelling reason to voluntarily delay (maybe some kind of important family obligation that you would not have been able to attend with the original date), ask for the original date. Second, if the firm is already slow, taking the later date may disadvantage you as to forming working relationships and getting billable hours.

With that said, I do not believe that starting later would materially affect your career in any manner, but for the other reasons I've already stated, it's a bad move.

A later start date is practically a rescinded offer. Good luck making hours with no work to be had. Writing your poor review will take 30 seconds, especially as they cut and paste from the other reviews for other quality associates who are getting screwed by firms to maintain their bloated and complete bullshit "profits." Hell, they can partners in the name of puffery. You know what they say about animals who kill and eat their own kind...

Agree with 2:17 - pathetic that firm like K&L couldn't come up with something better than "crazy scheduling". It never dealth with an incoming class of first years? Never held a partner retreat before?

2:41 here - pls excuse typo - work distracted me.

2:34: That's nonsense. Many firms only count hours starting in January, and those that count hours from day one tend to base them on your first full year there (whenever it happens to end). I've never heard of a firm that would ding you for only having been at the firm for two months of a calendar year.

2:33: To the contrary, while I'd worry about starting at all at a firm that didn't have work for me, I don't think you're at much of a disadvantage if a big chunk of your starting class is delayed too. It's also not exactly a great career move to start out acting like a jerk by opposing the firm's requests.

If you can't afford to delay, I think you're justified in telling the firm that and asking for some kind of compromise--they're asking you to go without pay, after all. But if you can afford it--and this goes whether or not the firm asks it of you--I'd take the latest date that you can. As an associate, time is more precious than money--enjoy a nice chunk of time off while you can.

Other than Cravath, are any other firms actually hiring more and kicking all the other firms asses?

Firms that move back start dates are firms that lay off their associates. They should both be shunned during OCI alike.

Props, 2:17. Earthquakes in China is balls on.

I blame it all on global warming. Though earthquakes in china may be playing a small role.

Wanna Hakkah Lugie no like starting date postponement.

2:00, that may be single most idiotic comment I've read on here. Seriously.

How exactly does the firm expect its incoming associates to study for/pass the bar, pay 5 months of rent, and pay for (and find) temporary health insurance at the same time? This is especially insulting in cities where the firm gives NO summer stipend to its associates (i.e. Boston). In a final blow, nice job of announcing this on a Friday afternoon in the middle of May. Way to give folks a heads up.

2:00pm PWNS!

First year associates at top firms used to bring their own seven figure books with them all the time, it was no big deal.

3:34 -- what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

2:49- I'd agree that you don't want to act like a jerk starting off-- I wasn't suggesting otherwise.

However, if given the choice, I wouldn't volunteer for the late start date given the two reasons I stated above. Let someone else play nice, take the 15k hit and start after you've hit the ground running.

On Pillsbury:

Here in SF, they gave us a choice of 3 start dates: 10/1, 11/15, or 1/5. With the November start, they offered a $5k bonus and with the January start they offered a $10k bonus. Both bonuses could be combined with an extra $10k interest-free loan and both were on top of the $10k salary advance promised in our offer letter.

Supposedly this is a firm-wide policy and is good for all 80 incoming first-years.

Better than a rescinded offer for sure.

I think 3:36 may be the dumbest to ever grace this fine site.

They give you more money for not working?

I think 3:34 is hilarious. 3:36: you suck!

K&L is a TTT joke. Who cares. If you are not working at Skadden or Cravath, does it really matter?

2:27 and 3:10 - you are both idiots and have clearly never heard of humor. While 2:00pm's attempt at humor might not have hit the mark, it was clearly not intended as a serious comment. Stop being jackasses.

4:02 - that is exactly what Brobeck did. What, you say you've never heard of Brobeck?!?! I wonder why that is.....

I would be curious to know if the Kennedy Covington merger/acquisition had anything to do with this decision.

4:24 - not so subtle Skadden trolling

Agree with 5:50. Skadden does some good work and gets some big deals, but it's a relatively un-selective meat-grinder.

Crazy scheduling? Like when that firm was damn near the last firm to move off the "wall of shame" last year (remember ny to 190?) and when it did, it was a totally-fucked tiered system that mostly paid below market after 2 years? I'm guessing the problems are a little bigger than a faulty day-planner.

May God have mercy on your resume.

(btw: 2:00 is hilarious. though I appreciate some of you losing your sense of humor)

If you happen to be at CSM or some other big NY firm or top of your class at a top 10 law school, spit on KLG all you want. For all those that are up to your eyeballs in debt, remember that old adage about beggers....

2:52: White & Case, Goodwin Procter, and Ropes & Gray expanded their summer associate classes for 2008 for some offices.

Can confirm that Goodwin Procter and Ropes expanded their summer classes. Goodwin has something absurd like 100 summers this year in its Boston office. The Boston legal market seems to have developed a pretty clear "Big 3" as well.

Can confirm that 8:31 and 8:35 are the same person.

Nope, I live in Boston and couldn't tell you one thing about White & Case if my life depended on it. - 8:35.

ropes has 180 summers firmwide

Bryan Cave moved back start dates to September 29th or something like that from September 15th. It is only two weeks, but that is something.

When I was at Sidley, first years always showed up whenever they pleased. I gathered that any effort to get them to show up before October would have been fought, as it seemed to interfere with fabulous world travel. Seriously, if it is your last taste of freedom before slaving away, I'd take it and and a credit card and have some fun. But if you're just delaying a start to join a slow office, maybe you could spend the time waiting tables.

Query what firms do with folks coming off of clerkships. Mine started / ended in September, so we just rolled off of one job (where it seemed that our admins made more than we did) and into another ($ -- finally!).

Just wanted to confirm that the Pillsbury scheme is national. I'm going to NY and was offered the exact same options: Oct. 1, Nov. 15 with a $5k bonus, or Jan. 1 with a $10k bonus, plus an optional $10k advance on top of the usual $10k advance. If you really wanted to travel for an extra month or volunteer or something, the later options are terrific.

I was a first year at Preston Gates (pre-merger) in 2003, and half of our class had start dates pushed back. Half of us started Oct. 1 (as originally scheduled), while the other half started Dec. 1. We were notified sometime over the summer, but I can't remember whether it was before or after the bar. Either way, everyone's hours sucked that year, but I don't know that anyone was especially dinged for it, since it was pretty much across the board, regardless of start date.

When I came out, you got to choose your start date. Firms took this option away when staff got sick of doing telephone training 30 times for all the staggered starts. I started in late October and it was one of the best decisions I ever made. Yeah, money was tight, but I was already poor and one extra month off to sleep, hang out with family, etc was sooo worth it.

I am graduating in Dec, taking the Feb Bar and originally suppose to start work in May 2009. My firm just let me know they would postponing my start date by 5 months -- until oct.

I have already signed year lease to move to the new city and have already started bar classes and moved all my stuff. Now I have 8 months of rent with NO income in LA. Clearly I wouldn't have moved out to LA had they let me know this even a month ago, I would have waited for the July bar etc.

The firm has offered me no compensation -- are other people getting compensation for delayed start dates. And isn't 5 months a severe postponement? What are other people seeing?

Shearman start dates are November 30, 2009. i'm one of the unlucky ones who will seek what to do for 6 months after i graduate!