FIRST to say have fun, but not TOO much fun, and take your work seriously.

Advice: Don't take your 1-month old child to the poker night. You'll probably spill beer on her and look like an idiot. If you can't find someone to watch your kid (or you don't want to have someone else watch your kid), leave your spouse at home with the kid unless the firm has specifically made it a child-friendly event and specifically invited children (e.g., if there were a kid's fair, which there won't be). Don't bring a guest unless a guest is invited.

Seems like the old adage is true: Third the Turd

Any news on Schulte layoffs?

Determining whether to bring a guest can be tough, and you don't want to be the only person with a guest. Don't ask the recruiters whether you should bring a guest because they'll always say "Sure!" in their perky little way. Ask a senior associate whether he/she is bring his/her spouse/whatever.

Not to pile on PHJW or anything but remember this story:

http://www.abovethelaw.com/2006/09/summer_associates_stories.php

Timing of day

how early do i need to get there?
how early can i leave?

In New York, be in by 9:30. As for leaving, on nights when no SA event is planned, stay until at least 7:00.

With many firms starting their summer programs today, can anyone comment on the likelihood of a V100 Firm giving me a summer associate position this cycle? I graduated Magna Cum Laude from Hofstra and will be going to B-School at Zarb in the fall, but I would like to do a summer associate gig this summer before I go to B-School.

Thanks,

HM

I am desperately awaiting summer associate scandals and horror stories.

Watch the booze/partying. I have seen multiple instances where associates stay out late partying at an evening summer event, and then either arrive late the next day (when a meeting or other event was scheduled) or completely miss an early morning event - these were all completely ridiculous because the summer typically did not have to "do" anything- they were just supposed to attend as a courtesy to them/learning experience. Also, relatedly, remember that the attorneys at the firm are not just your "friends", they are your employers and reviewers, so do not get too "casual".

Hey, the alcohol wouldn't be free if they didn't want you to drink a great deal of it. So man up to the bar and order Jaeger bombs for everyone (two for the hiring partner).

1:28 - what city are you in?

What kind of TTT firm throws an event where you can't bring a guest??

10-5 is good for NYC. Staying until 7 is for herbs.

Dress on the first day.

I'm a UChicago student, so I won't be starting until the last start date. Do I still wear a suit, even though all the summers have gone to business casual by then as they have been working for a few weekends? (and the firm is business casual in general)

Always order dessert and coffee. Take your time and enjoy them both.

"Also, relatedly, remember that the attorneys at the firm are not just your "friends", they are your employers and reviewers, so do not get too "casual"."

I.e., always use a condom.

Try to stand out as the "party animal" in your class. Drink more and work less than anyone else. The lawyers at your firm all know this is a game, and they're looking to see who plays it best.

You want to be the Summer Associate equivalent of the guy who got the lowest possible passing score on the Bar Exam.

Advice: sleep with as many attorneys in the firm as possible, this will ensure favorable reviews at the end of summer.

1:34, at every firm I've been involved with, there are lots of events where guests are allowed but no one actually brings one (usually smaller things like happy hours/dinner right after work on a weekday).

Just a general piece of advice for the ladies. Don't date associates, SA's or partners just because they're established, well-off and wield some authority. Power shouldn't be the greatest aphrodisiac. It may seem like a good idea to fawn all over an established attorney (esp. compared to law school schlubs), but most of these guys are damaged goods. When you're finally his equal, that beer belly, balding pate, arrogance, anal retentiveness and better-than-thou personality won't be that cute anymore. Trust me, I've seen it happen a dozen times.

1:28,

Being a summer associate is an amazing thing. You barely have any work to do, you go out to lunch for several hours a day, you go to ritzy paries with open bars at least once a week and get paid a boatload of money to do it. That said, a great way to lose an offer is getting greedy. If you only have to work 3 hours a day, don't bitch about it and try to work 2 hours a day. Don't skip the very expensive nightime events so you can hang out with your douche bag friends. Etc.

As for specific times, 9:30 to 5:30 at the very least - but try to come in earlier when you first start (you'll have nothing to do, and there's no reason to come in early, but it'll make a good first impression if you do).

1:28 = nyc v10

To UChicago student: Wear a suit. Most people wear a suit on their first day, and it shows that you take the job seriously. You don't absolutely have to, and probably no one else will be wearing one, but there is a small risk of offending someone if you don't wear a suit, so why take that risk.

1:37(2) = Barack Obama?

1:41 best advice ever.

Too bad the pictured "babe" for this article is such a fatty. More "babe the talking pig" and less "perfect 10."

If you fuck up, you can still get a good job. For example, I know that the "Katten Kreep" traded up during OCI.

The partners and associates are always watching you at every event. 100% focus is always needed to survive.

Have we finally gotten the Kash bikini pic we've been lobbying for?

When a senior associate is talking to you, don't make eye contact with them. Stare at a spot on their forehead until they think something is on their face and then when they walk away snicker loud enough for them to hear you. Repeat as often as necessary.

Before you start, write down how you envision your life and career eight years from now and seal it in an envelope. Eight years from now after taking the inevitable offer (you have to be either socially retarded or just plain retarded not to get an offer) open the envelope, cry then shoot yourself.

Hey Lovely Summer, relax, take off your shoes, kick back, unwind. Would you like a glass of champagne? No, no, the good stuff always fizzes like that. Imbibe already

-BIngham 'mentor'

1:36 - "Always order dessert and coffee. Take your time and enjoy them both." 2 hour lunches = 2 hours more I have to bill that day before I can leave work and see my real friends. Don't be greedy and inconsiderate.

FRESH FISH!!!

Reel 'em in, boys and girls.

"2 hour lunches = 2 hours more I have to bill that day before I can leave work and see my real friends."

Then don't go to lunch in the first place, whiner.

your summer should be all about models and bottles
http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=307736763

Summer if you want to make a friend, offer to pick up my dry cleaning and then pay for it.

Try not to consume a 12 pack while sharing a golf cart with a very senior partner at the firm outing (true story). Try to solicit or get assigned to some pro bono work. If they are busy, most associates love giving this shit away b/c it cuts into their profitability (read: bonus). But, it is real work that usually gets a lot less handholding and supervision because the stakes are much lower. You won't be practicing law, but it will be pretty damn close, especially on the transactional side.

I find your patronizing, dismissive attitude of ACLU-type summer jobs repulsive. These jobs are actually much harder to get than jobs at socalled "BigLaw" firms, which are essentially looking for warm bodies to fill slots.

Ordinarily I would say not to worry - you have to do something pretty egregious to lose that offer. Chances are you've had a job someplace before, and you know what's expected of you. If you don't, then there's no advice to give you that will help.

That said, this summer the market is different. Firms may be looking to no-offer some summers in lieu of lay offs or other budget cuts. So, in an excess of caution, consider your summer a 6 week job interview, and make sure to at least follow the basic rules:

(a) be a professional: respond quickly to e-mails and phone calls, bring a pen and pad to every meeting, be attentive and upbeat even if what you're doing sucks; always show the proper respect to everyone - from janitor to partner

(b) don't tell anyone anything you wouldn't tell your new girlfriend/boyfriend's mother;

(c) no more than two drinks at any event;

(d) when in doubt always dress-up rather than dress-down;

(e) show up at or before 9:30, every day

(f) always leave at 6:00 or later, as required

(g) do every assignment, on time, to the best of your ability, no matter how stupid

(h) you are always available to work, at any time, even weekends (thank you sir, may I have another...)

(i) until further notice, you work for your secretary, not the other way around. you ask for help, nicely, only when you can't do something yourself.

Whats an ACLU?

2:07 - dude, I totally did that and I almost yakked because it was 120 degrees on the course. In fact, I probably know who you are, and we were there together. Get back to work, I know you're busy.

Don't be lazy and disrespectful. I was shocked by the laziness and disrespect by some top 5 law school summers who were so convinced that they were getting an offer that they didn't spellcheck or proofread emails or memos before sending, would (in response to a research request) cut and paste the descriptions of cases from westlaw without any explanation (or re-formatting), demanded 2 hour fancy lunches everyday, didn't show up to summer events associates had spent time planning, etc. Although it is true that my V10 firm gave everyone offers (which is frustrating since it rewards this type of entitled, spoiled attitude), that's not the complete end of the story. Now some associates who are in charge of delegating work to these junior associates don't trust these associates enough to give them more substantive/interesting work and assign that work to the former summers who showed more respect and a better work ethic.

2:07 --- ha ha ha ha ha.

This is 2:08 again, just need to correct a typo: I forgot "each half hour" at the end of "no more than two drinks at any event."

ACLU lawyers don't have a sense of humor, apparently.

2:07 is obviously angry that no one wanted to fill their slot with his/her warm body.

You do not own your support staff. Only the partners get to scream at and insult your support staff.

Everyone knows how much money you are making. Don't be an ass. Skaddan Bottles could have paid for that booze himself.

You've been to college, right? You know how much you can drink before you do something really stupid? Yeah, one less than that.

1:57 = hilarious

2:16=Hiyo!

2:11

I doubt it. It was last summer, and it definitely wasn't that hot out. Stupid kid. I was in his foursome, and I suggested he might want to "settle down a bit" when he was six beers deep coming in off the front. He ignored my advice though. It didn't help the kid had never played before in his life, and said partner was probably a 3 or 4 handicap. It was painful to watch. I couldn't believe the kid got an offer.

I tore my ACLU once. That sucked.

2:11 makes good points. The only two kids who didn’t get offers in my summer class were from top 5 schools. They did sloppy work and didn’t go to events. It’s not easy to lose an offer, but these two did enough. And make no mistake, it’s REALLY hard to find another job when you don’t get an offer. If you can’t handle being a summer associate (the easiest job in the world), nobody is going to hire you to be a real associate.

Don't listen to 1:41, just some bitter old woman.

Please please, if you are an attractive female SA date male junior associates. We don't have much time to meet people and we are only a few years older than you and we can make sure that you actually have a good time. Finally you don't have to worry that we actually have enough power to sink your offer. As long as you aren't jerks to us we won't hurt you anyway. Just be nice and we can all have a good time.

Is ACLU the American College Law University? Didn't we already decide that was TTT along with UPenn State?

Don'ts

1. Don't be stupid.

2. Don't be an asshole.

3. Don't be greedy.

4. Don't get carried away by all the pampering and coddling. Start thinking you deserve it (you don't), and you will fall into 1-3 above. Appreciate it and you will be fine.

Do's
1. Do good work.

2. Be professional.

3. Have fun and make friends, but

4. Remember you are still applying for a job.

My best advice would be to

a) be good at golf. Not "I have messed around before" but I actually know what I am doing and have all of my own stuff. You don't have to be amazing, but know all of the rules and be able to break 100. Chances are most of the partners aren't much better than that anyway since they don't get play to all that much.

b) as long as you are a) then just let it be known around the firm that you'd like to play with anyone that wants to go and don't turn them down when they offer. Yeah getting up at 8 am on your Saturday to drive out (or be picked up) to the partner's CC kind of sucks. But you get great small group social time with the partners and they will love you and give you / want all of the good firm gossip.

Also, while sometimes you lose your weekend mornings, you often also get invited to go out during the week as well. Nothing feels as great as bouncing out of the office at noon on a Friday afternoon because the managing partner of the office is taking you out to play. Nobody will care that you skipped crappy training 8 and didn't bill your 3 hours of work for the day since you'll just tell them that you got invited out with Partner X.

Seriously, being a golfer was the best thing ever for my summer. I became real close with a bunch of the partners and SAs that many other summers never even met. These people didn't want to deal with the huge summer events but were more than happy to take me out to play golf. I also of course got to play some great courses for free and would get free lunch / drinks out at the CCs on the weekends.

Your draft memos should be at least as good as what you would turn in for a first-submission grade in your legal writing classes. That means no bullet points, editorializing, other lit writing BS, etc.

Heard of a summer and a junior associate who were nearly terminated for submitting a bullet-point style "draft" of a legal memo to corner office partner who actually needed the research.

don't try to be too smart or go above and beyond your assignments. you don't understand enough of how what you are being asked to do fits in with the bigger project and what is useful.

i disagree that being in by 9:30 a.m. is sufficient. depends on where you work... try to be there on the early side of when people come in where you sit. in some groups, being early is perceived as being hard-working and professional.

HofstraMagna -

Really?

Okay, I'll bite; absolutely zero.

Be vocal about your support for Barack Obama. This is especially important this summer, since an Obama loss would pretty much extinguish all hope for this country.

To Hofstra Magna:

Despite being "magna" you show a remarkable lack of EQ.

First, since, this post is a welcome to people starting their jobs, it might, for instance, have dawned on you that perhaps you should have looked for a job PRIOR to everyone else being hired. I am sure you can find a summer job somewhere at some law firm. However, BigLaw did its hiring months ago. Doesn't your awesome university have a career center to tell you these things? Did you not ever hear about summer recruiting cycles in your three previous years at school?

As for why a law firm would want you before you go to b-school, this is the classic JD/MBA dilemma. If you are so intent on not practicing law, why would a law firm give you a cushy, overpaid apprenticeship if you are choosing to go the business route? Why did you do your JD/MBA subsequently instead of concurrently?

Good luck to you. And maybe post for real career advice on businessweek.com's MBA Forums. But there, you will also find rankings for business schools and realize that the ROI on your expensive MBA is negligible.

Cheers

2:29 - like I said. Damaged goods.

Will I actually get staffed on a sophisticated, cross-border transaction or a piece of complex, bet-the-company litigation while I'm a summer? (T5-->V10)

Two other pieces of advice for really young summer associates:

1)
Remember that work emails are not IMs or texts or anything else. Work emails should be relatively formal. This runs the gamut from not writing "B there in 2 secs" to a partner that requests your presence in his office to client communications. Never sign off with a "thx"--that's "Thank you." Don't use bad words in emails. Don't surf the web like a fiend. Don't forward work-questionable links to YouTube videos.

This is not law school, and work email is not your personal email. Do that at home, even if you are not busy at work....it's not right and could be used against you.

2) If you must surf the web at work, surf "appropriate" content like NYTimes or WSJ or FT. Don't get caught on a site that could get you in trouble.

Can we get a legal blog that isn't full of douchebags, led by a douche? Or is that just endemic to the profession?

Sad but true, 2:40 is right. Golf is a great way for partners to think highly of you despite having any idea whether you're a good attorney or not.

If you can, make friends with a junior associate (1st or 2nd year). They can answer a lot of your questions regarding what is expected of you. 9-5 was perfectly fine (actually encouraged) in my office. As far as dress goes, look around and consult with your fellow summers (or junior associates). As far as events go, pace yourself early in the evening. The partners are generally there for the first couple of hours then drift home to their families. The younger associates are not going to care if you have a few drinks as long as you don't do something exceptionally stupid.

I'm sure your chances are just as good as a first or second year's of being the person who makes sure a 200 page doc doesn't mix straight quotes and curved quotation marks on sophisticated, cross-border transaction or a piece of complex, bet-the-company ligitation.

Ah the naive top law student: your life thus far has been an unqualified success, who would ever expect you to do mindless and demeaning tasks?

Shouldn't there really be 2 separate threads going on here?

I mean, surely the advice is not the same for top legal talent as it is for students just grateful to get a job.

2:16:
Like other prublic interest attorneys actually doing something productive with our lives, I had numerous offers from these wonderful big firms. Shockingly, I didn't take one. Wow. I know it's a difficult, unamerican concept to grasp--Making a career decision on something other than money.

Here's my advice for SAs:

1. Always act enthusiastic about an assignment, even if you think it sucks.
2. At events, avoid clustering with other SAs all evening and try to talk to a few of the partners/associates who are in attendance. Ask them what they're working on. If they're working on something interesting, ask them to let you know if they could use some help with it. Don't be a kiss ass, but don't miss opportunities to make connections with higher-ups. I got my best assignments by talking to partners at events, asking what they are working on, and then asking if I could help them with it.
3. Try not to gossip too much. People remember and distrust gossips.
4. Don't be a complainer.
5. Always be friendly toward your fellow SAs. If you don't like an SA, keep that to yourself. Remember that you're going to have to work with these people at some point and you want to be on good terms with everyone, even people who get on your nerves.
6. Be nice to recruiting people and show appreciation for the hard work that goes into setting up events for SAs. This goes along with the general theme of being grateful for what you're being given, rather than acting entitled.
7. If you receive any criticism regarding your work or attitude, take it very seriously. It seems like SAs only get criticized when there's a serious problem, so if you get any "talk" you should really take it to heart and shape up. Especially in this market.
8. Be sure that you understand an assignment before you start it. If you don't understand, ask for clarification. Nothing sucks more than turning in something that isn't what the person wanted.

I agree with 3:18. I did not go to a top 13 law school so I could work during my summer. Leave the memo writing and proof reading to the schmucks. I am going to party, but only with people that went to really impressive law schools.

Strolling through the door at 9:30 is not going to impress many people.

3:33 - unless you are in nyc in which case you'll beat most associates.

Act like the firm is beneath you. That way, they know that you're something really special.

3:18, You are going to make it really easy for everyone else at your firm by being the elitest schmuck that you are. No one is entitled to a job, regardless of where you go to school or what your grades are. Try taking the silver spoon out of your mouth and actually participate in the summer experience...who knows, you might actually learn something - hopefully that you are an insufferable ass.

WTF IS ZARB??

We are missing the obvious. The economy sucks right now. Even if it promises to improve in the next year or so when these summers come back, it's on everyone's mind.

All I'm saying is this year is the year of the "cold offer." You better stand out among your peers. Nuff said.

3:30 -

Good to hear from some like-minded people. I did not go to GW to work with those decidedly unprestigious Emory students.

Perhaps the most enduring signal you can leave this summer is your business card. In the week or so between the end of your summer and the hiring decision, you'll be partying with prostitutes in Brazil and your business card will be the next-best way for the hiring committee to remember you. You want to aim for just under equity partner level cards, but right above senior associate level cards. Definitely include your law school, college honors, eating clubs, and, if space allows, your LSAT score.

3:18, I think the advice is the same for "top legal talent." ~ 2:12

Let's see:

1. Bring kneepads;

2. Smile;

3. Bend down and pick up that pencil, I know you like it. . .

Just to be ready for any late nights...how do I find out what the firm's after hours internet porn policy is?

3 words: Top Legal Talent.

2:56 - "GULP"

That is the sound of you buying "Hofstra Magna's" troll hook-line-and-sinker.

Who is the idiot now?

3:33 - Right - no one will be impressed, because no one else will be in the office yet.

Most important advice for SA's:
When at a large dinner table with partners, always remember that YOUR bread plate is on the left, and YOUR water glass is on the right.

East way to remember?
Make a circle with with your left thumb and index fingers so that you can look down and see through. Extend the rest of the fingers straight out. It should look like a lower-case "b". Do the same for the right hand and it makes a lower-case "d".

left b = bread
right d = drink

You'll never grab someone else's drink again. Good luck and have a blast!

3:24 pm: What you meant to say is my "Daddy" paid for my law school and undergrad, therefore I have minimal debt, and can afford to take a public interest job. Don't get on your high-and-mighty horse and preach to people who who may have to bow to the all-mighty dollar to take care of their families and themselves.

I second 3:01's advice and would add that it is important to respond to emails inviting you to events, lunches, etc. I would have thought that this was a no-brainer, but last summer, we had a summer associate who failed to respond to several social/invitation emails from both associates and partners. Because this summer associate also complained a lot , was considered fairly high maintenance, and didn't do particularly impressive work, he was not very popular and there were some people practically gunning for him to get no-offered. So, in case this is not already clear to anyone, it is common courtesy to acknowledge, either verbally or via email, an email invitation or a personally drafted "hello" email from an attorney at the firm where you are a summer associate.

I have been surprised over the past couple of years at how many summer associates think it is appropriate to cut corners on projects, such as attempting to hand in a stack of cases in as work product without any accompanying legal analysis, or to just whine and complain excessively about everything. A couple of years ago, I witnessed a summer associate respond with a negative answer to every question the summer associate was asked by a partner.

Exs:

Q: How did you like going to x college?
A: It sucked.

Q: How do you like living in x?
A: It's boring.

Q: Are you splitting your summer?
A: No, thanks to this firm's policy on splitting, I couldn't do the internship I really wanted to do.

I certainly don't think that all summer associates are like this, but although you really do have to screw up big time to get no-offered at most firms, I wouldn't chance it given the current economy. Start working on pretending to care about things, even if you don't. It will be great practice for a permanent job at a law firm.

The advice on this thread is generally very good. I'm impressed.

I would like to highlight a few of the non-obvious points:

(1) Socialize with attorneys at events (i.e. don't stand in groups of all summers). We can be a pretty shy/awkward bunch (and many of us acutally realize it), so coming up to us scores big points, and there's a chance we'll actually remember who you are when it comes to review time.

(2) Regarding dating/sleeping with associates (this seems to be especially popular with female summers and male juniors and mids, at least from what I've seen), it happens everywhere. I've personally seen two divorces come out of it. I'm not saying absolutely don't do it, but think really, really hard about it; it could jeopardize two careers.

(3) 9:30 a.m. will not impress anyone at my firm. You'd better be in by 9:00 a.m., and 8:30 a.m. would be better. I hate it just as much as you do, but you don't want senior people looking for you and your lights to be off. Suck it up and set your alarm 30 minutes earlier and then make up for it on the weekends. (As a side note, I've found that laying my clothes out the night before saves a huge amount of time: Prep the coffee maker, make sure towels and toiletries are ready to go, have clothes ready, have your purse/briefcase ready with keys, cash, access card, etc. This can save you 10 or 15 minutes in the morning.).

Good luck. (Unfortunately this summer you're going to need it most places.)

re: HofstraMagna's Trollish tendencies

I bought it too until I read some of his other posts. because there really are people just like that.

4:00 - that's embarassingly good advice.

Great piece of advice:

Don't call a woman a fat b*tch at a work function thus provoking her to punch you in the face.

I know its not intuitive but do your best to refrain from such conduct - unfortunately some morons find this out the hard way and get no-offered.

This seems like a good time to request an Aquagirl update.

Very truly yours,

I [heart] Aquagirl

Learn to dress.

Here is a practical piece of advice for summers (as well as practitioners) with respect to email. For anything other than the most di minimis email to a close friend (which when using firm email you should still be careful with), ALWAYS write out an email, double-check it, THEN address it as the last step. There is nothing more fear-inducing than accidently sending an incomplete--or non spell-checked, etc.--email to partners, clients, supervisors, etc.

As a corollary, most computers using Word and Outlook have Alt+S as the shortcut for the "section" squiggle. When tapping out emails citing statutes, beware of using this shortcut--it does *not* put a section squiggle, but instead SENDS the email as is. Thus, if you don't address the email until it is ready to send, you will not screw yourself.

Also, especially as a summer, before replying all to an email, you may want to hit reply all, then DELETE all the addressees, compose your answer, and then manually put the names back in. Will that take more time? Yes. But an incomplete/inappropriate email lives forever, and can be forwarded to the hiring partner, etc.

The best and most useful advice is provided by 2:08. I would disregard c) though . . . the alcohol is free and always there for a reason, and it's not to stop after two. Just don't drink to get absolutely shit-canned.

Agree with 4:04(2): DEFINITELY reply to your "welcome to the firm" email. Someone spent 15 minutes writing that piece of shit (okay, maybe a few years ago for someone else initially, but still...). Start things off on the right foot, even if it's just:

"Hello! Thanks for taking the time to email. I don't have any questions right now, but I appreciate your offer. I look forward to meeting you in a few weeks."

And would my paired summer associate please copy the above and reply to me? You're already in the hole, unfortunately.

Another somewhat elated point, why don't more people send thank-you emails after interviews? That's the goddamn reason we give you our business cards, and why you get your schedule for the day. It's effortless and much appreciated. I know some people don't care, but there are those who do. You know, if I spend 2 hours taking you to lunch, which means that I'll miss Seinfeld reruns tonight, the least you can do is say "thank you." I'll bet less than 20% of interviewees do this, which blows my mind.

4:04 made me laugh. Let's not treat SAs like retards.

"Make sure you wipe your ass from front to back. NEVER back to front." "Put on pants. Don't go to the office without shoes."

LOL at the poorly credentialed students who think they're on par with top legal talent in the eyes of BIGLAW. Newsflash -- we (TLT) don't have to do the same things you do to get an offer.

We can hand in a stack of cases instead of an "analysis" memo. We can skip events that sound lame. We can talk down to support staff. In the end, we'll be the first offers given.

It's a job interview, not a pleasure cruise. Act and dress appropriately.

-- Devil in Disguise

If, as an attractive female summer associate with golden rippled abs and a shaved mons, you ever find yourself lounging naked in the Gold Coast apartment of a particularly dapper junior partner after a debauched Thursday afternoon tryst fueled by one too many margaritas at Frontera, please, oh please, whetever you do, no matter how clever you think it is, no matter how comfortable you feel while basking in your post-coital nimbus, don't answer the fucking phone. It's my fiance. Thanks in advance.

4:14-1 has excellent advice. I follow it myself (it only takes one rogue email to learn).

Gold Coast = Edgewater or some other shitty part of NJ. Loser.

How can I get an apprenticeship with "ZARB"?

2:16:
"Like other prublic interest attorneys actually doing something productive with our lives, I had numerous offers from these wonderful big firms. Shockingly, I didn't take one. Wow. I know it's a difficult, unamerican concept to grasp--Making a career decision on something other than money."

If you believe that you chose to do something that is in the "public interest" rather than make money, then you are sorely mistaken about the nature of both the public's interest and money.

4:18(1), Happy to have made you laugh and glad that you know better, unfortunately many don't (especially if this is their first job and first time they've worn anything other than North Face and yoga pants for the past 6 years while they struggle to be on time to their "early" class at 10 a.m.). I was one of them and was offering some tips I've found useful.

Is there any way to get around wearing socks to work? I really hate wearing socks. I did not go to a top law school to have to wear socks and talk to people who did not go to a top law school.

Also, do I have to take my I-Pod headphones off when speaking to all attorneys or only the ones who attended schools which make me feel warm and fuzzy?

Err on the side of taking less work and doing a stellar job on each assignment, rather than taking more work and doing a shitty job because you're in over your head. No one aside from the recruiting person will know that you're doing a ton of assignments at once, so it's not like you'll get props for it from anyone who matters. But everyone *will* know if you turn something in late or really screw something up, which can easily happen if you take on a ton of work.

If someone isn't willing to come up with the money to pay for it, then it shouldn't get done.

@4:14(1) - Paranoid much?

Of course, having said that, my last name is not a common word, nor is it in spellcheck (intentionally not added to my dictionary), so spellcheck always "catches" my last name in my signature as my failsafe against accidental send.

For the "section" squiggle, in Outlook, etc - hold down the ALT key, and type "0167" on the number pad (Numlock must be on). Viola! Instant section symbol. It works in Word too, but isn't needed because of Alt-S as you noted.

Don't make out at firm events.

Advice for women: Don't try to be more fashionable than everyone around you. If you look like you spend more time shopping and worrying about being trendy than anyone else at the firm, no one will take you seriously. Get a normal haircut, sensible shoes, and clothes which don't show off your bust line.

Women make good summers but terrible lawyers.

4:24, I think 4:21(1) was referring to Chicago. But, he is douche (and a liar). We all know junior partners are balding, at least 10-15 pounds overweight and usually unhappily married with the three kids who handcuffed them to the firm in the first place. If they are not, it means no woman can stand to be around the bastard for more than 10 minutes at a time.

Ignore 4:38pm. Showing off the bust line is always encouraged unless the hiring partner is a woman. Absent a woman hiring partner, the remaining men on the hiring committee will assure you get hired.

4:14(1) -- That's no joke, the same thing happened to me.

4:31---work for Quinn Emanuel--sandals and shorts are expected

Watch out for food particles in your mustache. Nothing says "Utica rube" like a mustachio full of cheese.

Your first two glasses of wine at lunch should always be white and over $12. The thrid glass is never a good idea. Just keep some scotch under your desk and you will be fine.

Don't badger Partners for feedback on your assingments. Leave that job to the recruiting department, despite the fact that the recruiting dept. may ask you to solicit the feedback. Better that the partner gets annoyed at the recruiting department than you.

Never back down in an argument about anything, especially with a partner. Being a lawyer is essentially being a professional arguer, and they want to see if you have the chops and persistence to be a good one. Even if the partner seems to know more about the subject than you do, never back down from insisting you're right. It's a test.

The most obvious advice: don't jump into the Hudson River during cocktails.

Don't jump into the Hudson River even if it's not during cocktails....

Agree with 4:47(1). The goal is to be memorable in a good way. Starring role in a masturbatory fantasy = good.

Stop listening to your ipod/iphone right before you enter your building so that your headphones aren't in your ears as you're waiting for the elevator or riding up it. Early on, you don't know who any of the important people are, and they probably can tell you're a SA. If you miss a "hello" or head-nod simply because you were all into your music, it could look bad, especially if you just totally ignored the hiring partner.

Also, don't be a dick to your secretary. They all talk to each other, and word spreads. Also, they tend to like it if you're nice, and they'll provide you all kinds of good info on people & policies of the firm.

5:17 - meant 4:47(2).

137 is an idiot. Sleep with the HIRING PARTNER to ensure an offer. If you sleep with anyone else at the firm, you risk pissing the HP off.

UNLESS said encounter with another lawyer includes the hiring partner, who has specifically asked that this person be included.

Good luck.

"Another somewhat elated point, why don't more people send thank-you emails after interviews? That's the goddamn reason we give you our business cards, and why you get your schedule for the day. It's effortless and much appreciated. I know some people don't care, but there are those who do. You know, if I spend 2 hours taking you to lunch, which means that I'll miss Seinfeld reruns tonight, the least you can do is say "thank you." I'll bet less than 20% of interviewees do this, which blows my mind."

The upside of not sending thank you emails is that it may help to keep you from working with guys like this.

I'd say that 80% of people don't care, 10% will be annoyed if you send the email, and 10% will be annoyed if you don't.

You really can't win, so don't even try.

Remember that (for most of you) the question is not how much bad behavior you can get away with and still get an offer for full time employment - the real question is what kind of reputation do you want to have at your firm (and perhaps in the legal community in general) once you start your career.

Believe it or not, the associates, partners, and staff you meet over the summer will actually remember you when you start as a full time associate the following fall. You don't want to start off your career with co-workers who think of you as "that guy who....[insert crazy summer associate story here]" In fact, you don't want to be known as someone who is merely whiny, lazy, or stupid. Your reputation as a summer might help determine what team you get staffed on when you first start (nobody wants the lazy guy/girl staffed on their case).

Learn what the lunch/dinner budgets are and don't push the people who are nice enough to take you out to break the budget. Don't get blasted at events. Turn in assignments on time - and do them to the best of your ability. Be pleasant to work with. In other words - act professional.

And contrary to some of the suggestions above - DO spend time with your actual friends - those are the people with whom you can get totally wasted, take off your pants, and jump into the fountain. Get it out of your system in a social, not work, setting.

5:37 - I agree.

Don't send thank you e-mails/notes. Your interviewer has already made their decision, and probably already sent in your review by the time you've left the building. The thank you message can only screw you up (with grammar mistakes, etc.)

I find the post simultaneously condescending and extremely ironic, given that most people in big law are by no means 'Big boys and girls' of the law. In fact, most associates at these firms are the farthest thing from 'big boys and girls' in law. Movers and shakers big law associates are not. But it's very Nietzschean / resentiment to take a shitty job that pays pretty well and turn it into something so grand as to merit this 'welcome to the club ... let us show you the ropes' sort of post.

Keep it up! Opiate of the masses!

PFFHHFFTTT is not an appropriate answer to a question by an associate. Ever.

5:42 = ACLU internship for 2L summer.

255 is a moron. obama wants to remove the payroll tax cap, and nearly double the capital gains tax. any intelligent biglaw associate or partner HATES obama for the 10s of thousands each year this would cost them.

oh the good old days when an offer was actually like the parting of the skies and a welcome into heaven..................................

1) totally agree on thankyou notes, people will decide what they're going to decide, and it will only be crucial to self-important people who you probably don't want to work for anyways.

2) I'm a 1L and i got a summer assoc gig. I really fucking hate baseball, and i'll bet money that one of the 'events' is a game. I don't have to go to *all* the events, right?

A thank you note is always appropriate after interoffice fellatio, and nothing says "thank you" like fellatio.

Typically, how many evening events per week?

"2) I'm a 1L and i got a summer assoc gig. I really fucking hate baseball, and i'll bet money that one of the 'events' is a game. I don't have to go to *all* the events, right?"

Do you also hate beer...and hot dogs...and time away from the office...and golden mid-afternoon sunshine...and all of the scantily clad arse in the bleachers...and, er, more beer?

6:16 - That's just the attitude you DON'T want to have. Whether you like it or not, a lot of client relations and other business gets done at sporting events. Don't let on that you don't like it. If you choose not to do the game, don't say why. If you are a trooper and make all the events and miss just that one, very few will notice anyway. At my firm, we have two games and only about half the class can go to each - so if you skip, no one knows it or knows why. But saying you "hate baseball" to others is exactly what you DON'T want to do.

And in general (ie, to all posters), I always send thank yous not just to leave a good impression (which it can), but also because it is the polite, classy thing to do. I do the same thing if a partner takes me to dinner, gives me his great seats to the hockey game, etc. etc. etc.

If you want to respond to this post and call me an idiot because I actually care about being polite to a person who spends 30 minutes of his/her time talking to me, think a bit about what it will say about your character if you do so. Every now and then, it is actually nice to do something civil and polite in a situation where you don't stand to gain something.

@ 5:42 - hear, hear

if you're in an office that has a baseball team lets say San Diego Padres, and you're a Dodgers Fan, u may not want to wear your Dodgers cap and jersey. Just wear your business casual dress to the game, and silently cheer for the Dodgers

Wait to see if the associate taking you to lunch is ordering desert or coffee before ordering same for yourself... the associate may need to rush back to the office.

Here's another associate chiming in to agree with 4:04(2) - my summer has blown me off as well.

Agree with 4:04(2): DEFINITELY reply to your "welcome to the firm" email. Someone spent 15 minutes writing that piece of shit (okay, maybe a few years ago for someone else initially, but still...). Start things off on the right foot, even if it's just:

"Hello! Thanks for taking the time to email. I don't have any questions right now, but I appreciate your offer. I look forward to meeting you in a few weeks."

And would my paired summer associate please copy the above and reply to me? You're already in the hole, unfortunately.

Have a meeting with your secretary during your first week and explain what your expectations are ... make sure you tell her you expect her to be prompt and energetic ... and that you do not expect her to make too many personal calls or surf the web too frequently.

6:34, thanks. I'm glad that someone else is on the side of politeness. Nice to be told by a freakin' 1L that I'm one of the "self-important people who you probably don't want to work for anyways" because I like to get thank-you notes from interviewees. In fact, I think I'm just the opposite: I'm polite and respectful to the people I work for and give work to, and most people respond favorably. Good luck, 6:16, as someone else noted sarcastically, that attitude is sure to get you far this summer.

-4:16

1. Use common sense.
2. Do not break the meal budgets - associates have to pay for it themselves.
3. Be nice to associates. They will often be the ones assigning work to you/evaluating your work when you start at the firm.

7:17 points out a fact little-known by summers (at least at first): yes, associates are the ones who have to pay if you go over budget, so if you get the filet for lunch, do a little bit of math before ordering the cappuccino and creme brulee for dessert.

Be nice to your secretary.

Your secretary was there before you, and probably was there before all or virtually all of the associates you will work with. If you upset her, she will mention it to all of the other secretaries, who will talk to the partners, who care far more about keeping good secretaries than keeping any summer associates.

Be nice to your secretary.

4:03:

You have a lot of nerve making assumptions about me without knowing me. My parents did not pay a dime of my law school. Yet I made the decision that I didn't need to sell out and represent corporate America in order to have a decent life. Shockingly, if you took the time to investigate, you would actually find that the corporate and government world of lawyers is absolutely not filled with rich spoiled do-gooders, but rather with regular middle class, intelligent, decent people.

It's frankly insulting that you infer that one cannot live off a public interest or government salary--even while paying off law school debt--when hundreds of millions of Americans live off much less.

You are a very unimaginitive person who clearly feels guilty that you are doing nothing productive with your life, and are trying to make incorrect excuses as to why you had to sell out.

1. Tell the firm that all you want to do that summer--and once you are an associate--is pro bono work because the attorneys you interviewed with bragged about how their firm allows lawyers to do tons of pro bono work

2. Make it clear that you chose this firm because the interviewers told you that it was a "lifestyle firm," that requires fewer hours than other firms, and that you simply don't want to put in more than 40 hour weeks once you are a full-time associate.

Don't hang nude pictures in your office, even if they are "art"

don't be oversensitive and defensive, even if you have a good point, like what 8:02 is doing

in fact, just plain avoid any behaviors that are common to ATL posters in general

Cheer LOUDLY for the Dodgers in all venues. Boo the Yanks.

324 is probably a trust fund baby who's had his/her way paid by the 'rents. Until you actually have to get through 7 years of school on your own, don't fucking lecture people on choosing their job based on money. Those of us from families that couldn't help us with 150k debt don't have the luxury you do.

It's just one game. Suck it up and go for the conversation like every other female summer.

why would an attractive female sa date some fugly as sin balding male junior associate? his money and power are about comparable to hers, so that's not going to compensate for shit even with the most materialistic women. probably why this shit didn't happen when i was a summer.

that some fugly, awkward, virginal male junior is lurking about ready to swoop in like a hawk to try to get into my pants makes me want to projectile vomit.

*brings a tazer to all the social events, tazes a lecherous awkward fugly male junior associate, he doesn't report it in order to avoid sexual harassment charges*

Figure out who the assholes are in and avoid them at all costs. Every firm has a partner who is known for ruining one associate's summer with an awful assignment and lousy reviews. If you get an assignment from such a person, do it fast and well and move on to something that is going to increase your odds of an offer. If the partner keeps pulling you back in, tell you mentor or the summer coordinator so you can extricate yourself.

Every firm has a friends and family summer. Make sure you don't trash the firm to that person, as it will get back to the partner who pulled strings to get that toad his job.

8:37, you'll have some of those, no doubt, but there will likely be even more of the nerdy guys who try to be cool and go out all the time with the summers because they have no other friends and try to "start over" every summer and feel superior because of the 5-year age gap and will try to "friend" their way into your pants.

Oh, and 8:37, I don't understand why it happens, but it does, every summer, everywhere.

Just because an attorney is doing something does not mean you can. They have a job, you don't. This includes smoking pot, looking at porn, commenting on co-workers' racks, tossing candy into cleavage of any kind, vomit in any situation, pissing over the side of a boat, order the most expensive cigar or scotch. Attorneys remember this and, if you get an offer, you will be punished for this when no one cares what you think (as a new associate).

Amen, 7:17, #2. I know the mystique of the law firm summer is that the finest food and wine will fall around you like pillowcases full of sunshine and lollipops, but there are caps on the per person price of each meal. Firms generally strictly enforce these limits by reimbursing the associates up to the point and not a penny more. If the people taking you out are going to broke, then fine...but don't be the jackass who out orders everyone at the table. If the server wants to take your order first and you aren't sure if people are doing drinks/starters/etc., say you haven't decided yet and ask them to come back. Then follow whatever the rest of the table does.

And though I agree with the advice someone offered about taking your time to do a good job on your assignments....there has to be an upper limit, too. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good when you've already had something over a week. Do your best, obvy, but it's important to actually generate work product at some point. Don't make people wait forever for your perfection. a) it's not that perfect, and b) they might actually need it for something.

Oh, and "put together a draft memo" means final form as far as you're concerned. It's not the same sense of the word "draft" as you're thinking.

Definitely resist all urges to express your thoughts that being a summer at firm X makes you hot shit. Especially to your fellow summers or, heaven forbid, the associates. Ick.

8:47 is SOOO right. And every year some SA let's them.

Any advice for judicial clerks who are summering part time while taking the bar? I am worried about getting an offer because I will only be there for 7 weeks part time which is not much time to make an impression.

didn't happen in my class 8:52

Do not lock yourself into a practice group. You might think you want to do Antitrust. But maybe five other associates want to do that too, but that group only has two or three slots. You are suddenly not competing for one of 25 slots for the entire program but for 1 our of 3 tops. If firms have overhired, it will be easier to cut people who are wedded to only one thing if there is no room in the group to do that one thing. It is ok to express an interest in something, but cover you bet by saying that you have a strong interest but want to explore X and Y too. Trial or corporate are the safest X and Y because firms tend to have the most slots in these groups.

Be especially careful about esoteric practices like legislative. Unless you have real and relevant experience, those groups don't tend to hire because they don't have enough work to feed an associate 2000 hours of work in a year.

Also, if you have a strong interest in something now and it becomes clear early on that you are not a good fit (i.e., because the partner in charge of the group is a raving idiot), try to express an interest in something else in plenty of time to allow you to get work from that group.

If all this fails, remember that this is just about getting an offer to be an associate, not to stay for your entire career. You might have to work at a job you don't love for a year, but it is so easy to lateral as a second year that you can feel confident that your hell is only temporary.

.

9:01, were you in a summer class of one and you are a guy?

9:00 - get out of your office and make the rounds. Go see people, even if just for coffee. 7 weeks, even part time, is enough time to get to know several people.....which you want to do anyway, since part of this process is determining if you really want to work there. If you ever find yourself idle in your office and surfing the web, close your browser, get up, and go find work or talk to people. So much of the work people give summers is bull anyway, and a lot of their decision to make an offer comes down (fortunately or unfortunately) to how well you fit in. Obviously, being a fun guy/gal doesn't make up for crappy work, but it's just not all about the work - be a likeable person who associates will feel comfortable working with in the future. That's the kind of thing that will help get you an offer.

9:00 Firms go the extra mile to find a reason to offer a clerk. They really want you. But be aware that many firms do not really offer clerks due to ethical concerns about appearing before your judge. You are more apt to get something like, you did a great job and we hope to hear from you when your clerkship is ending.

9:01 must have been in a really fugly class.

9:01 is HSL class of 1930

Do not think that anything you say is confidential. It all gets back to the recruiting people and it all gets factored into the offer decision.

Do not believe that you are the best and the brightest. No associates want to see your big fat inflated head when they are slaving away in their layoff anxiety.

How do you find out what the lunch budget is?

If I want foie gras, lobster, and a handmade dessert...guess what, I deserve it. Go Hoyas!

There is a double standard. Guys that sleep around during the summer are labelled "Guys." Women who do the same are "sluts."

DC firms are usually $35/person. If you load up, you will not get many invites. I would hate you.

When I have a summer that busts my budget, I start to take them to Cosi. If they complain, I start the no-offer campaign.

If you see the last person at the firm ordering nothing but soup, the summers blew the budget.

928 is apparently the authority here, so what if i'm a HOT LESBIAN and i sleep around with other women at the firm? please, i don't know which stereotype applies to me.

9:42 For reasons I can't explain, no one will care

Most firms won't have other women with who you can sleep.

You will be stereotyped as the fantasy of the "guys"

9:28 says nothing about who the SAs are sleeping with. Slut still applies.

If you want to be who you are, that is just fine. But know that you are acting at your own peril if you range too far from the norm. Just don't complain when some 55 year old partner doesn't get your uniqueness and pushes for a no-offer. Some things are better left for friends.

Everyone talks about wine and dining, but I actually worked my ass off during the summer. Most summers in my class busted their ass, although it was before the credit bubble burst before by the end of the summer. I think I got to know people better through working, than through any of the social events.

8:37 hasn't been in the profession long enough to realize that once women start working as associates for a couple years, they get so hard up they'll sleep with anything that moves as long as there's some possibility, however remote, that said anything might want a long-term relationship.

Don't worry babe. I'll be there when you figure it out.

the more work you do as a summer, the more chances you give yourself to screw something up. do the minimum amount of work that is acceptable and make sure it is all done well and on time... then drink all of the free liquor you can possibly handle while remaining conscious, and you will have had a great summer and be guaranteed an offer.

4:16/6:53--

Hello! Thanks for taking the time to email. I don't have any questions right now, but I appreciate your offer. I look forward to meeting you in a few weeks.

I didn't work very hard during my summer. As for the two people that got non-offered at my place it didn't seem to have much to do with how much work you did (since I did very little relatively speaking).

I guess if your work was total crap maybe that would be bad and I did hear that was a reason behind one no-offer. But that person was from a bottom half of Tier 1 when most people at the firm were T14 so maybe they were just dumb and couldn't write. The other person that got no-offered was the weird guy who nobody really got and just sort of said odd things and I don't think anyone really liked.

Moral of the story (as long as you go to a decent school and aren't an idiot) just be "normal".

That means go out drinking with people but don't get smashed (unless it is a firm event that encourages that sort of thing like when the partners start playing flip cup or getting everyone to do flaming shots). That means go and play golf (as mentioned by a few above). That means don't tell people about all your "cool" hippy shit, nobody cares.

10:20 is a desperate, fugly, balding male junior associate trying to trick women into putting out.

10:24,

Even as an anonymous poster, you're a step ahead of my summer. You can blow my lunch budget any day.

-4:16

I'm not balding, 11:13.

951, support your argument.

i have never, ever heard a girl called a slut for sleeping with a lot of other girls. if anything, i think mannish back slapping is more common in this case.

you're pretty ignorant and just want an excuse to fuck with women. sorry you're a virgin bro.

CAN WE GET A SEPERATE LINE OF ADVICE FOR THE SONNENSCHEIN SUMMERS?

946, i have a knack for getting "straight" chicks into bed. even the married ones.

Perhaps some of your SAs have not responded to your "Welcome to the firm" e-mails because they're away on vacation? Some of the non-responsive SAs may simply be lazy and inconsiderate but i'm sure there are a few out there that have not had the opportunity to check their e-mails because they're out of the country or something. I wouldn't try to hold that against them.

Do not bring your older gentleman friend (read: sugar daddy) to a cocktail event. Do not revel in such compliments as "Interesting guest..." while he proceeds to lecture all the senior partners about why he is more important than them.

Please, for the love of god, recognize that this makes you look like a whore, not a suave, sophisticated woman.

My advice is not to grope the recruiters.

What should a SA bring with them on the first day?

3:32 - Kneepads and mouthwash

Next week I begin my summer associate position at a famous Mongolian law firm. Any suggestions on how to be a good summer associate in Mongolia?

Loyola 2L

7:50 wins!

DC offices of NY based firms may have higher lunch budgets ($50-60) even for SAs in DC. Mine did. And even when we were over budget the firm never made us reimburse it. But that's why not all biglaw firms are the same; some are cheap, and some are not.

8:37 - you're far smarter than most of the rest of your single female SA colleagues. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a total loser JA/Mid score far better looking SA just because they (both the girl and the guy) think he wields some imaginary power over them. One case in particular I recall was this very attractive, but relationship-wounded, SA from a decent school. In sweeps the overweight, obnoxious, perenially ostracized 6th year from HYS and now they're getting married. In 3 years, the imagined luster will wear off and she'll just be married to some fat loser whom every other girl he ever knew passed on.

How about broader advice: The law firm isn't a singles bar. You have every office romance problem, coupled with far higher than normal hours and stress, and and what can seem like blinding amounts of money if you are talking summers and senior associates, fresh partners or equity partners.

It's just not a good mix, even if your firm won't drop the hammer on you for it. Think of it like dating in law school except with mostly gunners, a power structure that you won't understand for a few years if you are still around and gross financial differences.

What's the food situation for Boston SAs?

I think the advice on not blowing the lunch budget is definitely one to take very seriously. Most associates I know do get very annoyed and talk among themselves about the Summer Assoc who insists on ordering the most expensive starter and main course and the only one to order wine.

And btw, some firms force the associate to cough up any amount over the budget; some firms will "gently" talk to the associate for going over the budget, even if the associate does not have to pay for it himself. Trust me - no associate likes that "gentle talk".

So, please, SAs, be reasonable. You can have a nice meal for $60.

You can be assured that my impression of you will not be sterling if I have to order celery, tofu and tap water because you had foie gras, lobster and scotch.

- Associate

Is it ok to pass on dessert if the associates you're going to lunch with are getting it? I know you normally should do what everyone else does, but I'm trying to minimize the weight gain this summer. Can I just get a tea/coffee instead?

2:02, sometimes we have to go to lunch with the summers and it is not a choice. Not all of us work in 500 person offices where there's a different associate every day to take summers to lunch. It is really irritating me when a summer needs to have, as others advise, a 2 hour lunch and orders an app and a desert while I'm anxiously checking my blackberry every 5 minutes and talking about my filing deadline that day. It's not like you won't have weeks and weeks to gorge yourself; there's nothing wrong with being considerate for an associate's time and keeping lunch to an hour. In a year you'll be that person and you'll be thinking the same thing, that now you have to stay at work for an extra hour over some self-entitled SA's attempt to milk the firm for every penny. Unless an associate is ordering an app and a desert, don't do it.

Is this not all common sense? Why have most law school students never been in society before?

11:41am

Yes, that is absolutely acceptable.

11:45, you must be a law student. You'd be AMAZED at the lack of common sense, respect, and basic social skills plenty of adults from top law schools display while summering at biglaw firms.

11:54 - couldn't you say that about any group of 22-28 YO's?

I greatly appreciated the fact that associates took 2 (sometimes more) hours out of their days to take me to lunch.

Yet one has to wonder WHY associates do it...why not just take summers to dinner? Dinners don't cut into the billing day; the budget is higher; they can have drinks; and they can bring their spouses/partners.

The reason to have lunch with different associates is to see whether the entire firm is made up of 11:52's who schedule lunch with a summer associate and then checks her blackberry every five minutes and rushes back to the office?

Having said that, only a tool gets appetizers and desert at lunch. That is really something you should have learned by 8th grade.

Why would I want to bring my spouse out for dinner with a summer associate? The witty conversation? The office gossip? So I can meet the associates significant other?

1:21 PM - I have to disagree. Appetizers and dessert are quite common and perfectly acceptable during lunch. At least in NY.

Am I really the only associate who gets bored entertaining a SA for 2 hours over lunch when I could be doing something else with that other hour?? - 11:52.

The recruiting coordinator is not your friend. She (i say this as there may be 3 male recruiters in the US) probably has more influence on your offer than you think. She works too hard for not enough money. She does more than plan events, and planning events is hard work. She is probably on a tight budget this year, especially if your not at a V20. She also works with the attorneys all year and most of them probably like her. So be appreciative, don't say too much, don't go over her head, don't try and make her plan more events, or wine about the events (cost) that are planned.

Don't assume that because you attend Harvard or Yale, you are necessarily more valuable than anyone else at the firm. That fifth year associate from Loyola who you snub may be a superstar on the track to being a partner. Bottom line, if you intend to go to the firm you are summering at, be decent and humble to everyone you meet. While law students are obsessed with grades and where you went to law school, most lawyers are not once you have been hired unless you did something truly exceptional (e.g., supreme court clerkship, editor-in-chief of the Harvard Law Review, etc.). I've seen more summer associates become loathed through ego and rudeness then anything else. Being a jerk (unless it is something extreme) will probably not cost you an offer, but you will start from a massive deficit when you begin working at the firm.

- find the 3ls that summered at your firm last year and talk to them

- not every firm is the same... some actually give you a taste of what it is like to be an associate (real work)... some have smaller lunch budgets... some aren't afraid to no offer one or two SAs

- Some firms, especially small firms/offices, may have offers based on the needs of various practice areas. Figure out if you're interviewing for a practice area or for a general offer. Be willing to go to an area that needs you. If you don't like it, get the offer then go to the other firm. Don't risk it in this economy.

2:41,

How do you tactfully deal with not knowing anything about a law school someone went to without looking like a snob? Personally, I could care less about what rank their school was since they've been hired and I'm still trying to be hired. However, there's also no way I can possibly know something about every law school out there.

317 - look at the associates bio before lunch, event, etc. then google the school.

And someone in this board was just commenting about how all of this is just common sense - and yet the SAs just don't have it. Duh 3:17, look at their bios and use google.

I thought they just sent you out to lunch with whoever was available at the time. I didn't realize we were high enough on the food chain to be on someone's schedule. That makes it much easier though, thanks!

3:50 associates are rarely "available" for 2 hour lunches 2 times a week.

am I the only one going in as a summer associate with an intent to stay in my current relationship? Sheesh...

Harvey's a c#*ksucker