She did the right thing. Now leave her alone.

This discussion has seriously gone down hill. Yesterday we were talking about here in Catholic school girl outfit and today we are talking about whether law firms should encourage or allow individual expression.

Seriously down hill. Focus people.

Lead by example, ATL. Kash & SEN to girl-on-girl photo action!

And if she had done it, there would have been a giant post in here with links to the photos and her names saying "LAW STUDENT STRIPS." She did the right thing.

Regardless of what we have the freedom to do, people do indeed judge the decisions we have made in our lives. It is up to us to decide how to explain those decisions.

Either we can apologize and say that they represent a "lapse" in judgment. Or we can look folks dead in the eye and say that while we may not make the same decisions now, we are not going to be ashamed of what we did in the past.

Laura chose the first option, and there is nothing wrong with that. If she feels she made a mistake, if she feels embarrassed, then it is fine and right for her to apologize for her actions. I only have a problem with the apology if it was done simply for the purpose of possible "damage control."

Regardless, she's already put herself at a serious disadvantage come recruiting time. The whole story was stupid to begin with, and I find it shameful that ATL finds it acceptable to ruin law students' careers in order to post an irrelevant, stupid little story such as this one.

Once again, California is not the nation's largest state. It is the most populous. Alaska, with a land mass equivalent to roughly 60% of the aggregate of the 48 continental states, is easily the largest state in the Union.

You people are seriously overestimating the influence of ATL.

This is an effin' blog. It is read primarily by law students and junior associates. It is not affecting anyone's job prospects.

You have to be kidding, Lat. YOU are the reason she had to withdraw.

Five years ago, there would have been less for her to be concerned about - even if she'd won and done the shoot, no one would have remembered/known about it by the time she was interviewing for jobs. Now, Google and ATL doom any lawyer/law student/etc. to perpetual disgrace for any indiscretion.

It's a great thing that the world is becoming a freer place, but it's also becoming a meaner, more spiteful and vindictive place where a girl putting herself in this sort of competition could be a cause for embarrasment for her family, and is something to might need to apologize for.

If you don't see this, then I don't know what to tell you...

"Regardless, she's already put herself at a serious disadvantage come recruiting time."
I don't know why everyone says that. A hot girl with naked pics published would do score pretty well with me in an interview.

"The whole story was stupid to begin with, and I find it shameful that ATL finds it acceptable to ruin law students' careers in order to post an irrelevant, stupid little story such as this one."
Right, cause it's totally Lat's fault that this girl decided to allow her name and photograph to be published in a magazine that pretty much everybody in NYC reads.

yeah, theres that girl at thacher proffitt who posed nude and she was one of the few corporate associates who was NOT axed when they had their downsizing...more power to hot girl shedding garments!

Agree w/10:25 + 10:27.

People seem to have lost sight of the fact that this appeared in a print magazine with a readership ten or twenty or a hundred times the size of ATL.

"Five years ago, there would have been less for her to be concerned about - even if she'd won and done the shoot, no one would have remembered/known about it by the time she was interviewing for jobs. Now, Google and ATL doom any lawyer/law student/etc. to perpetual disgrace for any indiscretion"

Maybe we should just do away with the internet altogether. That way people would never find out about anything.

Nice try, Lat. Still, it was bad taste to run this story, and you know it. This additional post does little to restore your journalistic integrity (look it up, its not something you would have learned about in law school).

The fact that you keep repeating that the mantra that the profession is stuffy, conservative, and the like, shows quite clearly that you know that something as innocent as this would be manipulated to reflect poorly against her, and eventually used against her. Yet you ask us why she dropped out as if you don’t know. It makes no difference that her name and picture were already available to the general public. You took that piece of information and presented it to the niche legal community thereby magnifying her notoriety in the only circle that counts.

The walking contradiction that you are has again manifested itself in your journalism. You are the abolitionist that refused to give refuge. Shame on you, shame.

10:33 - Lat is not a "journalist" and makes no claim to "journalistic integrity." He is a blogger. His site is labeled a "tabloid."

If ATL offends you, then don't read it. The only reason the site has any influence (if it has any) is because people read it.

No audience, no influence.

Note to people like 10:33:

I find it unlikely you just happened upon the site today. You're likely a regular or semiregular reader. If so, the iniquities you describe are no less your fault than they are Lat's. The blog is a business. Revenue is derived from traffic. If you constantly visit, much less read and comment on such stories, you are giving life to the very monster you so eloquently lambaste.

Look in the mirror.

Yeah, it's Lat's fault that she screwed up! Please, she made a serious lapse in judgment, and she is backtracking. Fine. But don't blame LAt.

"ruin her career" ?

Give me a break. There is no chance of this ruining her career.

She's admitting to lying and attempting to perpetrate a fraud on Time Out New York and its readers ("...nor did I plan to actually go through with the shoot if I had won.").

As a potential employer, I view this more harshly than if she had posed nude.

Shouldn't this be a Kash post?

Why is everyone here so obsessed with Kash? She is average at best.

Why is everyone here so obsessed with Kash? She is average at best.

MOST LAW STUDENTS ARE AVERAGE AT BEST. Quite a good number below - for both men and women. Get over yourselves - men and women who have posted on line calling this chick ugly.

UVA just got pwned by GW.

Why is everyone here so obsessed with Kash? She is average at best.

Why is everyone here so obsessed with Kash? She is average at best.

Why is everyone here so obsessed with Kash? She is average at best.

Why is everyone here so obsessed with Kash? She is average at best.

Has anyone seen my pants?

"I had no expectations of winning in a pool of 25+ contestants . . . ."

So, her defense is low self-esteem? If the law doesn't work out that self image can help you break into porn.

Her statement should really say, "I had never heard of this 'Above The Law' site before, but I sure have heard of it now."

Lat, this was a pathetic attempt to purge your own guilt. Not to mention, entirely transparent. Usually you write a LITTLE better than this.

Not so hot guys at my high school used to chicken out before posing in the nude for photos all the time, it was no big deal.

FRAT STUD

Repeating information already posted on another website is not ATL's fault. If the young lady wanted to remain anonymous, then she should have thought twice about putting herself ON THE INTERNET in the first place. As for all of this "walking contradiction" crap, ATL is a blog full of gossip mixed with truth. I would say that this more than qualifies.

Some of you sound like companies that ATL has outted with big chips on your shoulders. Nothing you say is going to make us stop reading, so stop clogging up the comments.

For those calling Fordham TTT, I hope you enjoy your miserable lives - obviously the only validation or acceptance you have ever received came from your grades - good luck in the BIGLAW world - from experience I know many of you will be incompetent (quite a number from UPENN er PENN State), most will lack any practical skill other than to point to your IVY degree, many of you will lack social skills, will marry a homely mate, become equally bored and unsatsfied with your lives whether as in house counsel in some bank or 9th year associate nervously looking over your shoulder because you just dont have it in you to be a rainmaker, and fortunately most will be miserable in whatever you pursue because you got where you are by burying your head in a book and taking as little risks as possible to protect any sense of self esteem you have. BRAVO!!!!

living proof that fordham girls are more fun and hotter than any of the other schools in new york with tttrolls . . . Hanging out on washington sq pk south, it's ver yeasy to tell the undergrad girls from the law students - the undergrad girls are all hot long island japs and guidettes while the law students are just tttrolls and monsttters.

For those calling Fordham TTT, I hope you enjoy your miserable lives - obviously the only validation or acceptance you have ever received came from your grades - good luck in the BIGLAW world - from experience I know many of you will be incompetent (quite a number from UPENN, most will lack any practical skill other than to point to your IVY degree, many of you will lack social skills, will marry a homely mate, become equally bored and unsatsfied with your lives whether as in house counsel in some bank or 9th year associate nervously looking over your shoulder because you just dont have it in you to be a rainmaker, and fortunately most will be miserable in whatever you pursue because you got where you are by burying your head in a book and taking as little risks as possible to protect any sense of self esteem you have. BRAVO!!!!

Lat, this was a pathetic attempt to purge your own guilt. Not to mention, entirely transparent. Usually you write a LITTLE better than this.

Lat, this was a pathetic attempt to purge your own guilt. Not to mention, entirely transparent. Usually you write a LITTLE better than this.

Hit the button one time people.

Lat has nothing to feel guilty about. It isn't as if he tricked the woman into making a poor decision so he could talk about her on his blog.

She has only herself to blame for her poor judgment.

11:08,
Yeah, but at least we didn't go to Fordham.

So Fordham is not on par with GULC or UVA?

11:08,
Yeah, but at least we didn't go to Fordham.

This comes from the same profession where "stellar" grades means you are/will be an excellent attorney, and going to a law school not in the BS "US News Top 14, 20, whatever the losers fight about" makes you a "loser".

Bitter? Nope, I'm in BigLaw, "Top" school. But the arrogance and stupidity of how the firms hire and recruit is so ass-backwards. I know better, more polished and much more skillful attorneys who do not fit into my (or any other BigLaw firm's) ridiculous "criteria" for admittance.

Lawyer lesson #1- DON'T CAVE- ADVOCATE FOR YOUR RIGHT TO SHOW YOUR ASS

Lawyer lesson #1- DON'T CAVE- ADVOCATE FOR YOUR RIGHT TO SHOW YOUR ASS

she took herself out of the contest because somehow her entry was broadcast to a large segment of the legal community... I wonder how that happened.

11:13am -

sad day when thats the only thing that makes your life worthwhile...do you need to keep a copy of the most current US Rankings to keep "it" up when you are jacking off to yourself or some inanimate hole?

"[N]or did I plan to actually go through with the shoot if I had won...."

That's some *serious* integrity there.

BigLaw recruiters take note!

Oh, get over yourselves. I agree with Lat. She has nothing to apologize for. Entering herself into this contest, or even posing nude, does not reflect on her abilities as a law student or a lawyer. And no, this does not show a lack of judgment. Simply because she is flirting with the idea of bearing it all (and most of you fat-asses wouldn't) doesn't make her stupid or irresponsible.

And no, this is not going to ruin her career. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if someone hired her because they saw her/read about her on ATL.

11:12 (1) pretty much covered everything that needs to be said here. Thanks, boo.

In response to Lat's question, I would have to say the the legal profession is, indeed, quite priggish. At "Biglaw" firms, I believe the conservative atmosphere is reflection of the stifling, oppressive, homogeneous bureaucratic culture of the corporate clients. In-house counsel are not generally, shall we say, socially avant garde.

If you are looking for a radical or bohemian ethos, Biglaw isn't for you.

(BTW, I don't mean to argue that "Biglaw" firms are horrible places, necessarily. I work at one.)

I wholly agree with what Lat said today. Yet I wholly agree with the way that the law student handled the situation. What should be is great to talk about, but she had to react to what is. It's like saying that women don't deserve to be raped if they dress like tramps and walk around the ghetto. Sure, that's true. But I still wouldn't RECOMMEND you do it. Attractive, young women in law have enough trouble with men taking them seriously and with clients and partners trying to get into their pants---having nude photos out there would just exacerbate those problems. Hiring partners don't like candidates with problems.

Lat,

The reason she had to withdraw is YOU. By over-publicizing a fairly innocent contest entry, you damaged her reputation and forced her to withdraw.

Why do you hate her freedom?

Self righteous idiots like 10:33 and 12:01 are perfect examples of the second-class intellects that plague the legal profession. You can't think about what the actual cause of the situation but blame others for what the actual person responsible did. These types of arguments are what second-class lawyers make and all they do is temporarily, and sometimes permanently, muddy the issue for other second-class intellects before the truth is accepted. I feel sorry for society as a whole, and our profession in particular for having to listen to inferior judgments like 10:33's and 12:01's.

Sincerely,

HYS '06

I thought the second-class intellects were the ones who just call the other side "stupid" and think there is only one ultimate cause of a situation, rather than seeing complexity in it. Oh, and then say, "I went to Harvard, so therefore, my argument is right."

She agreed to do the contest but now claims she wouldn't have ever gone through with it. First, I don't believe that she never intended to go through with it. Second, even if she always intended to back out, she told TONY and its readers she would. Either way, she is dishonest and lacks judgment.

That said, my guess is that this doesn't impact her career choices (although her career choices probably aren't that great in any case).

12:26 - Second-class intellects also like to talk about the "complexity" of the situation or some other justification for why every viewpoint has validity. Its called "spin" and its why politicians get away with what they do even though everyone knows how politics works. For example, how can you seriously justify why political "earmarks" are not transparent? How can you justify the Detroit mayor still denying perjury when there is a mountain of text messages staring him in the face? How do the New England Patriots continue to claim that they didn't know what they were doing was wrong?

By taking advantage of the fact that there are second-class intellects who will conveniently listen to their "spin" and cannot discern kangaroo dung from brown Play-doh. In many instances, there is a right answer if you have the intellect to understand it.

there is no way this is ruining her career. our president has a DUI.

12:16/HYS '06 - Congratulations, I'm not annoyed with your comment for the first time.

Can we PLEASE drop the whole Fordham/Jesuit thing? Fordham's about as Jesuit as the Pope is Jewish. In fact there are probably more Orthodox Jews at Fordham Law than non-lapsed Catholics.

Lat,
what the hell? I don't even believe that you wrote this post. So, blogger that posted this nonsense today -- what have you done with Lat? I am calling for a kidnapping and/or impersonation investigation!

In response, ATL basically rescued this girl from a life of poverty and we should be proud of ourselves. entering this contest was a huge professional mistake and i am glad that she has apparently realized that. i hope in 1.4 years when she is looking for a summer associate job, this whole thing doesn't come to the attenion of recruiting departments. however, i have a suspicion that it will and she will be begging for unpaid summer jobs.

Lat,
what the hell? I don't even believe that you wrote this post. So, blogger that posted this nonsense today -- what have you done with Lat? I am calling for a kidnapping and/or impersonation investigation!

In response, ATL basically rescued this girl from a life of poverty and we should be proud of ourselves. entering this contest was a huge professional mistake and i am glad that she has apparently realized that. i hope in 1.4 years when she is looking for a summer associate job, this whole thing doesn't come to the attenion of recruiting departments. however, i have a suspicion that it will and she will be begging for unpaid summer jobs.

Laura went to Fordham undergrad, which is very jesuit (priests as professors, crosses, chapels, etc.), but Fordham law is not jesuit..its jewsuit...there are more orthodox jewish kids or conservadox jewish kids than even lapsed catholics. In fact, Fordham JLSA is like 10 times the size of the catholic law students association.

"Look, people: the world is a changin'. In our nation's largest state, men can now marry men, and women can now marry women. Freedom is the order of the day. So why get your proverbial panties in a wad because a beautiful young woman wants to pose naked in a magazine?"

People are free to do a lot of things but that doesn't mean they should. A law student posing naked in a magazine seems like a pretty good sign of poor judgment and mental instability even if the world is a changin'. Call me stuffy and conservative.

I don't really care what people do in their free time. And I don't care if this chick thinks taking off her clothes will release her "wild child." But, you don't have to broadcast it to the world ahead of time. Just use the tried and true method of creating a sex tape and having it "stolen" just like every other moron who is desperate for this kind of attention.

Seriously, 11:56 has it right. Attractive female associates get treated differently than all other associates. Sometimes its for the better. Sometimes for the worse. Why make it harder for yourself?

Speaking of Regina Usvjat, looks like she has some other things to hide (see below):
Marlboro police charged Regina Usvjat, 20, of the Monmouth Junction section of South Brunswick, with driving while intoxicated, underage drinking and reckless driving following a motor vehicle stop on Tennent Road on Nov. 5 [2000] at 12:40 a.m. She was processed and released.

Here's the link: newstranscript.gmnews.com/News/2000/1122/Police_Beat/04.html

Also interesting that she is one of the few surviving securitization associates at TPW. mmm?

Speaking of Regina Usvjat, looks like she has some other things to hide (see below):
Marlboro police charged Regina Usvjat, 20, of the Monmouth Junction section of South Brunswick, with driving while intoxicated, underage drinking and reckless driving following a motor vehicle stop on Tennent Road on Nov. 5 [2000] at 12:40 a.m. She was processed and released.

Here's the link: newstranscript.gmnews.com/News/2000/1122/Police_Beat/04.html

Also interesting that she is one of the few surviving securitization associates at TPW. mmm?

Speaking of Regina Usvjat, looks like she has some other things to hide (see below):
Marlboro police charged Regina Usvjat, 20, of the Monmouth Junction section of South Brunswick, with driving while intoxicated, underage drinking and reckless driving following a motor vehicle stop on Tennent Road on Nov. 5 [2000] at 12:40 a.m. She was processed and released.

Here's the link: newstranscript.gmnews.com/News/2000/1122/Police_Beat/04.html

Also interesting that she is one of the few surviving securitization associates at TPW. mmm?

Speaking of Regina Usvjat, looks like she has some other things to hide (see below):
Marlboro police charged Regina Usvjat, 20, of the Monmouth Junction section of South Brunswick, with driving while intoxicated, underage drinking and reckless driving following a motor vehicle stop on Tennent Road on Nov. 5 [2000] at 12:40 a.m. She was processed and released.

Here's the link: newstranscript.gmnews.com/News/2000/1122/Police_Beat/04.html

Also interesting that she is one of the few surviving securitization associates at TPW. mmm?

It is not just that Fordham is the (joint) 27th top school in the country, it is that it is the 4th (5th) choice for people who HAVE to go to law school in New York. No one "chooses" to go to Fordham if they have ANY better choices.

If it looks TTT, Acts TTT and has students that make TTT decisions, guess what it is.....

There are plenty of attorneys that can write well. What often sets attorneys apart is judgment. Entering a contest to pose nude right before entering a profession that is still mostly filled with crusty old white men demonstrates a lack of judgment and common sense. And admitting that she has poor judgment on ATL isn't going to help her out during recruiting time.

Fordham is the 4th choice for people who want to go to school in NY?!? LOL. Which school is #3?

1:54, you have heard of Cornell, right?

Or is Fordham better than Cornell? (Psst LOL Knob, New York is a State AND a City. You are now free to go back to knowing nothing).

Fordham is the 4th choice for people who want to go to school in NY?!? LOL. Which school is #3?

Does anyone else think it is funny that on the main page there is the picture of the girl from the Lateral Link ad underlined by the title "This Law Student Does Not Want To Strip For You"?

1:59(2), meet 1:54, he is just as stupid as you are, you should get on famously. I would normally think you are the same knob, but no one would be that stupid to double post 5 mins apart.

1:59(1)

Nowadays you just can't do this AND try to be taken serious as exercising good judgment. That said, I think ATL should not have posted this because
1) She is not currently a law student, lawyer etc.
2) You knew that you have made it easier for this to be googled.

If you google her name now you find ATL, not Timeout.

To 1;35,
You are a misinformed douchebag. First of all, Fordham is the 3rd/4th choice for people who want NY state...but 3rd for those who want NYC. Cornell is pretty much six hours away from NY so you might as well be at UVa, Gtown, Duke, or UPenn State...

2nd of all, I know quite a few people who picked Fordham over Cornell (SUNY-iTTThaca)

3rd - I personally picked Fordham over a 1/2 scholarship with in-state tution at UVa...and the only thing I regret is my bank statement

2:24, reread what I wrote. Where does it say New York City?

I don't want to get into too many insults because if you choose Fordham over scholarship with UVA you have serious problems that should not be mocked on a law blog. Do you also have headaches, tunnel vision? Can someone get this person a doctor.

Speaking of Regina Usvjat, looks like she has some other things to hide (see below):
Marlboro police charged Regina Usvjat, 20, of the Monmouth Junction section of South Brunswick, with driving while intoxicated, underage drinking and reckless driving following a motor vehicle stop on Tennent Road on Nov. 5 [2000] at 12:40 a.m. She was processed and released.

Here's the link: newstranscript.gmnews.com/News/2000/1122/Police_Beat/04.html

Also interesting that she is one of the few surviving securitization associates at TPW. mmm?

Funny how despite Fordham being so "TTT" I ended up at a top firm outperforming almost everyone from the "t14" law schools. The only people bashing Fordham, or any other law school, are ingorant little 1Ls or 2Ls who haven't worked a day as a real lawyer. Things will seem a little different when a partner from an "inferior" law school rips them a new asshole as a first year associate after they fucked up their latest assignment.

2:54- don't let people from GULC (the only place where "T14" matters) upset you. They're losers anyway.

2:54- don't let people from GULC (the only place where "T14" matters) upset you. They're losers anyway.

No, I am bashing Fordham and I am a 4th year associate at a v10 firm in New York. I attended a top 10 law school - none of this t14 bollox - and work in M&A and while not as busy right now, I assure you I have worked many a day in my life.

Fordham is a crappy school that I visited as my Catholic Irish grandmother insited I visit. Guys from my high school were forced by family ties to attend and hated it, and no one I know who went to undergrad there went to law school (please reread that, I am not saying that no undergrads go to law school, just no one I knew. I am from Long Island and know a lot who did).

Look, no one likes their school being knocked, but it is the 4th choice of those who want to stay in New York state, it is the 3rd choice of people who really feel they need to go to New York City. In reality, it would not be in anyones top 10 dream school. It is nice that you like it, but don't come on to this board with those transcripts and think that you can lord over anyone, or deserve some respect. You don't.

This just reinforces what I already believed: people go to law school when they are too young (especially straight out of college). Get out of school, work a couple of years in a real job (i.e. not waiting tables), learn about the professional environment you are entering into (especially since BigLaw is on the far end of professionalism). Hell, you might figure out you don't want to go to law school anymore.

The girl is 21. Too young to have the proper perspective.

Also, your mom went to Fordham.

Although it's shocking to the elitist snots on ATL, some people actually do choose lower ranked schools over those ranked 5-14 because of the location. There are family reasons, job connection reasons, political aspiration reasons, financial reasons, spouse's job to consider, etc. Some people wouldn't think it would make a lot of sense for them to move to Ann Arbor or North Carolina over attending Fordham or Georgetown if they've lived in NYC or DC for years, love their city lives, and their spouses have nowhere to work for 3 years and have to live in a place with no friends or family.

Also, your mom went to Fordham.

1:59 (and your subsequent moronic comments): No one who wants to stay in NY means NY STATE. NY means NYC. And if you want to go to a top NYC firm, yeah, Fordham IS a lot better than Cornell. But nice job outing yourself as a small-town kid who thinks that he has made the big time by landing a job in NY (state or city?).

By the way, guys in my (NY) high school used to call Cornell the "poison ivy." 'Twas no big deal!

1:54

Alright. For the love of all things sacred! This comment-posting problem must be addressed and remedied.

Seriously - Fordham is only for people who couldn't get into Columbia or NYU.

And Columbia/NYU is only for people people who couldn't get into HYS.

Sincerely,

HYS '06

The whole 3rd/4th choice thing in a state/city is ridiculous when you consider that NY has a glut of top law schools who send their graduates to biglaw in NY. By your rationale, NYU is someon's 2nd choice in NY State and Cornell is 3rd choice just as UConn is someon's 2nd choice in CT and Quinnipac is someon's 3rd choice.

3:05 - I think you are conflating Fordham Law with Fordham undergrad....

Just as NYU undergrad is shitty compared to NYU Law, Fordham undergrad crappy and is barely a feeder to Fordham Law...our biggest feeders are Penn, Cornell, Columbia, NYU, Gtown, and BC.

Quite a few people have and would pick Fordham over Cornell and NO ONE would pick Cornell to be in NY state or "close" to NYC since it's basically a SUNY school 6-8 hours from the city.

I picked Fordham over UVA Law because I spent enough of my life in VA (with UVA undergrad). Obviously if I got into UVa law with a 1/2 scholarship, I do not have mental or intellectual problems.

Socially, I would definitely have to say that Fordham Law students are a lot more fun, have much hotter girls, and can drink any ive league douchebags under the table...though, I doubt the ivy leaguers (and NYU kids) could even get into the same NY bars/clubs as the Fordham kids.

Although it's shocking to the elitist snots on ATL, some people actually do choose lower ranked schools over those ranked 5-14 because of the location. There are family reasons, job connection reasons, political aspiration reasons, financial reasons, spouse's job to consider, etc. Some people wouldn't think it would make a lot of sense for them to move to Ann Arbor or North Carolina over attending Fordham or Georgetown if they've lived in NYC or DC for years, love their city lives, and their spouses have nowhere to work for 3 years and have to live in a place with no friends or family.

Yeah, for working in NY BIGLAW (and by NY, i mean MANHATTAN - not Albany, Ithaca, Buffalo, Syracuse, or Melville BIGLAW)...then Fordham is just as good as any t10 school outside new york (city). Bottom half of fordham and bottom half of cornell and gulc and penn all end up in midlaw in NJ or LI...

I'll take a full ride and graduate at the top of my T2 school, and get the same damn job as some elitist snob who now owes > $100k in tuition. Now who's the dumbass?

3:53....thats a HUGE gamble you took. The dumbass is the one who did what you did and DID NOT graduate at the top of their class...because now they have a worthless law degree and probably lost their scholarship (like you do at bk or dozo if you're outside the top 1/3) so not only are you unemployable but you're also 150K in debt with a worthless law degree

WTF is "HYS"?

Harvard Yale Stanford - to the elitist douchebags, their sacrosanct Holy Trinity....

Hey 3:38, the fact that you got a 1/2 scholarship to UVA but didn't get into Columbia or NYU makes it clear that you got that offer only because you're from Virginia and UVA has their in-state requirement. You must have really hated UVA as an undergrad to turn it down for Fordham at full tuition. But even so, how the hell do you make that decision?

4:02 - have you ever been to UVa? Know anyone who went there? The answer to your question should be pretty clear.

11:29,
Your mom may be mortified to be the parent of a Fordham student, but I'd hardly call her "inanimate."

Obviously I did not get into NYU or Columbia, but I did get into UVa with a 1/2 ride and obviously that is because of alumni status (UVA law does consider in-state tutition in their admissions decision because unlike Uva undergrad, they DO NOT have in-state "quotas" to fill).

I actually LOVED UVa for undergrad, but I LOVE new york (city) A LOT more.

Generally, I found that all the little things that I did not really care for at UVA undergrad (frattiness, preppiness, old boy netwroks, madras pants and seersucker, girls in pearls, and all around southern/waspiness) was 100 times as bad at uva law....so that's why I'd prefer to be at Fordham...and I do not regret my decision. I'm summering at a v20 firm and I most likely would have ended up at the SAME firm had I gone to UVA...and since I could care less about clerking, academia, or national prestige, I'm perfecly happy at fordham.

fyi...my mentor at Fordham, who went to Harvard undergrad, turned down UVA Law and Harvard Law to go to Fordham because he wanted to come back to New York because that is where he is from. Obviously, I will concede that if Fordham were outside of NY, it would not be that great of a school...but then again, if NYU was not in Manhattan, it would also be a shitty school.

4:39, you are still a law student. What a surprise. This board has gone down hill, and I appreciate that I am a loser being a 4th year still reading this. I need to move on.

Enjoy summering at v20, you have not yet had to "enjoy" spending your legal career explaining away Fordham. Law School grades stop mattering after 2nd year, but law school never stops.

I predict in less than 5 years you will be trying to convince people you got in to UVA as some sort of badge to justify Fordham, as everyone will assume you had shitty grades to go there. Oh wait, that is what you are doing now.

Look, Fordham's law is a very good school, without a doubt, with solid placement, but it is ludicrous to state that its graduates are in the same position as Cornell and Penn grads for NYC biglaw. The statistics are telling; much higher percentages of Cornell and Penn students are in the major NYC firms, and recruiters do go deeper into Cornell's and Penn's classes (much deeper than Fordham's top 50%). These schools have major pipelines into NYC biglaw.

Fordham has a great location, solid faculty, and great students, but let's be realistic...the facilities are nothing to crow about, and the financial resources are not that great either. This makes a big difference in the kinds of programs that a school can offer, and both Cornell and Penn beat Fordham in terms of what they can offer academically. They also have the advantage of much smaller class sizes than Fordham, so the "wealth" has an even bigger impact.

Are Philly and Ithaca even comparable to living in NYC? Of course not...but don't think for a minute that major NYC firms are heavily recruiting a wide range of students at both Cornell and Penn, a much wider range of students (gradewise) than at Fordham.

Fordham is a great school, and for people who really want or need to be in NYC, a great option. But to claim its career options in NYC biglaw are similar to Cornell's and Penn's just isn't the case.

Um, most people pick Cornell over other similarly ranked schools because of its small size and excellent job prospects post-graduation (in NYC, SF, LA, Chi, or wherever). Many who are there end up really enjoying Ithaca, and even those who don't appreciate the fact that the cost of living upstate is dirt cheap (result: at least $15,000 less in debt per year than NYC living). Although very few stay in Ithaca, I haven't known any Cornell grads to regret spending 3 years there. I'm not interested in bashing Fordham, but the idea that Cornell somehow has a more difficult time placing its students in top jobs in NYC vis-a-vis Fordham is a joke.

Cornell doesnt have a problem placing students. But its common knowledge that more socially active students turn down Cornell for Fordham. I know several who turned down Cornell's gorges for Fordham and guess what they are doing quite well for themselves going BIGLAW.

Cornell doesnt have a problem placing students. But its common knowledge that more socially active students turn down Cornell for Fordham. I know several who turned down Cornell's gorges for Fordham and guess what they are doing quite well for themselves going BIGLAW.

Cornell doesnt have a problem placing students. But its common knowledge that more socially active students turn down Cornell for Fordham. I know several who turned down Cornell's gorges for Fordham and guess what they are doing quite well for themselves going BIGLAW.

Cornell doesnt have a problem placing students. But its common knowledge that more socially active students turn down Cornell for Fordham. I know several who turned down Cornell's gorges for Fordham and guess what they are doing quite well for themselves going BIGLAW. Although I agree that Fordham does not have the same clout that Cornell and UPenn have. However, its pretty darn good.

4:45 - the fact that you are a 4th year M&A associate and still posting on this blog shows that you are a pathetic elitist t10/v10 douche with no life nor any actual work to do.

Obviously I would have loved to go to NYU/Columbia...just as poeple at NYU/Columbia would probably have preferred HYS...but after meeting quite a few Ivy leaguers (and NYU) kids, I realize that Fordham isn't that bad when you factor in the douches I would have had to deal with at a "better" school

4:42 AND 5:06 - I totally agree...firms obviously dig much deeper into Cornell and Penn...but the bottom half are still relatively screwed at Fordham, Cornell, etc...(though firms do dig up to 3/4 of the way into Columbia, Penn, Northwestern etc.)

Perfectly rational people would and have picked Fordham over Cornell because they want to be in NY.

People do pick UVa and Cornell because they prefer to be in the country, prefer a slower pace, and probably have a family etc., but they sacrifice a lot.

One of my best friends goes to Uva and his summer judicial internship was in the Western District of Virginia - Lynchburg and his fall internship was at the Staunton commonwealth Attorney's office (D.A.) whereas my internships were with the NYSE, the SDNY, and the Manhattan DA....where I actually had interesting things to work on while he was working on mobile home meth busts and domestic violence.

Cornell obvoiusly doesnt have a problem placing students in NYC biglaw...and neither does Penn....but Fordham is not TOO far behind...especially if by BIGLAW you mean firms that pay 145/160 and not just v100...for most poeple, it is just about the $$$ not the prestige

Cornell doesnt have a problem placing students. But its common knowledge that more socially active students turn down Cornell for Fordham. I know several who turned down Cornell's gorges for Fordham and guess what they are doing quite well for themselves going BIGLAW. Although I agree that Fordham does not have the same clout that Cornell and UPenn have. However, its pretty darn good.

Cornell doesnt have a problem placing students. But its common knowledge that more socially active students turn down Cornell for Fordham. I know several who turned down Cornell's gorges for Fordham and guess what they are doing quite well for themselves going BIGLAW. Although I agree that Fordham does not have the same clout that Cornell and UPenn have. However, its pretty darn good.

Cornell doesnt have a problem placing students. But its common knowledge that more socially active students turn down Cornell for Fordham. I know several who turned down Cornell's gorges for Fordham and guess what they are doing quite well for themselves going BIGLAW.

Cornell doesnt have a problem placing students. But its common knowledge that more socially active students turn down Cornell for Fordham. I know several who turned down Cornell's gorges for Fordham and guess what they are doing quite well for themselves going BIGLAW. Although I agree that Fordham does not have the same clout that Cornell and UPenn have. However, its pretty darn good.

4:45 - I predict that within 3 months, you'll be laid off. With your fabulous people skills, you should have no problem finding another job.

5:33 - I conur, I'm surprised that 4:45 wasn't already laid off from his "prestigious" M&A job ...he probably has so much time to post because he's on severance, maybe from CWT or SonnensheinCLT

The NYU/CLS/UPENN/UVA kids bashing fordham are kids who'd sell their families to have gotten in to HYS. They need to feel better about their rejections so they need to call Fordham TTT even though its a known fact that a good chunk of Fordham students have the same stats as CLS students even if it does account for the lower third of their admit pool. Get your self esteem from something other than your degree - you were all obviously social rejects.

4:39, Wahoowa!

"I'll take a full ride and graduate at the top of my T2 school, and get the same damn job as some elitist snob who now owes > $100k in tuition. Now who's the dumbass?"

Ha, that is sweet.

"I'll take a full ride and graduate at the top of my T2 school, and get the same damn job as some elitist snob who now owes > $100k in tuition. Now who's the dumbass?"

Ha, that is sweet.

I went to high school with her. Reunion is going to be fun!

I going to state again that the statistics are out there, and they just do not support the assertion that "bottom 50% of Cornell is screwed" for biglaw. Fordham's biglaw placement is just not comparable, percentagewise. Yes, Fordham is a great school, but the firms will dig well in the 75% of the class at least for biglaw (or rather, firms that pay those biglaw salaries) at Cornell; not the case for Fordham.

There are great opportunities to be had coming out of Fordham, but to say they are the same as Cornell's is not correct. For those who are more conservative in terms of risk (and want to assure themselves of a better chance at biglaw pay), the odds are just better at Cornell than Fordham.

Of course, other factors go into the decision of where to attend law school. But based on biglaw pay alone, you will have a much better chance of making it coming out of Cornell, even though Fordham is more than respectable in its placement in NYC biglaw.

If you're from the boroughs, Ithaca isn't any more New York than Ann Arbor.

How does Fordham compare in placing in NYC as compared to Northwestern, Michigan, Duke, UVA -- i.e. schools far far away?

"I'll take a full ride and graduate at the top of my T2 school, and get the same damn job as some elitist snob who now owes > $100k in tuition. Now who's the dumbass?"

Awesome!

"I'll take a full ride and graduate at the top of my T2 school, and get the same damn job as some elitist snob who now owes > $100k in tuition. Now who's the dumbass?"

This person rocks. Long live the scholarship. Poor saps who spent a fortune on law school, just so they can end up at the same place.

"I'll take a full ride and graduate at the top of my T2 school, and get the same damn job as some elitist snob who now owes > $100k in tuition. Now who's the dumbass?"

You're looking pretty good financially right now, but your options may be limited later if you want to go try something else in law or maybe go into business? Or will it matter come partnership time at some of these white shoe firms where there are many HYS partners but none from your T2 school? Like someone said earlier, law school grades stop counting after a few years, but your law school stays with you forever.

I have no skin in this game, but I seriously cannot believe that people are debating Fordham v. Cornell. I gather that you can get in the door just about anywhere in NY(C) if you do well at Fordham, but that's about all it will get you. Yes, you will still be explaining away your Fordham degree years later. I'm not saying that this is fair, but it's the truth, from what I've witnessed. Also, Penn and Cornell place much better elsewhere (my knowledge is mostly CA, where I see almost no Fordham grads). Is OMM or MoFo going to hire the Fordham grad or the Cornell grad...?

-3rd-year M&A associate (Yes, we're slow, that's why the 4th-year and I have time to post. I'm actually glad this site isn't _all_ law students so that we actually have some useful, "insider" information here from time-to-time, not just some clueless 1L's opinion on why PH sucks so badly.)

Look...i never said that Fordham and Cornell/Penn do the same...

but for those who want the 6 figure big law salary AND want to go to school in NYC...fordham is a better option, espeically in terms of interesting school-year internships....

Obvoiusly if you want to maximize your biglaw chances, cornell and penn are better....as are NWestern, UVa, Duke etc...but many people, espeically myself, place a HUGE premium on living/working in NYC. I didn't even apply to Cornell or Duke, though, like everyone else at Fordham...I did apply to (and was rejected by) Columbia, NYU, Penn, and GULC

Also, Most Forhdam grads have NO interest in working outside of NY...so its immaterial to us how well Fordham does with OMM and MoFo unless its their NY Office (which Fordham places very well into)

No question difference between Cornell /UPENN vs. Fordham but that difference aint great thats the point.

No question difference between Cornell /UPENN vs. Fordham but that difference aint great thats the point.

Look, T2 guy -

The fact that you got a biglaw job from a shitty school that gave you a full ride does not make you BETTER than those of us who paid to go to a top law school, it makes you MORE FORTUNATE than your peers at the T2.

Stop feeling so smug and appreciate your good fortune.

I going to state again that the statistics are out there, and they just do not support the assertion that "bottom 50% of Cornell is screwed" for biglaw. Fordham's biglaw placement is just not comparable, percentagewise. Yes, Fordham is a great school, but the firms will dig well in the 75% of the class at least for biglaw (or rather, firms that pay those biglaw salaries) at Cornell; not the case for Fordham.

There are great opportunities to be had coming out of Fordham, but to say they are the same as Cornell's is not correct. For those who are more conservative in terms of risk (and want to assure themselves of a better chance at biglaw pay), the odds are just better at Cornell than Fordham.

Of course, other factors go into the decision of where to attend law school. But based on biglaw pay alone, you will have a much better chance of making it coming out of Cornell, even though Fordham is more than respectable in its placement in NYC biglaw.

*********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

LETS GET BACK ON SUBJECT... Laura Leigh Reifinger

- It is OK for women to try and pose nude in a magaine.
- It is OK for LLR to try and pose nude in a magazine.
- It is OK that Lat posted this article because those of us in hiring positions like to know about the judgment of the law students who we interview. LLR's judgment = not so good. Like famous Skaddan's summer, Aaron Charney, Shinyung Oh ... people remember certain names/stories, and someone at the table always will remember LLR's lack of judgment. And while LLR's story did not materialize, she will apply to firms (likely including mine) in a year or so, and I suspect this story will follow her.

Lat is not to blame for LLR's own lack of judgment.

*********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

LETS GET BACK ON SUBJECT... Laura Leigh Reifinger

- It is OK for women to try and pose nude in a magaine.
- It is OK for LLR to try and pose nude in a magazine.
- It is OK that Lat posted this article because those of us in hiring positions like to know about the judgment of the law students who we interview. LLR's judgment = not so good. Like famous Skaddan's summer, Aaron Charney, Shinyung Oh ... people remember certain names/stories, and someone at the table always will remember LLR's lack of judgment. And while LLR's story did not materialize, she will apply to firms (likely including mine) in a year or so, and I suspect this story will follow her.

Lat is not to blame for LLR's own lack of judgment.

7:50-- This story will not follow her. It really is not a big deal b/c she dropped out before the pics posted. No biggie.

Agree with 7:55 PM. This story is nothing and it will be yesterday's news by tomorrow.

Well, it's one less photo the NY Post will have to crop for their article. Glad she made the right choice.

Some of us would be damn happy to get into Fordham. As in, everyone going to BLS, Cardozo, NYLS, Pace, Hofstra, etc.

It's a great thing that the world is becoming a freer place, but it's also becoming a meaner, more spiteful and vindictive place . . .

ATL is a "mean, spiteful and vindictive" place . . . e.g., comments re: Lat, Kash, Sharon and other guest bloggers. Anonymity shouldn't preclude civility.

Aw, shucks. I really wanted to see her rack & ass.

dammit.

I know this charming young girl. She ain't all that. Period. Saw some Facebook pics. Found story to be very nasty, though entertaining. She will hopefully now find a horny older finance guy to pay for her shit and forgo the vagaries of paying for/suffering through law school.

Lat, you are callous and classless for nationally outing her and making a record of her lapse in judgment on this site.

Shame on you.

Lat, you are callous and classless for nationally outing her and making a record of her lapse in judgment on this site.

Shame on you.

9:20 / 9:21.

LLR -- not Lat -- is "callous and classless" for entering a hooker / stripping contest in a magazine and for thinking that her "lapse in judgment" would be kept secret.

Shame on you, 9:20/9:21, for defending LLR's hooker-tendencies.

9:20 / 9:21.

LLR -- not Lat -- is "callous and classless" for entering a hooker / stripping contest in a magazine and for thinking that her "lapse in judgment" would be kept secret.

Shame on you, 9:20/9:21, for defending LLR's hooker-tendencies.