Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, LICENSE PLATES????

One of the reasons Christians get such a bad reputation is that they spend time doing this stupid stuff instead of, oh, helping the poor or being kind to their neighbors.

It is my hope that the next generation of Christian leaders will not waste their time on license plates, flag-burning amendments, and other reactionary political measures having NO relation to any Biblical commandment.

Signed,

Disgruntled Christian

But what about this argument from the CNN article?

"Republican Sen. Ronda Storms, a plate proponent, said the state had created a "public forum" by allowing a variety of license plate designs with different messages. Restricting speech in that forum was also unconstitutional, Storms said."

Hey Kash, what is with the compound modifier talk? That is SEN's shtick.

Just Obnoxious

Is "IN SATAN" taken as a vainty plate in Florida (assuming it fits the number of characters requirements)?

The consequences of "I Believe" could be hilarious.
"IN MILF" would be good too.

Indiana has a license plate with "in God We Trust":

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/15913841/detail.html

Boy oh boy, those Satan jokes are just a laugh-a-minute!

8:51 -- click the link that says: I BELIEVE tag hits speed bump (rejoice) [Legal Satyricon] above -- it deals with that.

-MJR

Can someone explain to me why it's okay to have "In God We Trust" on both the money, and above the Judge in some courtrooms? I've never understood this. If you were a criminal defendant who was an atheist (or someone who believed in something other than the government's constructions of "GOD"), how would you feel looking at that throughout your trial, and supposedly thinking "In the JUSTICE SYSTEM we trust"? If you know the answer, please explain. TIA.

ACTUAL LICENSE PLATES SEEN IN VIRGINIA

MRBATE - a bumper sticker to the left said "Honk if you"

MILFMBL - on a crummy old Volvo in Virginia - didn't see the driver. I have no idea how this one got through the censors.

@9:21

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust

Thanks, 9:26. That was interesting. It doesn't answer the question, though. Why is it NOT unconstitutional?

I kind of like the "public forum" argument. My first take was that the state allows...say, competing universities to be on bumper stickers, so is the state endorsing or giving a preference to one university over the other? I mean, so long as there were Jewish and Muslim and what-not plates available, would it still be a problem? Of course, then you get into making a list of what is a religion...perhaps a never-ending list of potential license plates...like the "Yearning for Zion" one and the "Mystics" and "Wicca" and "We worship cheese!" and what-not. (Cheese is pretty good, btw. I believe in cheese. Perhaps not as a savior. But it's good on pizza. And can you say that for God?)

I kind of like the "public forum" argument. My first take was that the state allows...say, competing universities to be on bumper stickers, so is the state endorsing or giving a preference to one university over the other? I mean, so long as there were Jewish and Muslim and what-not plates available, would it still be a problem? Of course, then you get into making a list of what is a religion...perhaps a never-ending list of potential license plates...like the "Yearning for Zion" one and the "Mystics" and "Wicca" and "We worship cheese!" and what-not. (Cheese is pretty good, btw. I believe in cheese. Perhaps not as a savior. But it's good on pizza. And can you say that for God?)

Caroline Corbin has an article forthcoming in the NYU Law Review that touches on the status of these types of license plates. http://ssrn.com/abstract=1114642. She argues that a new standard of "Mixed Speech" (as opposed to purely government or private speech) should apply.

8:48 - it's people like you who "claim to be christian" that give christians a bad name.

9:35 - it's constitutional because the Supreme Court, by passing, upheld 3 separate federal circuit cases declaring it constitutional. Even the 9th Circuit ruled it constitutional.

The ACLU helped a muslim woman sue Florida because it wanted her to remove her vail for a driver's license photo - I wonder where they are on this issue?

I heart Voltron

Agreed 8:48 - and well put. All you left out was the authoritarian and narcissistic tendency to pronounce on who can be a christian. See 9:55 for an example.

This is Kashmir Hill's best post ever.

this one's pretty easy: as long as muslims, jews, atheists, etc. can put their own slogans and imagery on their plates, a reasonable motorist would not assume that Florida supports a particular religion over another.

agreed 10:16

8:48/10:11 -

you both prove my point. You'll take any opportunity to bash christians all under the guise of being one yourself.

Have you ever said "now this is what give muslims a bad name...car bombs, homicide bombers, no womens rights, no gays (period), killing a nun over a cartoon, blowing up airplanes... I doubt it.

However, you find it acceptable and even revel in bashing christians at any chance.

9:55

Hello 9:55

Pointing out what I believe to be the misguided deeds of other Christians does not constitute "bashing." I don't revel in such activity. It's troubling that you appear to construe any criticism of American Christians as "bashing."

However, if you can entertain the idea that I'm really not an atheist pretending to be a Christian on an anonymous message board, perhaps you can comment on the substance of my idea - specifically, that much of the culture war Christians have fought has been ineffective, divisive, and even sinful.

I don't advocate watering down doctrine to make it more palatable to modern sensibilities, or pretending that the Bible is just warm and fuzzy, but wasting time and energy on something as stupid as a license plate seems to be misplaced.

Cheers,

8:48

MY NUTS

Kash to Editor-in-Chief!

"Just get a decal"? What other fun arguments can you make? "Just sit in the back of the bus" perhaps?

For those of you thinking these plates are a good idea...please see the newest post about the Nazis. Their plate wouldn't be far behind...then the FDLS and other crazy cults...I mean religions.

LOL @ Maybe they should change the state's nickname to "Show Me How To Use a Compound Modifier."
Nice to see that you can also write artilces that don't have sexual overtones.

9:25, are you Scott Keen?

Also, what does MILFMBL mean? I don't get it.

The Florida Senate has its eyes on the road this month. A few weeks back, they passed legislation imposing a $60 fine on truck nutz. Now, they're denying Christians the right to their own vanity license plates.

Nice attempt at plural and singular pronoun use.

Christian lawyers should be ashamed of themselves (even moreso than all other christians). Try telling a judge (or the SEC, or a partner) that you have no evidence for a legal proposition but are basing your arguments only on blind idiotic self-interested belief (I mean "faith").

@11:18

MILF-mobile most likely.

I've also seen MILFWGN on a white bmw wagon here in VA.

Kash- excellent work.

"It's troubling that you appear to construe any criticism of American Christians as 'bashing.'"

WINNER!

oh nossss, an optional addition to your license plate that indicates you are a christian...whats next conversion at the barrel of a gun... that is clearly the next step in this continual attack on secular america!

*yawwwn*

One last try: I understand that it IS constitutional to say In God We Trust on the money and in the courtrooms, but WHY is it constitutional? That's my question.

Please 12:43, christians are always the first to cry "attack" when anyone fails to pander to them (see, as one of many examples, the "war on christmas" every single year).

12:56, the operative legal term here is "fuck-it bucket"--those things aren't bad enough to get worked up about.

@12:56 - One last attempt at answering this ridiculous question:

Aronow v. United States," 432 F.2d 242 (1970) in the United States Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit The court ruled that:

"It is quite obvious that the national motto and the slogan on coinage and currency 'In God We Trust' has nothing whatsoever to do with the establishment of religion. Its use is of patriotic or ceremonial character and bears no true resemblance to a governmental sponsorship of a religious exercise."

"Madalyn Murray O'Hair, et al. v. W. Michael Blumenthal, Secretary of Treasury, et al." 588 F.2d 1144 (1979) in the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit. Ms. O'Hair successfully challenged compulsory prayer in U.S. public schools. The United States District Court, Western District of Texas, referring to the wording of the Ninth Circuit above, ruled that:

"From this it is easy to deduce that the Court concluded that the primary purpose of the slogan was secular; it served as secular ceremonial purpose in the obviously secular function of providing a medium of exchange. As such it is equally clear that the use of the motto on the currency or otherwise does not have a primary effect of advancing religion."

This ruling was sustained by the Fifth Circuit court.

1:11, that holding is utter bullshit. There is no way that "In God We Trust" has a purely secular meaning. That's just retarded. It was merely a way for the court to avoid coming to the conclusion that it would have to be removed from all of our coins and bills, because would be even more retarded.

because "that" would be even more retarded.

No doubt the Muslim license plate will be unanimously approved in a few weeks, since to prohibit that would be Islamophobic.

1:11, you should be troubled by your inability to see the circular nature of your argument.

Phrases like "quite obvious," "obviously secular," and "rediculous question" will signal, to any decent lawyer, that the Court (or poster) is bullshitting in order to arrive at a predetermined decision. The use of "In God We Trust" on currency and in the courtrooms is only constitutional because couts are being intellecutally dishonest.

"In God We Trust" is not religious = the Easter Bunny is real = COA jurisprudence. How rEdiculous.

9:25, this is the greatest Virginia vanity plate ever:

http://www.coolpl8z.com/view-plate.php?id=1380

We had this topic on our Con Law II final at GW. I could've aced the exam ... but I didn't have access to ATL during my exam!

I would want my plate to say "I don't believe, I think"