Associate Bonus Watch: The 2008 Orrick Bonus Table
(And Some Thoughts on the Last Bonus Season)
The 2007 bonus season ended some time ago, even for firms on the late side. We’re almost halfway through 2008, and you know what that means: time to look ahead to the next bonus cycle.
In the 2007 bonus cycle, the top New York-based firms generally still paid lockstep bonuses, both year-end and “special,” at the market levels set by Cravath as first mover. We called this a “true match” of Cravath.
Beyond that small group of firms, however, there was a trend towards squishiness greater customization and tailoring. Firms already winded by the nationwide sprint to a $160,000 starting salary were understandably not eager to pay everyone, star performers and laggards alike, Cravath-sized bonuses. Instead, they paid individualized bonuses, tailored to factors such as the specific associate’s billable hours and quality of work. Some firms tried to make it appear as if they had matched the Cravath bonuses, even if they hadn’t (e.g., by pasting the Cravath numerical table into their own bonus memo, but then saying they paid bonuses “up to” the listed amounts, or to associates “in good standing,” or to associates who met a certain hours threshold).
Anyway, enough about 2007 — on to 2008. Most firms don’t announce bonus levels in advance. But some firms do, and prominent among them is Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe.
Orrick, you will recall, is the firm that took $160K beyond Gotham. A little over a year ago, in May 2007, Orrick raised its California offices (except Sacramento) to a $160,000 starting salary. That pay raise then rippled out across the country, to Washington, Chicago, and other major legal markets.
(So if you blame the latest associate pay raise for causing the latest associate layoffs, blame Orrick. They fired the first shot in that battle.)
Orrick just released its 2008 bonus memo. We didn’t receive the text of the memo, but we’re guessing it’s similar to last year’s memo.
We did, however, receive the numerical table of Orrick bonus ranges. The good news: the numbers are the same as last year. The bad news: the numbers are the same as last year.
Of course, in these dreary economic times, stasis should be considered good news. If you’re curious — maybe you’re at a peer firm to Orrick, and curious about what your counterparts’ “standard” and “discretionary” bonuses — the table appears after the jump.
Here is the table. As always, we welcome bonus news and memos via email (subject line: “Associate Bonus Watch”).
ORRICK HERRINGTON & SUTCLIFFE — MEMORANDUM — 2008 ASSOCIATE BONUS PROGRAM
(92) 
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"On the late side" -- doesn't everyone announce and pay bonuses before December 31?
No, some firms pay them early the next year.
2:58: No. Lots announce and pay after that.
Firms that do hours-based bonuses (which seem to predominate among West Coast-originated firms) have to wait until the end of their measuring period to pay the bonus. There are a few firms that use Oct-Oct. or Nov.-Nov. years, but for hours based bonuses using the calendar year, they can't be paid out until early in the next year.
FIFTH, WOOT!!!
It still amazes me that someone one year out of law school (a non-stub-year first-year) could earn $205,000 - more than most judges.
That's just wrong.
3:27 - and if they lateral, they can get an extra 10K (LL or prosumes) or 18K (FirmToFirm) from their HH! So make that up to $223,000.
Cravath Associates make a lot of money because they are Cravath material and are therefore a cut above the rest.
not to state what's been said many, many times, but most judges have a much, much, much better lifestyle than any junior BigLaw associate.
Is douchebag CB still there?
Way to go, Uncle O!
Give me an O!
Give me an H!
Give me an S!
What's that spell?
Top Comp. Gotta love 'em.
Come on, wanna-be peer firms. Time to match Orrick (again).
so what's the hours threshold for the "standard bonus" and what determines who gets a "discretionary bonus"?
18K? From a recruiter?
Whats with all of the Cravath comments? Are they really that unflappable?
That O is the intellectual property of O'Melveny & Myers LLP. Please remove it from your website.
3:41 - indeed, 18K. http://www.firmtofirm.com
small potatoes
What's Cravath?
Meat and potatoes.
3:38: I'm at OHS. The discretionary part is set by your typical bundle of considerations: quality of work, non-billable contributions, etc. If you bill a lot of hours (above 2100) and sit on a committee or write a published article or something, you'll generally get the whole discretionary portion. If you bill average hours (2000, which includes pro bono) and do average work, you generally will just get the standard bonus with maybe a discretionary bump on top. Last year I believe the firm overrode this policy in NY to match the standard NY bonus for NY associates, although I'm not 100% sure if I'm remembering that correctly.
"small potatoes" - 18K for doing nothing sounds pretty good to me.
Seriously, what is cravath? This is the second time I've heard them mentioned on this blog
All OMM owns is a bunch of about-to-be unemployed associates and a distant, long-shot dream of growing up to be Orrick Jr.
Doesn't Orrick sell vacuums and encyclopedias?
CraveAss.
4:15--Here is a decent description.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cravath,_Swaine_&_Moore
A cravath is a fracture in a glacier caused by a large tensile stress at or near the glacier's surface. Why is someone practicing ice law a cut above the rest? Is it because they get to bang Eskimos?
I would bang a Cravath Eskimo. Twice.
Does Cravath even have nice offices?
4:22 - Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer was a paralegal in Cravath before going to lawschool
Is "Cravath material" the kind from which they make JCPenny suits?
4:19, all I know is that they sell enough vacuums to pay better than OMM.
Cravath = Goldman Sachs of Law firms = Tiger Wood of law firms etc. Get the point retards, aka 4:31, 4:33 et al - I understand it is hard to acknowledge Cravath's greatness when it so brazenly rejected your sorry asses for not being good enough.
What about "Top Legal Talent Bonus"?
Need a tissue 4:43?
Cravath Material is cut from the finest cloth money can buy. Cravath Material is cut directly from the golden fleece of xenu.
Craveass associates have gold sacks? Gross.
Orrick really sells vacuums?
Too bad Cravath isn't as good at Wachtell. :(
I thought Cravath merged with Schulte.
Optimal Course of Action:
Assuming that you're at a firm paying Cravath-level salaries and bonuses, get your end year bonus of 45K, then lateral to a firm in Alaska, where you can not only pick up your 18K bonus from the recruiter, but you can also find yourself a couple of Eskimos.
The Wachtell folks would be on here pointing out that they pwn Cravath in every way imaginable, but they're busy doing actual work. Sounds like things are slow at the Death Star.
Orrick's base bonus gets paid out at 2000 hours, and 10k of the discretionary for 2100. Then the discretionary scales pro rata from 2100-2400. The discretionary portion also gets paid out for getting green stars.
Last year the NY associates who billed 2000 hours got the supplemental bonus.
Aren't these numbers actually below market? I think market was $55k for second years and Orrick maxes out at $50k.
Not in Cali or DC, 5:12.
If Orrick sells vacuums it sells enough to pay better than OMM.
FYI - Orrick has gone the route of the stealth layoffs for a while now. It is especially active in this regard on the West Coast. Of course given that the majority of biglaw shops are doing the same thing, it isn't really that big a deal (unless you are one of the associates "separated")
FYI - I'm an associate at Orrick and, clearly, 5:49 is not. There have been no stealth layoffs at Orrick.
thanks for all the explanations regarding what a cravath is... it sounds painful... my friend once had a cravath in his tooth ... it hurt like hell
Yeah, what the hell, 5:49? Just sign whatever TTT firm you really mean. I'm at Orrick and we haven't lost anyone (except for the onesees and twosees taking off to deliver babies or go to a client). We're at a net gain in my office since '07.
I have a friend at Orrick - seems like a good place to be. Good money, good environment. Color me a tad jealous :)
Can we have a post on these annoying recruiters? I've gotten up to 10 calls in one week from them. I ask my secretary to screen them, but the fucking cockroaches have figured out how to lie their way into my voicemail.
If I read that Summer Associate's email correctly, Cravath is the number 1 firm in Croatia for fashion law (concentrating in neckware)
i'm at orrick in sf and do not consider myself a cheerleader by any stretch. I can't comment on other offices, but people seem reasonably busy here. actually, the talk around here is that turnover is glacial. a few people left after bonuses were paid, but that's been pretty much it in 2008. 5:49, I'm not sure where you're getting your information. maybe you're talking about seattle or something; I cannot corroborate.
to clarify, 2000 hours = $25K, 2100 hours = $10K extra, and additional $10K is discretionary based on hours/work.
4:43:
You're wrong. Tiger Woods and to some extent Goldman Sachs are household names. If I go up to virtually anyone in the world and mention Tiger Woods, that means something to them.
Cravath means absolutely nothing outside of an insular world of some lawyers and a limited amount of businessmen. It means nothing to 99.99999 percent of the world population. So get over yourself, and stop trying to rationalize working in a sweatshop representing Wal-Mart and Haliburton.
Hi. I'm David Orrick. Did you know that I run a big-time law firm that represents very important companies?
My Cravath hurts and I think its inflamed.
7:38, the "of law firms" takes care of the problem. Clearly, saying Cravath is the Tiger Woods of law firms is saying that it means something in the legal community. Although, it is obvious from the board that people don't think so. Since there is no consensus, I do not think there can be a Tiger Woods of the law world because everyone agrees Tiger Woods is the best golfer in the world. I would say Cravath is the Colin Montgomery of the legal community.
7:55--that's pretty harsh--maybe Phil Mickelson or at least Jim Furyk.
For those of you in the South, that would be the Jeff Burton or Matt Kenseth of law firms.
If Cravath is Phil Mickelson, then Skadden is John Daly and Latham is Michele Wie.
If you rub ointment on your cravath the swelling will go down and it will stop hurting
Re: Orrick Seattle, I know they lost a few partners and a few associates to Fenwick West's newly opened Seattle office.
It doesn't sound like much, but Orrick's Seattle office only had about 10 partners and 15 associates, and they lost about 5 partners and 5 associates to Fenwick. Not sure what the reasons were for jumping ship though.
I want to work at Cravath because I heard they do hood rat stuff. Where can I download an application?
Cravath doesn't waste its time with mortals. Cravath only represents gods.
Yeah, Fenwick got OHS pretty good in Seattle/Portland. But that's not a layoff.
SeamlessWeb just tastes better when I know I make more than the champs at A&P and my firm's happy about paying it. Enter Sandman.
Orrick or Mofo for SF Biglaw?
Can the poster above please substantiate his or her claim that Orrick has had "stealth" layoffs, whatever that may mean?
Would this be a good place to point out that Paul Hastings doesn't pay out the bonus (which they measure on the calender year) until March!
First years that means you won't see a bonus until 16 months after your start date.
Terrible.
8:01: Great post.
No, he can't, 5:41.
it's sad that orrick competitors are now so desperate they have to make up stories and post them on internet sites.
orrick's bay area offices are growing like crazy. sf is looking for another floor and sv is looking for another building to house everyone. stealth layoffs? riiiight. that's a funny claim to those of us actually here.
as to the comment about an associate making up to $205,000 one year out of law school, which is more than judges, shut up. i am sick and tired of hearing people moan about associate pay. judges earn more than a paycheck - it's called prestige. for some, that means more than a paycheck.
as someone who entered law as a second career, i make national firm money, and feel grossly underpaid. i made more as an associate-level banker than i make as a third year associate, and i worked much less. this occupation requires your life - days, nights, weekdays, weekends, whatever. the stuff never ends. we are paid for our extensive education and our TIME.
i know oil field roughnecks in texas who make $180,000 a year. wow, that's more than a federal judge, and most only have a high school diploma. why? their work is dangerous, and they work ALL THE FREAKIN' TIME (just like an associate at BIGLAW).
so go somewhere else and troll you loser. i am sick of hearing that bs statement.
as to orrick, good on them. that bonus schedule is respectable, and lockstep (which is always a nice deal).
To agree with 1248p:
My dad, who barely fell out of high school, manages a small car dealership (not owns) pulls in 300k a year and has great benefits and stock options.
Eat one. We are grossly underpaid.
Why are there so many Orrick attorneys trolling this board?
Are you for real, 1:51? Did you see the green O at the top of the thread?
What are Orricks peer firms?
Agreed. Orrick attorneys are quite active on this board. It is sort of strange.
Well, Orrick is a big firm, and the post does have a big "O" on top of it. That probably explains a lot of the presence.
Morons. All of you.
2:36, why are you so defensive? Just stating the obvious -- a lot of trolling going on.
orrick ppl love their firm. what's wrong with that? you'd think that's a good sign.
Looks like Orrick is paying below market compared to MoFo at the high end. An Orrick 8th year peaks at 85K, MoFo at 135K and MoFo is still going gangbusters
Huh, 6:15? Do you think that a top 8th yr (who isn't a partner) isn't going to get paid plenty at any firm? And do you really think MoFo actually ever pays its top bonuses (which you have to bill 2100 to even qualify for)?
MoFo: The firm that brought us the fake match.
to be clear, does this mean that every single lawyer at a top NY firm is getting at least as much this year as we did last year?
Apparently, Skadden has done a fake match too last, requiring a 1800 minimum billable hours not including probono work.
I have heard of Skadden too...... i also heard that they are slow. is it true?
Orrick is laying off in DC, correct?
85 - 2100 to qualify for the top end of the bonus range is pretty fair, compared to most firms. MoFo usually pays the top end to at least the top 10% of Associates. I agree with 84. The Orrick numbers are below market.
Cravath is so impressive these days that they're commonly referred to as "Half-Skadden"?!? Kudos.