Being a summer isn't that hard. Good summary:

"Kiss up to partners. Shut up. Do work when given. Wear a clean suit. Don't get sloppy drunk. Don't annoy associates. And I don't give a damn that you went to my law school too."

adorable and appropriate lolcat

you have resorted to summarizing comments from previous posts? God this blog sucks.

Two thoughts:
1) Law schools are cash cows for universities (med school and b-school too), and they charge what they can. If there was no summer program, perhaps fewer students could afford law school, and either total numbers would drop, or cost would drop.

2) Anyone who thinks that a firm that doesn't run a summer program needs to increase salaries hasn't met the hordes of decent T20-T50 students who don't have jobs. Yeah, yeah, yeah TTT. Whatever.

The associates complaining in those quotes have nothing to worry about. They're just the prima donnas we summers don't want to work with anyway. If you're worried about layoffs go buy an attitude adjustment.

The associates complaining in those quotes have nothing to worry about. They're just the prima donnas we summers don't want to work with anyway. If you're worried about layoffs go buy an attitude adjustment.

Please God no summer option catchs on.

Jeez, what a bunch of bitter, pathetic associates. God forbid some summers actually want to talk to you about your work, the firm, or hell, just shoot some bullshit. You know, socializing? If you don't want to stay late 2 hours, don't go out to lunches with summers. Stay in your office and bill your fucking hours.

11:40, thank you!

I actually think that the summer program is a good thing from the firm's perspective. At the end of the day, a law firm is a big social network and it helps to make internal connections, both in your own class and at different levels. It is hard enough to walk into a 800-person firm and know who is who and what is going on, all while trying to bill 2300 hours a year.

The summer allows you to meet and connect with the people who will be starting with you in the following September, such that when you have a question about an area of law outside of your department, you have someone to call, and when you have a question or need help with someone, you have a fairly large network of not only co-workers, but friends, that can help you.

Law firms want attorneys to feel like they are a part of the firm (so they stay), and that is easier to achieve when that attorney has friends there and does not feel like and outsider. The summer program helps create those relationships.

That does not mean I think a law firm needs a lavish summer program, but daily lunches and social events are key in assimilating law students into the firm.

that is the cutest picture i've seen all day

This would effectively make law school ~$40,000 more expensive for students that would otherwise get SA's, that would blow.

I hate the idea that its called a "class." that b.s. is so sorority-type thinking. "We're not working, this is just like college!" Please. Just call it what it is: the group of inexperienced attorneys who just got out of law school.

"not 10 kids who can't tell the difference between pinot noir and pinot blanc"

Boy, you sound like loads of fun! You must have to beat off summers with a stick.

i hate cats and think they are the spawn of satan, but that kitten belongs on cuteoverload.com

Haha. Another picture of a kitty.

Haha. Another picture of a kitty.

"The firm development of socializing with summers is not [a] benefit to me. I'm a good midyear, soon to bounce to in house from a V20 firm this year or next. I don't care about the 2009 or 2010 or whatever class at my shop. It doesn't affect me. . . . I don't want to spend 25 minutes talking about what I do, or if Partner XYZ is cooler than Partner ABC, or if on day 2 I think you'll get an offer. Even taking you to lunch is not free. I make 250 a year. I can buy my own food at a 3 star michi restarant (well, once in a while.) And I'd rather have that meal with my wife, not 10 kids who can't tell the difference between pinot noir and pinot blanc."

My, what a sophisticate this person has become (having gotten an offer of permanent employment while he/she was himself/herself a summer associate, one presumes). What a shame that he/she, having been given the offer of permanent employment summers seek, now has to be burdened by having to attend lunch with rabble so deficient in their knowledge of the finer things that they know little about fine wine! (Or the French language--otherwise the distinction between noir and blanc would be self-explanatory.)

Yes, why on earth should one ever do something for someone else that doesn't redound to one's immediate, short-term benefit (billable hours vs. non-billable firm-development time plus ff miles)? Granting that *consistently* having to stay significantly later because of the need to deal with summers would take its toll on most busy full-time associates, it's called being a reasonably nice person, and not forgetting entirely where you yourself were just a few short years ago. Douchebag.

11:40 - that's an awfully bitter response to the realities of working as an associate at a mid- to large-sized law firm. Associates must meet their billable hours requirements or will face consequences. Similarly, first and second year associates especially are often expected to participate in the firm's summer program. When you're on the other side of the fence, perhaps you'll see it differently.

Kill the cat.
Kill the cat.
oh, and kill the summers too
they are equally annoying

11:33- correct re: law schools and b-schools
med schools however, are money losers. that's why no one is building them anymore. they require way too much overhead and their per student cost is usually six figures, despite their 50k tuitions

"The firm development of socializing with summers is not [a] benefit to me. I'm a good midyear, soon to bounce to in house from a V20 firm this year or next. I don't care about the 2009 or 2010 or whatever class at my shop. It doesn't affect me. . . . I don't want to spend 25 minutes talking about what I do, or if Partner XYZ is cooler than Partner ABC, or if on day 2 I think you'll get an offer. Even taking you to lunch is not free. I make 250 a year. I can buy my own food at a 3 star michi restarant (well, once in a while.) And I'd rather have that meal with my wife, not 10 kids who can't tell the difference between pinot noir and pinot blanc."

Once a jerk, always a jerk, plain and simple. Mister "250 a year" apparently thinks he's God's gift. Hey pal, I make 3X as much as you, can't tell the difference between pinot this and pinot that, actually take the time to welcome the summer associates at my firm, and try to do my part to make what can be a grueling job tolerable. Please go in house immediatey. Sounds like your wife has quite a catch -- are you sure she wants you home for dinner?

No one honestly likes cats. Case in point: everyone who has ever tried to convince me how great the cat has told me, "you'll love my cat, it's acts just like a dog!" Here's a thought: don't take the gamble, just get a dog.

These letters, and these comments, remind me why I hate lawyers.

1208- i agree; point taken. cats suck. but lolcats make me happy.

12:12- I'll concede that photos of cats are fine...actual cats are a different matter altogether.

Hey, assholes - remember when YOU were a summer associate? I guarantee you that 99% of the complaining associates had a lovely, easy, extremely highly-paid second summer when they were in law school during which they, too, "bothered" senior associates with their petty questions about assignments and the firm. Now that there's a crunch, they're belittling the programs that they themselves reaped serious benefits from.

"And I'd rather have that meal with my wife, not 10 kids who can't tell the difference between pinot noir and pinot blanc."

When I was a summer associate, partners who were undoubtedly a hell of a lot more important and busier than this dude is routinely set aside a couple of hours to go to lunch with summer associates. Do everybody a favor and sit in your office with the door closed. I can assure you the lunches you go to are far more painful for the summer associates than they are for you.

12:06--
Thanks for the correction.
--11:33

Look, summer programs serve no purpose except to subsidize law school education.

I am a 4th year associate who took a different path to get to my job with a v50 firm. Yes I am biased as I was no wined and dined and taken on social events that have no direct (or even indirect) relationship to the work I do.

HOWEVER, explain why firms spend $$$$ on golf, meals, parties, etc for the right to hire people who really would take the job regardless? If the summer program actually showed the students what working was really like, then maybe it would be useful. But it doesn't. I still remember my firend at law school that summered at Skadden. Had the Skadden pens, Skadden M&Ms, thought it was amazing. She called me in tears 3 months in as it was NOTHING like she thought. She quit once she got bonus after about 16 months. So how did summer plan work out there?

"In sum, you misers need to talk to school adminstrations before cutting pay." and

11:48 "This would effectively make law school ~$40,000 more expensive for students that would otherwise get SA's, that would blow."

WORLD'S SMALLEST VIOLIN, BITCHES. No BigLaw SA here, and no BigLaw after grad either. Toiling away like 98% OF ALL THE LAWYERS IN THIS COUNTRY NOT IN BIGLAW paying that same extra $40K you'd be paying without your cushy SA. Yeah, TTT me all you want, whatever.

ATM Machine: Feed me stray cat.

I love the pictures of kitties! I hate douches who think they're sophisticated befause they know the difference between pinot- this and pinot -that....no one cares, big-timer!

I love the pictures of kitties! I hate douches who think they're sophisticated because they know the difference between pinot- this and pinot -that....no one cares, big-timer!

I like any wine that gives me a buzz and doesn't make me go blind.

Can a NYC associate tell me what a single associate living in Manhattan at 160K will net each month after fed'l taxes (including SS), state taxes, and city taxes???

Any other deductions that come out?

Midlevel associate from a busy office with a large summer class here: it's not the lost billable hours that I care about--it's the work that doesn't get done. I'll have to do it in order to make my filing deadlines. At typical big-firm summer programs, summers & firm alike expect that the summers get taken out to lunch most days of the week. Leaving work 2 hours later just so summer associates can order apps & deserts sucks, to say nothing of the other social programs (happy hours, 'events', outings, etc.).

And another thing: lunch is not the exclusive way for associates to spend time with summer associates. And not wanting to spend two hours going to lunch does not mean that I am not a "reasonably nice person."

I lose so much time assigning work out to summer associates: getting up to speed, teaching basic practice skills not covered in law school, scrubbing their work into something that the client can actually use/pay for. If I cared only about my billable hours or getting the work done correctly & quickly, I would just do the work myself. Yet I still try to make meaningful work assignments for summers because that kind of time, while inefficient, is time well spent for associate and summer alike. Because that's how young attorneys learn--and yes, we all have been one of those. I would hope that most summer associates would prefer learning how to handle a mediation brief over, say, omakase or a tasting menu. Summer associate, maybe I would go out for lunch with you if I didn't just spend the last two hours having to flyspeck the work product you gave me. Me, I'd much rather go eat somewhere nice than at my desk reviewing your work. So don't lecture me about who is after the "immediate, short term benefit."

12:24 - The same story makes its way into probably half of the Tier 1 school Law Revue shows every year, and no one ever seems to realize that THEY ARE NOT KIDDING ABOUT THE UNDERLYING SUBJECT.

No, no one is going to ask you to turn to the Dark Side or kill your free puppy, but I thought most of you were liberal arts majors.

I graduated bottom third, and I drink Night Train. I summered at titty bars and beaches.

Depends highly on where in Manhattan you're talking about living. Harlem? Alphabet city? Central Park West?

Also, are you living in a studio by yourself? A one-bedroom? With someone? A two-bedroom with a roommate?

Too many variables.

JUSTIN, PLEASE:

1. STOP WRITING SO MANY WORDS, AND

2. GIVE US DETAILS ABOUT YOUR HOOKING UP WITH KASH THE OTHER NIGHT.

Summer associates are INTERNS. If you are going to have any sort of summer program, pay them accordingly - i.e. $15-20 an hour. Otherwise, skip the entire waste of money and instead focus on keeping associates that are already at the firm!!

Take the summer $$$ and put it into bonuses!

Will someone please help out a lingo-impaired student and explain what the heck TTT means?

Thanks.

Fortunately, I do know quite well the difference between pinot noir and pinot blanc, and can even explain the difference between pinots and zins. Maybe my legal career is on a fine footing, after all!

I lateraled into my firm, and never did the SA thing, so I guess I, too, am somewhate biased as I never got wined, dined, and paid a boatload of money for it. However, the program is worthless. The extremely little work we get out of them is Sh*t and everyone gets an offer any way. I've given up. I just don't care about it. We'd be way better off hiring laterals who have already proven that they can actually do work and skipping the summer thing altogether.

I agree with 12:18, its funny how quickly all of these associates forget that they had a sweet summer program.

That being said, I see no reason why the summer has to be the way it is. If first year associates are expected to do real work in the first 2-3 months at the firm, why can't summers? If you give summers actual training and work, they'll be that more productive when they actually arrive at the firm permanently. I'm not saying work the summers until 10pm or later every night, I'm just saying give them actual, substantive work that gets them on track to hit the ground running when they arrive. Make it a 9-6 job, or 10-7. Have a few events to get to know people and that is it!

The "amazing" summer experience doesn't help a firm's chances to keep their summers anyway. The only summers that stay are the ones that would've stayed anyway, either because they are too lazy to reinterview or know they can't go anywhere better! My 2L firm had a ridiculous summer program, and I was out of there in a heartbeat when I got something better during 3L OCI. As were most of the other legit summers.

So way to spend 150- 200K on me in one summer just to have me bounce... I probably would've been MORE likely to stay if they actually gave the summers a real experience. Would have made the firm seem more legit, instead of one just TRYING to be legit.

12:18 - You clearly have yet to understand the work allocation in firms, and who is really "important" and "busy." Yes, relationship partners are key to the firm getting (and sometimes in keeping) business, but the bulk of the work falls to seniors and mid-levels - in my experience, it is they who are truly "busy." (Okay, okay, juniors can get saddled with work and responsibility, but it's really one level up's ass on the line to make sure everything is done and perfect.)

On a lot of corporate work, if the partner were to walk out, the deal would still get done. (The client might not get out golfing, but that's another story.) If the junior walked out, he's fungible and we'd simply get a new one. When the one who's been in the trenches the whole time, truly carrying the deal forward, walks out, then you have an issue. Work a few years and you'll understand this.

The "pino noir/pino blanc" guy sucks...not as a lawyer but as a human being.

12:27 thank you. I love that movie.

1:14
Difference between pinot and zins...for chrissake, I would hope so! Try to pick two more extreme (common) varietals (I guess you could sub in shiraz for zins, but that's debatable).

I don't think that the argument that we (senior associates) "benefited" from a summer program supports the notion that it should continue so current 2Ls can make some $$ for nothing likewise. The point is that unless the summer program does a good job of showing the "interns" what the places is like to work at, and showing the firm that you have the goods to make it worth giving you an offer - then it is redundant and just a giant sap on firm $$ at a time when experienced attorneys are getting laid off because of economy restrictions. A shorter summer program with more of an emphasis on work and what things are really like makes total sense. It's not so much that more senior associates dislike having to chat with you guys, it's just sometimes difficult for a senior attorney who has been through the grinder on several occassions not to be bitter about you guys la-la-la-ing around and getting paid what really amounts to a heck of a lot of money. We don't hate you, we're just bitter because our jobs are tough, and you'd be better off if you were given an idea of what to really expect and mentally prepare yourself for it, rather than gaining 10lbs on restaurant food and drinking like you were back in college.

12:42, 11:54(1) here.

No one doubts that work that doesn't get done during the usual workday due to the need to deal with summers still needs to get done one way rather than another. The point was simply that "yes, we've all been one of those," and that dealing with summer associates who are where mid-levels were a few short years ago is part of the (high-paying biglaw) job, along with billing hours and doing one's work thoroughly and correctly. No kidding that most normal midlevels would rather be at home or out with family/spouse/significant other/friends than in the office after, say, 9 or 10 p.m. because of a summer event or the need to "flyspeck" a summer's work product. No kidding that, if that were to happen often, most normal summers (and their families/spouses/significant others/friends) would start to find it grating and tiresome.

The point is that whining by mid-levels who have forgotten that "we've all been one of those" a few years ago, before they became so busy and important, about having to take 0.4 hours out of their busy days to talk with a summer about what they do or about how summers are rabble who don't know their pinots from each other, rather than sucking it up and remembering where they were when they were summer associates, makes one a jerk. It's just a fairly straight application of the golden rule about treating others as you'd prefer to be treated oneself in like circumstances. (And, for the record, I don't like overlong extravagant business meals either, but I wasn't the one who, like the commenter at the top, whined about how he can afford to and would much prefer to take their three-Michelin star meals with his wife, rather than with 10 kids who can't tell their pinots apart. Everyone, except perhaps for people whose relationship with his/her spouse is seriously strained or breaking--which come to think of it is a fair description of a large plurality of biglaw senior associate/partner marriages at any given moment--would rather go out with his/her spouse than go out to a work function. The point is just: deal--no one is going to run benefits for the mid-level or senior associate who has to spend 0.4 hours talking about what he or she does, who has to spend 1.5 hours editing a summer associate memo that the associate could have written in 0.8 hours, or going to lunch or dinner at a Michelin-starred restaurant at someone else's expense.)

The point is not that you are not a qualified associate because you don't know the difference between pinot noir or pinot blanc. It's that if you don't, there's no point in taking you Le Bernadin for lunch.

Associates: stick to proofreading your documents and whatever other boring shit you do, and stop trying to pretend you know something about business.

Firms wine and dine SA's for a reason: if they didn't, they wouldn't get the same SA's. So you can keep saying "they'd accept the offer without all the fancy shit" but that's not the point, because they would go to another firm for the SA job in the first place. What, did you think the managers of your firm were just spending all this money because they're clueless? They're not clueless, you are. That's why they're running the firm and you're proofreading documents.

correction by 11:54(1):

"most normal summers (and their families/spouses/significant others/friends) would start to find it grating and tiresome" should read:

"most normal full-time associates (and their families/spouses/significant others/friends) would start to find it grating and tiresome"

NorTTThwesTTTern!

NorTTThwesTTTern

1:51(2): Right on. Also, why are associates pretending they're forced or even slightly pressured to go to summer events and take out summers? I've worked at two big NYC firms and being involved in the summer program has always been completely voluntary. I always enjoyed the meals and free drinks and those that preferred to ignore the program were able to do so.

For all those summers who say we should just shut up and decline to participate if we don't like it, its not quite that simple. At least at my firm, juniors and mid-levels get impressed into participating by the partners. If you try to take a stand, your rep will be that you are "not a team player." And, "citizenship" (read: participation in recruiting) is a substantal factor in determining any kind of discretionary bonus you might be up for. It will certainly haunt you when partnership decisions are made. You'll see when you get inside what I mean. And associates have such little free time, two hours a day can be alot some weeks. During business hours, I really don't mind teaching and explaining, say, the finer points of drafting a purchase and sale agreement. But be a little more sympathetic when associates don't put social hour first to spend time with other friends or family.

1:59: Exactly. Some associates were known as amenable to lunches, others weren't. Period. Editing and doing over summer/junior associate work is part of a senior lawyer's job. Somebody did it for you (whether you want to admit/realize it or not) and is probably still doing it for you.

2:00-

" And, "citizenship" (read: participation in recruiting) is a substantal factor in determining any kind of discretionary bonus you might be up for"

So, you're complaining about doing something that you eventually get paid for?

2:14, it's not the money, it's the time. You still have to work 2 hours longer, and get home to your family or meet your friends 2 hours later, to make up for lunch.

2:14, dumbass, there's no benefit to citizenship, only punishment for not being a good citizen.

2:26, that's like saying there's no benefit/reward for doing your work thoroughly and without error but only punishment for botching an assignment. There's no additional "benefit" besides getting paid salary/bonuses and getting reviews that (hopefully) reflect your performance accurately for doing what's expected of you. So what else is new?

1:59, 2:03 - Try working in a smaller office. (And smaller doesn't mean crappy--think of all of the Silicon Valley outposts of major firms, each of which has 20-60 attorneys and 5-15 summers--if you're a "normal" associate...especially in IP-land...you'll be pushed hard to take the kids out to lunch every day.)

Also, regarding the big wine thing: the joke is that he's comparing red and white. He wasn't being half as snotty as many have assumed. Making fun of someone not being able to tell the difference between right- and left-bank Bordeaux, that's getting a _bit_ less basic, but still should be ascertainble by most who've tasted wine before. Telling the difference between white and red--that's like the difference between beer and wine.

2:34 --

The guy is still an a-hole, regardless of your attempt to make him sound all wonderful and everything.

2:34: no, no, the "joke" about the red/white distinction being obvious from the French (noir/blanc) is obvious (see 11:54(1)'s comment), but the writer of the "joke" is still a horribly entitled whiner. Had the writer made fun of summer associates for not being able to distinguish between right-and-left bank Bordeaux, on the other hand, it would not simply be twice as snotty. It would mean that he/she is the most pretentious d-bag ever.

2:41, 2:44 - Yes, like you, I don't want to hang around with him. Not trying to make him sound "wonderful"--there's plenty of issues to raise in his quote, I just think that his wine comments have been overblown. That's it.

- 2:34

2:26: But isn't that the name of the game at big firms? I stopped doing that stuff once I had a child and heard about it. I decided it was worth it to me to head home and take the heat from the firm (although it really wasn't a big deal - it was a comment on my review and perhaps a slightly reduced bonus). If you want to sign on 100% to these places, you're expected to show up at summer events willingly and cheerfully. Nobody's forcing you to go, but you do "have" to go if you want to become a partner. It's yet another way of putting the job first.

Cute kitty! Thanks for the lol-cat inspired smile.

Moar lol-cats, puleazze! MOAR!

2:00 here,

I didn't mean to say that I don't participate in the program because I do. I don't go out to lunch every day. However, blowing off the summer associate events is not an option at my firm. The partners that spend the bucks on these things notice if you are absent consistently. I'm not looking for sympathy from partners because, in reality, recruiting is part of my job. And yes, I don't want screw up any discretionary bonus I might have coming, and I'm at a firm where making partner is still a very real possibility. Just simple office politics. My only point was that any summer who says that I can just elect not participate just doesn't appreciate this dynamic. I realize it is not like this at all firms.

Interesting article, and the associates quoted don't generally seem entitled/arrogant. As an oenophile, I had to comment on the wine issue but I've put it at the end of my post!

If there's a genuine advantage created by summer programs, in recruiting highly-skilled associates who through their performance will "pay back" the investment, then yes it makes sense for firms to do so. However, if another firm can forget about the summer program and simply offer a fraction of the money saved as a bonus when "poaching" talent from other firms that had summer programs (a point made in the article), and not lose out on productivity from "mandatory socializing" of associates with summers, then why should that firm have a summer program at all?

As some others have noted, the wine complaint was about pretentiousness, not itself pretentious. The point was, why spend lots of money on food and wine if the people don't appreciate it? It's like making a Kir Royale with Cristal, pretentious and a waste of good Champagne (I'm aware of the irony of using a pretentious example to point out pretension, so don't bother pointing it out). Some of what I like is horrendously expensive, some is under $10, and I drink beer while watching football. I don't like anyone who buys and drinks expensive wine simply to try and impress others (if they like it, great, but not just to be showy).

Incidentally, Portuguese Vinho Verde is quite food-friendly (acidic and very mildly effervescent, no bubbles but one can feel it) and inexpensive, if you're looking for a recommendation...

what is a gibbons?

A brutally honest partner at my firm told me when i was a summer that the most valuable part of having a summer program is being able to weed out those with serious personality or character defects. The money it costs to hire you for 8 weeks or so is worth it if it saves them 6 months of paying salary while they try to figure out if you are a psychopath/thief/sleaze. This same partner told me about "all" of the people he has fired over the years (because, he says, he is the meanest one) so I don't really see him BS-ing about this.

Another purpose for summer programs is to give the assoicates a taste of the 'good life' . If's to show them all the fancy things and say "this too could be yours!" This makes them more money-hungry, and thus they work harder and care more about their job.

4:08 - Yes, like the opportunity to discover that your SA has a cross-dressing alter ego who posts videos on YouTube and sends oddball emails to their colleagues.

I wove the pic of the widdle kitty. She looks just like my kitty did as a baby.
You cat haters should take a cue from the pro-choice motto: don't like cats? Don't get one. (but beware, you may marry a cat person. My husband's discovered, much to his dismay, that he actually likes her. She's sweet, loving, and makes sure our hardwood floors never look too clean).

I don't get some of this non-sense. A lot of biglaw NY firms have SA classes that are just too damn big. I summered at midsize (for new york) firms, made market, and did shit tons of substantive work. Hell, I've worked passed 10 on a few occasions knowing not a damn thing what I was doing, but helping out what I could.

Seriously, firms need to just organize their SA classes better. There is no reason an SA class can't be a jr. jr. associate and bill a good 300-400 hours while they are working. (over the 10-12 weeks you are there) I know I will end up about that range.

so as for you bitter jr. associates at sweatshops, CTFO. You were a summer once (generally) and you def were lost at one point too. And if your firm really makes you still bill your 60 hours a week + take out summers on 2-10 hours of events, you are either chicken shit and cant say no or honestly, well, tough.

In all honesty, as a summer, having substantive work is fun. There is only so much web surfing and pointless non-billable memos you can do before you go insane with boredom. Having deadlines and worrying about screwing up a memo a client will see...thats fun...until it burns a hole in your soul. Luckily that takes more than 12 weeks :P

5:23, I am not chicken shit. There are plenty of us on one or more of the incredible number of summer committees who, in addition to those responsibilities (generally just showing up to certain events, but also attening weekly meetings), we have to do all of the other things (lunch, formal and informal mentoring, attend other events, be up for going to impromptu Mets games....). This might not make sense to you (or still to me...), but wait until you're on the inside. Firms spend TONS of attorney time on summer programs.

And to echo what's been said a number of times, for many of us, simply shutting our doors and pretending that you're not here isn't an option--either because (i) you still stop by anyway (which I generally like and I do like to be approachable--yes, I was one of you once--but it does become time-consuming), and/or (ii) we're informed that we're "strongly encouraged to attend" damn near everything, especially if we're "normal" (to echo some of the other comments). And if you're single on top of all this (as in you don't have a spouse or kids waiting for you at home), many will show no mercy in "inviting" you to everything, because they assume you have nothing better to do, as if women are lining up to marry soft 30-year-olds with demanding careers who make 1/10th-1/5th of what a banker does at a similar level (I know, I know: job security...that's what I tell myself, too).

Anyway, wait until you're 4 or 5 years in, and the money doesn't seem like that much anymore, and you realize that you've wasted your 20's putting in all-nighters on deals that make rich people richer and you fatter and boring-er, and then post on here about how you feel.

Not everyone who comes out of law school is useless or a kid. It's not like you're having to deal with the shit in academia or that your degree is totally useless for anything but working in a grocery store. Stop whining and grow up, faggots.

@5:23 I guess you should have become a vet or a school teacher or joined the peace corps.

@ all biglaw associates

none of us want to talk to or hang out with any of you anyway. you are all a bunch of overstressed, bloated, balding losers. we only talk to you because we feel like we have to put in 'face time.' lol...and you thought you were special

7:43 - All of us, huh? Then why in the world do you want to become one of us so badly that you're willing to do it?

And, no, we don't think we're special, we know we're not, and we know you're not, but we know that you're more not that we are not--that's why this whole charade is so ridiculous.

Isn't it time for you to go home, or to change into jeans for your scavenger hunt tonight? Have fun, we'll be here resenting you (but not as much as our SOs do).

I would imagine most summers will figure it out if the associate is too busy and doesn't want people around, if they can take a hint.

When I was a summer (last summer), I mostly hung out with associates who knew they were leaving the firm real soon anyway, and so loved spending the firm's money while they can.

I honestly Cant believe some the Bulls*it i have been reading from ACTUAL ASSOCIATES in BIGLAW. I work for Am200 Minneapolis firm, and i completely disagree with what other BIGLAW associates have voiced on this blog. I was paid $2,600 per week during my summer, and participated in numerous social events, the summers reached out to me, which is why i return the favor. The SA programs across the USA are targeted at recruiting exceptional talent. How does a firm recruit such talent without any incentives? esp when 30-40 other firms in your city are searching for the same talent? MR. "i cant stand explaining the difference between noir/blanc?" seriously? 23 24 25 year olds MIGHT NOT BE wine conoseurs, esp considering all they could afford in law school was a 8$ case of Natural Ice (shitty beer). Keep in mind ...often associates who ve interacted with these SA's are integral to the end of summer review...If you have any interest in assuring that the people you are going to work with for MANY years to come are going to be beneficial to YOUR practice down the road...GO TO FU*KIN lunch and have an opinion later...dont be a huge baby and say "now i gotta work out at 9 instead of 7" you get those extra two hours for the remaining 8 months of the year...im completely blown away (as an associate, former summer, and recruiter) for my firm.....

@ 7:57 - if you're so damn busy, how do you have time to read and post to blogs?

"Then why do you want to become one of us so badly..."

You might just talk me out of it yet. Go ahead and resent away...that's about the only thing left in your life that's not broken

I almost summered for the same biglaw shop 2L summer after spending my 1L summer there as well. I joked to the recruiters that they should skip the summer nonsense and just give me a BMW convertible. They said they wish they could--it would have been way cheaper for the firm when salary plus event costs are taken into account, it would have allowed hiring of a smaller recuiring staff, and it would have permitted timekeepers to bill more hours over the summer.

Are you telling me that a firm that simply gave a permanent offer and a $35,000 bonus/gift after 2L OCI would lose recruits to firms with summer programs?? I doubt it.

Lat, you should do a survey on that option.

At my firm, the big resentment is that summers are given better/more substantive assignments while more senior guys are doing privilege logs while pretending documents don't exist. Smiling when you are too tired to stand. Or maybe that's just me. I need to get back to the large scanned pdfs now.

I like the summers themselves fine. I was one.

9:21 p.m. - We roll(ed) in different circles. Not trying to sound elitist, but remember that not all people in their early 20's are the same. Natty Ice has never passed my lips. The solid frats didn't even buy that crap.

9:23 p.m. - Look, yes, we can be busy at times, but (a) we still like to feel connected to the world (I check the news, limited sports scores, and ATL--I think I'm allowed those 15-30 minutes/day); and (b) be glad that actual attorneys are taking the time to read and post so that you get this "insider info," otherwise this would be xoxo.

12:17 a.m. - You hit the nail on the head for me (for this summer anyway).

1:15 PM; When you say we rolled in different circles, I will not doubt that (the mere fact of you needing to state that we rolled in different circles to make your point suffices)....When you say that people in their early 20's are not always the same....isnt that the point i was trying to make? Noir/Blanc?...probably a fair statement to say that not every 24 year old is going to know that Blanc = white Noir = red...which makes it equally far-fetched that an associate at lunch with a summer would complain of such a minor.....yes MINOR...detail about wine.