The Lawyer and the Bachelorette (Week 4)
Our Bachelorette-watching days are probably over. We missed last night’s episode — and one of the two lawyers was eliminated on it, dramatically reducing the show’s legal relevance.
As ATL readers go, so goes Bachelorette DeAnna Pappas. In our reader poll, almost 80 percent of you favored Jeremy over Fred. Consistent with your verdict, DeAnna eliminated Fred this week, leaving Jeremy as the only lawyer-finalist. For an episode recap, see here (a Bachelor-loving lawyer’s take) or here (the official ABC recap).
We did learn, from our readers, a little more about Fred. Apparently his full name is Fred Greif (not Fred Glick, as previously rumored). And here’s some information about his employment (which could be construed as a cautionary tale for anyone considering law school):
Fred graduated John Marshall Law School in Chicago in 2002. He never practiced or got a “legal job” post graduation.He’s a gym teacher at a Catholic school in Chicago. He teaches my friend’s kids. That’s why you can’t find anything on him.
In the recent “lawyer” vs. “attorney” discussion thread, some of you theorized that “lawyer” refers to any law school graduate, while “attorney” refers to a licensed, practicing lawyer. By this standard, even if Fred isn’t an “attorney,” he can honestly represent himself as a “lawyer” on the Bachelorette. It certainly sounds more glamorous than “gym teacher.”
As for the remaining attorney-contestant, congratulations to Jeremy Anderson. Apparently he’s now “the longest-lasting attorney on any Bachelor/Bachelorette show ever,” according to Bachelor News Update. We wish him the best of luck.
Update: If you’re a fan of lawyers on reality shows, a tipster passes this along:
There is also an attorney on this season of The Mole. I can’t remember his name, but he’s a fairly handsome black man.
Our source seems to be thinking of Clay, 32, who is indeed a rather handsome African-American gent. He’s a graduate of Howard Law School who works as a litigator in Philadelphia, focused on criminal cases.
Double D Part 4: Smooth. Rich. Succulent. [Bachelor News Update]
Recap: 06/09/2008 - Episode 404 [The Bachelor / ABC]
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Ha, John Marshall School of Law prepares its graduates for careers as gym teachers.
it's funny because it's true
"TTT" jokes in 3, 2, 1....
So did Fred even take the bar? I don't think it's okay to call yourself even a lawyer if you haven't passed the bar. If he never took/passed the bar, he could refer to himself as Fred, J.D., but nothing more.
I agree with 4:03, in that if you represent yourself to be either an attorney or lawyer, along with that goes the implication that you can, in fact, practice law. No license? No practice, no fancy name, no Esq. You are just a law school graduate. J.D. is all for you. Additionally, I have often theorized that the difference between an attorney and an attorney-at-law is that an attorney could be nonpracticing, while the at-law bit signifies that not only do you have the degree and the license, but you also actually do practice law.
JMLS: #1 in DODGEBALLLAW
Wait, so if I graduated with a biology degree and now work as a gym teacher, I can call myself a "biologist"?
If I got a certificate from a culinary school, I can call myself a "chef"?
If you're not working as a licensed, practiced lawyer, and you are not about to do so in the near future, you cannot call yourself a lawyer.
The term, "attorney" is broader than "lawyer." Anyone who holds a power of attorney, for example, is an "attorney." Thus, the term "attorney at law." The term, "lawyer," on the other hand, is limited to those who practice law.
EDNY court administrators just blocked Facebook. Totalitarian bastards.
He is licensed, so he passed the bar. He is registered out of an apartment, not a business address.
The final word on whether or not you are a lawyer comes down to this question: When you screw up, what cause of action does the plaintiff have against you?
If you have passed the bar and been admitted, it's malpractice.
If not, it's unauthorized practice of law.
Uh, 4:41, that's circular. It's malpractice BECAUSE you are a member of the bar or it's UPL BECAUSE you are not. So that's not the final word.
Extra points if anyone can name this logical fallacy.
Keep covering this as long as Jeremy is in it! I don't really watch it but like to be updated and I think your comments are funny.
A lawyer is a person who is admitted to the bar. An attorney is a lawyer who is actively representing a certain party. For instance, John is a lawyer. He is the attorney for Mr. Jones.
No wonder DeAnna dumped Fred. She wants to be married to a lawyer - or attorney, or attorney-at-law, whatever you want to call it - not a gym teacher.
actually, if the guy isn't licensed to practice law, he may be violating the law by holding himself out as a lawyer.
can anyone confirm that clay is in fact clay cauley, former DA in the Philadelphia District Attorney's office? If so, I used to work with him, and he really is an awesome, stand up guy. . . I don't know what he is doing on reality TV, though. . . I thought he had started his own shop with former DA Joe Zafrese?
see here: http://www.cazlawfirm.com/claycauley.html
"fairly handsome black man"... "rather handsome African-American gent."
I notice you didn't comment on the "nice looking white boys" or the "fine caucasians."
Methinks you "progressives" aren't as progressive as you'd like to think.
Clay is a contestant on The Mole, not The Bachelorette, and he is listed on that show as being a defense attorney who was formerly a prosecutor. He seems like a decent guy on that show.
There is actually a clip of Clay on the ABC website which shows him talking to another contestant (Nicole) explaining that he doesn't want to know if his criminal defense clients are guilty or not. http://abc.go.com/primetime/themole/index?pn=index You can find it as the "Clay Deleted Scene" in the list of clips.
As for Fred and Jeremy, Fred seems like a much nicer guy than Jeremy, who comes off as overly aggressive and creepy (IMHO, as a viewer of entirely too many reality tv shows). Maybe it's because Fred isn't practicing law. Kidding.
Jeremy is not really the "longest lasting" attorney on any season of ABC's The Bachelor or The Bachelorette, as the very first Bachelor (on the first season) was Alex Michel, who was listed on the show as being an attorney.
I don't know if Alex was actually practicing law or not, but he was the Bachelor who turned down Trista on the show's finale.
Glad we finally got some Clay coverage. Guess I will hang up the phone now and stop waiting for Ms. Young to answer... LOL
I don't know when the show was taped, but because Jeremy was just admitted in February, he may not even have been an attorney at that time.
I knew that guy seemed too genuine to be a lawyer/attorney/J.D./whatever you douchebags insist on calling him.
Now that I know he's a gym teacher the fact that he seemed like a decent human being finally makes sense.
As does why a woman like that would dump him.
As "the bachelor," Alex Michele was the picker, not the pickee. He does not count as the "longest lasting" attorney on the show because by, default, he had to be. Jeremy is the longest-lasting attorney contestant.
Alex Michel doesn't hold a law degree. Harvard, A.B. 1992, Stanford, M.B.A. 1998. No law degree. He's not a lawyer, an attorney, or even a distinguished gentleman of laws.
21 - The key word is "contestant." The one who picks is not a contestant.