'We're Women ... We Get It.'
ABA Journal is reporting on the gender-charged ads recently rolled out by the all-female firm, Schroder Joseph & Associates LLP. The Buffalo, N.Y.-based boutique firm is now knee-deep in a gender stereotype controversy. Their response is of the "Can't you take a joke?" variety:
The "Ever Argue With a Woman?" ad is not intended to take jabs at men, [name partner Ginger] Schroder says. Critics are "taking themselves way too seriously. It was meant to be fun and thought-provoking; it's not meant to engender national debate on gender stereotypes."The ads were created by account executive Jennifer Dowdell of Business First magazine to aid the law firm's branding effort. All use the same color background and the same photos of those who work at the firm: three partners, one associate and one of counsel, and three paralegals. Men have worked at the firm as law clerks, but so far none who have been offered jobs there has accepted.
The firm has so far received positive feedback from clients and others who think the ads are funny, Schroder says.
The first ad in the series reads: "Labor Pains? Talk to us. (We're women ... We get it.)" A second ad reads: "Sexual Harassment, Performance Issues, Discrimination, Dismissals and Disputes ... (All in a day's work for us.)"
A new ad scheduled to run reads: "Advice, Protection, Guidance and Support ... When it comes to our clients, let's just say our maternal instincts take over."
Schroder says the ads are proof that lawyers can laugh at themselves. "A lot of people say lawyers don't have a sense of humor," she says. "I think that's wrong."
If you don't think it's funny, you don't have a sense of humor. Good reasoning.
We get most of the female stereotypes the firm employs, but "performance issues" may be more appropriate for the ad campaign of an all-male firm.
Firm's 'Ever Argue With a Woman?' Ad Provokes Debate on Stereotypes [ABA Journal]
All-female Buffalo law firm accentuates the feminine in its ads [Buffalo News]
(90) Comments
Countdown to ironic comments about all-male firms in 3...2...
With apologies to Ron Burgundy:
Brick: "I heard their periods attract bears."
Champ: "Did you hear that??? You're putting us all in danger !!!!"
2:54--You didn't see the one that Lat included in the story?
Buffalo rocks.
I love women
2:55: Actually, no, (not being sarcastic). Where is it??
2:55 - The "ironic" comments that 2:54(1) was mostly likely referring to are those which ask us to consider the outrage if an all-male firm started advertising itself as such.
Adline for an all-male firm:
Ever tried to lift fifty pound boxes of deposition documents?
Ummm...doesn't this violate ethics rules of comparing yourself to other law firms?
yes, I am studying for the bar. Kill me now.
2:58,
Spot on.
-2:54(1)
2:56,
After spending the last 5 years of my life here, I am prepared to disagree with you. Vehemently.
Umm, Lat, women can have "performance" issues too.
Is that the home where the buffalo roam!
3:11: You must live in Amherst, Clarence, or some cheeseball suburb.
Has anyone really checked out their website - comments in 3, 2, 1 ...
Nice website. That would suck to have your profile listed below that of the firm cat...
3:19 -
Holy shit! That website is the funniest thing I have ever seen.
"Orion is a 'firm cat' who has taken-up permanent residence at our offices. Don't be surprised if you see him lurking about (or jumping on your lap) when you come to our offices!"
Want to be represented by a brood of cat ladies? Give us a call!
Buffalo most commonly refers to:
* Various wild mammals of the Bovinae subfamily (bovines)
Without genetic testing, I don't beleive they are all women.
Is Buffalo famous for its chicken wings or its bat wings?
What is their logo supposed to be?
great firm, great city, great ad. It got us all talking, didn't it?
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
3:25 - exacltly. LAT - you need to go interview the cat on that one.
3:19,
No, I just can't afford to live in the Delaware/Elmwood area. And even that's not so great. I grew up in Albany, for Pete's sake -- Buffalo, sadly, is not much of an improvement.
Would I get in trouble if i entered the firm singing the pussy cat song?
Buffalo faces issues with vacant and abandoned houses, as the city ranks second only to St. Louis on the list of American cities with the most vacant properties per capita.
I personally enjoy the Glamour shot photos
3:35 - yes, more cankles please.
http://www.sjalegal.com/main.asp?id=29
How seductive!
3:34. That is true. In other words, now is the time to buy.
it has a cat. I will not visit. Cats=satan.
And if the cat does jump on my lap if I were to visit---can I sue if I'm allergic? or can I sue for assault anyway? Don't these people want a professional office?
Oh wait, according to these ads, they don't
3:36 - She's only got a BA, so I guess they really are pushing the envelope here.
Did kozinksi clerk here or something ....
go to next post
TTTTTTTTTampon!
pussy rocks. every law firm should have some (or is it one?).
and the seductive looking legal assistant with the surname of Hastie - http://www.sjalegal.com/main.asp?id=29 - you can't make this s*** up.
pussy rocks. every law firm should have some (or is it one?).
and the seductive looking legal assistant with the surname of Hastie - http://www.sjalegal.com/main.asp?id=29 - you can't make this s*** up.
Further proof that few women are actually funny.
when's the first kegger
To the few Buffalo supporters: Give up, it sucks. I'm from there and would love to return, in theory, but making 1/4 of what I'm making now (as a mid-level) isn't happening. (And the work isn't exactly front-page-WSJ stuff, to put it politely. It's worse than you'd even expect.)
And forget the lame cost of living arguments--those only really apply to NY and SF, and, you know, those people get to live in NY or SF instead of chasing the same suburban pigs on Chippewa or Elmwood every weekend.
Oh, and all of those neighborhoods "turning the corner" - people have been saying that for 30 years. Hasn't happened, won't happen, no money to make it happen.
No thanks.
(But: Go Bills! Go Sabres!)
go 4:33 - people have been saying the same thing about Cleveland for decades as well.
One advantage of Buffalo is that there aren't a lot of assholes from NY or SF there. Of course, there are the Long Island and Westchester douchebags/JAPs who move to Amherst for four years at SUNY Buffalo, and spend their entire time bitching about the bagels and chinese food. But they move back near Mommy and Daddy when they graduate and the city is all the better for it.
4:47 - Dude, those people take over the entire east coast for college - from Bowdoin down to Emory and Miami. Buffalo isn't special in that regard. I don't like them, either, but that's no reason to hole up in Buffalo for life, starting at $65k for garbage work, maybe making 2-3x that as a partner some day (and don't believe the hype, that's what they make, do some back-of-the-napkin math if you need to).
One of the major problems with Buffalo is that many people leave - AND then don't come back. It's so insular there, and ends up being full of people who are afraid of "assholes from NY or SF" (and are there really that many assholes from SF?).
Move somewhere else for a few years, and if you decide that Buffalo is for you, then move back. Nothing wrong with that.
It must suck for the three ladies who are listed BELOW the cat on the firm's site.
Anyone want to bet that Kara and Crystal are NOT related?
Seriously - WTF is that logo all about!
To those who think practicing law outside of NY is Garbage Work: you're an asshole. My dad has been a lawyer in Buffalo for 30 years doing everything from insurance defense to $MM corporate representation. I have no doubt he's a better lawyer than anyone who posts to this board --- even if your second year salaries are similar to what he made twenty years out. Fuck off you paper pusher wannabe asshats.
They're employment lawyers, so they have to know this is a Title VII suit waiting to happen.
5:32 - I make more than your dad at Hodgson/Philips/Jaeckle, and my dad's son knows to use consistant subjects throughout a sentence. (Honestly, our dads probably know each other...it's a small world back home.)
Anyway, your dad must be doing lots of public company work in Buffalo, hmm? Lots of private equity work, too, right? Or is he too busy writing his own briefs while being Allstate's slip-and-fall bitch?
There are good things about Buffalo that I miss, but don't start thinking that the legal work there is good. Sure, there are good lawyers, especially some of the older people, and your dad may very well be one of them, but the quality of the work sucks (it's not the lawyers' fault, it's that nothing happens in Buffalo).
wow seems like someone has a serious case of "sand-in-the-box" ^
Imagine, a lawyer writing his own briefs.
5:43--
You're clearly not an employment lawyer. That firm doesn't employ enough people to raise Title VII liability.
6:00 - I think he was referring to a 30-year person writing his own ID breifs, which, yes, is low-level work.
5:32--Why so bitter? Your Dad may be a great lawyer but the quality of work in Buffalo leaves a lot to be desired.
6:05: Probably depends on the issue, wouldn't you say? Surprisingly, some insurance policies cover things other than slips-and-falls.
6:07 - You're absolutely right, but I'm playing the odds.
"and are there really that many assholes from SF?"
Yes, but they fancy themselves easy-going, which makes it even worse.
way more people on here who care about buffalo than i would have guessed...
I'm playing the odds that 7/8 of the people that post to this board are first, second, or third year associates who have never done any significant legal work whatsoever. I'm also playing the odds that 7/8 of those 7/8 will leave the big firm job they currently boast about before their fifth year practicing. At that time, they will either (A) take a job with a "TTT" firm that they currently malign; (B) lateral to another BigLaw firm without any clients and therefore, no real chance of making equity partner; or (C) drop out of the profession altogether.
To the remaining small fraction who go on to long-tenured careers in BigLaw. Enjoy your life. You've lived the dream: turning into the boss you despise the most right now.
6:20 - True on a few points, but (A) I'm sorry that you're at a firm that doesn't give juniors any responsibility and/or that you've proven that you can't handle it, and (B) the work in Buffalo still sucks.
6:23: True on no points.
XOXO,
6:20
6:20/6:27 - What fascinating work are you doing in Buffalo? Is Blackstone tapping Damon? Some groundbreaking derivatives work for M&T?
If you're happy where you are, then good for you, but you can't seriously think that you have great opportunities for work.
You could always just rub it in my face that you still get to go to Sabres games and eat at La Nova.
I go home now. Bye.
Kash is a sexist.
"We get most of the female stereotypes the firm employs, but "performance issues" may be more appropriate for the ad campaign of an all-male firm."
6:34 - You mistyped. It's "Kash is a sexy."
6:32:
I am happy where I am. I seriously think I have great opportunities for work. The fact that you don't know anything about what I do, but yet assume that your work is somehow superior to mine simply by virtue of where you think I live, says a lot more about you than it does about me. Like, for example, that you're a pretentious snob. Or perhaps just another one of many fungible BigLaws pricks whose minimal accomplishments are only worth discussing because they're performed (albeit unknowingly) for a client with a recognizable name.
Go return your videotapes.
6:20
6:03: Fair enough, but they'd better hope they don't expand to TItle VII size, or they're going to have a lot of bad documents to explain.
Also, if I was hit with a hostile workplace claim, I think the last place I would want to turn would be a firm with a marketing campaign that blatantly plays off of gender sterotypes (yes, even if it's all a joke).
--5:43
6:40 - There's nothing groundbreaking happening in Buffalo (legal or otherwise). Your comments reflect the small-world thinking that plagues that city: Glad that you're happy there, but realize why some of us wouldn't be. When you go to NY/DC/LA/SF/Chi, it's not just the name of the clients that change or the dollar amounts, but often the sophistication of the clients and their problems (granted, not all the time, but when a client is contemplating a major transaction or cutting-edge securities work, the client is likely not looking to hire a Buffalo firm as lead counsel).
5:43/6:46--
I think that firm's ad approach is beyond stupid for many reasons, including the discrimination-case-waiting-to-happen aspect (I'll bet there's a state anti-discrimination law that could apply even if Title VII doesn't), not to mention the "this is the goal of feminism?" aspect.
And you're right about the representation issue. How does a male juror look at an attorney from a firm like this who is representing a female on a sexual harassment claim? Do you want to hire a firm that is perceived to be sexist to represent you in such a case?
There are an infinite number of stupid things attorneys could do for an ad campaign for which they could try to deflect criticism by saying it's just meant to be funny. Stupid and funny aren't mutually exclusive.
--6:03
"Kash is a sexist."
Exactly why she fits in so well in these parts.
7:14 - they do defense work.
How disappointing. They have an all-woman firm and instead of using what should be a powerful and unique position in the legal industry, they are resorting to tired old stereotypes and setting feminism back a couple decades. Well done, Schroder Joseph. Now I get to look forward to even more comments from male attorneys about how "scary" we women attorneys are, what with our shrill vaginas and strident boobage.
Jesus those girls are ugly--damn right I'd never want to agrue with them. I'd get sick just looking at them.
6:03/7:14:
I couldn't agree more.
7:35: That was my point. As an employer facing a discrimination claim (and the possible negative publicity that goes with it) why on earth would you hire a firm with this baggage? The last thing a company in that situation wants its lawyer telling anyone, anywhere, about anything remotely sexist/racist/etc. is "take a joke."
Unprofessional, and shows a lack of judgment/taste.
--4:43/6:46
2:55, 3:17, 3:30 - This post is KASH, not LAT. (Seems that KASH does a lot of the feminism-related posts.)
There is more detail in the ABA Journal piece, like this:
"Name partner Ginger Schroder tells ABAJournal.com that the firm hopes to generate attention with its humorous ads. 'They're meant to create buzz about our practice,' she says."
I guess it worked.
http://abajournal.com/news/law_firm_ads_catchy_headline_provokes_debate_on_stereotypes/
when is the heifer stroll.
6:20: And those who choose option A will be devastated to discover that their new colleagues won't give a crap where they went to law school or how they did there.
10:11 a.m. - Are you sure about that? From my experience in third-tier-type cities, if you didn't go to the local law school, you're a total stud. You can have some networking issues when seemingly 80% of the big firm lawyers there went to the same school, but there's generally a degree of wow-factor and novelty surrounding the Cornell grads (who for whatever reason end up) in Buffalo, for example.
I lived in Buffalo for a year. It is an absolute dump with horrible weather and extremely depressing. Funny thing is all Buffalo folk think it is the greatest place on earth....but most have never been outside the rust belt.
Only good thing is the wings at the Anchor Bar.
You know a city is in trouble when the only commercials on TV are by PI frms and Fucillo Chevrolet...HUGE!!!
Anchor Bar may have a legitimate claim to the origin of the chicken wing, but they suck. Duff's is FAR superior.
I agree with 2:13.
12:34 - amen to first para (as someone mentioned last night); second is debatable.
5:32 - Really? Your argument is "my daddy is a better lawyer than you" Really?
That is over the top stupid.
Buffalo's Tim Russert is dead.
He graduated from Cleveland State University's law school. Looks like that really held him back in life.
Buffalo actually has the best weather of any city in the northeast (between April and November)
4:57, having spent the first 18 years of my life there (and having heard that line probably 1000 times), I didn't find the summer weather to be reliably different from the rest of upstate NY. It's humid as hell and just a _little_ too hot most days during the summer, like the rest of the NE. (And is the April-November weather really any different from Rochester, Erie, or Cleveland?)
Buffalo is awesome. I live in DC now, but I couldn't have picked a better city to grow up in. People from Buffalo have more hometown pride than people from most other cities, at least from what I've seen. I loved growing up in a blue-collar city and will seriously consider moving back when I raise a family of my own.
Go Sabres! Go Bills!
I agree completely. The best thing about Buffalo is that people there grow up with a curiosity about other places, and most leave for a little while (whether for school, work, or other reasons) and check out a different spot. But many return in their mid-30s and 40s because it's a great place to live and raise a family.
How great to see that every time someone commented on Tim Russert's genuine, down-to-earth, and "everyman" nature, they attributed it to the fact that he was from Buffalo. Can you imagine anyone saying the same thing about someone from Westchester County? Or San Francisco?
As for no interesting work in Buffalo, please. Get over yourselves. This even popped up today: (http://www.buffalonews.com/258/story/371696.html) Is it earth-shattering? Maybe not. But most of the lawyers I know in Buffalo like their jobs. Unlike the comma jockeys that work 24/7 in NYC...